Make Interface Great Again! For young people!

As an undercover FBI agent, I would like to propose the following operation plans to prevent BiaB from becoming a victim of the hate crime committed by musicians of the younger generation.

Operation #1 - Codename Ueberschall
In Style Picker, RealTracker Picker, RealDrum Picker, introduce the view of subcategories, like Ueberschall Elastik. Instead of giving people 3000 RealTracks to choose from, give them 429 RealTrack sets, under each set, there are different genres, under each genres, there are different intruments, etc, and the selection process goes from left to right. Of course the old filter system is still gonna work.

Operation #2 - Codename Antares
In Antares AutoTune, there are two tabs on the top, Auto Mode and Graph Mode. User first select a mode, then interface changes to that mode. Instead of jamming 50 buttons into one dialogue box, maybe BiaB should split them into two or three tabs? For example, in Melodist, "Generate Melody Only" in one tab, "Generate Entire Song with Chords" in another tab, with respective & relevant buttons and commands.

Operation #3 - Codename iZotope
For complicated tasks, such as ACW, Molodist, Soloist, introduce step/chain processing interface, like iZotope Ozone/Nectar. A few steps in the order, displayed on the top of screen, under each step, there are only a few commands, so user can focus on one step, get it done, and move to the next step.

Operation #4 - Codename Ujam
Introduce modern graphic to the interface, like any Ujam product. Important action buttons, big with color, round shape, in the middle of screen. Unimportant option buttons, small, square shape, on the side, not to distract.

Operation #5 - Codename Toontrack
Make audio file and MIDI file easy to drag & drop into BiaB, like Toontrack EZdrummer. User can drag a .wav file or .mid file like a song block, to any bar any beat in BiaB, and perfectly aligned to the quantization grid, then can easily copy, move, duplicate the block to other desired positions of the song.

Operation #6 - Codename Native Instruments
Using BiaB should be fun and smart, not tedious and complicated. If BiaB could be as intelligent as Native Instruments Kontakt, with self-explanatory graphic interface, self-explanatory buttons and commands, self-explanatory functionalities and features, without the need of watching a tutorial video.

Operation #7 - Codename Image-Line
"You don't have to teach users how to use all your features, you just need to teach them how to use a few important ones to get things done."
Image-Line FL Studio has one of the most successful YouTube channels in the production community. Why? Because they have many short workflow videos, creating a complete song from scratch, in less than 30 minutes. PG Music should do the same, make more Boot Camp / Workflow type of videos, with real life examples, and a unique YouTube thumbnail (not the generic yellow black on the left, white on the right ones), so viewers can search YouTube and quickly find these special videos.

Conclusion
Millennials and Gen Z musicians love fancy stuff, such as an iPhone, a Gucci handbag, Louis Vuitton sunglasses, Yeezy sneakers, and TikTok.

BiaB already has the top-of-the-line sample library. Imagining if BiaB could consider investing a little money into revolutionize its interface and graphics, advertising itself as the Tesla for futuristic musicians. Guess the young people would desperately rush in to get a proudly BiaB of their own.

Did you ever stop to think.......what is unimportant to one is very important to another? Who makes the call?

Mike

+1
I have been at this too long to try and get all of the above.
I went looking for knowledgeable users in other forums to come here and get Biab into the modern age. I tried to get EvilDragon who is in lots of other forums and is very knowledgeable but he said he was too busy with other beta testing.
I think MusicVillain is the next best thing to EvilDragon. He must be sent here for that reason

Music Villain,

Thanks. There’s a lot of great suggestions in there. And a nice presentation. Lots of food for thought, and hopefully others will add to the discussion.

I'm eager to hear experts' opinions on the most efficient workflow with BiaB.

Vector vs Scalar
The most important part of core technology in BiaB is the vector generation. Vectors are location addresses pointing to the source material (RealTracks & RealDrums), aka the green colored style tracks. Because each vector track is just a collection of link addresses, it is light-weighted, fast processing, and can be regenerated easily, most ideally to work with.

