New gig last night - first question - "Are you doing karaoke?"

"I do, however, think there is a rebellion in the camp between the MIDI enthusiasts and the Real tracks enthusiasts, and it might be in Notes' best interest not to throw gasoline on that fire. HE depends on PGMusic.. THEY don't depend on him"

Well that is a very good observation Pat Marr. I would just like to add that there may be times when a user has only a limited amount of money to spend, so he/she could be faced with the dilemma of either buying the latest realtracks or after seeing one of Notes's posts is torm between buying the realtrakcs or Norton disks.
That way PGmusic loose out on its own forum.

Actually I was thinking of buying quite a few more Norton disks but after putting about 20 in the basket and reaching the grand old total of over $500-$600 even with the sales discounts I just gave up, in my opinion far too expensive compared to the great sales that PG runs

Martin

Wow! What an ugly mess I started. Sorry about that.

This is long, sorry about that, but I believe necessary.

I thought I was being helpful.

BTW, Peter Gannon has always allowed me to announce new style and fake disks plus new demo mp3s here. I appreciate that and thank him for that. I asked for permission and was granted that leeway back in the early days of this forum which was in the latter part of the 20th century.

I also enthusiastically support PG Music on this and other forums. I talk it up to musicians and have sold either directly or indirectly a couple of hundred people on BiaB. I used to re-sell them from PG Music before PG started the direct download (first on floppy disks and later CDs) and now I simply give them the PG Music website. I also mention Band-in-a-Box on all of my magazine ads, giving the product national exposure. Plus it boosts the brand name to know that other people are writing aftermarket products for it. It's a sure sign of success. PG Doesn't need that, but I'm sure it helped a great deal in the early days, and still helps to some extent now.

I love PG Music and I love BiaB. I don't use all the features of BiaB, but I really love the ones that I use, and those are the ones I tend to talk about on these forums.

The post did not carry an ad for my products, and did not dis PGs products. The Karaoke duo as far as I know was not using BiaB but I do know they purchase karaoke tracks and those audio loop disks to make their backing tracks. Thus it is in the Off Topic forum where other musical applications are supposed to be discussed.

I've heard them, they are decent musicians/singers, their tracks do sound like karaoke tracks though. An entertainment purchaser noticed that and will not hire them again. So I though a word to the wise for those people who gig in public might be helpful.

If you want to follow the advice, go ahead, if not, please ignore it. There is more than one right way to make music, and what is right for one isn't necessarily right for another.

And although I don't believe the duo in question was using BiaB nor did I state they were using BiaB, perhaps they should..........

And conversely, I do not use BiaB for every one of my backing tracks. I use it when appropriate, and sequence from scratch when it is not appropriate. Often it's a combination of BiaB and sequencing. But I always use MIDI for my voices. I tried audio loops but didn't think they were the best tool for me.

As most people know, I am a MIDI person, and I enthusiastically support MIDI in this and other forums. Other people support audio loops and Real Tracks. If we both weren't allowed to enter the discussion, there wouldn't be a discussion at all. I also promote BiaB in other forums. What's good for PG is good for me, since I ride on their proverbial coat tails.

If some people can expound on the benefits of RTs, why can't other expound on the benefits of MIDI? Just because I sell MIDI product does that disqualify me from entering the discussion? If that were the case, everybody who has used RTs for commercial benefit, whether it be song writing or gigging should also be disqualified from the discussion.

Band-in-a-Box does support MIDI, as well as RTs. There are people who tell the world how great the RTs are, and they expound on the good qualities of them. I agree and have frequently stated that I am extremely impressed with the wonderful job PG has done with the RTs. It's almost magic.

But there is more than one tool in the PG Music tool box. What's wrong with stating the benefits of one of the other tools?

Nothing I hope.

Use the right tool for the job.

If I was sending songwriting demos to Nashville or LA, I'd probably use Real Tracks as I know that the people who audition songwriting demos have a bias against 100% MIDI tracks. Like many musicians, they listen to the tone as much as the content. If that were the case, I'd probably be telling you about my successes and hopefully offering you a helping hand on that area of the biz.

If I were playing in a big band on a cruise ship (or other similar venue), I'd probably be playing along with a click track that has real musicians and possibly even vocalists on it. I've played as a duo on cruise ships and watched the 'orchestra' play along with click tracks for the main show. All the vocals except for the lead production singer were even done via lip sync by the dancers.

But since I play in a duo for Yacht Clubs, Country Clubs, Retirement Communities, and other adult venues (Florida is full of them and they pay well), I use MIDI tracks. One reason is to avoid being confused with a karaoke act, another is that they allow me to edit the tracks to my hearts content to personalize the output of BiaB and turn what I feel is a very good output into something better (hopefully my audience will agree).

As a duo performer, I am very close to the audience. They walk right up to us and talk to use between songs (and sometimes during the song, which I try to discourage). Some of them even ask how we sound like more than two pieces. I ask them about their involvement in music and give them the appropriate explanation.

I am (hopefully) middle-aged and I grew up in the pre-Internet age and when neither rock or contemporary jazz was taught in school (with the exception of Berklee). Musicians shared their tips and secrets with each other, and we all learned from our collective experience. I am the player I am today because I learned so much from other musicians. I try to help as much as I get.

If you go to my site, you will see commercial products designed to put a few dollars in my pocket and a lot of other information that is of no benefit for me to share. In fact, my competitors can read that information and help their acts compete more successfully with me. But when I was young I learned a lot from my competitors sharing information with me, and now that I'm middle aged I still learn from others, the main difference is that with years of experience, I have more to share.

If the moderators or Peter Gannon think any of my posts are out of line, I would hope they would send me a PM or an e-mail letting me know that, so that I would refrain from posting again.

So if the original post helped another duo to get gigs, it has done the purpose it was posted for. Since it obviously irritated some others, I hope this settles you down, if not, please accept my apology.

I don't like any of it. I don't like the roundabout advertising. I don't like the fact people don't like what other people like, or like people who are people who don't like certain things.

I am very UNSURE as to what is a karaoke track. Is that where you take midi and use a device and end up with a sound?

If that's the case then using software to further edit that and dick about with it, in the end is just fancier karaoke.

At the end of the day, at the other end of the pool, if the music does it for you, then cool.

I have never ever liked the karaoke thing. Drunks.

At the end of the day, someone gets up, makes a mess of a good song, and I run for the hills.

I still think the MIDI camp shall die a slow death, and I'd advise getting a computer and software and putting it in the closet, because the support is going to wane. You need that copy of xp eh?

