I recently purchased a Roland Sonic Cell sound module to use with BIAB. This module is not shown in the list however I found a pat. file relating to this module. I can not find a Dk. file to load the patches. Can you help me.
Mild Turkey
The .pat file is for the patches.
Did you install Sonic Cell to the system?
VSTi or DXi ?
Thanks for your advice. I now understand how this works and I can access the Pat. file OK. In the Roland Sonic Cell there are 32 preset drum rythm sets apart from the GM and I would like to use them but there is no DK. file. Do you have any clues on how I can sort this out.
The manual should give you the bank number change needed (if necessary) but I bet they just need reception of the right program change number on channel 10.
Around page 223 in manual it shows you the ctrl change numbers you would need to enter.. for all of your various banks (at the top of each listed bank).
http://www.pgmusic.com/techfaq23.htm#41
Biab defaults to sending a "GM on" message at startup. That means it automatically puts your SC into GM mode. Those drums you don't like are the GM ones and they can't be edited and you can't access the other non GM drum kits when the unit is in GM mode. Tell Biab to not send the "GM on" message and manually put your SC into Performance mode. This should solve your problem with Biab however, if you use a lot of midi files, be aware most midi files are in GM or SMF format so again, they will put your SC into GM mode and you'll have the same problem with the drums. With midi's you have to edit the midi file itself to remove the "GM on" message and make sure your SC is in Performance mode, not GM mode.
Another possible problem is with GM drum mapping. That is, different parts of the kit are mapped to certain keys according to the GM standard like Bb3 for a kick, Ab4 for the ride cymbal, etc. If you do access a non GM kit in your SC but play a GM midi drum track it may or may not sound right. I don't know if Roland uses the GM mapping for all their kits. Most synth makers don't so you could hear anything like a kick part playing as a triangle bell or whatever. I do know that for all the non GM kits in the SC, you can change that mapping and save as a new kit to get around that problem. It's up to you to decide if it's better to change the midi part itself or change the kit mapping because in Biab you can go into the drum kit window and change the mapping notes there to match your SC kit if you want to do it that way.
As you can see, as soon as you get away from using GM as your default, things get tricky.
Bob
Quote:
I don't know if Roland uses the GM mapping for all their kits.
In my experience anything in the last ten years or so pretty much does, when you get into 'kits'. If it's in the rythm patch group, it will be laid out nicely.
The couple recent Rolands I have, and others I've seen all use the basic GM layout for the kit, however where GM spec says it is a triangle on a given note those 'extra' sounds may vary. However the basic kit is pretty reliable. Bass, snare, toms, cymbals.. sidestick etc
All of that is in the manual too. Shows the keyboard layout and every sample for any note on a given kit. Roland manuals are large, but there is often great info in there.
I believe Biab loads the Dk. file based on what you have selected as your "soundcard" device in the midi driver set up area. See if there is one based on a Roland or even SC there.
Trax
I have been using my Sonic cell module with BIAB for some time without problem since receiving the above tips. I have recently bought a new desk top computer to process and edit my music. It is a Toshiba with Windows 7, 64 bit operating system which is the same as my lap top that I have used for perfrmance with Sonic Cell. When playing songs that have both midi and audio parts the song distorts, slows down and misses complete bars. I have tried reinstalling the drivers several times but I can not find a solution. Has anyone had similar problems and do they know of fix? Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
It's been a year since your first post, you didn't mention what your old operating system was. Always good to do that, for now I'm assuming it was XP. You need to go to the Roland site and find the downloads for the Sonic Cell then find the Vista 64 bit drivers. Yeah I know you have Win 7 but the Vista drivers will work unless they've posted newer ones but I doubt they have, the SC has been discontinued.
Bob
Thanks for the advice. I have 2 laptops, both Windows 7 and Sonic Cell works without problem on both. I tried your suggestion but the new computer will not allow the Vista version to instal. I have notice the problem is also with midi only songs but not to the same degree as audio/midi songs.
I have sorted this problem and thought I would publish the fix so othere might benfits if they have the same issues. I simply increased the buffer size in Sonic Cell to maximum in the sound settings in the computer. All working good. Back to editing and enjoying the music.
I thought I had this problem sorted but I am still getting glitches in notes and latency in some bars. Can anyone tell me if the Roland sccc1 in the sound module menu relates to the Roland Sonic Cell with 1 card.
Quote:
I thought I had this problem sorted but I am still getting glitches in notes and latency in some bars. Can anyone tell me if the Roland sccc1 in the sound module menu relates to the Roland Sonic Cell with 1 card.
The dropdown to select specified synths only has the Patch Names in proper order aligned with the MIDI Patch Bank and Number that correspond, so that you can easily select all the Patches within a partifular synth.
That file has nothing whatsoever to do with connection or latency.