On the other side, once BiaB is rendered and exported as an audio file, such as WAV, WMA, MP3, it becomes a scalar track, which can not be relinked to the source material or regenerated anymore.

BiaB VST DAW Plugin
It's just a lite version of BiaB with less features. When you drag tracks from the plugin to the DAW, all tracks become scalar tracks (rendered audio tracks). BBPlugin doesn't seem to offer much of value.

RealBand
RealBand is supposed to be the best DAW to work with BiaB, and I don't know why there are not many people using it. It's true while compare to BiaB, RealBand is lack of features. But within RealBand, without the need of BBPlugin, RealBand itself can read chord sheet, generate vector tracks, of which can be regenerated as wish. Why RealBand hasn't become the most popular DAW in the BiaB community?

Cockos Reaper
Why Reaper seems to be the most popular DAW in the BiaB community? Does it have any advantages over other DAWs such as Ableton, Cubase, Studio One, etc?

BiaB Track Injector
It is a genius idea to utilize the vector technology of BiaB. But it's currently in beta and there're bugs and may not work for all users.

BiaB vs RealBand
Since RealBand can do exactly what BiaB is doing, generate vector tracks from a built-in chord sheet, plus RealBand has the visual sequencer view like a DAW, why does everyone seem to work with BiaB and export to DAW, completely skip and ignore the existence of RealBand?

* Vector = Address Data File, Contains Data Linking/Pointing to Source Soundbank
* Scalar = Rendered Audio File

RealDrums and RealTracks are the most important BiaB sound sources because they offer the realistic sound users overwhelmingly prefer. The technology implementation, you name part of it vector generation, is just one reason those sources are preferred. Software algorithms and source material are two other reasons.

This statement overlooks the other sound sources available to BiaB users. Midi patterns present in most styles have been available since the program's inception. MidiSuperTracks combine human midi recordings with high quality patches. Artist Performance Tracks (APT) provide a path for users to consolidate audio or import song specific performances. UserTracks allow users to build their own audio library.

Some sound sources, specifically APT and UserTracks, are overlooked and underutilized gems. But at the same time that means even in it's present state there is plenty of resources for users to explore.

You and I seem to agree the longer you stay in Band-in-a-Box the more you can utilize it's resources. The instant you render and create a scalar track to move out of Band-in-a-Box you lose ALL the unique resources the program offers. If you want to change anything you can always go back but that's starting over and losing all your preceding work.

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Agree. I believe the main reason it exists is to introduce traditional DAW users to Band-in-a-Box. If it's Saturday night and the guitar player has left the studio a producer can still create a backing track. It is also useful to video studios.

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Short history lesson. PowerTracks was created by an independent developer and distributed by PG Music. The core of PowerTracks was used to create RealBand. RealBand does not support all the features available in a song file created in BiaB. Why move a song file from BiaB to RB if all the stuff in the song file doesn't translate?

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Reaper may or may not be the most popular DAW but it's members within this forum are certainly the most vocal about their DAW. Most forum users do not discuss their DAW by name. Most of those that do mention their DAW by name seem to use Reaper. One reason is because Reaper supports scripting that can customize how it looks. Scripting also allows Reaper to support BiaB influenced features that it otherwise can not support.

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This is a feature developed by forum user Musocity using a Reaper script. You should discuss any issues or enhancements with Musocity.

Over the years Musocity, previously known as SolidRock or Pipeline, has presented feature ideas in the forum. It's possible some of those ideas inspired PG Music to develop or enhance BiaB features.

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Band-in-a-Box was already a mature product when RealBand was introduced as a free companion product for Window users. It's possible long time BiaB users developed a workflow that included a DAW before RealBand was available.

RealBand and it's parent product, PowerTracks, is not available to Mac users so a huge chunk of the BiaB audience does not have access to RealBand.

MV.
re..REALBAND VS BIAB.

its not a question of one versus tother imho.
its useing the best of each imho.

