BiaB has a MIDI Event Editor with Filters, and allows viewing of selected events by using the filter functions.

Surprisingly, the RB MIDI Event Editor is much less functional, and doesn't allow this level of filter control.

What is the best way to filter in / filter out MIDI messages in RB?

Hi, Videotrack -

That's a great observation. It seems to me that there should be cross polination between the two MIDI event editors. The RealBand editor should gain the ability to filter events (as is available in BIAB), and the BIAB editor should gain the ability to select all tracks (not just soloist and melody). Since you can freeze tracks in BIAB and then make editing changes (for example, in the piano roll editor), why not allow similar editing in the event list editor as well.

Of course, once you unfreeze, the part gets re-generated, which in my mind then would lead to needing a flag indicating that you have made event edits, so that if you try to unfreeze, you get a warning that your edits will be lost.

This sounds like a good idea for the wishlist.

In RB the flow is different, that's all.

Decide what action you want to do to the selected events; Cut, Copy,Paste,transpose,change Value, whatever...

Example:
Highlight a desired section to be edited
Use Edit - Change Velocities
Check the box for Filter Data
Click OK

Now look at the available options.
Note the available 'Secondary Filter' box. You can Filter by 'X' and 'Y' combined, if you need it.

RB's MIDI editing is pretty strong, just a different way of doing things.

Try to avoid the mistake of thinking that because both programs can use BiaB styles and such, that they should be identical in operation. There are good reasons for the differences.

Besides that, if both programs were identical in operation, why have two?

RealBand lays the whole thing out along the timeline.

Band in a Box does not, relying on repeats, choruses, etc.


--Mac

Thanks RHarv for the clarification.

So the MIDI editing is done differently, and I can see that this method is more flexible / powerful, but that doesn't change the items displayed in the Event List. The user still sees ALL MIDI events, regardless of what items are selected / de-selected in the Data Filter? Have I got that correct?
Appreciate your help
Cheers
Trevor

And I wouldn't have it any other way...

Just FYI (for those not knowing this)

You could route MIDI out to MIDI-OX, filter there then onto the softsynth, external module, or another PC DAW/sequencer (or external sequencer/recorder) to re-record the MIDI traffic, sans MIDI events x,y,z, pitch bends, etc.

With some clever MIDI channel re-mapping and a multi-port utility like Loopbe30 it might be possible to re-recorded BACK INTO same RB/PTPA: "bad MIDI" goes out one channel it comes back FILTERED on another and is recorded in RB/PTPA. I've never tired it sinc I've never needed to do it (I use other programs or external HW if needed).

And while not exactly the same thing with some re-routing - recapture, RB and PTPA have a MIDI monitor utility with a built in filter .dll that can be run under "Action -> Select .exe. or .dll"

Larry

I'm OK with it, as long as I know how it works, what to expect in the display.

Hi Mac, yep I understand the differences, but my question was just related to the display of MIDI data and filters, not so much styles or how BiaB handles styles differently to RB, repeat choruses, or what gets sent to the MIDI port.

I really was only looking for how viewing filters could be used for example to only list note events, or only list control events, or only list program change events in the viewer display.

Such a viewing filter can then be used to list all events of the same type together, allowing more effective viewing of where certain events occur, without having to wade through tons of other MIDI Event data to find specific control events etc.

It's not a BiaB vs RB thing. IMO such a display filter has very practical purposes.

MIDI

Musical Instrument Digital Interface

Not a word, "Midi" yuck.


--Mac the MIDIOT


(Its bad enough that so many persist in using the word, "interface" to describe pieces of hardware... )

I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI".
I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI".
I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI".
I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI".
I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI".
I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI".
I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI". I must type "MIDI".
...

copy 'n paste ain't practice...

Sorry to interupt. I am new to BIAB and maily use it to get and practice music on clarinet.
I have been looking at the piano roll window and can understand the one for notes. Can anyone explain in simple terms what the lower panel does.
e.g what does the height of an event signify?
What is velocity?
How do you change pitch, duration, velocity etc.
Does the lower panel reflect what is done in the upper panel.
Finally I get the impression that the lower panel is for MIDI control. Is this correct?

