My music world is keyboard centric. I do other things, but mainly I am a keyboard guy. As I look at the new boards and drool over how great they sound, before I seriously consider buying one I find the manual online. I scan that manual and see if it takes 2 advanced degrees in electronical engineering to use it or not. I don't want to spend several thousands on a keyboard and have it so far above my level to program it that I am stuck with only the stock sounds. A couple of years ago I bought a used Yamaha Motif. I had it for a day. Fortunately for me it had 2 bad keys so I was able to return it, but as it sat on my table I was never so lost as trying to figure out how to do sound layers, keyboard splits, octave changes to make those splits make sense... I just don't want a keyboard that turns into a full time job trying to figure out how to use it.

Where do YOU draw the line? Is your line a moving target depending on what you do? I am of the opinion that if you never play live you don't have a lot of requirements from a keyboard beyond stock sounds. If you just play in a home studio you can you use MIDI data to do any exotic sound stacking and have no use for keyboard splitting because you can overdub on tracks. I am trying to recreate some of what Roger O'Donnell does to play with The Cure, and between what I can hear and what I see on videos he does a LOT of keyboard splitting. One of the videos I have of them shows that Roger is playing 2 of this very Kurzweil. Keyboards can get intense in live situations under even the simplest of circumstances. You need to be turning the MIDI on and off depending on whether you want to be sending data to another sound source or play the boards individually. In the Southside Johnny band I was in the last couple of years I had to constantly change the MIDI channel on my sampler because I didn't always need it to be slaved to the Korg Krome. There were times when I was not playing horns that I played it independently from the Korg and the only fast way to do that was to change the MIDI to channel 2. Then remember to change it back to channel 1 for the next song. And at times I played rhythm guitar parts on the Korg for just an 8 bar guitar solo so I just pulled the volume down on the sampler and then often forgot to push it back on... It can really get confusing when you make changes within songs and takes a lot of concentration that my 8th decade brain doesn't always have anymore.

Oh, the manual for the Kurzweil is 148 pages. The Motif was 294. The more they do, the more they have to teach us. Way above my pay grade.

When I used to play keyboards live the extent of my programming was just in setting up enough patches to handle what we normally played. I would just set default sounds for each of the 16 MIDI channels on the Proteus and on the Korg N5. So 32 total patches ready to play. We didn't have a huge song selection so the 32 was plenty for me. If I had needed more I could have programmed multiple banks/patches to allow a larger number. I never did much layering as I could find the sounds I liked without doing so. There may have been a song or two where I hit both keyboards at the same time.....

As you say, now that I'm just a home body, I don't need as many keyboards and I'm fine with just the N5 and MIDI to control.

Since I play music for a living, I draw the line with a cost/gig-benifit decision.

Will this make my gig experience better enough to the audience to justify X number of gig take-home dollars I will spend on it?

I've gotten to the point where my musical instruments are tools, as well as toys, but the purchasing decision, more often than not, ranks them as tools.

Of course, there are exceptions.

Notes ♫

How about time, Notes? The money isn't as much of an issue for me. I really don't care anything about money. I have enough sent to me every month to not have to care. It's the time investment. That Motif I tried was ridiculous. The Kurzweil is difficult but I can make it through this because a former bandmate is a phone call away if I can't figure it out myself (which I prefer to do - like copying homework in school vs doing it). I toyed with the idea of getting a Prophet 10 but thought back to how complex the Prophet 5 was to program and how many players never got beyond the factory sounds.

So in THAT context if you know a piece of gear is extremely complex to learn is that more or less of a factor than price?

Example is that I looked at a Novation Launchpad because it looks cool and I see people use them and they look cool doing it. But I had to factor in "What would you ever use this for?" and I passed on it. But that comes from one who doesn't understand why people still play their songs from this software and not compile them into WAV files. It's not like you are remixing during a live performances. One guy here once replied to a similar comment I made saying he needed jukebox mode to string songs together. Okay. Can you not produce well enough to string songs together in a DAW and then render them as one song?

All a matter of preference, I know.

EDIT to add: I bought the Kurzweil after being in a band with a guy who had one, and seeing so many videos with Roger O'Donnell playing one with The Cure. On some of the videos he is using 2 of them. On others he is using that Kurz and a Motif. Now I need to form or join another band to give me a reason to sit at the thing and create the sounds I need for that band. The stock sounds are great but half the fun of synthesizers is, you know, synthesizing. I ran a vague ad to see what replies I'd get and it as usual it's a bunch of kids who want to form a band and be ready to play in 3 weeks.

