Unfamiliar w/this, trying to get there.....my interest is in recording only. A few questions:

- Are "sets" comparable to "stems?"
- What is/isn't edit-able in "sets?" For ex. can I replace a piano solo with another instrument, and/or delete it altogether?
- How easy/hard is it to use or integrate with a DAW?

Appreciate any info

Welcome.

I don't recognize the terms sets or stems. But yes, you can mute, delete or (to some extent) change any track. If there is a certain combination (called a Style in BIAB), you can change it and save it under another name. You can also create your own styles.

The Melody and Soloist tracks are for adding your own MIDI melodies and harmonies. The other tracks can be MIDI or audio (called RealTracks). You can edit the MIDI inthose tracks and Freeze the track so it isn't overwritten each time the song is regenerated.

These are just a few points; feel free to ask more specific questions.

BIAB works great with a DAW. You can easily drag tracks into a DAW. You can also set all tracks to flat eq, dry reverb, and center the panning prior to exporting, so these adjustments can be done in the DAW.

Welcome to the forum Joe.

Regarding working with a DAW, Band in a box is integrated with a DAW called RealBand. It is included with any Band in a box package you purchase.

For serious multitrack recording, serious audio or midi editing, using stems (they are called Scraps in RealBand), you will find more satisfaction concentrating on the RealBand program.

Band in a box is better at creating your song structure, chord progression, using stops, rests and holds or just quickly creating a backing track.

Many users start their song project in Band in a box then move the project into RealBand for the more complex editing, adding additional tracks and adding effects.

Some users finish their entire project in RealBand while others who are experienced with another DAW, mix and finish their project in that DAW. RealBand and Band in a Box can save and export the individual files as WAV files that work with any DAW.

Hope that helps but as Matt stated, feel free to bring any specific questions that you have here to the forum. Someone likely has already encountered the same situation and will jump in and help out.

I've noticed that Native Instruments is pushing "stems" pretty hard now. Apparently, they are open MP4 format multi-track audio files with independent bass, drums, melody and voice "stems" that can be mixed independently. Seems to be big in the DJ crowd for spontaneous mixes and mash-ups. Not sure that BIAB can handle MP4.

Jeff

1. no, well kinda...
2. I don't know... uhhh yeah.
3. real easy

regarding one and two... working with BB is more like jamming with friends than anything I can use to describe it. You can edit the chords and styles, and just about everything else. If you want to change something, you can. If you want to replace the bass with a different bass or the guitars with piano you can do that too. And yes, you can delete or mute.

Three... the cool thing is you can export the waves BB creates as wave files and import them into your favorite DAW.... so in that respect, yeah, I guess you can say they are comparable to stems.

But it gets better..... Let me describe how I work with this to create the music I write and produce.... have a listen to the songs on my music site to hear what I do.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=443134&content=music

I, and many others here, compose and write in BB. I get the song exactly like I want and then save it and close BB. I reopen the song in Real Band and it renders the tracks to the song I just created in BB as waves. Using RB's unique ability to render additional tracks, I add more tracks to the project. These could be piano solo tracks or mandolin tracks and save them all as well. Now, I export them from RB and import then into Sonar, the DAW I use. That's where I add my live guitar and piano and mandolin as well as all the vocals in the project. Final mixing and polishing gets done there and the audio editing if required also gets done in Sonar.

In addition.... although I don't use it this way..... BB will open in most DAW's as a VST so you can work right in the DAW from the start. It's possible to simply drag and drop the tracks as needed.

Hope this helps.

Listen to some of the music people are producing using BB/RB and their DAW..... it's quite an amazing tool.

Thanks very much for the replies. I didn't realize RB was a DAW. I wish they'd just say that on the site. I'm sure I'll have more questions....this could be a huge help to me though. I was NOT looking forward to having to create percussion, rhythm sections (etc etc) note by note on a synth. This could be a huge help to get past that hurdle.

RB is, IMHO a very basic DAW which is why I continue to use Sonar. If you don't have a DAW RB will work quite well. Like any DAW, you need to spend time with it to understand what it can and cannot do.

I absolutely detested trying to create drum tracks and even the other tracks for instruments I didn't play, using a synth. The drum tracks always sounded so dry and boring and not at all real even though I had good sounding samples. The real drum tracks in BB/RB ended all that. I haven't had to create a drum track now in a very long time and I don't miss it one bit.

A friend of mine and I were speaking last night on the phone.... catching up on the past few years. Talk got around to music and recording since he too is a musician. He was wanting to set up a studio and eventually we got talking about BB/RB. He couldn't seem to understand the concept of how BB worked and kept insisting he would need to learn how to program drum tracks and use a click track.... and I kept telling him no he didn't have to go that route.