(i guess i have to defend rb a tad…lol. even tho' i love reaper and was an early adopter at v 0.99 and with others used to bug the reaps dev with feature ideas.)

if one notices in my sig …the 3 music software i use ??
includes realband.
as ive said before rb has some nifty unique features IF ONE IS A SEEKER…..and if one…

1.. spends a decent time with rb to really delve into its plethora of features.its a massive feature list.
2.. really developes one own work methods with rb.

i know no daw on the market that has its set of features…which is why i'm sooo avid that just with a few added features it would sweep all contenders away.
and i dont want to see rb go away.

eg notice MCity's brilliant graphics in this thread of what could be with rb with just some extra dev work.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=754298#Post754298

look at the great MCity graphics for bb and rb that is in the above thread/discussion. ie above my current post.

ive explained some of rb's features in the past and am too tired to repeat same over and over …lol.

all i would suggest is like i and various other pg users have found out…dont dismiss rb out of hand.

just 'dig'...theres nice rb nuggets in 'them thar hills'.
take some time with reading the plethora of features laid out in the rb manual and watch the vids on you tube etc.

just an idea. mix a bb song to bed ruff guide stereo... THEN import into rb the stereo guide mix and then go bonkers on testing//genning rd's//rt's//midi//vi's//loops
and so on.

its sorta like we used to do in commercial studios...give em' a rough song guide then use for overdubs real session musicians...cept in this case rb has its own session musicians... plus more traks than old 24 trak 2 inch tape machines.

WHATS NOT TO LIKE ABOUT THAT FOR FREE ??

(note i started on powertraks yonks ago which saved me a bundle over paying several 'undred bucks for each 2 inch tape reel. powertraks is another steal imho. for those just doing regular mtr stuff.)

happiness.

om

"why does everyone seem to work with BiaB and export to DAW, completely skip and ignore the existence of RealBand?"

Because most DAWs can handle big audio / MIDI projects better.

With all arguments "for" RB I have seen, most "missing" things can be done in BIAB these days, as a lot of features were added in the past 3 years. As one prominent user said a few years back: Real Band should be kept "working" as a legacy product, focusing on BIAB and Plugin. I agree with that statement 100%.

MusicVillain,
I am curious, if you had a chance to change only one item in BIAB. What would that be in your opinion, to make most impact for the better?

The BiaB Track Injector is just waiting for PG to get BiaB to write a txt file BBoutput.txt to bb\Data instead of having to hack into menus to get the data txt (this txt will also allow the BBPlugin to import the same track sections in the BiaB project).
This will then be easy to use by running one script that will read the track data for all current tracks in BiaB then import those into Reaper instantly, or be able to select the track/s or track section to update to any fractional/decimal tempo map.
A total no brainer, giving total control to the users, way ahead of current way.

BBlugin uses bbw4 in the background to render tracks to lots of wav files that the Plugin reads. Needs upgrading to play the track section direct from the source files, giving instant generate/play instead of having to WAIT (the reason why users now use BiaB instead).

RealBand uses bbw2 in the background to render tracks to lots of wav files that RealBand will read. Also needs upgrading to play the track section direct from the source files, giving instant generate/play instead of having to WAIT (the reason why users now use BiaB instead).

EDIT: This is one you can try now that works with the BBPlugin without any mods
Inject BBPlugin Tracks into REAPER (Simple Script)

This is injecting a multistyle from Biab of current tracks from track data txt.

This would be absolutely brilliant.

For me Band in a Box serves two different purposes:

a) Developing a song from scratch, having only some idea of a melody in mind. The standalone version helps a lot to easily and quickly create some result, to experiment with different styles and instruments, I otherwise would not have at hand. The possibilities of the standalone version to tweak and to experiment with different styles are absolutely great and I don't want to miss it.

b) To add further instrumental tracks to songs I have already recorded in my DAW. Here the plugin comes into play. It is a reasonable tool either to take over what I have created with the standalone version beforehand or to make some further refinements before taking over any instrumental tracks to my DAW. The more simple and quickly this can be achieved, the better. I don't need fancy functionality for this. A good basic audio or midi track will do the job.

