Hey before I hit the road for a while, I thought I would point out something I have noticed about the forum. About 90 percent of the people who post stuff and receive comments also leave comments and listen to the people who listen to their music.

However, there seems to be a very thin minority of some posters who are posting a lot stuff but don't seem to get around to responding very much to those who are their listeners, if you look at the statistics.

That might not be the best of forum etiquette in the best of all possible worlds, and I am not saying this with any criticism, just an observation, as I said, in case it is helpful in any way.

Great stuff out there people.

Admitting my ignorance of any statistic on this subject and based on my daily reading here in the forums, I would have guessed there's actually a thicker minority that would fit into your observation.

Personally, I've listened to a great deal of submissions in the User Showcase but very rarely comment for a few reasons.

But, even though I do have (4) BIAB tunes finished up since I got the program (about 2+ years ago) I've never been in the habit of overtly asking anyone to listen to my material....maybe I'm terrified of the truth.

If someone does, I'm grateful...good comments or unfavorable...they still took the time to listen.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I agree...if someone is continually posting their songs and soliciting listens (or honest comments) then it seems fair to expect them to listen to others consistently and comment also.

It'll be curious to hear what others think of your 'observation'.

Carry on...

David, if 90 percent of those posting songs are also listening/commenting that would seem to me to be pretty good; I would have thought something less than that! I mostly use the forums for learning and entertainment. I have listened to a few songs here just to get a feel for what people are doing with BIAB but I have never posted any of my own stuff here.

Like John, I've never posted any of my recordings in the forum. There is a certain amount of self enforcement on the User Forum in that those who post without commenting on others posts or upload too often get chastised. The only motivation I would have to post my own work would be as an educational tool, and there is more than enough available for that purpose without me jumping in.

David,

Don't overlook the fact that PMs are also used, especially between friends. I am delinquent in responding but I often listen. If something is especially noteworthy, I try to post an encouraging comment. I don't think it's encouraging to post negative comments. I always try to be positive.

Don

I don't post very often on any of the forums or at all on the user songs forum. I am more of a lurker.

I do read and listen to some of the songs. Usually I feel as its the same people who post songs that they have got so familiar with each other, that they are afraid to give an honest assessment, and words like, Wow what a performance, a keeper for sure, professional all round, another masterpiece, You have surpassed yourself this time, constantly patting each other on the back.

Nothing wrong in that, we all like to get our ego boosted, and to be encouraged, but maybe not the best way to get a true assessment of a song.

There is some outstanding songs from the users but because people are reluctant to separate the wood from the trees, only makes the forum of less value I feel.

Of course this is my own humble opinion, and as it seems to be working well in the song forum, long may it continue.

Axey

I have posted a couple of songs. My hope was to get confirmation that I was on the right path to improved music. As a rank rookie to BB or RB, I value the opinions of more experienced people.

While I appreciate hearing nice words, that is not exactly what I am after. To form a good knife, one must endure the heat of the crucible. I am good with that.

Now, I will not voice an opinion on the work of others for a while. The reason is simple. I am not yet qualified to do so. Meanwhile I continue to put one foot in front of the other, always working to attain the elusive goal of a professional sounding product.

this is a true observation, but it's worth pointing out that the user showcase is first and foremost a showcase for the products made by PGMusic, and its function is to make visitors want what the people posting songs have.

If criticism abounded here (as it does on many song writing forums) then it would create a negative impression in the minds of many potential customers, and that would do a disservice to the good people at PGMusic, and to their products.


There are plenty of song writing forums where people who want honest critique can get it. Many of the people who post songs here also post in those forums, so they aren't looking for pats on the back.. they love to write songs and share them

Plus, over time, people who share a passion and an involvement in any community (even online forums) tend to become friends. Therefore, they respond as to friends.

Having talked about this very thing with many of the people who post on the showcase, it is my belief that people only say what they truly believe. They may filter out the negative stuff for the sake of kindness... but whatever they DO say is sincere.

regarding the original observation about etiquette:


(If you want reviews for your songs, then take time to review other peoples' songs)



(Whatever kind of reviews you give will tend to come back to you. Negative reviews lead to negative reviews of your songs. Short reviews of other peoples' songs lead to short reviews of your songs. Well considered and articulate reviews lead to more of the same)



(Rewarding those who don't review other peoples' songs by reviewing theirs reinforces the behavior of posting but not reviewing.

