SONG TITLE : Nov Collaboration

ARTIST : Just waiting on the singer & lead player.
CAVEAT
emptor...this is long and has a significant tail. You may care to tell me when the fade out should get to out.
**BEFORE PLAYING THE SONG PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING.**
This isn't loud yet. Use speakers if possible.
Backstory
This story is in the back
The parts
BIAB provided
NashvilleradioFunkballad16^Ev16 060 - 100 Ntn369 10 stems.
(They were okay but there's a lot of flamming going on that doesn't always sound quite right)
Organ Rhythm American Slow 3099
Piano licks from various RTs.
Gospel vocals though they needed a LOT of work to fit
The rest is me with the addition, I only do it on this style of song it seems, of some lap steel tuned to EBEG#BE so that the detuned parts sound better.
I had to reset the intonation on the guitars for this - seems they've been out for some time.
Vantage bass through a BDI21
Epiphone Sheraton II and Squire Bullet Mustang through my Marshall amp.
Bruno Royal Artist through a Yamaha FX500
Mellotron Flute files added
4x12 mic'd with a 57 & a 609
El Cheapo SX Lapsteel through a Big Fluff into a Pignose with the 57.
LOTS of delay.
The interface
SSL 2
The DAW
Reaper
The monitors
ADAMS T7Vs
WARNING
My draft vocals. I don't like to sing - this is one of them.
In summary
This is more in wint'ry
HERE'S THE LINK
Noc Collab
I've applied the suggestions made thus far and kept some of them.
I've worked out an end point but haven't applied it yet -- still tinkering with it. I added Gospel vocals in spots. That was difficult as the RT was tracked at 75bpm and I'm running 60. It was listed as the bottom of range for the RT however it warbles very unmusically. I scanned it with Melodyne and reduced the drift to a little less than a semitone, (it was MUCH larger), and it sits far better.
I tried adding punch to the snare & kick.
I also tried retracking the vocal but I had the same issues...I'm singing UP to the note, mainly from a correct place but the result sounds tuned and when tidied with tuning sounds even worse.
Here's the update
UPDATE 04 12
NOTE:I'm looking for a 'forensic analysis' as it is still AWIP any and all suggestions will be attempted.
Have at it!

WORD Thingy:
You insist that we exist,
In language of the pragmatist,
But knowing doesn't make it so.
Before we learn it's time to go.

Shhh, don't say it aloud,
Nothing that could make you proud.
What you say is taken down,
And recited when they take your crown.

What you feel and what you see,
are nothing more than things that we,
Conjure for a farewell kiss,
While we're astride our own abyss.

Shhh, don't say it out loud,
Conversations are a thundercloud.
What you say is taken down,
And recited when you're far from town.

Hush, keep it in your head.
No, you're no better off dead.
What you say is taken down,
And restated in your wedding gown.

Waking from some reality,
To find it wasn't meant to be.
Knowing something, making plans:
All is nothing when the barcode scans.

Shhh, don't say it out loud,
Conversations aren't allowed.
What you say is taken down,
And recited at your time to drown

I saw the 8:30, and thought... Yikes! This really puts the "extended" in "Pygmy Beat Extended".

At the 7:30 mark, it had a long fade on distortion. I guess if you're going for a long song, you're going all in?

I like the Pink Floyd vibe. Not sold on the melody - rhythmically repetitious, with no discernible chorus for a lazy listener like to me latch onto. The vocal is too far under the music for me to easily make out.

It'll be interesting to see what another vocalist brings to the song.

The majority of my songs have a feedback fade out. This one has the fade out built from a semi acoustic guitar, a Big Fluff pedal, a 4x12 cab and VOLUME. It was the 1st guitar part recorded and proceeds for the entire song lifting and dropping as needed or as it sounded best. Still a WIP so I haven't decided where/when the silence wins as yet.


Yep, melody and it's rhythm repeat - it is deliberate - "honest". The vague hypnotic vibe thing needs it. The chorus, well, to my ears it does but they are both jaded and subject to the "repetition = truth" thing. I'll look into the changes though.


Ditto...collaboration with the intention of introducing new ideas as well as talent.
Thanks, a few things for me to contemplate and work on whilst waiting for the external input.
Stay safe.

Hi Ray,

Love the intro! The lap steel sounds great and I like your bass work too.

Read Davids comments, for me I have no problem with the melody, perfect for the song I think, it suits the rhythmic trance thing you have happening.

I actually didn't find it that long surprisingly enough, you have enough things going on to hold my attention.

Plus, I listened to LOTS of Pink Floyd and all those types of bands back in the day, and this fits right in.

I think I would end it around 7:35, with a short fade into that feedback bit.

Cool work, looking forward to seeing how this progresses.