A hardware MIDI synth should have basically ZERO latency to it.
If the latency is continuous, ie always there, check the BB MIDI Output window Latency block and make sure it is set to zero when using a hardware synth.
If the problem is that the synth plays okay but every once in a while it stutters or otherwise gets behind the music, that is not a latency problem per se, it is something to do with your MIDI connect to the computer, either a Driver problem or possibly an Interrupt problem of some sort. Check the mfr's website for newer driver release and if found, try downloading and installing.
IF the MIDI device is USB connected, it is important to always plug the device into the same USB connect on the computer as used when the drivers were installed. Plugging into another will sometimes load either generic USB driver, which can be bad. Also make sure the USB device is plugged in, turned on and recognized by the OS *BEFORE* starting the BiaB program as the program only "looks" for the device at startup.
--Mac
I'm confused as to the purpose of the usb cable connection? Is this only used for VSTI, DXI or for synth plugins in BIAB?
I use a usb M-Audio 1 midi connection, with a usb flash drive, and the usb cable connected to a hub on my laptop, running Windows XP Home edition. I did check the registry and midi, midi 1 and midi 2 shows assigned, I would guess, as the appropriate drivers for those devices? (they aren't identified there as named and only show as driver/dll or sys)
One of my midi playback devices is the SC, and the another one is a Roland PMA-5 using a
Roland UM1 midi connection cable. They both show as *only* USB devices (Roland UM1 & M-Audio 1) and not as the SC or the PMA-5. I am unable to see the SC or the PMA-5 as selectable devices, but the SC does show in Sonar, as a selectable *instrument definition.* The PMA-5 also can show as an instrument def choice too, when that driver is loaded.
I believe at one point the SC did appear as a selectable "named" device, but not now? Am I missing something that is inhibiting it to show as such in BIAB or in any other program, for that matter? Keep in mind, the SC does playback/work from BIAB and the usb cable does *seem* to reflect or sound that it is connected, especially when it is
disconnected or UN-plugged?
Wrkinit (or not)
Quote:
I'm confused as to the purpose of the usb cable connection? Is this only used for VSTI, DXI or for synth plugins in BIAB?
I don't know the sonic cell but with my xv-2020, the usb cable is necessary to manage and edit the sounds. It can be used as a standart midi port too.
It has nothing to do with softsynths.
The problem I was initially having with the SC was due to my hard drive going bad.
It's amusing how computer technology is so volatile that it can sometimes you lead
down the path of the unknown...case in point, programs will work to a degree, where
everything appears to be ok, but really isn't? In my case, the issue was my laptop
wouldn't *fully* recognize the usb cable connection and wouldn't display the SC as
a selectable device. The only way it actually worked was thru the midi
connection, that is, until my laptop HD finally crashed. Go figure?
Wrkinit (at times)
Well after restoring my system by replacing the HD, I noticed that the SC is still not recognized as a selectable device. Fortunately, this issue is only on 1 of my laptops and the unfortunate thing is that the problem laptop is only capable of 256mg of memory and has a slower processor using service pack 2 (service pack 3 slows the entire system down). It's really old. (Compaq Amanda), but it has a built in CD/DVD burner, a 3.5" floppy drive, 1 usb port and they don't make them like this anymore, thus the problem (dedicated just for music and was under $100.00). My other laptop which is an old IBM ThinkPad, has the same built in devices, but the memory is larger and uses a faster Pentium processor, service pack 3 and the SC works as designed, on this one....
The only thing I can think of why one laptop sees the SC and why the other one doesn't is that, the IBM is faster and runs on Windows XP Pro with service pack 3, verses the XP Home Edition with service pack 2, that's on the slower Compaq. I could be wrong, but it's still baffling??? Has anyone else experienced this or is it just me, again?
Wrkinit (sometimes)
Are you sure that your usb port works well ?
At this point I'm suspecting everything, especially that 1 usb port. I have a lot of hubs working off of it and I'm sure that's some of the problem too...sigh. Although, everything does work, kinda sorta, there's that 1 issue. O well, at least it's not inhibiting me from doing things. I'm at that phase in life (CRS) and that could be some of the issue as well.
O well, thanks for the input,
Wrkinit
Your problem is most likely the USB port on the older computer. It may be malfunctioning, or it might jsut be that the computer was built at a time when the USB implementation wasn't up to what it is capable of today, which is highly likely.
The Sonic Cell may require USB 1.1 at the least and very likely that would be marginal bandwidth for the device, with USB 2.0 likely being the preferred.
**You might find a BIOS flash and newer USB drivers for the computer on the mfrs website, may or may not provide functionality here.**
--Mac
Thanks for the heads up Mac. The more I think about it, you’re probably right. I’ve been having issues of late with that usb port. I’ll look into the bios and the newer 2.0 usb drivers. When I tried to have the 256mb memory increased I was told that the mother board was dated and the memory couldn’t be upgraded There lies' some of the other issues with it being so old. At least it does work, but I know it could perform a lot better. Thanks again for all the support.