I re-iterate, I have a Ketron, a jv1010, and 3 midi keyboards. But I just don't see it. And you get a newbie, played the stick in '71, and wants to play '60's stuff. He's going to learn terminology, cc controls, how to tweak a guitar track, fool with multiple synths because only he knows that the 4th patch on the pianos from some module available through Barky Dog headquarters in Dallas (sorry Radio Snack), makes the only piano that works while people are snacking at the Tiki Bar. Yup. That's it. Soon he's learned the steel and can argue the fine points of how to wind stings. Right-O.

The same guy who sits here and rattles on about how only MIDI sounds right, then tells you it's all about realism, and he's got that in spades. Sure. But if offered any realtrack, oh, man, that sucks. The same guy, who really thought PGmusic knew what they were doing, now tells us that that all ended the day RealTracks showed up. The same smart guys are now...what??? Put a word to it. Come on. They are:
Misguided?
Wrong?

Be kind here, you make the bed, get in. How can you tell me you can find a lick in an old midi module that you tweaked that is so good, it darn well sounds almost like, um Oliver Gannon.

Golly, mine sounds exactly like Oliver Gannon. Must be wrong though. Not ready for consumption.

'Cmon, it's time to just put the brakes on the free advertising.

Half the guys wading in here don't even have products from Notes Norton. I've got 4 fakebooks...so at least I have some sense of what is happening. Of course unless you get the styles, you will be told your songs suck because you are using pgmusic styles.

So now you have 1 company that sells only midi, who comes on here and tells us in a convoluted story that some woman said that karaoke sucks, and he certainly does NOT do that, so he's employed and the other jerks are gone. And, if he'd used realtracks that would be no good either. This is all due to superior styles, and modules, and midi, available, not at pgmusic, but only chez him. Fine.

Follow the logic here. I am having trouble finding any that makes any sense. You argue yourself right in a loop. Might as well go out and buy some.

Now I maybe ate too many Fruit Loops, and I know that rappy music is full of loops, but I have other listening options. Even being legally deaf.

The whole thing is laughable, and I'm having fun just watching the twisting in the wind. You have to see your logic is illogical. Crazy even.

I suppose it would all be ok if you bought those kar files, then got a Notes style, and followed his instructions on how to roll it, messed about, and make them midi files, THEN you make an audio file for a backing track. No karaoke there. Because kar files can be transposed when played. Your backing track does not have to because your voice is good for that key.

We all ready had a shootout at the ok corral, and for my ears there was no midi that worked. But of course, again, I'm deaf.

Where to now? Maybe Notes can buy the midi end of pgmusic in a few years, and lead ya'll to the promised midi land, where no notes clash, and rivers of honey ensue, while making you all music sheikhs, having bevy's of Camels. Smoke 'em if ya gott'em. Most programmers do. Puff Camels that is.

Come on John. This post was not free advertising, I didn't mention my own products nor the products the duo we got the job from uses. Because I sell products does that disqualify me from participation in a music discussion? If so, everybody on the board who has ever sold a song or played a gig should also be disqualified as they make money in the music industry as well.

I placed the tip as a help to other backing track gigging musicians. Perhaps I shouldn't be so helpful?

I've talked about my microphone choices, my speaker choices, my custom made saxophone, my guitar choice, my sonic maximizer, and lots of other musical subjects here. I've shared gear and performance tips and tricks with others, and I've learned a lot from the tips and tricks others have posted here. I thought that's what music forums were all about. Why is it that this is any different just because I sell MIDI styles? It's all music, isn't it? And if you prefer any other way of making music, let us know about it, perhaps I can glean a tip or two from you.

I'm a big supporter of BiaB. I loved BiaB before I started writing styles for it. In fact, I started writing styles for BiaB because I love it. I tried writing styles for other auto-accompaniment software apps (who I will not mention) but they didn't have the musicality in their output so the end product didn't turn me on. So I dropped them. BiaB is simply the best out here.

Google Karaoke tracks and you will hear a bunch of them. Recordings of songs, similar to the record, complete with background vocals. Sort of a Music-Minus-One approach. They sound great, pretty much like the recording, although a trained ear can hear insignificant differences. I guess the untrained ear can hear that they are Karaoke too - perhaps because they sound too much like the original recording - I don't know for sure.

You say you think MIDI will die a slow death. You have a right to your opinion.

Personally, I doubt MIDI will die a slow death, as it hasn't even reached it's potential yet. Virtually every modern synthesizer whether it is a digital piano, b-3 clone, jupiter 80, tyros, Oasys, Motif, or whatever has MIDI under the hood. These instruments aren't going away anytime soon.

And what about those soft synths I read about in Keyboard and EM magazines? Are they not controlled by MIDI?

And what about BiaB, isn't MIDI at the core of it's workings?

And what about Pro Tools, Sonar, Cubase and other DAWs, isn't MIDI at their core, controlling everything?

It's more likely that MIDI will become the core controller for even more inventive musical applications in the future. At least that's the way I see it.

Of course, something better may come along to replace MIDI, but I don't see that happening any time in the near future. There is still room for development in MIDI, there are unused controllers waiting for an application and also manufacturer specific controllers dedicated for whatever the synth maker wants to use them for.

Plus MIDI was a rare cooperation between competing synthesizer manufacturers. Something that they all decided would be for the good of the industry, and it turns out that it was very good for the industry. I don't see that happening again unless there becomes a great need for it.

So saying MIDI will die a slow death will say that synthesizers will also die a slow death. I don't agree and I hope you are wrong.

But to quote something I heard on the radio (and found unintentionally humorous), "It's terribly difficult to make predictions --- especially about the future."

As someone who also has a duo that uses backing tracks, I must disagree with Mr. Norton.

“Good musicians, great sounding karaoke sounding backing tracks - but they sound like karaoke tracks - better tone to a musician's ear - but cheating to an audience member's ear.”

So an audience members' ear is more discerning than that of a musician? Poppycock.

MIDI backing tracks are musically superior to well-produced sampled tacks? Balderdash.

(always wanted to use those two words)

“I make my own tracks using 100% MIDI instruments “

With all due respect, it sounds like it as well. It's MIDI.

While I understand that Mr. Norton has a great deal invested in his MIDI tracks business, I submit that that ship has sailed – quite some time ago. Most touring acts use backing tracks today, and they are done with samples, not MIDI.

It seems odd to have an obsolete format like MIDI promoted on a site that has pioneered Real Tracks.