Hi Ray
Sounds really cool to me already.
Good idea to make the development of a song accessible to all.
I also like the length of the song.
Because it also offers plenty of variety
Great work Ray
Many greetings
Andi ;-)

You've posted a lot of Floydish songs and this is the most Floydish I've heard from you yet. When I saw the time length it concerned me, but you supplied lots of ear candy along the journey. I agree with Dave on the ending. In general, I might wish for a shorter song if at all possible. But I understand now, having done a few slow pieces, how hard that can be to do.

Lyrics were intriguing as always. The wedding gown line threw off the imagery in my head, I suddenly had to conjure a female and up to that point things were vaguely gender free. Might just be my own hangup, I certainly admit to that possibility.

With a strong vocal, this might be your best yet that I've heard. Hope you find the right person.

Well, you know if you cut out the count-in, you'd shave off a good 7 seconds, and using cut-time could make it almost radio-ready. HAHA I am so glad you don't write your songs for radio, Ray. I really really like this, and you know I'd be keyed on that bass. You do it all so well, but I really like your choices on bass. Great tone and timing. Man, I love your lyrics as always. I started typing here when the feedback started. Ok. Master it. Make it loud. No warning labels required.

Hi Ray,

I think this is your longest song. And very intriguing too!
The connection to Pink Floyd was indeed quickly made. I even had Atom hearth mother in mind.
At the end of your song, starting at 7:30 I expected something like "marmalade, I like marmalade"like they did.

I like the melody, the build of the song and all the things that happened underway.
Your vocals made me a bit confused. Have you used a pitch changer in it? And you did hide them again.
On the other hand the whispering was very cool. I really liked that.
And also your lyrics. Complicated, but very nice.

No, I don't think the song is too long. It needs to be this long because of all that is happening.

Very good project, Ray!

Hans

Thanks Dave,
time point noted.
Yes, it's not radio or time poor friendly in length or tonality is it?
Lap steel always does my head in when I sit down with it, BUT I soon remember the right tuning, (I've decided to write it down & leave it in the case from now), and to have the steel right over the "fret" and the rest, at my skill & use level, is both fun & easy.

Thanks Andi,
I'd be a goose to pass up the ears & ideas of forum members so post songs in development quite often.

Thank you,
Yes, about every third song of late...must be a need to expel those aural ghosts.
The switch to gown was done after some thinking...not intended as a gender selection idea but as a stop, rethink point...I had my own ideas about what the song related to as the lyrics developed, and decided to toss that in the air. seems it worked.
Yes, a good vocal would be a good thing.

Nirvana released "radio friendly unit shifter" in '93...wow almost THIRTY years ago.
They started with the howl.
Thanks for your kind words.
I worried about the bass until I found I had intonation problems with my guitars. From that point I left the bass alone. Seems that was a good move.
I could stop & print now but I do have a singer and a guitarist in the wings and am waiting for their tracks.

Hans,
The last couple of psych/prog tracks I did have a tag at the end so I thought I'd best skip it for a change.
The vocals are, at some points tidied with Rea Tune, but not pitch shifted.
Hidden - yes, becasue they aren't intended as the final vocal.
Long it is but I stay awake and that's what works for me.

Ray, I am certainly no expert on the psych/prog genre. I did listen to all 8 min and it grabbed me. I like the bass playing and all the little ear catching things going on. The lap steel is cool. The thing that I would work on is the drum sound. Maybe CLA drums or Neutron could beef up the kick and the snare. An interesting piece to say the least, Tom

Thanks Tommy,
I've attempted to address the drums with some compression based "punch" on both kick & snare being mindful that I didn't want to work against the languid 60 bpmness.There's something wrong with my Reaper project at present as it throws up delay tags from the dirtiest guitar at random. I'll have to dig deep as well as asking pardon for the intrusive noise in this mix.

[ I only listened to the 04 12 update ]

A shameless Pink Floyd copy, and that's totally fine, because I LOVE Pink Floyd.

Some random thoughts:

• The guitar that kicks in at 2:23 sits a bit too dominant in your mix. Maybe panning it from left to right would create an interesting effect without suppressing the rest of the instruments too much.
• You play really good Floydish/Waters bass licks. Big kudos for that!
• Same goes for the drums, some great Mason fills
• the snare gets a little annoying after a while, I'd have it pause for a few bars every other minute or so
• I would probably speed it up a tiny bit, maybe 2 BPM more. But I think since you already have a lot of instruments recorded, that would be too much of a change.

But the song is already great as it is now. And your voice, although it doesn't sound exactly like Roger Water's, fits this song very well.