Wrkinit (I'm still hopeful)
Hope is not gonna work here.
If the laptop cannot accept more than 256megs of ram, that is the end of the road, you'd be far better off looking for a newer used laptop or the likes, one that can do the kind of job demanded here.
--Mac
I hear you Mac, but I do have another one (with larger memory) that does work. Both of these
laptops are older, but do what I need, for the most part. They have built in 3.5 floppy drives
and CD/DVD burners also usb capability. They don't make them like that anymore...so...I did as
you suggested and downloaded everything I could to update that Compaq, but to no avail. It's
not a big deal breaker, but it would've been nice to have that one work off the usb cable, on
the SC, as well.
Still,
Wrkinit
256Mb of ram? That laptop must be 10 years old. I have a friend who still uses Biab 2007 or something like that. He had an old Pentium III with 256 of ram. It would barely handle midi only using the Roland VSC. His was upgradable to 512 and he found a ram stick for $10 and that helped. A year later I gave him my old P4 with 2 gigs ram and everything is perfect. You really need something newer.
Bob
Well, as I stated in my last post, I do have another laptop that works. It's the older 1 that's
at least 20 + something that's the issue. And I also use BIAB 2007.5 and 2009.5 which works just
fine for me. There is a Yahoo BIAB forum that discussed "New and Improved" BIAB midi updates.
Which basically addressed the abandonment of the midi portion of the program or the lack there
of. Anyway, I've suspected all along that the older of my 2 laptops was just too antiquated to
run the SC the way I wanted. I thought a while back I was able to use the usb cable with it,
but maybe I was wrong. It does work using midi cables and the lap does recognize that the cable
is connected, but that's about it, so it's not really a big thing.
Thanks for responding, just the same.
Wrkinit
I missed your last post but floppy drives? Everything I said still stands. If you can make that "newer" one work great but man, it's time to retire that thing. They don't make them like that any more? They sure don't, nothing modern would work on it if they did. The thing is, I'm probably the only one here who actually engages someone with an antique computer and tells them they really need to upgrade. This isn't the first time and guess what, everybody else has upgraded. The other posters in this thread probably to their credit
just stay polite and make a few suggestions. Me, I tell it like it is. You're wasting your time believe me trying to chase incompatibility issues with a laptop that old. If it's not this issue today, it'll be something else tomorrow until you finally trash it and and get something that's less than 5 years old.
Bob
Here's the thing, Bob since you aren't following the entire thread. The old laptop works just fine, except for that one *small* issue of not being able to select the SC as a device. However, as I stated before, the *older* laptop (was inexpensive and is dedicated more for music) sees the connection and works using my midi connection and not the usb cable. This is a minor thing and I am well aware that a brand new computer, more than likely, would be less of a hassle in that regard, maybe? My other laptop, also an older model, has a faster cpu, more memory and the same built in devices (floppy and CD/DVD burner), works and sees the SC as it should. So to suggest I trash the problem child for a newer model, because it's old, reminds me of the saying, "If it ain't broke..." I am not of the "rich" school of buying the newest thing on the market (technology wise) to be ahead of or keeping up with the pack. I don't have it like that and I'm really not interested in pleasing others because it's the "in" thing to do.
Often times, the new and improved has it's own set of issues, OS, drivers, software compatibility and the like. So don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the feedback on this, but your mode of thought is, well let's just say, not how I would roll. When I posted my dilemma, I *thought* there was something I was missing, because I had believed at one time, it did work.
FWIW,
Wrkinit
Yep, if you're using biab with an external sound-module and no realtracks or vsti, your old computer "should" work. Midi is very light on cpu.
Sometimes using a Powered USB Hub can work on older machines where the USB connection does not seem to be able to work with certain devices.
--Mac
I am using a powered usb and that has helped, somewhat. Old is what it is...sigh!
Wrkint
It's always been problematic (2nd hand purchase for under $100.00), but since there is only 1 port on this older machine and I'm not sure if the upgrade I did from 1.1 to 2.0 worked or helped? I use 2 hubs (1 is powered and the other is not) that run most of the other (8) usb connections I have.
Removing everything and just connecting the SC to the usb port by itself didn't seem to make it work either. The laptop knows when it is connected and when it's not, but that's it, so the usb port and cable do work. How well it does work is another matter, in terms of it being capable of running newer and more demanding technology, that's the gist.
However, the SC does work using the *usb* cable and port, on my other laptop, so it's not a really pressing matter. I was just curious as to whether or not it could/did on the older of the 2 laps.
Wrkinit