Likewise, once it becomes obvious that the path to getting feedback involves GIVING feedback, the problem takes care of itself, without need for confrontation or chiding or any kind of active intervention at all. )

It has been my experience that people don't really want attaboys... what they want is a solid description of what you heard in their song. I never EVER want to hear a comment like "sounds great!" because that doesn't tell me anything at all, and it strikes me as being a bit patronizing.

But to hear something like "I liked the way the strings entered the song at 2:03... it ramped up the emotion ..." such comments are really useful indicators of how my creative decisions impacted the listening experience

(standard disclaimer: my 2 cents)

That's a very good reminder regarding the actual purpose of the User Showcase....something that is not generally at the forefront of my thinking when checking out User Showcase songs.
PG makes an amazing product(s) and they seem to be a great team also.
I'm very pleased with my entry into the BIAB fold (BIAB 2015 UltraPlusPak)

Back to it....

George,

I'm with you completely. I don't feel qualified to critique others knowing the fabulous talent on these PG Forums. Perhaps that accounts for a lot of "praise" comments.

I enjoy reading that someone enjoys my efforts but I can read insincerity at 100 miles. Most people and dogs can.

I especially enjoy comments from the more professionally experienced folks here because they have survived the bruises associated with music and now have both canoe paddles in the water.

As Mac would say: YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)

“...it's worth pointing out that the user showcase is first and foremost a showcase for the products made by PGMusic, and its function is to make visitors want what the people posting songs have.”


Roger that. Prospective customers can hear the tremendous scope of the programs, from Folk to Rock and Country and Jazz; even a bit of Ragtime. It's not a songwriting forum; it's a software forum.

As for comments/reviews/critiques, I have personally never been comfortable critiquing other people's work. If I were a platinum-selling writer I might....but probably still not. Who am I to tell you to lose a bridge or re-write a verse?

I try to listen and comment when I can say something positive, but critique? Nope.



Regards,

Bob

Don't be so harsh. Critique itself is neither postive nor negative. Critique is what you make it to be. Even a simple "I didn't know that you're that good." is critique.

And by the way: Even if you say "That is bad." you just do express your opinion. Your opinion is always right. But the addressee doesn't have to accept it. (He or she also should not argue about it.)

Critique is a Latin based word expressing the English "feedback".
It is given for an incident in the past.
It is given in the present.
It is given with the hope to enhance [the receiver's] behavior in the future.

So if you have to express a perceived negative critique, by all means reason it. The above "That is bad" is bad critique-behavior. Phrase it so that the recipient of your opinion can understand why this is your opinion and what you think could be done to improve. Maybe it is your reasoning that leads to the road to perfection.

I don't think that was 'harsh'. Must be the language barrier.

As is so often the case... this thread is getting way off track from what David was stating in his original post (my opinion, of course).

It has transmutated into "should we be critiquing other people's work?" when all he was saying was "Why don't you guys who dump your songs in the Showcase PARTICIPATE????"

I agree that the Showcase should be focused on What Is Possible Using Band-In-A-Box. Songs in the Showcase (in particular, Steve Young's - Steve..where are you?) convinced me to buy BIAB. Over the last few years, the variety and quality of Showcase songs has expanded greatly. Hopefully, that has translated in sales of the product. The more sales, the more solid PGMusic, and the more likely that we will continue to get incredible new features, upgrades, and RealTracks....

It is time consuming to listen to all the songs that get posted. But it is as much a social network as Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, LinkedIn are... and much more personal and satisfying...

So, David's "question" is directed to those who simply dump their songs (constantly) expecting some attention, when they are not willing to put in the time required to pay attention to the other members of the community - who they expect to support them... pretty simple question....

If you take, you ought to give.

It takes a village...

This is an interesting thread and has got me thinking over the last two days. What I am going to say here is based on my own personal situation but it may be of use to others who are in a similar position.

My musical activity has recently been curtailed. I went back to work mornings only. This was for a number of reasons but the main one was that I like the financial freedom that working for a salary brings me. I like the “thud” (as my friend who is a free-lance photographer would say) that comes from a monthly salary landing in my bank account every month. It brings me the freedom to pursue my other interests such as sailing, skiing and traveling to Band-in-a-Box meet-ups in America! That is not the topic under discussion here but is related.