I think he finally took my word and I invited him to come and see how it works in real time.

Interesting....can you elaborate on it being a "very basic DAW?" What (generally, not asking for every little thing) does it lack? It will be just me and a synth and maybe vocals, so I'm wondering if it will be enough.

Sure, it's plenty. RB has 48 tracks.

RB is surprisingly powerful for a free add-on. If I hadn't already learned other DAWs, I'm sure I would be using RB now.

There are other aspects I don't think have been brought up. As a companion to BIAB, RB can read BIAB songs directly. This is something no other DAW can do; you have to drag tracks into your DAW or render them to audio tracks first before loading into the DAW. In addition, while BIAB can regenerate a whole track, RB has a special ability to regenerate just part of a track. I'm no expert, but others here who are could add to this list of unique features.

Like any tool, one must learn how to use it and it should have a good work flow, as well as ease of use.

Perhaps I'm about to display my total ignorance of this tool....

First.... every DAW has advantages and disadvantages when compared side by side with other DAW's. One does this extremely well while not doing that, but the competitor does THAT well while not excelling at this. That's why there are so many good ones on the market,and they all have their fans and critics.

I have looked at the functionality and how the workflow is in RB by using it, and there were some aspects of audio editing.... when, for example, I have to split an audio track and replace a section with something copied from another place in the song. I have found this to be difficult at best. I was also looking to use RB in a project as the DAW and wanted to add envelopes for precise audio control. I couldn't seem to get the same level of precision as I do in Sonar. I call it surgical precision. Placing a node in between two notes in quick succession. I also believe I have seen where some VST's have issues running properly in RB. I forget exactly what I was wanting to do.... but I ran into a brick wall and could not figure out how to do what it was I needed at the time. I RTFM and couldn't find the answer there. Being in a project, I simply moved the tracks to Sonar and finished it there.

Although, I'm sure there's folks here who know how to do all that without major difficulty. Like I said, maybe I haven't given it a fair chance. However, I have tried to use it and found it to be less than accommodating to the way I like to work. I know Sonar fairly well and doing anything that needs to be done is generally a very simple and quick matter. Perhaps RB is the same way and I would just need to spend more time with it.

HOWEVER.... what RB lacks in total functionality as a full fledged DAW, comparable to the Sonar's and PT's of the world..... it excels in being able to generate Real Tracks for my BB songs. Nothing else can do that. I know of NO DAW that can do that.... so that's where Real Band shines. And that's how it serves in my studio/songwriting process. So while I'm not a fan of it's DAW capabilities, I am a huge fan of it's track generation abilities.

Joe, If you do not have a DAW and/or never used a DAW RealBand is all you need.

Many of us have been using DAWs for years before RB came into existence thus we are very familiar with them. Most of us do not use RB or use it as a second DAW. That is use RB for what it is excels in them move the project over to another DAW.

Then many others here only use RB. The bottom line is you can not tell what DAW, if any, was used as you listen to a CD, MP3 or record.

My advice is if you don't already use a DAW learn RB, and I mean learn everything about it. You just might find that it does everything you need, as many here have found.

Good luck.

Ps - I should add that those of us using other DAWs started out with a DAW similar to or much less powerful than RB. The things that RB can do was not available to the high priced DAWs we used 10 years ago! Also what you can do in RB today would cost thousands of dollars to do just 20-25 years ago!

A DAW is an extremely important part of music production! Its features, functions and ease of use are critical to the process of making music. If you do not currently use a DAW I would strongly recommend checking out other DAWs in addition to Realband. RB is included with BIAB so some folks here will go on and on about it being free but if it slows you down or restricts you that is NOT free! They also like to point out no other DAW can generate RealTracks..well of course not as that is a proprietary format! Other than that single feature (generating RealTracks) they are hard-pressed to give a reason to use RB! Try other DAWs and choose based on what works for your process! If you own BIAB you can always use RB for generating RealTracks to use with another DAW!

Appreciate the replies! Frankly I'm not at a point of being ready to record anyway, so this is simply info gathering for me right now. I'm near certain I will want to use BIAB regardless of what DAW I use though, so I might pull the trigger anyway and tinker with it...then when I get a studio set up I will be that much farther along with that aspect.

As for whether RB is good enough as a DAW, who knows. The only other DAW I've even looked at was Reaper, because people were telling me it's so easy to use...but my initial impression was quite different. But again it was just a first look and I didn't really use it enough to be sure. I just hope there are others which are easier!

Just to be perfectly clear...my comments above were about RealBand and whether or not you should use it or another DAW. If you are wondering whether or not to purchase BIAB there is no question...BUY IT! Whether you wanna use it for live backing tracks, near-demo-quality recordings, songwriting, learning or whatever you will not find anything even close to how good it is when you are using RealTracks! Without RealTracks I would not be using it but with RealTracks it is Amazing!