Software YES, Hardware NO

It started for me with the MOTU Audio Express. I have had it for years and it still has a red light flashing which I have no idea what it is trying to tell me or how to stop it. Otherwise, I just plug into it and it works.

Then more recently it was the Studio Logic SL88 Studio keyboard. Every other month something changes and I have to dig out the manual and get on line searching for how to adjust the programming.

These both are just hobby tools for me so I try not to over stress. First course of action is to tune them off and then back on again and I am usually set.

What model MOTU do you have and how old is it? "For years" could mean 4 or 22. Do you have a manual that addresses that red light? Is the red light pulsing in a consistent pattern or when you inject input into it as if it is responding to input? Is it on one channel or a global indicator of something?

Maybe 5+ years old. It didn't always blink. But it has 24/7 for the past 6 months. It the global main. Just a steady blink. Here it is. I caught it in mid blink so you see the red light on. I can only assume blinking red means all is working fine.

Dan

The answer to your flashing light is (and I quote)

The “+main” LED has three states: off, on, and flashing.
Push the PHONES knob to cycle among three volume
control modes: phone jack only (off), phones+main outs
(on), or main outs only (flashing).

So the fact that the light is flashing tells you that the phones knob is controlling the main outs only.


Kevin

hehe , nothing is obvious to the uniformed.

Things like that are why I will harp so much on RTFM.

Page 4. Item 6. LOL!!!

Bingo, we have the winner!

Hey Guys, go easy on me. I didn't post here asking for how to fix this. I stated that it was blinking and I didn't how to stop it from blinking. I did mentioned it was working fine so why fix something which was not broken. Trust me I am a busy guy .

But I do appreciate Kevin volunteering to provide guidance.

It's more about priorities than money.

Mrs. Notes and I spent 5 weeks in a Camper Van exploring the eastern half of Australia, a month in China, 5 weeks in England, a month in Spain with a side trip to Morocco, a month in the Czech Republic, and quite a few other countries. All independent travel, except for China (I took a tour because I couldn't read the transportation schedules in the Chinese characters).

And a lot of that involves music, concerts by Czech Philharmonic, Prague Symphony, London Symphony, Hungary Symphony, Moscow Symphony, Beijing Opera, real (not tourist) Flamenco in Spain, Jazz in Amsterdam, steel band in Jamaica, Salsa festival in San Juan, Opera in Italy, Mariachi in Mexico, and more.

We often plan our dates on music events. We were in the audience for this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFoFxa7Hc04 -- although the camera never found us. It's a symphony seldom played in the USA and one of our favorites.

We were planning a trip to Madagascar when COVID reared its ugly head.

We've been to 49 US States, all but the middle of Canada, through Mexico to South America the Caribbean, Europe, Africa, Asia and Australia. The only continent we haven't been to yet is Antarctica, and it's on the list.

We never go to the same place twice, we travel once per year, and we have over 50 more places we want to visit, and it's not likely that we will make them all, so we prioritize.

To us, travelling to a foreign country, staying in local non-US hotels, using public transportation when available, listening to local music, and meeting new people are much more interesting than having more gear.

If a new piece of gear comes along that will make a significant difference in what I do for a living, I won't hesitate. If not, there are other things to do that also give me pleasure.

Notes ♫

I can relate to all of these statements. The Student never even slightly made a complaint, and one of the team then volunteered a solution. Yep. That's what this forum is all about. Helping each other & team-work. That's what gets results.

Well all of that is good to know, Notes, (and a great flex, by the way) but the question really meant "How complex of a piece of gear will you tolerate"? This Kurzweil is a fantastic sounding board but the manual is like advanced calculus. 147 pages of complex information similar to what the Chinese train schedules must have looked like. All I want to do is find out if a screen on the display will tell me how many ROM Blocks are loaded in this thing (since I am not the original owner) and I am on day 4 trying to find out if that is even possible, much less how to do it. Between that manual and about 175 Kurzweil web pages (so far) I have not been able to see IF that is possible. I suspect that deductive reasoning should tell me that with no sounds in the 200s through 770 (out of 1000 sound slots) I don't have all 3 slots filled. BUT, how do I know the cards are not in there and just not populated?

That is what I mean by "geek level".

I am of the mindset that I am going to figure this *&@&*^* *$*#&#% out if it kills me. And if it does, so be it.