I also wonder why tracks have to be re-generated by the plugin first, instead of using what has already been created by the standalone version. Especially as the outcome differs. This makes no sense to me. But for sure, I will stay with my DAW for the final mixing and mastering. Often enough I just take over the midi file from BiaB and replace the instrument by some other sound library in my DAW.

To sum it up: Any way to select or take over tracks or only parts of of a song to any DAW, without additional hustle, would be absolutely appreciated by me. All thumbs up for the injector idea.

@Jim Fogle


This! Should become a music production motto, printed in the welcome/splash screen, every time when BiaB is launched. So every user can see it!


To be honest, I have always been confused with Artist Performance Tracks (APT) and Songs Lessons Pak (SLP). What exactly does each of them offer? Are they simply some pre-made SGUs/MGUs, aka pre-made styles with chords already entered? Do they have same contents overlapping each other?

I understand that SLP is included in Ultra+ but not Ultra version, in other words, SLP is basically the "+". On the other hand, APT is included in both Ultra and Ultra+ version, usually from the 49 Pak and Bonus Pak. The question is, what are they and how do I use them?

Biggest Concern
In Windows, installing the same program/content to the same location will result in two possibilities:

(1) Same folders/files were replaced/overwritten, which is the most ideal.
(2) A new folder/file is created by the system, making a mess. For example, previously a file exists called "MyFile", when install again, system created a new file in the same folder called "MyFile (1)", having duplicate files in the same folder.

BiaB offers many different Add-ons and Paks, and many of them have overlapping songs/styles/tracks/contents. My biggest concern is, when install all these different Paks to the same C:\bb folder, is system going to generate duplicate files when overlapping contents are installed?

@Rustyspoon#


This a tough question, cause I have over thirty items want to be changed. Just to pick that one most important item to change, mine would be:

Multi Tracks View & Edit in the Audio Edit Window

I do tons and tons of Volume Automation in BiaB, pretty much in every four bars, I would turn on/off/hold an instrument, in order to make the song built up in a sophisticated manner. However, currently in the Audio Edit (Waveform) window, you can only view/edit one track at a time. If you want to view/edit a different track, you have to click the mixer channel to switch.

Currently I work with BiaB on two monitors. The left screen is the main BiaB interface with chord sheet and mixer. On the right screen, I opened a floating Audio Edit (Waveform) window, to do the volume automation, but I can only see one track at a time, and work with one track at a time.

Would be holy smoke, if I could see/zoom/edit several tracks in the Audio Edit window at the same time, just like working in a DAW.

@Jim Fogle
@justanoldmuso
@Rustyspoon#
@musocity

It seems PG Music doesn't even bother making tutorial videos for RealBand. The latest video about RealBand I can find on YouTube is dated in 2019.

I would like to hear your opinions on RealBand from a musical perspective, not a technical perspective. So, if I ask you to create two songs from scratch, without using any DAW. Two same songs, but one is using BiaB 2023 only, the other one is using RB 2023 only (without BBPlugin).

Are you able to tell, off the top of your head, the top 10 life or death things/features/functionalities, of which can be easily done in BiaB 2023, but can not be done in RB 2023?

I will look into these things in details, so I can understand the true limitations of RB, and pull the trigger.

@MusicVillain
Before I answer, I would like to apologize to any who might feel different. This is only my opinion.
I tried investing time in RB several times in the past 5 years. Especially gave it a good shot when Cakewalk went belly up as I was trying to find a single DAW that I could do most that I want and the way that I want. What can I say.... To me, RB is ages behind every single DAW on the market in almost every single aspect except for working with proprietary content. From GUI to workflow. Especially given known inconsistencies and limitation of transferring PGmusic projects between the two. To me RB is a big NO NO. Is it a "tool" - yes it is. So is manual hand driven drill. Is it a tool of choice? Absolutely not. I sincerely hope that certain features of RB are transferred to BIAB that "people can't live without" and RB would just be kept as a working legacy product, focusing on BIAB, Plugin and content.