Since starting work again, I have less time to devote to music. I have to decide how I am going to best spend my limited time. I am spending a quite a bit time on other social networks as well as doing live steaming and writing and recording new material. I still LOVE Band-in-a-Box and use it nearly every-day of my life. However, I feel lately that I am one of those people who is “dumping” my songs on the user forum and not commenting on other songs as I used to do. So my quandary is whether to post my new songs to the user forum at all if I am not going to make the time to listen and comment on others contributions?

I suppose it comes down to the purpose of the user forum. Is the purpose of the user showcase so that we, as users of Band-in-a-Box, can share what we produce using this amazing software (as was mentioned earlier in this thread) and from this PG Music can get new users excited about the product OR is it another social network (as was also mentioned earlier in this post)?

If it is the former, then posting songs and not commenting on others would seem “normal” while if it is the latter then this is “abnormal”. If it is the latter then whether you use the user show case as a social network will surely depend on your own personal musical goals. I am finding that the effort I am putting into other social networks where consumers of music (rather than producers of music) hang out is bearing some fruit towards my own personal goals.

All that said, this community has helped me so much over the last three years that I don’t want to lose that. But, is the Off-topic forum is a better place for people like me to hang out and not share the new stuff I am writing and recording?

I don't post songs and seldom listen to others. Please don't misunderstand, it's not because I am not interested in the music made by my forum friends, it's because my Internet connection is too slow.

I live about 3 miles from the end of the fiber optics cable which makes the quickest I can get is DSL-Light, and by the time it gets here it's full of errors. So the buffering can take what is seemingly forever. I get too impatient to sit there and wait for the buffering, hear 7 or 8 bars then have it buffer some more for perhaps 15 seconds.

It's the price I pay for living in paradise.

Most people around her use Cable TV, but I haven't watched TV at all since 1985, and they won't let me have Cable Internet without Cable TV. I refuse to pay an additional $50/month for something I will get absolutely no use from. Plus, if my neighbors are telling the truth, it goes down a lot. It's fast while it's up, but the rain seems to be its enemy.

I gigged on cruise ships for 3 years in the late 1980s and got out of the habit of watching TV (they didn't have TV on the ships then). When I got back on land, I hooked the cable back up but in a few months I found I wasn't watching it, so I had them disconnect it.

I found I'd rather do things myself than live my life vicariously by watching actors pretending to do things.

Full disclosure, I have the minimum Netflix DVD in the mail account, so I watch about two rented movies per month, and that's the only time the TV gets turned on.

So with my slow Internet connection and my refusal to pay $600/year additional for the TV which I won't watch, I am not able to enjoy the music of my Internet friends.

But I live with a lagoon to the east, a nature preserve to the west, and my half acre lot is one of the smallest around, most others are 50-100 acres. Before zoning some guy divided half of his 56 acre lot and built a cottage per year on the other half. I was lucky enough to find this one when I was looking to buy a house. It's paid for now and worth about 4 times more than I paid for it, of course with mortgage interest, it means I've about broken even

So please don't be offended if I don't listen.

Insights and incites by Notes

Some forums sites require you to comment on a certain number of other folks music before you can post....

5 or 10 listens with comments on each to one post of a song.

Fortunately, PG doesn't have such arcane rules.... so the folks here should be kind enough to comment on others music.

You don't have to be a platinum writer/producer to say simply that you liked the song and why you liked it or why you didn't. If you want to critique, try to explain your commentary as best you can. Although I can certainly see why folks might not want to critique others music..... quite a few people don't take crits very well..... but that's beside the point. And yeah, I know my crits and comments have at times, ruffled a few feathers around the User Showcase..... my apologies... uhhhhh...... no, not really. None of my comments are ever intended as a personal slam. They are my personal opinion and if they rub you the wrong way, maybe you should see if they are valid in even the most remote way.

Make the effort to listen and comment.... that's the point of this post and the forum. I can listen to every song in the forum but if I don't comment, the writers never know it. This is especially important to the new guys and gals coming in. Try not to make your first appearance in the forum as a song post and then disappear until the next song you post..... become part of the family and people will respond to your music better.

By being a part of the songs forum, participating in the posting of songs as well as the commentary and critiques on the song, you will learn a lot. You have the opportunity to ask questions for the ones who are posting radio ready music.... "Hey man, how did you do that thing right there in that song?" ... "What's your signal chain on the guitar?"..... "What reverb are you using on the BGV?".....and you will generally get an answer.

There's a whole lot of really good experience residing here in the PG forums.... but unless you ask, you can not learn. So comment..... let the posters of the songs know you're here, and share in the knowledge.