Hi bob,

First off I enjoyed reading your post and found that link interesting.
That said, I gotta agree with some here.
I did feel like you were advertising in an off handed way, but I just noticed it. It didn't bother me.
But there's a saying that goes something like, . "Where interest lies, honor dies."
Lol. But I didn't have to click on that link, and neither did anyone else.

I personally use Midi, karaoke and Realtracks to get the job done.
What ever works and sounds right.
Realtracks are great, but there's just not enough of them yet to fit every situation. Karaoke is the best sounding, but can't use them for original songs just covers.
Midi is the most versatile of the three, but is lacking in sound quality.
Some times though midi is the right fit for a certain song.
Some here might think midi is dead, but for me I'm gonna use every tool available til I can't do music anymore.

Tim

I can only play what I see on the sheet music so Midi and RT is perfect for me because I can create and save the BIAB file to match the music exactly i.e. repeats etc. A Karaoke file wouldn't match the sheet exactly so it is no use to me. We all have different needs.

Tony

Notes,

I want to go on record thanking you for all that you have shared here and on your web site. Most of what I know about MIDI I learned from you. I respect you as a musician, as a performer, as a businessman, as a communicator and as a person who has standards and lives by them. I can't say all those things about everybody I know.

If the final comment on my previous post came across as criticism... I meant it more as an observation. You may or may not already know that people on both sides of this discussion are weary of it.

When non-confrontational posts stir up confrontational replies, it's a sign that people are becoming sensitized to the topic.

Nuff said.

YES... enough of the 'Notes pushin' midi' already ! Don't you have a midi forum on your own site ? Sorry, it's just getting a bit old and I'm new here !

Yes the smell of very old spam does tend to stink up the place.

I think all opinions are important here and Notes does a great job being an advocate of using midi to accomplish your musical goals. Since this forum has become a RT dominated place, it is nice to hear what still can be done with midi. As long as PGM is OK with Notes' type of fairly low-key "advertising", I am OK with it, too. I mainly use RT's myself, but midi is not dead and won't be for awhile.

I say to Notes -- keep pushing midi, I am learning from your posts.

I also support Notes when it comes to MIDI.

I am also tired of the MIDI vs. RT threads but I must say some of the blame has to go to John. He keeps preaching that MIDI is dead and although he does have a right to think and say that when he does those of us who do not believe that have the same right to think and say it isn’t dead.

Just my thoughts.

Well I think midi is far from being dead. I thought I read on here somewhere that a new midi standard is being considered?
Doesn't sound like it's dead to me.
On higher end midi equipment the sounds are actually pretty good.
Especially piano, strings and the like.
But even on the higher end stuff instruments like acoustic guitars and certain reed instruments don't sound all that great.
At least they don't sound like the real thing. and that's OK too. Some times they sound better then the real instruments depending on the song and sound you're looking for.
There's really no contest when it comes to midi verses RT specially the acoustic side of things, but I still think midi has it's place as part of a musicians gear.
In my opinion comparing RT to midi is really apples and oranges.
They are two different animals and both have there place in today's music creation.

Tim

Must agree. I love my RealTracks.....and I use them a lot, BUT there are times when I need Midi. Both, to me, are equally valuable.

Joe G.

To each his/her own. I have a lot of sampled instruments in my MIDI arsenal. I have had great results using MIDI based backing tracks and nobody has ever complained about the tone.

I can cover the parts with slightly different sounding instruments, or entirely different instruments so the audience hears the song but doesn't hear what sounds like the original recording in the background.

And I can arrange the song to my heart's content - transpose it without munchkinization, extend it for some soloing or to keep the dancers on the floor longer (especially those 2 minute radio cuts), add a real ending instead of a fade out.

I can play the background vocal parts on synth or instrument samples so the audience doesn't hear stranger's voice singing the background vocals like so many karaoke tracks.

IMHO fade outs, background singers, and identical to the recording instruments are dead giveaways that you are doing karaoke -- but to tell the truth, I listen with musician's ears so I don't know what gives it away to the audience member that can tell the difference.

All I know is what I try in front of the audience, what works, what doesn't work, and what the people who hire us tell us about other groups. I've been in the duo since 1985, we've played on cruise ships, 5 star hotels, Television (CBS, NBC, ABC, MTV and the BBC), Yacht Clubs, Country Clubs, etc., from the US to the People's Republic of China (by invitation) so we must be doing something right.

But let me stress, the way we do it isn't the only right way to do it. I've always said there is more than one right way to make music. It works for us, and it works well for us.

I share what works for us. I've talked about gear, set lists vs playing the crowd, reading the crowd so you know what to try first, stage attitudes, what to do if you have a musical train wreck, and quite a few other topics on these forums. All are my opinion, all are what works for me, all are intended to be shared in the spirit of helping my fellow musicians the way my fellow musicians help me.

From the thousands of posts I've made, take what works for you, ignore what doesn't work for you, and please share what works for you with the forum so we can all learn from your successes and failures.

I have followed this thread and others where Notes has posted and he is no doubt a very capable professional musician and his views are much appreciated by me.

However Notes is pushing his fake disks (I have a few and they are really good) and on reading his posts it does seem to me that he is pushing the benefits of midi without understanding that there are quite a few of us that love realtracks as well and to appreciate the real benefit realtracks are to us.(for the record I use both midi and realtracks)

Like another poster on here I went to the Norton site and added about 10 disks to my basket and they very quickly added up to hundreds of dollars.

I just removed the lot from my basket in the end as it was December last and my money would be better spent in upgrading biab to 2012 for $139 ultra pak.

I know Bob says he is always running a sale but it was better for me to spend my money that way. (though it is his site and he can charge what he likes)

I don't think midi is dead or will die in the near future and I have no doubt PG will go back to developing new midi disks in the future.

Musiclover

True, I can't run the same kind of discount that PG does as my business is much smaller. Most people who buy from me buy everything from PG Music and a few things from me to enhance BiaB. And that's OK with me. Gigging is my main occupation, BiaB styles are my sideline.

But this post wasn't supposed to be about my products. It's about performance and what obviously irritated a client of ours about the previous band. A word to the wise.

Nor do I expect that my way of doing things is the definitive way of doing things. I studied engineering and there seems to be trade-offs for everything involved.

Doing karaoke tracks and putting loops together in a DAW may save time, have slightly better tone, but if you do, and you make them sound too karaoke-ish, you might turn some people off.

I'm sure there are things I do that turn some people off as well. You can't please all the people all the time.

I've learned a lot by reading other people's posts on these forums, and I hope I've helped others with my own contributions.

And I do enjoy a good debate. I learn from them.