Two tips...1) wait for the end of year sale if you can and 2) buy the option with the full set of RealTracks.

And then you can decide later on if RealBand is for you.

"Other than that single feature (generating RealTracks) they are hard-pressed to give a reason to use RB! "

Not really hard-pressed at all. For instance;

You can enter chord progressions the same as BIAB
It works extremely well with midi
and it has thousands of midi styles
midi styles and be replaced with RealTracks and Real Styles
It has access to thousands of Real Styles (different from RealTracks)
It works with User Tracks
It's integration with the new Stylemaker
The Multiriff generation feature - it is uniquely different from generation and regeneration
It's integration with the Audio Chord Wizard
The new 2016 feature 'Record a click track'
The Karaoke lyrics window and the .kar format
The ability to save .XML files
The guitar tab window
The piano window
The notation window
The performance artists files
Some of the above features are geared toward teaching or learning to play an instrument, composing and are bypassed by those who use RB for backing tracks or songwriting and arranging.

RealBand is not a one trick pony that it's only unique feature is RealTrack generation. Real Styles and Midi styles are valuable resources in of themselves. No other DAW can integrate with BIAB, RealTracks, midi styles, RealStyles and midi styles the Way RB can.

The fact remains that its ONLY strengths are in its relation to the flagship product. I cannot think of a single DAW feature that RB does better than real DAWs. Further I honestly cannot imagine anyone choosing it as their DAW without those PG features. All I'm trying to say is, as a tool in the chain or even as a simple DAW substitute, it may serve just fine. But many of the hardcore PG fans love to talk about it as if it is a serious DAW contender and I just find that to be far from the truth.

There will be a learning curve for any good DAW. It's not something you feel comfortable with in a couple of days or even weeks (at least it wasn't for me). I've been using Reaper for 3 or 4 years and am pretty comfortable with it, although even now there are many features I haven't even explored.

Thanks, but those versions are likely out of my price range. I'll have to get by with the lesser RTs and/or wing it with MIDI.


Many of the things you mention are either BIAB features, not RB, or are things pretty much all DAWs have, near as I can tell...PS I give up, what are "real styles?" I didn't see it mentioned on the site anywhere.

"Many of the things you mention are either BIAB features, not RB, or are things pretty much all DAWs have, near as I can tell...PS I give up, what are "real styles?" I didn't see it mentioned on the site anywhere."

No. They are RB features. You do not have to open BIAB or a VST to use them. They are RB features resulting from direct integration with BIAB and they are unique from other DAW's in that respect.

Follow JohnJohnJohn's comments. He started with generating tracks being the only feature to use RB. That prompted my response.


JohnJohnJohn responded to my post with "The fact remains that its ONLY strengths are in its relation to the flagship product." which is similar to your remarks.

I admit that I find that to be a bit of an odd criticism. RB is a DAW designed to integrate and work in close relation with a flagship product. Every BIAB feature you find in RB is a RB feature by design.

Why is it odd? Because if you browse through the BIAB wishlist, you will find requests for RB DAW features, RB generating abilities, multiriff and a host of other RB features to be integrated into BIAB when all of these things already exist in RB.

There is a laundry list of reasons given not to use RB and to each his own. I have Studio One v3 Pro and paid quite a bit of money for but only fire it up when I have need to mix with the Faderport Controller. It is designed to work seamlessly with my Presonus interfaces and faderport but I find more value to my workflow using the 'only strengths' of RB's integration with BIAB features.

Regarding RealStyles. RealStyles are RealTrack, or RealTrack/midi combos, or RealTrack/midi/Supermidi combos, Realtrack/loops/usertrack combos put together by PGMusic in combos of instrument and tracks to play in a genre or fashion of music so we, the end user, do not have to create our own.

The newly released XTRA Styles are simply RealStyles that use some of the latest available RealTracks. But according to a PGMusic post, around 300 manhours went into creating 164 tracks. My BIAB/RB has over 4900 style combos. That is thousands of man hours to put together. RealStyles are a big time saver when we create accompaniment tracks.

When you do get ready..... here's what you need.

A computer to run the software ... preferably a dedicated machine as opposed to general duty shared machine...

A good interface that uses ASIO and connects with USB to the computer.

BB&RB of course.

Don't forget the mics, cables, speakers, headphones, other software to make the music better.... VST's and stuff....

Also, have a look at Cakewalk's Music Creator 7. I've been a long time CW user. Music Creator (MC) in it's various versions is on my computer.... MC 4,5,& 6 as well as Sonar X1e. MC is also sold by PG music for $50 IIRC, and if you check the Cakewalk store periodically, you can find it on sale from time to time for $20. But even at it's full MSRP of $50 it's well worth every penny. It's a fully capable DAW that has everything you will need to do superb music production without the complexity and all the extra bells and whistles of the really expensive flagship models of DAWs.