( and yes, I'm as guilty as anyone about not commenting on every song, so drag me over the coals if you wish )

I can't speak for everybody, but here's my take on your situation, Josie: You've already shown yourself to be a participant and a team player. I doubt that anybody who has a life can find time to comment on everything. The objection is toward people who dump & run consistently.

If we look at the showcase as being an ad for BIAB, then we would want lots of participation... (whether people comment or not)

True, a culture of participation and encouragement has evolved on the forum, and I like that a lot. I hope it continues.

But the ad value of posts far outweighs the question of whether the poster replied to our songs.

For example, Recently TexasHeartRush has posted some demos that I think really showcase the capabilities of PGMusic products quite well... but he tends not to review other peoples' songs.

If I were in PGMusic's shoes, I'd want to see lots of posts like his. I certainly would NOT want to discourage him in any way from posting his work to the showcase!


The reviews are for OUR benefit, not for PGMusic's.

I don't listen and review as many songs as I would like due to two main reasons.

One reason is that the submitted songs are like rabbits in that I come back a day later and there are 20 more! That is not a bad thing. Also the musicianship, song writers' talents, mixing etc are much better today than a few years ago. I know that I have learned a lot from both the forums and the critiquing of my songs; please continue as I need all the help I can get!

Second is that I have been extremely busy lately (what else is new). This leaves little time for music so I work on my songs (it takes me quite awhile to get one down) instead of listening. I probably should change that and listen more.

No excuses just my explanation.

One would think that living in a nursing home would mean that I have time on my hands. Not true at all.

The staff has rigid routines that take priority over my music. My new roommate hates music so that has virtually ended my joy.

a couple of other thoughts...

1) Regarding critiques, to me it seems like a bad idea in a forum like this where you do not know the other people nor do you know what their level of proficiency is nor their preferences in music, etc. maybe they don't care for your genre or maybe they are not qualified to critique your music! I guess my advice would be for each poster to include a small statement, like a sig, where you state specifically what you'd like feedback on (if any).

2) Regarding those who post and do not comment on the songs of others, I would have said that is not cool but then I read where several of you pointed out that one primary role of the User Showcase is to promote what can be accomplished with PG products. With that in mind EVERYONE should be encouraged to post their creations regardless of whether or not they ever comment on anyone else's songs!

Ditto re the original post and in particular the comments of Pat, floyd and Bob.

It's an international music forum and the common thread is the use of BiaB products. There some great songwriters, instrumentalists and vocalists on the forum and often their sheer creativity in the use of RT's and RD's results in us listening to a genre that we would heretofore never paid much attention to.

FWIW, we try to respond thoughtfully to new posters; however, if after that post they have not taken the time to respond to even one other member's efforts we shy away from them. Why? If you are an active member there are plenty of other active member's posts to respond to. BTW. we don't see the forum as a mutual admiration society as some allude to...at least not to the extent that it's problematical

It is a rich diverse community and within it we have made many friends -- and not necessarily of the typical facebook ilk Friends who have offered us tremendous support over the last four years. The support of them and PG Music renewed our interest in making music after a near decade long sabbatical.

We can only reinforce David's thoughts in the OP and also mention that a quick route into the community for new folks is to listen around, find something you like, comment on it and remember in your posts to list the details of the PG Music products you used in the production. Oh, and try to be patient enough to wait until your song "runs its course" before posting another.

All is good....

J&B

This has been a most interesting discussion to follow and may well achieve its aims.

Maybe the "Dumpers" will read this thread, maybe just maybe they will change their ways, maybe they will feel guilty and such will be the deep feeling of guilt that they won't post any more songs on the showcase at all.

Job done Congratulations to all.

But hold one a sec, I have noticed that certain users only really post in the showcase and don't really frequent any of the other forums at all much, such as the off-topic.

Oh My, If they do start a thread in future in the off-topic forum, and get some replies, but don't reply to others on the off-topic, I wonder how would they feel, if the regular users of the off-topic forum accused them of "Dumping"

Labelling some one is not something I like to do.

Goes on every day though in every aspect of life.

Martin57

Thanks for this Pat. I appreciate it. However, I am not specifically talking about me here. I am talking about other people who may be in the same boat as me but may not have participated much in the past.