But play fair.

And perhaps I'm being a bit too defensive here, but if I write on any subject that doesn't involve MIDI it's OK, but as soon as I mention MIDI people accuse me of advertising. That's not fair, its a cheap shot.

I understand people's anti-spam feelings and I share them. If I came to the forum and only promoted my product, or tried to sell you knock-off Rolex watches, I think you would be justified in your feelings. But when I write about all aspects of musical performance and many aspects of BiaB, and I write about my favorite part of BiaB which is MIDI, please be tolerant. I would be writing about MIDI even if I didn't sell MIDI styles. I love MIDI.

I think MIDI will diminish with amateurs who cannot play a musical instrument, and judging from some of the MIDI files I've seen, that's a good thing. But I don't think MIDI will die with the pros. It's too musical and allows a great deal of personal, musical expression.

And to get back on topic. If you have a good sounding alternative to using karaoke tracks, think about it. You don't have to abandon them, there is more than one way to make music.

Quote:

Mick, don't let it grow so long that you end up talking to yourself!!

musiclover

I do that now!
Sometimes I even answer.
But occasionally I say, "Huh?"

I'll make a couple of comments here.
1.I'm not going to research this but if my memory is correct, When Note's post was pulled some time back it was Peter who provided a post himself stating that it was a new moderator that pulled Note's posts advertising as he/she was unaware that Notes had been given long standing permission to do so.
2. If you are doing covers and it is your goal to do them exactly like the record the only way is with MIDI or play all the parts yourself. Even with MIDI it takes A LOT of work to get right.
My friend still uses MIDI after many years and makes $450/night 8 nights a month.
Check his demos. BVD

Quote:

I make my own tracks using 100% MIDI instruments (synths) and the same lady told us she is going to ask for us to come back again and again. (seehttp://www.nortonmusic.com/backing_tracks.html for how I make and use them).

I can see how everyone got their feathers ruffled, somewhere in allot of your posts there is a dig for Midi, or a sly way to lead them to your site..ie go here to see how I make them...

And tho I like the Notes demos I have heard they still sound mechanical. I use midi a lot, but ONLY for percussion & drums because Addictive Drums, Oddgrooves, and Smartloops have created some great FEELING drum tracks....as for sax-guitar-bass....well, they still sound midi.

I like the Real Tracks & I like the midi, using Reaper and Studio One V2 midi is a simple to edit as the RT audio, so I can sue whatever I am happy wit, but there is a "selling" atmosphere to a lot of your posts Mr. Notes, intentional or not....

Notes,

Quote:

And perhaps I'm being a bit too defensive here, but if I write on any subject that doesn't involve MIDI it's OK, but as soon as I mention MIDI people accuse me of advertising. That's not fair, its a cheap shot.

I agree Notes. It is a cheap shot. That's why I've spoken up in your defense on several recent threads. You do weigh in on numerous topics and I hope you continue to do so.

Maybe some of the negative comments are from those with “music envy” who're jealous of the fact that you're making a living with steady gigs AND you're using BIAB to do it. To add insult to injury, you're supplementing your income by making fake books and styles using BIAB ! How dare you ??? LOL.

Don't let a small handful keep you from participating here. I enjoy your posts. They're always well written and informative.
…...............................................................................

Now, my 2 cents on MIDI vs. RT's.

Why argue about whether MIDI or RT's are better?

The answer to that question is different for each person, … and possibly even for each song or instrument.

Choose MIDI, choose RT's, … or choose both! Or, … here's a novel idea, … play some or all of the backup instruments yourself !

Your music, …... your choice.

A person running a business would be nuts to NOT advertise.

There are many types of advertisements.

These threads are crawled by bots. Those bots are mechanical. Oh Oh.

How often and how much? That's not for me to decide.

I like a good argument. Discussions are what my wife has with me. As in, "we don't need it." I started that argument when I picked it up. I'm also very smart. Smile, and put it back. I might buy that can of maple smoky Halifax brown beans and eat it. When the recycle box goes out there is the moment the eyebrows go up, the glance back down. I often win those.

On topic:

Most Karaoke sucks. My opinion.
Much of Midi sucks. Again see above.
I like/love Realtracks. Again see both above.
Midi, for now, is good at ensuring timing, controlling voices, lights etc.

The product we are discussing is meant to add in a quick band. It is not to replicate a cover. It is not to control lighting. It is not to control a voice box. It is the backup band.

I can see a new direction. Make the assembly graphic oriented. A picture of a guitar, a keyboard, a drum kit etc on stage. Move them off and on. Move over the graphic and get a pull down menu. Use the menu to select a different guitar, eg. acoustic 12 string. A button to make them bigger or smaller. (Loud) As you move them they move in the stereo field. Your timeline is similar with chords and each instrument has plug ins. You wire it. At certain points on your timeline you can insert (F5 eh?) what you want and that happens, volume up here down there etc. Or click on solo and have it be an automated thing where the graphics show guys with bones or sticks etc. You grab him and throw him at a start point, and drag him till he drops.

Intro A/B/C/D markers with places to graphically change the band, someone sits or comes in. Assemble the piece like this later
Intro
A
B
B
A
D
B
B
Ending

you define each part, and can copy a to c and then change it etc.

See, I'm a fan of music.

In the end, the skeleton of what his-self has done, is the remarkable thing. The concept, taking the actual instruments, and doing the assembly underneath is the genius part. So the rest of us, with little exertion, can go somewhere people never even boldly dreamed possible.

What the midi market now needs is the realization that selling is selling, and here's my Ketron, SD99, (that's just the cover changed and a picture in B&W of some guy in black with a sax.) All my styles are optimized to use this piece of gear. There's the rub. Because the argument is there, the whole idea behind it is that someone with good knowledge of how to make styles has tweaked the beachguys1 patched to sound just as close as required so help me Rhonda or whoever.

Thus you order the Ketron for $29 bucks more because it was tested and signed. And with each purchase you get the fabulous BeachHouse boxed styles, with a USB key shaped like a surfboard. Oh and if you buy before...never mind.

So you get the photo, digitally enhanced.

I remain,
not afraid
to call a spade
a Shovel.

Thank you, thank you very much.

musiclover, (if that is your real name!

)

Quote:

The idea of calling everyone who disagrees with him "a cheap shot" is at the very least midly insulting to me anyways!

I didn't call anyone "cheap shots", nor did Notes. But a few are taking "cheap shots" at Bob.

I honestly do believe "music envy" is a factor. Most of us would like to be making a living playing music. We aren't. Shucks, ... finding a steady gig would be nice.