Add a chorus or two sung in a Gilmour-like voice, and you'll sell a lot of copies of this song. I would be the first to buy one

Thanks B.D.,
To me it sounds more like, and was inspired by, Will'o'the Wisp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir1P_V9aXAs BUT if you hear Floyd I'm not unhappy at all.
The thing at 2.23, as addressed in the above comments, is a randomish bug in the project within Reaper - sometimes it appears & sometimes not. I'm reverse engineering to find the cause.
I upped the snare on the recommendation of another commentator. I wasn't convinced but gave it a go to hear the results...I'm still unconvinced and more inclined to agree with you.
I could speed up the entire project by increasing the BPM AFTER everything else is completed - otherwise any further additions would be come very difficult.
Finally, there's a lead guitar track and, hopefully, a vocal from a singer coming soon...I hope.

ray,

An expressive bass line
Excellent use of the Organ
Good drum selection. I did want to the snare to be slightly "bigger" (but that's more of a "modern" request)
Guitars sound great!! An truly interesting. Ear candy

I like your vocal. (the whispers are COOL!)

As others have noted - the most Floydish track ever posted in the Showcase (that OTHER Floyd, of course)

This is "close to finished", I think. My favorite of all the PBX songs posted...

Listened a couple of times earlier today. Never even thought of the length. Simply Enjoyed!!

fj

Thanks for the kind words fj,
I've added a separate large room to the snare to attempt some biggness for you.
I can't post an update in the O.P. because it's edit period has passed.
I'll start a new thread when the lead has arrived and been settled in.
THANKS AGAIN.

We very much like the groove, Ray.

Pink Floydish as mentioned by others, but also like a mystical dirge.

Good lyric (we much like your “connect a few dots yourself” style), good band (love your bass) and it kept our attention the full length with no problem.

And the “punch add” to the snare and kick was quite successful. Not easy to do … at least for me.

Fine bass and a cool steel for sure.

Epic.

J&B

Hi rayc,

Beautiful orchestration very rich and well thought out. Your voice lends itself well to it but a little more volume on this one would be nice. The lyrics are interesting. Like others, I find that the piece is a bit long. But otherwise it's a good job.

Kindly regard
Derochette
alias JaniJackFlash

I like the instrumentation and imagination employed here.
It's like a big sofa waiting for someone to sit in it.

Vic

Thanks Janice & Bud,
It was an easy construction and while it's still without the crowning lead guitar part I think the little piano parts care off about four different RT pianos really help thins thing along.
Narrative wise is does go off in an apparent different direction once it hits wedding gown territory but the thread is clear to me and that's all that matters as you're correct "connect the dots" for the listener will probably reveal a much better story.

Thanks JJJ,
in my own tawdry defence I'd offer that the story took that long to run its course except that's a fib as the lyrics came well after the song bed was made.
No defence other than that's what how it was from the get go.

Thanks Vic,
so long as you're not reaching for the remote I'm happy.

Ray,

Very nice job doing the necessary surgery on all those Realtracks! (I know how cumbersome that can be) I think your track has a very Pink Floydish type of sound, and that you did an excellent job with it! As for the fade, I really couldn't say when the appropriate time to start would be. I appreciate all the hard work you do with your tracks and making suggestions to other forum members! You are definitely a candidate for forum MVP!

Thanks, T

Thanks Torrey
I knew it'd benefit from Gospel RTs but had given up until the thought of "tuning" them occurred. it made a world of difference.

Rayc,

I listened to the O4 12 update . . . what a gorgeous opening. Yeah, a Pink Floyd feel to it, but you’ve made this your own with some great sounds that really resonate. I find the vocal a bit buried (though just listening over laptop speakers). Love the whole mood of this regardless; the music bed is outstanding—really crisp drum set working here that really pops. The length doesn’t bother me at all—it’s engaging throughout. Haunting in its way. Cool vibe, brilliant arrangement.

All my best to you,

Deej

Ray,
Sorry late for the party. Very cool experimental tune. Lots of interesting instrumental passages, FX and and clever mix* with panning and delays. Good vocals! Honestly, I don't think you need a "vocalist" to re-sing it. It is way to personal for somebody to pick up and maintain the mood you imagined for 8 minutes. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that it is too long. I listened to it twice and it kept me entertained. My opinion is that your vocals, especially for this tune is very acceptable. The only thing, I would up them by 2-3db and maybe that's just me, but I believe vocals are a bit dry, while the rest has airy feel. In any case, very creative project. Thank you for sharing.

Misha.

Thanks Deej,
It has progressed a bit since that mix...the lead guitar track arrived, the planned singer dipped out, final mix done & sent to the M.E....who is unwell so can't do it this week.
I'd post an update BUT the forum system won't allow me to edit the O.P. anymore.
I've prep'd a video and will post the mastered version & flick when the M.E. is done.

Thanks Misha,
You're a guest who is never "late".
My voice on this is quite raspy on the lower notes and this becomes very obvious with a rise in level. I'll have a look at the reverb levels and, perhaps, wet my whistle.