You enjoy travel. I hate it. I will never get on a plane again and pay people because I dare to have a frickin' suitcase! And not get a meal on a 5 hour flight. Plus I deal with enough foreigners right here in my city. I am not going out "in search of" to see more of them. Then again, I am an extreme introvert and surround myself with tech to keep me busy. Plus I have no spouse to travel with, and I won't go anywhere I can't take my dog. So no movies, no concerts, no restaurants unless they are dog friendly... This dog, while not officially, is my emotional support system. He comes with me. Period. I passed on seeing Brian Culbertson because after 3 hours away from my dog I would have been an angry, emotional wreck. You don't suffer from that kind of condition, and that whatever god you believe in for that. It is a miserable space to live in.

But back to music, anybody have a Kurzweil by any chance?

That was totally me in trying to figure out that multiple M2 SSDs as boot disk. Took me a while but I was determined.

BTW, what was that model of Kurzweil again? I can try some searching too.

I use a guitar and an amp. no pedalboard.

Guitarists at gigs ask me where the rest of my rig is.
I explain I do use a little reverb. i prefer springs.
I like an amp with a minimum of options. on/off, volume, bass,mid,treble, reverb.


Been that way for almost 50 years.

Not saying its better, it works for me.
My tone is pretty uncomplicated.
I try to sound like a guitar.
On a good night, I get most of the way there

My level of geek with keyboards is .... as long as I can figure out how to get the midi data out and into the DAW I'm good.

Beyond that.... Nope. I use the software synths for everything else.

But then again.... I'm a guitar guy....so......

Look around and see if there is an editor/ librarian app for that thing for your computer platform of choice.

If you haven't seen that yet, I guess more of a definition.

Program RAM vs. Sample RAM Spec Sheet

K2500X. From 1996!!! I am having to scurry to find 1.4 disks. I found a box on Amazon. The OS updates, from my reading, were wonky and there were cases that in upgrading the OS the sounds got scrambled. I don't have the media to reload the sounds. (I know some here would say "Then just keep running the 27 year old OS, but I don't roll that way. I also drive a car rather that a horse drawn buggy.) What disks I have here are NOT high density so I can only format them to 720k. The process requires 1.4mb disks.

I joined a Kurzweil forum similar to this and immediately saw the same mix of nice people and pompous braggards and jerks as I see here. (Any wonder why I am so "popular"?) On the first thread I looked at I had to endure some azzclown telling us about his brand new Prophet 10, which had NOTHING to do with the topic outside of him wanting to brag that he has a Prophet 10. That braggadocio really rubs me wrong. I guess forums everywhere have that element...

I read that page in the 147 page manual I had printed and bound and it doesn't do what I want. This board has a daughterboard in it. To that daughterboard ROMS get plugged in. Those ROMs are then loaded with software on the 1.4 disks I need to find. There is no way I have found yet short of taking the thing apart to see if that daughterboard is installed and if so, how many ROM boards are installed on it. I can see that I have no sounds between 199 and 770, then no 800s. The 900s are populated. That is the "orchestral" set. There are 3. Piano, contemporary and orchestral. From what I can surmise I have base, piano and orchestral installed.

This is a huge problem with used gear that requires deep knowledge. My friend is supposed to call me tonight and we will compare the contents of mine with the contents of his. He has everything available. And here's where the ugly starts is that even if he dumps everything he has and tries to install it here, without knowing if I have 3 ROM blocks or not would make that a really tenuous path. I KNOW that I have 1 ROM block to be able to have the orchestral block installed. This is worse than long division!!

.

Steve, earlier today I posted on that group. I just said hello, that I am a newb to Kurzweil, and that I guarantee I'll have a LOT of questions as time goes by.

A guy replied that if I wasn't smart enough to read the manual and learn what I needed to learn that I probably shouldn't have bought the keyboard. He then went on to do a major flex, boasting to me about how well HE can program it.

THAT is the kind of guy that keeps people from posting. Also the kind of guy I want to track down and punch several times. And then give him a heel stomp to the head while he is laying flat on the ground. And to quote Ivan Drago, "If he dies, he dies..."

Why do so many people suck? Is there really a need to rub stuff in people faces like that? I've had this thing for less than 2 weeks!!

I'm sure that you know this but just in case you have forgotten the musician whom boast the loudest are the ones whom can't play. Be very careful of a quiet musician. They are the ones that can blow you away with their chops.