A lot of us would like to find a creative way to supplement our income using BIAB. ... Most of us haven't.

What's worse is that Bob's doing it in Florida at fancy yacht clubs and country clubs and even cruise ships !!! Most of us are happy to get a gig in a smoky bar! Doesn't he realize how cold it is where most of us live!!! Especially where Conley lives ! Hehe.

I suspect that if Bob were unsuccessful in his endeavors with his gigs and business, most here would be wishing him luck. Since he is successful, ... well, ... we already see what happens.
...............................................

For the record, I don't own any of Bob's stuff. I did the same thing a few others mentioned and went to his site and picked out a couple of fake books and several styles to go with them and it was more than I could justify spending.

I'm not defending him because I use his products, ... I'm doing it because I don't like seeing someone picked on when it's unjustified.

"
Re: Second Question [Re: musiclover]
#352789 - Sat Feb 11 2012 03:33 PM Edit
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musiclover, (if that is your real name! )

Quote:
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The idea of calling everyone who disagrees with him "a cheap shot" is at the very least midly insulting to me anyways!

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I didn't call anyone "cheap shots", nor did Notes. But a few are taking "cheap shots" at Bob.

I honestly do believe "music envy" is a factor . Most of us would like to be making a living playing music. We aren't. Shucks, ... finding a steady gig would be nice.

For the record, I don't own any of Bob's stuff. I did the same thing a few others mentioned and went to his site and picked out a couple of fake books and several styles to go with them and it was more than I could justify spending.

I'm not defending him because I use his products, ... I'm doing it because I don't like seeing someone picked on when it's unjustified"

Bobflatpicker,

I have been a forum lurker (more recently a poster) for a long time on here and have watched and read the different threads with interest. I honestly believe that all the posters on here are weill aware of Mr Nortons exceptional musical ability and not as you say "music envy" is a factor. Why should it be? I'm sure that most posters are not within Mr Nortons area and are worried that he is taking away one of thier gigs.

In fact I think all the posters on here are decent upstanding citizens and wouldn't stoop to the level of "music envy" as you suggest.

If I was a third party developer of addons for a software program there is no way I would come on that software's forum and criticise any aspect of that program because I would be wise enough to know that it wouldn't be the right thing to do. It is not fair to the program makers. I would feel like a leech sucking the blood out of the host that is helping to feed me.

As regards Mr Norton I am just fed up with the indirect advertising.

musiclover

musiclover,

Quote:

As regards Mr Norton I am just fed up with the indirect advertising.

Then don't read his threads or posts.

Problem solved.

musiclover,

I think John's already addressed that:

Quote:

1.I'm not going to research this but if my memory is correct, When Note's post was pulled some time back it was Peter who provided a post himself stating that it was a new moderator that pulled Note's posts advertising as he/she was unaware that Notes had been given long standing permission to do so.

All I would say to that Bobflatpicker is if you clearly read posts and more importantly learn to "read between the lines" then what may be said and what may be the true intentions of the poster may not be one and the same thing. (Does not refer to Johns silvertones post)
I have read countless posts on the internet that fall into this catagory.

This is my last world on this thread about this, others who have expressed their opinion deserve to have an inpuut if they so wish.

musiclover

Hmm... yet another NN thread that turns 'destructive' instead of 'constructive' ... WHY, is that exactly ? Can't put my finger on it... definatley not any 'envy' of any sort I don't think. If he didn't sell a product, and was just a guy touting midi ...maybe the sales aspect is the rub with NN threads ? dunno... carry on.

musiclover,

Quote:

All I would say to that Bobflatpicker is if you clearly read posts and more importantly learn to "read between the lines" then what may be said and what may be the true intentions of the poster may not be one and the same thing.

The next time I need help "reading between the lines", I'll contact you.

Superiority, in any aspect, demands ones respect for the position.

Think about that.

There is one issue where you can trust me. I craft off the cuff responses here, and I try and have fun. I call on something, like midi, where I see a fundamental earthquack lurking. Now I've Linuxed with some good guys. And there are parallels. Great midi tweaking, wrestling with a part, to make a machine plop fart like some guy on a sax, is an art. Not one I want to learn.

Not an art as much as it is programming I guess.

So, you want AI, then do what I said. Move icons and make stuff happen. It's the next thing.

Messing with Midi without one of those fancy digital interfaces is nothing but programming. Low level.

We need to move past it.

The tools to play with it will always be part of Open Source.

PGmusic is charting new waters. The midi camp can de-camp. It's not where the market is. The other is. Eventually, 6 years hence, our screaming table aka/ music stand will display All of Me and let us play it for .001 cents per play. Off your pay my friend. Or Pal.

I don't care who says what, not a fiddlers far...

Remember my wife had the casket picked out. I certainly won't lose sleep over this kind of stuff. Ever.

Have fun. I learned that motto here, more than any one other thing.

Try and be mean whilst having fun.

You want me to discuss what's wrong with where? Geez I don't live there. I don't want to.

Lets do a 3 chord version of Abiliene. Mean. I'm going for some H20.

John,

Quote:

Try and be mean whilst having fun.

You should make that part of your signature for the forum.

..."keep your hands and arms inside the car at all times until the ride comes to a full and complete stop" ...

Quote:

Superiority, in any aspect, demands ones respect for the position.

Think about that.

PGmusic is charting new waters. The midi camp can de-camp. It's not where the market is.

If that is not where the market is why is PGMusic asking for suggestions on improving the midi side of BiaB? Wouldn’t that be a big waste of money for them? Apparently not!

Use the search engine of your choice and type in midi. You will find a ton of midi venders, hardware and software. I would bet that Native Instruments market share is greater than PGMusics. I’d bet some other big midi players also have very large market share.

I respect your opinions about midi. I just wish you would respect others opinions about midi.

You are correct in that PGMusic is charting new waters, but they always have charted new waters. There still is no competition for them and I doubt there ever will be.

PS – I wish you would stop putting gas on the fire

The "Other" Bob, (aka 90 dB),

I wasn't being "mean" by using the term "music envy". I was being honest. That's often misinterpreted as being "mean".

I also occasionally use sarcasm to make a point. Unfortunately, that can also be mistaken for "mean".

If you're looking for "mean", then consider the unjustified barbs thrown at Notes Norton anytime he mentions MIDI.

Quote:

there are some of us here who have actually played at 'fancy yacht clubs', etc. No big deal - just another gig for a bunch of well-heeled drunks.