Having said this, enjoy essays of die-hard fans that will follow

Dear Peter,

For the moment I would be happy, if the VST3 plugin would work correctly. With all those discussions about injectors and the defects of the plugin, another idea came to my mind:

The BiaB standalone application already has some DAW mode onboard. Why not using the Biab plugin just as a bridge to the main BiaB application?

As long as the plugin would be able to start/stop BiaB from the DAW, to write the DAW tempo changes to the BiaB chord sheet and to provide some audio signal back to the DAW, everything else should be manageable somehow with little manual effort.

A full ARA2 implementation like Melodyne Studio plugin has, would likely be the perfect solution. But the above workaround could already be a big step forward. At the moment I am struggling more with deficits and defects of the plugin than using it.

I already start to regret the switch from the 2022 to the 2023 version. Maybe there was less functionality, but at least it was stable.

I don't wanna miss BiaB, but at the moment it is getting a bit tough.

Cheers
Roland

Band in a Box is being made into a DAW because everyone likes how fast it generates and can't change things easily once in the DAW. It could play files direct same as a DAW but because PG worry about old users with old computers it generates into RAM. Maybe they have been losing old Win users and more younger Mac users are coming with faster hardware ?
The BBPlugin/BBplugin Standalone is too slow.
RealBand is too old and too slow, Tried here but but all issues forced Track Injector to come about.
The ideal would be the BBPlugin/BBPlugin Standalone have the generate code with in it and play back the source files direct and instantly to allow users to be in the DAW of choice and do it all in there with the Plugin being able to have decimal tempo maps, more than 255 bars, more time signatures that will match the existing tracks in the DAW. So to give what Track Injector gives but in any DAW.

Right now so many users could be using it with their copy of Reaper and get any track/s or sections instantly if PG give the current track data txt file in bb\Data (same as the BBPlugin gives) that Reaper will read and get the track sections instantly having way more control and adjustment of riffs or drum sections than you can do with a consolidated wav file. I'll say it again, this is way ahead of current ways of doing things giving the user full control. This works even better using the RewireVST.
I asked for a sync VST for BiaB to sync it with any DAW, if the DAW has a decimal tempo map Biab could just adjust the playback rate to sync and then files exported will have Acid info so they will fit the DAW decimal tempo map.

So I have tried really really hard for a really long time to get all these issues fixed, implemented and modernized.
They may listen to you because I'm bitter and worn out from being at it for too long so all my nagging is just ignored now.

MV.

instead of posting to you in 2 threads…i'll comment further in this one as follows….

i dont think one can say bb versus realband (rb)...for example on the speedway song i just put up on scloud….

..the idea started out as a rough beds guide idea in bb…then..

..i tested a bunch of pg content in rb using the guide.
(on a serious song like this one thats how rb found for me the lead break i like out of thousands ie lots more traks in rb to try things and i can see lotsa waveforms at a glance.)

..then i transferred some traks to reaps for some fancy schmancy deep editing//manipulation.

..then i transferred to reaps the car fx sounds cos i wanted a certain pan effect.

..after more work//manipulation in bb n ' rb n' reaps...i made final tests n' mp3 using rb.

in summary its all a question imho of using the features in each software as to ones work methods.

as to rb specifically all i can say is fairly that it appeals to some but not others.
i like it cos i can see all trak waveforms n' can gen on more traks than in bb. for example in rb i might gen n' save many pg content traks before culling the herd down to my final choices of rd'd//rt's//loops//whatever etc etc. whereas in bb i have fewer traks.

i think its important at this point that you dont listen to any of us , and just go thru' all the rb manual//help//vids etc etc and see if its for you cos what is groovy for me might not be for you.

(BIG NOTE >> REALLY EXPLORE THE RB LOOOONG MENU BY RIGHT CLIKING OVER A RB TRAK..cos lots of power in that menu.)

ps i KNOW some folks might feel i'm biased to rb...but i'm really not. its just it does some nice things i like.

you might want to look at this thread where MCity posts
wonderfull graphics of firstly future biab wishes and then for rb the same. read the whole shebang and our idea exchanges. he is fab at graphics and as i say in my last post if pg implemented these wishes rb wouold be the daw leader over other daws.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=752469#Post752469

have loads of enjoyment creating songs…whatever you use.

om

@Roland S


Can you be a bit more specific on what stabilities / performance issues you had experienced with 2023 compare to 2022?