I think, your example of TexasHeartRush is a great one. I could bet that he has chosen to spend his time practicing that guitar to hone his craft rather than participating on the forum. His progress shows. I think I read a while back that it took him a year of solid focus and practice to get where he was. If I can remember rightly he practiced to a set schedule everyday (was it three hours?) with his cell phone timer going. He is attempting to get to that magical 10,000 hour mark. I, for one, am very pleased and interested to see new post from him to the user forum, regardless of whether he listens to mine or anybody else’s songs on the forum.

I think J *3 is right when he says that everybody should be encouraged to post their work to the forum, even if they have never commented on other people’s work. It is their choice. Listening to other people’s work undoubtedly helps you grow as recording artist, songwriter and arranger, but maybe that is not on your agenda.

I just see too much evidence in this thread of good people feeling bad over the user forum and surely that is not great. Personally I think they should change the way in which songs are displayed in the forum. In my opinion, it should be first in first out, similar to what they have on FAWM and 50 90.

I do realize this may be a very contentious issue.

I agree with you Floyd
It's difficult with limited time but I try to spread myself around between most of the forum subjects, including the showcase.

I do definitely notice a few posters who post a new song of theirs just about once a week, but rarely comment on the efforts and contributions of others...

It is noticeable.

this point can be argued, but in the end human nature will prevail. The irrefutable rule of human nature is that people have opinions and they tend to express them (with varying degrees of finesse).

In the same sense that people who don't want to be criticized shouldn't become politicians, people who post opinions, songs or other forms of art in public places should realize that they open themselves up to scrutiny and judgement. No rule or law will ever change that. Only by individual choice does kindness prevail.


This has been suggested in the past, and it is always an option for those who don't want comments or critique to say so. The vast majority of posters specifically invite comments and critique.



I think there are two or more separate issues here. Regarding the issue of advertising PGMusic products, I think everybody should post their stuff regardless of whether or not they comment.

Regarding the etiquette that differentiates an organized and polite forum from a chaotic and rude one, I think the people who have a specific opinion about how things should work (in either direction) should lobby for and reinforce rules of order. All groups work this way... its a phenomenon known as "forming, storming, norming and performing"

In the end a behavioral norm evolves that a majority supports, and then the group functions effectively and harmoniously until someone rises up a disrupts the harmony to push for a new norm.

This whole discussion, by the way, is part of the storming and norming process. However the discussion is assimilated by the group as a whole and gets acted upon going forward will be the new (or continued) group norm.

There are currently 24,975 members and probably less than a hundred active members posting on an ongoing regular basis in the forum.

I track the total views more than the comments. Comments tend to come in the form of either enjoyment of my song or suggestions to improve it in some manner. I truly appreciate those who take time to comment and have total respect for what they have to say.

When I joined the Forum, I monitored the various forums for two months before venturing to make a comment on a post.

It was two months after joining the forum before making my first post and I only made a total of three comments in the 8 months after joining the forum and did not post a song for a year. My first post was on a song where the lyrics were top notch but the arrangement seemed to be an afterthought which in the reply, the forum member said the arrangement was not given much thought.

I followed and listened to a song repeatedly for 8 months before having the nerve to critique the arrangement of another killer song that I felt was a good arrangement but was also the weak link of the song.

My point is that it takes a bit to overcome the intimidation of critiquing what for the most part is quality material by talented songwriters. It appears that most members never overcome the intimidation but do take time to listen. I appreciate this listens and possible shares just as I do the comments. I've noted songs in the User Forum with hundreds of listens but maybe only 10 comments.

Some of this may even out some as PGMusic Radio on Soundcloud matures.

I think Pat makes many great points.

Overall, I don't think if you post a song here, you owe anyone anything. IF they choose to step up and help in anyway way they can, great! That's up to them. No one makes you do it; it's simply a choice.

For me, another choice, is in posting songs...or not to. You have to know your audience. The style(s) of music I write, tend to be more to the "pop" side of things. Not necessarily what the forum considers pop, but what current radio considers pop...or pop country.

I get what I like to write isn't everyone's thing here..and isn't by a long shot from what I've seen. As a result, I don't see much value in posting things I feel people don't want to hear. It benefits almost no one.

So, I have posted 1 partial song on the forums. I appreciated how nice everyone was with it too! I was just figuring out the program at the time.

The flip side is, I do listen to a lot of the music on here. I don't judge it by the standards of what I do or don't do. They only person I really compare that person to is the person they were last week, month, or year. As a general rule, I see growth in peoples skills. That's exciting to me!