The "fancy yacht club" comment was a joke directed at Notes. For lessons on "reading between the lines", ... contact musiclover.

90 dB,

Quote:

'music envy'? Perhaps in your case

Guilty as charged. Fortunately, my case of "music envy" isn't manifesting itself as ill feelings towards Notes Norton.

Nor ill feelings toward you, even though you referred to me as a "petulant child" . But you might wanna check the mirror when you say this about a yacht club gig:

Quote:

No big deal - just another gig for a bunch of well-heeled drunks.

Sounds like fun to me!

Well Whitney Huston beat me to the endgame. But we both are going.

I guess I should put up my pic again posed in front of a burning car after I showed how to make a gas boom with a pickle jar, gas and det cord. LOL.

Each time your heart beats it's one less you get. Is the next one last?

Wheee !!...

RIP Witney Houston. Great talent lost.

Quote:

..."keep your hands and arms inside the car at all times until the ride comes to a full and complete stop" ...

music related detour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53XyCbIJGKY

"Come on people now , smile on your brother
Everybody get together
Try to love one another right now..."

Yeah... Peace and Love 'bro ! It's the 60's all over again ...yikes !

..and Rodney King too.. "Can't we all just get along ?"

My comments only on the phenomenom of it all ! Trying to figure it all out (not too hard though. Not worth figuring out, really)

Quote:

The "Other" Bob

Hey!! I'm the other Bob around here. Jeesh, I get busy for two days and somebody's jackin my name...

I know, lets draw numbers, Bob1, Bob2, Bob3 etc. I'll bet there's at least 10 of us. Then we can put all our posts in some sort of internet randomizer and post them under different numbers. And whatever post goes under your real number, you've gotta defend it. Whaddya think of that?? Hmmm, just think I could give someone totally unrelated to this thread a real nasty blast and if you drew that number, it's like a two headed baby, you've gotta love it.

And, Flatpicker Bob was not in any way being mean. You want mean, sarcastic, be thrown off the forum, get me going. I've had to suddenly shut down a train of posts because I was scaring myself.

Some haven't been around this forum long enough to understand Notes position around here. Yes he's been blessed by PG himself and aside from some implied advertising he's posted some of the very best tutorials explaining in great detail exactly how Biab works and how he creates those excellent styles of his. Why would he do that, give away all his secrets like that you ask? Because it took years of study and experimentation to develop what he does and it's definitely not worth it for most of us to try to duplicate that. But some like to get their hands dirty so he's posted exact instruction how to create your very own personalized styles. I think that alone validates his being here.

Bob1, er maybe it's Bob2, oh crap what number am I anyway?

jazzmammal,

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Flatpicker Bob was not in any way being mean.

I appreciate you saying that. I thought I was being nice. ... Restrained even!!! LOL.

Quote:

Some haven't been around this forum long enough to understand Notes position around here. Yes he's been blessed by PG himself and aside from some implied advertising he's posted some of the very best tutorials explaining in great detail exactly how Biab works and how he creates those excellent styles of his.

Well said. I've learned a lot from Notes posts and threads. I hope he doesn't get discouraged by a handful of people who don't realize he's sharing what he's learned from the school of hard knocks. A lot of people would keep it to themselves.

Now for the Bob1, Bob2, etc. ... We'll have to figure that one out later.

Man, this is getting tedious.

“The "Other" Bob, (aka 90 dB), I wasn't being "mean" by using the term "music envy". I was being honest. That's often misinterpreted as being "mean". I also occasionally use sarcasm to make a point. Unfortunately, that can also be mistaken for "mean". If you're looking for "mean", then consider the unjustified barbs thrown at Notes Norton anytime he mentions MIDI.”

Reading comprehension problem, Bob? I never used the word 'mean', while you use it here four times to ostensibly quote me. The term I used was 'nasty'. Reading your subsequent posts, I still believe the term is apropos.

If you re-read my original post, it was not an an 'unjustified barb', but rather my opinion on MIDI vs. Samples. Not that I have to “justify” my comments to you, but I have actually done the same kind of act as Notes for over 30 years (20 in the same market). If that doesn't give me a right to an opinion, I would ask what background you have to deny my right to express it.

Conversely, your original post:

“PRearden, Don't you think you're a little new here to be calling out one of the oldest forum members? If I recall correctly, aren't you the one who posted a "fake" song on Users Showcase and then made fun of those who commented? -------------------- Bob”

Aside from the overtly nasty tone, I think that this sentiment is very revealing. It has even been repeated by other members in this thread. If you are 'new here', your opinion should be discounted? A new member cannot debate 'one of the oldest' forum members? Is there a set post count at which a member is fully “vested”, or is it an arbitrary number subject to your whim?

In future I will submit my opinions for your approval prior to posting them. (Now that's sarcasm).

Regards,

Bob # 14

There's an easy solution to this whole argument / discussion guys.
Bottom line, live and let live.
Try it, it actually might work.

Tim

Quote:

There's an easy solution to this whole argument / discussion guys.
Bottom line, live and let live.
Try it, it actually might work.

Tim

I don't know if you've been here long enough to say something like that, Tim.

Regards,

Bob # 1745

Well bob maybe, maybe not, but it's still true.
so exactly how long do you have to be here before you can express an opinion?

Tim

Quote:

... so exactly how long do you have to be here before you can express an opinion?

if you had BIAB for DOS, you've been here long enough.

LOL. Then I definitely qualify.

Oh the good old dos days and BIAb.
In some ways I thought BIAb ran better in DOS then in Windows.

Tim\

Ha, ha -- I had BIAB for DOS, but I never used it. The first version I tried to use was BIAB for windows 3.1 (is that the right version?). But I never really liked it, because it sounded so "midi" (which ties back nicely into some of this thread at least).

Quote:

Aside from the overtly nasty tone, I think that this sentiment is very revealing. It has even been repeated by other members in this thread. If you are 'new here', your opinion should be discounted? A new member cannot debate 'one of the oldest' forum members? Is there a set post count at which a member is fully “vested”, or is it an arbitrary number subject to your whim?

In future I will submit my opinions for your approval prior to posting them. (Now that's sarcasm).

You're missing out one very important point guys, the avatar that you use, that has to be run past Bobcflatpicker as well

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.p...true#Post348389

martin

Yeah I agree, it didn't sound that great.
I think there was only 24 styles, but I thought the concept of the software was ahead of it's time so stuck with it.
I believe Pg was one of the first to come up with this idea for the PC.
Later I used a program called Jammer which was similar, but I liked bIAB better.