I am about to help some colleagues to update their BiaB from 2022 to 2023, in the upcoming weeks.

And now I'm hesitating.

I really wonder how many people actually have old versions of BiaB on old computers; How good PGM's knowledge is of the demographics of users and their PCs.

I think I originally bought BiaB in 2013(?) but concluded then that the interface was not really compatible with the notepad PC on which I was trying to run it (~11" diagonal wide-screen). I abandoned BiaB and didn't try again until 2020(?). That suggests that for 7 years I was an 'old user who hadn't updated'. Various friends similarly.

What definitely is important/useful is that .SGU files that were copied to me by band members are still usable quite a few years later ... but most of the time I open the old file, adjust it to what I'd like with the current version of BiaB and save a copy in my personal songs folders. I think similar is also important for people like Bob Norton, who produce after-market add-ons.

But I can't help feeling that people on very old hardware are probably few and far between and if they haven't updated recently, quite probably never will.

I also can't help feeling that the combination of historic compatibility and a business model that seems to be driven by incremental upgrades has become rather a "tail wagging the dog" situation.

<< To be honest, I have always been confused with Artist Performance Tracks (APT) and Songs Lessons Pak (SLP). What exactly does each of them offer? Are they simply some pre-made SGUs/MGUs, aka pre-made styles with chords already entered? Do they have same contents overlapping each other?

I understand that SLP is included in Ultra+ but not Ultra version, in other words, SLP is basically the "+". On the other hand, APT is included in both Ultra and Ultra+ version, usually from the 49 Pak and Bonus Pak. The question is, what are they and how do I use them? >>

Artist Performance Tracks are the recorded audio files attached to any SGU/MGU project. They are the artist's accompaniment performance for a lesson or demo. Current example are the vocal tracks on the Vocal Demos. BIAB and Users normally would create Artist Performance Files in a project. My BIAB software program has hundreds of demos and lessons dating back to 2009 that contain Artist Performance Tracks.

Artist Performance Files are custom audio User Tracks attached to any BIAB project that can use every sound medium BIAB recognizes like RealTracks, SuperMidi Tracks, MIDI and audio. The Artist Performance Files feature permits and empowers BIAB to convert audio files so they can be copied and moved to any BIAB Mixer Track. An Artist Performance File can be a single instrument, a mixture multiple instruments and can consist of any combination of sound media recognized by BIAB. It's a very versatile and powerful tool for BIAB. Several years ago I posted more information about Artist Performance Files *Here*


A note of interest; 100% of the Artist Performance Tracks in Demos and lessons, every one of them, are finalized and saved as an SGU/MGU type file. Although many of these files use recordings that originated in RealBand or another DAW, edited, effects added, multiple tracks comped, routed and bused in the DAW and that audio was exported from the DAW and imported into a BIAB project and mixed and rendered from there with the finished imported DAW audio saved in a folder with the BIAB SGU/MGU file. None are finalized and saved as a RealBand or DAW file.

It's an interesting conceptual reversal of a DAW track export to BIAB rather than exporting BIAB tracks for a DAW project. Recording a project in this manner is much faster, easier and allows for a more complex arrangement because 100% of every BIAB tool, technique, function and feature remain instantly available for use in the song rather than only having a few BIAB/RB generated tracks available with 0% of BIAB tools, techniques, functions and features available to the DAW project. Artist Performance Files are a critical component of accessing this composition toolbox and turn BIAB into a very powerful, robust, digital multi track recorder.