At least that has been my observations. YMMV

I just went back to that Kurzweil forum and deleted my account. That is an awful forum full of snobs and braggards. I don't want to be around either.

Wow. What an a$$ hole.

As much as I am a firm believer that one should avail oneself of the documentation as their first resort, I also understand that - with all due respect extended but none intended - it is usually written by engineers, with all that implies.

Sometimes they can be really poorly written and hard to understand. Sometimes the information is just missing. And sometimes the manual is just flat out wrong. I've seen all of those.

Wow, sorry to hear about your experiences over there on that forum. Sounds like continued research with the Google is the better way.

I understand and feel your pain

I have a Roland XV-5050 that I bought to use with my Wind MIDI controller. I'm sure it's a very powerful unit, but the manual is way beyond my synth programming knowledge. It may as well be written with Kanji characters for me. I wouldn't understand it any less if it did.

My solution: I went to a company called Patchman Music, and Matt the programmer also plays and makes patches for wind synthesis.

Without that, it would be useless for me.

I checked out his website and he does some Kurzweil work https://www.patchmanmusic.com/kurzweilK2000.html

I mostly use a Yamaha VL70m for wind synthesis. It's physical modeling synthesis makes it seem like I am playing an instrument, instead of controlling a synthesizer. I can modify patches on the VL to suit my playing style, I can't even begin to that with the XV.

However, the VL is monophonic. If I want to play a horn section, all I get is one horn.

The XV is polyphonic. The Patchman bank has a nice horn section. Plus it has a few other things the VL lacks, a good steel drum, B3, vibes plus voice patch and a few more that are great for background parts, but unlike the VL, not as expressive for leads.

The XV also comes with thousands of other patches that I'll probably never use because I can't figure out how to even modify them for wind synthesis. But that's OK, it does what I bought it to do.

Notes ♫

I actually know this guy. He lives 20 minutes from me and works out of his home. I talked to him when I was looking for a specific thing for an Ensoniq board. I dated a girl many years back that lived on the next street over from him.

The thing is, he does sounds. I need help with the actual keyboard. I will email him but this question is so specific I am not optimistic. He's a really smart guy though so maybe. Also an outstanding photographer. Must be doing really well because he lives in a rich guy house in a rich guy suburb. One of those places that works really hard to "keep the city clean".

And a tangent point to this thread, it took me about 3 hours to find a seller on Amazon who would verify they actually HAD a box of 3.5 floppies to sell me. Several advertise them, but some want as high as $50 for a box of 10. Um.... no. I wrote to those sellers and asked if they'd reduce to a reasonable, honest price instead of gouging. They threw supply and demand in my face to justify those prices. I replied "Demand? I may be the only person in the world who needs these and it is for a very specific, one time use thing. They did not reply to that one.

I used to sell Band-in-a-Box styles on Floppies. As soon as the technology allowed direct sale and download, I went that way and never looked back.

I gave almost all of them away, keeping a few to load patches into my Korg i3 and Peavey DPM/SP.

I should have saved them, I'd be a rich man now

Notes ♫

Eddie,

I just found a few 3.5 floppies that I got from a company called Landmark. I have no idea what is on them, but they can probably be formatted.

PM me if you're interested.

I think I got them free with another purchase, back in the dark ages of computing.

I know that I'm missing a chance to be a millionaire, but if you want them, I'll send them along - for free.

Just promise me that if you decide to sell them for the big bucks, you cut me 10% of the profits

Notes ♫

Notes I have a box coming from Amazon. BUT... if suddenly they become unavailable I will let you know. Thank you for offering.

Eddie, I haven’t read the whole thread, but if you need a 3.5” floppy, make sure you know what density is required. Our old Yamaha Clavinova still works and it takes DD 720 K, but will not work with HD 1.5 MB.

I need 1.4mb Matt. The Kurz will format both 720k or 1.4 meg but I don't have any HD disks. They arrive Tuesday. I can do some things on 720k disks but to backup sounds before I do an OS upgrade I need high density. I have 3 disks here that are not HD and found out yesterday that I need HD for the ROM Block backups. This old board was built before SD cards became the norm. (1996) Love the sounds in the Kurzweil though so all of this dancing will be worth it eventually. I have not yet connected the keyboard with my Kurzweil rack synthesizer. (They are not in the same room yet. Not even on the same floor of the house in fact. Once all this housekeeping is done I can do that.)