I very seldom comment, because, I'm not asked to. There is the general asking for comments, but everyone does a great job already. There was a time I did, but explanations that end up in further explanations and, at times, defending an opinion seemed pointless.

Now, I choose to just enjoy. And there is MUCH to enjoy!

Overall, my take is post your songs if you would like to. Comment if you would like to. It's really not more complicated than that to me.

A nice, simple, balanced approach!

And really, a system like this is self-policing I would think. Those who post and never comment are unlikely to receive many comments as time goes on while those who post and comment will prolly get more!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cEM6_s9ux0

Axey

this is actually the system in place now, and Its highly likely that it will continue. I agree that it it's a self-perpetuating system, and that's why it would be hard to change it to anything else.

But, our opinions aside.. we should all ask ourselves this: If Peter Gannon weighed in, what position do you think he'd take? I think he would want no encumbrances above and beyond the necessary legal ones.

I think you are wrong here. I, for one, like to hear what others are doing with BiaB/RB. I have listened to a number of genres, some I like and others not so much, but I have learned something from all of them. Exposing me to something that I would not normally hear can be very beneficial and educational.

Also it shows the versatility of PGMusic's products. Maybe a potential buyer will listen and say that is my kind of music and since this product can help me produce it then I will buy it. A win-win all the way around.

Just my two USD cents.

For all of us, there's really no way around getting comments requires giving them in kind. I participate in February Album Writing Month ( www.fawm.org ) and there are thousands of active participants each February. There's a few folks on there that get multiple tens of comments on each of their songs and they fall into two categories:
1. the person is just a comment-a-holic and their comments are encouraging and insightful
2. there are a few folks on there that have a certain amount of fame in that community that are prolific and excellent songwriters and each year the community looks forward to their output. One of the guys is actually a darling of the Taxi.com website and has pretty regular sync licensing placements.

Then there are the rest of us that generally get as many comments as we give out. My ratio typically goes like this; for each comment I give, I get 0.75 comment back. But I will spend waiting times at oil changes, dr. waiting rooms, sports practice time for kids, etc. listening through loads of songs at once and picking out something that made me smile or caught my attention and highlight that in a simple comment like "I really enjoyed the cadence of the wordplay in the 2nd line of the chorus" and call it out specifically. If it's someone that I know I've traded comments with over the years, then he/she is usually up for constructive criticism and it seems to be appreciated. That's part of the point of that community once you get settled in to it. Very few uncalled for unnecessarily negative comments - those posters are usually shamed from the community. In 2015 or 2014, there was one particular commenter that was outed for their single line comment: "Sh*t's weak, bro" and it became a sort of meme for the community as what not to do.

I would encourage all of you PGers that are into songwriting of any type to join the FAWM challenge next February. PG products are grossly under-represented there and it's such a ripe market because the challenge is to write 14 songs in the month of February each year. 14.5 (collaborate with someone for the 0.5) in leap years.

-Scott

[Bob, Notes Norton] >>I don't post songs and seldom listen to others. Please don't misunderstand, it's not because I am not interested in the music made by my forum friends, it's because my Internet connection is too slow.
-------------------------------

Hi Bob (Notes) (and anyone else with a slow internet connection).

There's a potentially helpful solution for people with a slow internet connection. If when you stream audio it pauses and starts again, the solution is to first download it, and then you can play it from your desktop. Many people on the user showcase post on soundcloud.com. You can download songs from soundcloud.com using something like this http://9soundclouddownloader.com/ Just paste in the URL of the soundcloud song. And you get a mp3 download. When it downloads to your PC, you can play it on your PC at full speed and there will be no stopping and starting. This one is for soundcloud, there are likely other ones for different services. A slow "dialup" internet connection can download an mp3 song in about 3 minutes, and you can be doing other things on the internet while it downloads.

[David] However, there seems to be a very thin minority of some posters who are posting a lot stuff but don't seem to get around to responding very much to those who are their listeners, if you look at the statistics.
=========================================

David,
Well said, and I agree. Hopefully this serves as a gentle reminder for everyone (myself included!).
Peter

Thanks Peter,

I'll check that out.

Bob

Dear Peter,

Thank you for developing the technology, the platform, the software, the company, the distribution channel, the upgrades, revisions, tools, website and forum so we would have something to post in the first place.

I think we can let you off the hook on this one, if you feel you have been in any way negligent.



There have been a lot of interesting comments here. Wow. Carry on good people! Keep the hits flowing. I think everyone is on a roll these days.