Tim

Quote:

Well bob maybe, maybe not, but it's still true.
so exactly how long do you have to be here before you can express an opinion?

Tim

Of course everybody gets to express his/her opinion as a forum member... there is no seniority system here. I think the point being made (and good communication seeks to answer the true intent of a post rather than a misinterpreted or spun version of it)... the point being made is that a very short view of a situation can lead to a distorted understanding of the big picture.

Have you ever taken a video of yourself and stopped it randomly on one frame? Chances are that the one transitional frame is not flattering... eyes may be halfway between blinks or mouth may be contorted forming a word...

The same is true in forum discussion. A long history of someone's helpfulness and goodwill makes it easier to identify when the outward appearance of one awkward thread is not consistent with who you know that person to be.

Without that history, a kneejerk response is much more likely, and IMO, we're seeing some of that here.

I think the negative reactions of those who are seeing only what's being said at the moment should be useful to the old timers who may have gotten used to taking liberties without being challenged.

But the response of the long term forum members is also useful because it speaks from a broader perspective.

How we respond to all of this depends on whether we want to fight or fit in. Everybody gets to make that call for himself.

Quote:

Quote:

The "Other" Bob

Hey!! I'm the other Bob around here. Jeesh, I get busy for two days and somebody's jackin my name...

I know, lets draw numbers, Bob1, Bob2, Bob3 etc. I'll bet there's at least 10 of us.<...>

(thanks for the kind words, Bob and Bob).

That's how I started using the nickname "Notes".

Long before we had these forums on the web, we conversed via usenet/newsgroups - completely text based part of the Internet. Modems were dial up and slooooow back then, so typing as few characters as possible was helpful. I was on an alt.saxophone forum and there were a number of Bobs -- and more than one Bob Norton (Imagine that!)

My sister is a CPA and used to be in business with another accountant who had nicknames for everybody. He called me "Notes".

So in order not to type, "Bob Norton from Florida" to distinguish me from the other Bob Norton, I just adopted "Notes" for on-line purposes. And it stuck.

And Kevin, I remember BiaB for DOS - I hated DOS and made most of my styles on the Atari/ST at the time. Peter Gannon offered to help me transfer them to the PC so I bought the DOS 5/Win 3.1 computer and would transfer them to the PC. Then when BiaB came out for Windows, I started doing everything on the PC and transferring them to the Atari and Mac.

BiaB has come a long way from those early days. Feature after feature have been added, making it quite a complex program. I don't use every feature, I don't use the Real Tracks, I don't use the Soloist, I don't use the Melodist, I don't use the Drum Window, I don't use the Notation (I have Encore) but I do work on the Notation screen a bit, and there are many others I don't use. But that's no problem, they are there for others to enjoy.

I do talk about the features I use and love.

BiaB rules because of the hard work, dedication, insight, and sheer genius of Peter Gannon and crew. Whether you use the features I use or not, I hope you enjoy the product.

And I always welcome opposing viewpoints, that's what debates are all about. I'll put up arguments to support my viewpoint, you put arguments to support your viewpoint, and we may not convert each other, on the other hand, we might also learn something.

But let's leave personal attacks and cheap shots out of debates. They take the fun out of a debate.

Everything is 'engineering'. There are trade-offs to be made. RTs give you more realistic tone, MIDI tracks give you more editing power for personal expression. Karaoke tracks give you a 'like the record' backing track but they often have singers who aren't in your duo in the background and those fade out endings (something I never do live). Compressors can make your tracks sound louder, but they minimize the dynamic expression of the music. And it's not only in music. If you want great gas mileage, you have to sacrifice size, performance or both. Solar electricity is free but it doesn't work well at night. Cell phones are convenient but tend to work not as well inside most houses.

All the trade-offs give us a chance to debate things and help each other out with the benefit of our experience.

The negative posts here really weren't all that bad, I've had worse

and I intend to remain a member of this community for a long time. I will debate the benefits of MIDI until something better comes along, but that doesn't mean I'm telling you that your way is wrong. There is more than one right way to make music. I also tout the benefits of MIDI on sites that have nothing to do with BiaB so just because I sell BiaB products, I don't think I'm being out of line to promote the kind of music I'm passionate about making. Perhaps it will help someone who has less experience than I do.

I remember a long time ago, I was playing sax in a band and I asked a sax player in another band what a sequence was. He explained it to me and turned me on to a magazine called Electronics Musician. Way before that, I was 18 years old playing in a band in a club that had two bands - the white band and the black band. When we played our break song the other band would come up and as one person picked up his instrument, the guy in the other band would stop. Me? I walked across the stage and sat in with the black band. The sax player (I wish I could remember his name) was old and grey haired (I'm getting there now) and he showed me a number of sax tips, including how to growl into the saxophone. I asked him "How to you get that sound?" and he was kind enough to show me.

That's the kind of musician I want to be. The kind who helps another with the benefit of my experience. The guys who showed me stuff are further along the road than I am so there isn't much I can show them to return their kindness, so the way to honor their generosity is to share my experience with others who haven't walked the same path as I for as long as I have.

But if you think karaoke tracks and stringing loops together in a DAW are the best way for you to make music, go for it. There is more than one way to make music. If we compete for a gig, I hope my way wins.

I worked 6 gigs this week and got rained out on the 7th (it was outdoors with a rain date in a couple of weeks). Life is good. I do what I love and get paid for it.

If it was easy, anyone could do it, and people wouldn't pay me to have so much fun!!!

I think there's another interpretation to "Notes"' story that's got nothing to do with the quality of backing tracks.

The perception of "karaoke" is that anyone can get a backing track. No "musician" skill required.

With MIDI, even though it may not be "live", the assumption is that the musician probably created the sequence himself. That is, the only reason they are using MIDI is because they can't clone themselves.

If there are instruments being played live, the assumption is that they're really being played, and not just mimed. Not always true, but people put more value on that, and react negatively when they think they've been "fooled" by a performer.

So I wonder if the initial reaction that "Notes" got had to do with perceived value of the performer's skill, and little to do with the "quality" of the backing tracks.

"And Kevin, I remember BiaB for DOS - I hated DOS."
Yeah I think most people did.
As for me I loved DOS, being blind that operating system worked better for me then Windows does.
Back then my speech software would work with 95 percent of the programs out there.
Now days a lot of the time I have to tweak my speech package to work with new software I install.
Some times that works great and other times I have to settle for less then good results.
Not really complaining just noting the irony.
And like you said there's a trade off. I may not be able to use every program out there because of the graphical interface, but I can do so much more with the computer then was possible back in the DOSS days.
Hell I'm just thankful I can use the computer at all.