If this is not the right part of the forum to get answers to this can you please direct me gently to the correct section of the forum.]Thanks in advance.

Hi Madsy, and a big welcome to the forums!

The lower section of the piano roll window has several purposes, but its most common purpose is the show note "velocity". However, other MIDI data types can be displayed, and filters may be selected to show events for that specific data type.
You can think of velocity as the loudness of a note. Think of playing a piano softly (piano) or loudly (forte) - the hammer strikes the strings with more velocity when played forte.

The notes may be dragged up/down to change pitch, or left right to change position. The velocity may be adjusted by selecting the note in the top window, and looking for the corresponding highlighted velocity value directly below it in the bottom window, then position the mouse cursor at the top of the vertical line, and click/hold drag up/down. Press Help on the page for a lot more detail.

You can always start a new post to start a new thread in any of the available Forum topics.

Some visual samples below, that might assist to illustrate:
Hope this answers your question satisfactorily.
Cheers
Trevor

Many thanks Trevor. I'm not sure I will use MIDI.
I do have the capability and the instruments including 4 keyboards (Roland Kurzweil etc) belonging to my son who lives overseas.

My interest is more in wind instruments altho, come to think of it, I do have an EWI4000 which has MIDI. I might give that a go.
Cheers

Hi Madsy

If you are performing any tasks using the piano roll, you are probably essentially using MIDI data.

If you have any external instruments that connect to your Band In A Box / Real Band computer, through a 5 pin DIN cable (similar to the image below), you are most likely using MIDI.

MIDI is good, flexible, and easy to use.

You can also use Real Tracks and Real Drums - which are internal pre-recorded audio tracks - instead of MIDI, or you can use these alongside MIDI data to complement your arrangements. The system is extremely flexible.

MIDI is not actual music sounds. Simplistically, MIDI is a series of commands from Band In A Box to an external synthesizer to tell it what notes to play, how loud to play, how long to play etc.

Don't be afraid of MIDI, it's just a way that the system uses to make musical devices work together. You don't need an understanding of the internal technologies for you to make this to work.

Don't be afraid to explore the power and features that the system provides.

This Forum consists of a great team of experts who all assist each other.

Cheers

Trevor

The PianoRoll cc editor can also be used on any Audio Track as well.

There typically won't be any Note Data there, but you can indeed invoke some of the MIDI cc's, such as cc7 - Volume or cc11 - Expression on an Audio Track using the PianoRoll.

Of course, with the advent of the new Volume Node Automation in RB2014, we can now draw Volume Nodes right underneath an Audio Track in Tracks View, which is the easier way to invoke these now.

The OP on this might be better served to hook up both MIDI and Audio output of one of those keyboards or even the WIDI and chooswe to Record Both at Once.

That can be a great way to be able to correct mistakes, as the MIDI Recorded Track easily allows for Deleting Notes, Changing Notes, etc. in the event of a mistake, whereas editing Audio track can only allow one to slice and dice, predominantly.


--Mac

One important thing to notice: in Piano Roll you can enter CC11 (Expression) on an audio track, which is nice. Then you can set the track overall volume with CC7 and then adjust down from there when you need to, using CC11.

My personal opinion on Nodes is they should control CC11, not CC7.
Then the track slider (CC7) would control the overall volume, but the Nodes would still work in conjunction with the volume slider. More intuitive flexibility that way.

The only downside (or a plus in some eyes) is the track slider doesn't move with the CC11 (node) changes ..

The above conversation gives me a headache! I though CC7 and CC11 were related to CCR ?!?!?

I want USER SELECTABLE on the Nodes.

However, rharv ole buddy, they don't want control, they just want more LOUD, eh?

Give 'em cc11 and the forum complaint post number rises exponentially.


--Mac

I'd also like Nodes to be assignable/USER SELECTABLE (and filterable) as I'm sure you know.

But since they assigned just one CC# at this point .. and if I had to choose .. I'd prefer it were 11 versus 7. If they can make it assignable soon; cool. Even better.