Multi Tracks View & Edit in the Audio Edit Window

something like that

This is replacing a section

Hi MusicVillian,

There some samples of things that don't work correctly at the moment, with the V5.0.9 plugin version included in the build 1006 update:

- when re-opening a DAW project, the plugin comes always 2 bars late. The song has to be re-generated first, before it is in sync again. And it will forget once I closed and re-opened the Daw Project again. That's not specific to any DAW, it happens with Samplitude, Reaper, Cubase and Studio One.
- e.g. inserting a bar at the chord sheet creates a mess with the song structure, other than with the standalone application.
- the "paste special" function does not work
- re-opening an already generated song in in Reaper with the DAW the plugin, it always shows a tempo mismatch
- Whatever I try to set in the plugin preferences or e.g. count-in in song structure seems to be ignored.
- worst of all: since recently, the plugin consumes some 28GByte of Ram when opened (checked via the task manager). That's some 25 times more than what the BiaB standalone would use, opening the same song. This leads to a freeze of my computer and the plugin won't respond anymore, for some minutes. The memory is not freed-up anymore until I kill the session. There seems to be some kind of memory leak with the VST3 plugin.

Interestingly enough, the BiaB standalone application works fine in the 2023 version.

Cheers
Roland

musocity,


Your picture is exactly what I'm talking about. So, is this reality or fictional?

Did you actually make this multi-track interface happen, or you just photoshopped it?

Roland,


I'm so glad to hear this. I'm 100% using on the standalone version and never use the BBPlugin, so all these bugs you mentioned won't apply to me.

In my opinion, I always feel the standalone version is like an iPhone, where the BBPlugin is like an iPod. You may be able do a things or two on the iPod for fun, but when it comes to more serious tasks, you never want to do them without an iPhone.

@Charlie Fogle

I have read your Artist Performance Tracks post written in 2020. The post was more of a feature introductory than a step by step tutorial.

Could you give a bit more details on how you and your brothers use the APT/APF in real life productions?


My understanding is APF is just a WAV/WMA file being mapped by the chord structure inside a SGU template with the same file name. This WAV file, can be a single instrument, or multi instruments, or a song, or external recordings. If a chord is later used but not pre-made in the SGU template, BiaB will use its zPlane Elastique engine to pitch shift to the nearest chord.

As I've searched, there's no video tutorial on YouTube specifically talks about using APT/APF. So How do I open a factory made APT/APF in BiaB? What exactly are the functional differences between an APT/APF and a regular RealTrack?

<< Could you give a bit more details on how you and your brothers use the APT/APF in real life productions? >>

Artist Performance Tracks and Artist Performance Files operate in BIAB similar to the RealTracks/UserTrack relationship. APT's are made by PG Music and APF's are user developed. PG Music's Bootcamp video where Tobin takes an existing PG Music vocal demo and completely creates a new mix is a good example.

How I use APF has changed over the last couple of yearly version releases. PG Music developers have used APF's to perform functions automatically that were manual operations prior to the introduction of Utility Tracks. Before Utility Tracks, I used APF's to enhance the BIAB Mixer into a very robust and powerful digital multi track recorder. With APF's there was no 8 track limitation to BIAB. An APF could be configured to function as a virtual track, a group, a sub-mix, a comp track, an aux track and a bounce track. Of course, being digital, there was no loss or degradation of mixed audio, no matter the number of routings used in a project. With PG Music adding the 16 Utility Tracks made these processes more visible and simplified the process. It's not complicated to produce a 50 track song in just a few minutes using only BIAB and APF's. Using APF's in conjunction with the RealTracks Medley Maker and MultiStyles makes creating very complex arrangements very quick. Instrument replacements and regenerations can be made without changing or losing the arrangement.

The main functional difference between an APT/APF and a regular RealTrack most obviously is how they generate. APF's will not regenerate to adjust to chord changes. That has to be done manually. APF's will follow key signature changes and tempo changes but don't adjust to bar changes such as adding or deleting measures or rearranging sections. They do not respond to Part Markers. I view them as an advanced track freeze option. A static track.