Tim

Hi Folks,

I was just browsing the Norton music site and I didn't realise that Mr Norton has such a high profile,

From his site,

"Bob's contributions to contemporary American music are recognized by his inclusion in the Marquis Publications' Who's Who in the South and Southwest (1993 to present) Who's Who in America (1996 to present), Who's Who in Entertainment, and Who's Who in the World (1996 to present). Bob is also included in the International Biographical Centre of Cambridge England's Men Of Achievement publication, their Dictionary of International Biography, Edition XXIII, and Outstanding People of the 20th Century. In addition to all this, he will be featured in the next edition of International Who's Who of Information Technology and Stratmore's Who's Who"

I think that we are indeed privileged to have Mr Norton among our ranks and He does do excellent band in a box disks.

Regards
Jan

Hmmm a fair amount of nonsense already on this thread.

Let me add some of my own!

Is Bob ‘Notes’ Norton generally ‘a good thing’ or ‘a bad thing’?
The former. Yes, he has been known to use this site to promote his own products but he has also provided reams of useful information quite unrelated to music software.

Why do I find myself ‘still’ using MIDI rather than Real Tracks?
- because this is what I learnt with originally and it stuck
- because I have neither the time nor the finances to upgrade my computer equipment
-because (unlike some of my fellow forum members) I have a full time job and a band and a family to take care of (have to revise the order there for the final version of this post!) before I even boot up my home music station. I have a time budget of zero hours, zero minutes for choosing, installing and configuring an alternative to my MIDI-based system.
- because I like the fact that I can save a MIDI track in a few seconds and not have my PC sound like its about to take off.
- because if it ain’t broke…

What is karaoke?
To the general member of an audience, non initiated in things musical and DAW-related, there is a vague possibility that he/she will distinguish between two things:
- (1) music which is being played entirely live, in real time, by musicians with instruments who are actually present
- (2) music – however it has been generated – which has somehow been recorded before the performance and is being played back.

Most will not be all that bothered whether they are being presented with (1) or (2). None (as in not one) will either know about or be interested in the difference between MIDI-generated backing tracks vs audio loop generated backing tracks.

Marc

Some very good points there, the average lay person who knows virtually nothing about music who see a duo on stage will probably think they are playing everything live, whereas in fact quite a bit of the performance will be backing tracks, and couldn't care a rats ass as long as they are having a good time, and the music sounds reasonably ok.

axey

Quote:

Most will not be all that bothered whether they are being presented with (1) or (2).

According to this single point of anecdotal evidence, wealthy yacht-owning older folk in one particular spot of Florida do.

Wow. Who's who? Who knew? Horton? He heard a who. Boo hoo. I'm not in the who's who. I figured out most of the who's on our county list were as dead as my grandad. I'll be there soon. Dead that is, not on the who's who.

https://cgi.marquiswhoswho.com/OnDemand/Default.aspx?last_name=norton&first_name=bob

Marquis Who's Who On Demand
Biographies, when you need them.
First Name: Bob
Last Name: Norton

To view a sample biography, click here.

Sorry, your search did not match any Profiles. Make sure all words are spelled correctly.

https://cgi.marquiswhoswho.com/OnDemand/Default.aspx?last_name=Norton&first_name=Robert

6th one down ?

Good thing it didn't say Robert Howard Norton (Deceased).
Then where would this thred be. Lol.

Tim

Or is it? http://www.mapsweb.org/user/75

The one I'm happiest with is the Who's Who of Entertainment.

I don't know who nominated me for that, or for that matter any of them. But I'm flattered.

I bought the Who's Who in Entertainment and Who's Who in America books the first year I was included, but I haven't done so since. They just sit on my bookshelf gathering dust.

I know that a listing in Who's Who and a dollar will buy a cup of coffee, but I'm happy to be in there anyway.

Hey Mitch, yes, that's me, 6th one down. Robert Howard Norton, and no I'm not deceased yet -- I don't think. If I am, please let me know.

---------

And I do think the public perception of doing karaoke tracks is that they sound too real, and therefore the musician(s) must not be playing them, while the MIDI tracks don't sound exactly like the recording, same arrangement but different voices, so the musicians must be playing them.

Other than the "editability" (is that a real word) of MIDI tracks, I think the fact that they do not sound quite like a recording is a big plus for gigging musicians.

Of course, that's my opinion and YMMV.

---------

I can see why you liked DOS, Tim, but for a person with typos built into his fingers, it was frustrating (I even have Type O blood <grin>)

I played with a blind pianist/singer in the 70s. He went back to his native country, France, and became a big star. His name is Gilbert Montagne. We still keep in touch every few years.

My favorite Gilbert story. We got a gig in a bar in West Palm Beach, Florida and the daytime crowd was full of rednecks, country music on the Juke Box, fringe on their shirts, and big hats. Anyway, we go walking in. Gilbert is French and carries a shoulder bag (man - purse), he had long hair back when country folks didn't, wore sunglasses picked out by his wife (they came to points like a Far Side cartoon), and we walked in arm in arm because of course he couldn't see. The rednecks thought we were gay and wanted to beat us up. It took a lot of fast talking to convince them that Gilbert was both French and Blind and we didn't have a thing for each other. It all ended well. The rednecks went home at about 7 and the night crowd came in. Next day the rednecks said "Hi" to us and joked around with us as we walked in. All is well that ends well.

I have a night off today, and back to gigging tomorrow. I love gigging, but a day of rest is good, too.

We have a Marti Gras party this Saturday, so I'm learning a few more New Orleans songs. I just sequenced a Fats Domino treatment of "Jambalaya", a Dixieland arrangement of "When The Saints..." and next comes "Don't Mess With My Toot Toot." I'll use BiaB and MIDI styles as the core of each of these sequences. I used BiaB's harmony feature for the horn lines on "Jambalaya". The harmony feature is a real time saver. Play in the top note and let BiaB do all the 'mule work'. That's another feature I just love about BiaB.

Notes

Quote:

.... the MIDI tracks don't sound exactly like the recording, same arrangement but different voices, so the musicians must be playing them.

If this is the issue Bob, I don't think it would be that difficult - for most reasonably well known tunes -
to find a karaoke version on the www that does not sound like exactly like the original.

Deezer, for example has upwards of 30 karaoke versions of Jambalaya.
After that, we all know how to use audio editor software.

Of course I am not condoning this or any other illegal practice.
Neither do I do it myself. I'm just saying it could be done.

Marc