A user converts a track to an Artist Performance File with a Rt click on the track using the mouse, open Track Actions, Save track as Performance File (Wav/M4a). Saving an APF is different and faster than saving a WAV file. The audio file is automatically named and the track labels change to orange to show the track is an Artist Performance File. APF's can reside on all 24 tracks and are edited in the Audio Edit Window and can be accessed by the Audio Button at the top of the screen for additional functions and commands. This can be quite useful because for example, there are 18 different ways to modify volume control once a track is converted to an Artist Performance File.

<< " So How do I open a factory made APT/APF in BiaB?" >>
The easiest way to open a factory made Artist Performance Track would be to open a Song with Vocals demo SGU/MGU or a Song Lesson. My current BIAB version has hundreds of these dating back to 2009. There are no Pre-made APF files.

Here's the Moveable Audio Edit.
It should not be hard to implement. You can have an option to display multitrack or single track. It will also have vertical zoom.

This shows BiaB with a set tempo map (as it can't do decimal tempos) Rewired to the slave Reaper, Reaper has a varying decimal tempo map but it syncs to Biab constant tempo 120bpm map by adjusting the playback rate to follow BiaB.
The same way BiaB can have a sync vst to slave it to any DAW and follow it's tempo map. All files dragged out of BiaB will have acid info to fit the DAW tempo map.

Band in a Box has the Moveable, sizable Audio Edit Window. MultiTrack is likely coming in the future but a Moveable Audio Edit Window is here now.

Both pics have the icon but the title bar name is missing "Audio Edit"
yet the moveable Notation has "Notation"
and the moveable Piano Roll has "Piano Roll"

@Charlie Fogle
@Jim Fogle


PG Music offers many different Add-ons and Paks, and many of them have overlapping songs/styles/tracks/contents. When you install all these different Paks to the same C:\bb folder, is system going to generate duplicate files when overlapping contents are installed?

In Windows, installing the same program/content to the same location will result in one of the two possibilities:

(1) Same folders/files were replaced/overwritten, which is the most ideal, because the destination folder will be clean.
(2) A new folder/file is created and renamed by the system, making a mess. For example, previously a file exists called "MyFile", when being installed again, system creates a new file in the same folder called "MyFile (1)", therefore it will have duplicate files existing in the same folder.

So, when install all these paks and addons, how to avoid the same file being installed twice causing duplicate folders/files in the bb folder?

Because everything is installed in uniquely named folders. Because of this, there cannot be any duplication:

@AudioTrack

But, overlapping can happen. Overlapping means same songs/styles are included in different Paks from different years.


Also, if the same .exe installer is installed twice by accident, is it going to make a mess?

Historically, that has never been a problem. Running the same installer twice, or running a later installer over the top of an existing install simply updates whatever is required to be updated. It does not create duplicates. This is by design.

@Charlie Fogle


I see. musocity's screenshot was a fake. Movable audio edit window currently does NOT have multi-track view.

More of a mock up of what's possible. Currently, there's no advantage to show multiple tracks in the Audio Edit Window because it's a single track editor and the menu's, functions, and edits are all single track. With the introduction of Utility Tracks and audio being able to load on more tracks than just the Audio Track, this is changing over the last few years and Multiple track edits are a reasonable expectation for future updates and enhancements.

This is indeed good news. C:/bb folder will never have duplicates then.

In the multitrack audio edit whatever track you focus on is the track you edit.
It works the same way as selecting the track in the drop down but can display all tracks. This can give you an instant visual of all tracks where you have volume automation or where instruments come in.
Actually it would not be that hard to code.

So it is a wishlist thing. Then how did you make the interface look like real in your JPGs/GIFs?

You can request it in the wishlist.
copy & paste

musocity, can you achieve this in the current 2023 version with AutoHotkey scripting?

You will need to wait for PG to implement multitrack view.
You can hold the mouse over the name and use the mouse wheel to scroll through the tracks.

MV.

Sometimes see some of my wishes ive posted in the biab wishes forum. (and for realband also.).
see mcity's great graphics in wishlists.

a multitrack view in biab would be lovely.
loved that biab mtrak view.

realband has such a view...tracks view.

best

om