Before you buy a DAW, go to the various DAW software company websites and read what the users are talking about and listen to the music they are producing on that DAW. Some DAW's are better suited to certain types of music due to their included features and functions. Educate yourself so you can buy the best DAW for you.

Another advantage to getting MC7 (whether you use MC7 or RealBand) is that you also get the TTS-1 Softsynth, which is much better than the Coyote WT (which is just a DXi wrapper for the basic General MIDI sounds that come with Windows).

Yes... I use the TTS synth as my default synth for BB/RB..... but even better than the TTS.... MC7 also comes with the Cakewalk Sound Center synth which is a sampled synth..... talk about some really nice sounds. The $50 retail price is worth it because CSC is worth that by itself. And it's a freaking NO BRAINER when you can find it on sale for $20 on the Cakewalk store site.

I assume you mean an AI.....and don't they pretty much all use ASIO?

Really? Interesting.....

Anyway, thx again all for the info. I still have lots of research to do on DAWs.....hopefully most of these have some kind of trial version I can try

It's nice that many AIs come with DAWs too, and frankly I'm not suspecting much diff in AIs' quality generally, so if I favor a given DAW, that could definitely influence my decision, assuming of course the AI meets my (pretty basic) needs.

Most all new ones do. If you purchase an older interface it may not handle ASIO and only use MME for example. Bottom line is that ASIO is a better/faster protocol than the MME that older interfaces use.

For the benefit of others, what do you refer to by the repeated use of AI ?
(Every time I see AI I automatically think of Artificial Intelligence)

I think he means Audio Interface.

This stopped me for a second. I still call it a sound card.

Pardon...yes, Audio Interface. Which is not really interchangeable with the term sound card....a computer has a sound card, but the sound card is not an "Audio Interface" (except maybe in a very broad, general sense), ie as the term is understood in the recording world. It's basically a stripped down mixer, ie doesn't have all the controls/etc a mixer does, but has the same basic functionality of being able to connect the computer (presumably to use a DAW) and one's gear, like mics, keyboard etc.

For example: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Scarlet2i2G2?adpos=1t1&creative=105744828601&device=c&matchtype=b&network=g&gclid=CLDg7srgw84CFVFahgodK-MP2Q

Thanks. I've had more sound cards and audio interfaces than I can count, dating back to a SoundBlaster added in 1989 to a PC I built in the early 1980s. Some years later, getting all that radio frequency interference 'out of the box' was a major step forward. Check my hardware and software specs below and you'll see I do like the Focusrite Scarlett line.

Matt what are we going to do with our 18i20's? Focusrite just came out with a second generation line of them. They have prettier lights and can record at even higher resolution.

Audio interface...or interface for short is a sound card that's designed to do multiplex audio work in real time. A quality interface running ASIO lets you monitor the tracks and record at the same time as well as process the synths in real time with very little induced latency. Audio going in both directions, and synths going both ways all in real time.

ASIO is the preferred driver for a modern interface. It is totally possible to run an interface on MME or some other driver. However, to get the maximum performance capability from the card as it was designed to do, ASIO is the driver that will get you there.

Steve, I looked at one last night at Guitar Center. The sample rate is great but what I especially like is the new MixControl software. Sadly, that won't work on our older model (I wrote to ask them).

Yeah, I noticed it in the downloads section of the site when I wanted to download it. The documentation seemed to lean that way too. Looks like the new software is much more user-friendly for customizing your own routes.

Exactly. That's why I even gave a thought to upgrading for $400+ I didn't, though.

Sets are not the same thing as stems. The term stem refers to a group of tracks combined during the mixing process, either to a sub group, or even render to as an audio file, intended for easy mixing. For example, you might have a stereo audio file of percussion parts that you want to use live if you don't have a precision player.
In BIAB, if you set a part to play a piano solo, you can undo it or replace that with a different instrument.
How easy is it to integrate with a DAW? It depends on how deep you want to get into a DAW.

Soundblaster? I wish I wasn't old enough to remember that in a nostalgic way. And when those blazing 14.4 modems came out, whooo-eee, CompuServe just flew by

I have an idea, but its only for my on benefit ..

I did upgrade to the Audiophile edition for both 2015 and 2016for Mac and it's worth every penny. I love the quality of the RTs, because I wanted all the RTs in .WAV to insure that had the highest quality RTs as possible. So far, I haven't been disappointed at all.

Ahhh the good old days.... sadly, the business I'm in... electronic security, while parts of it are on the cutting edge, the burg panels we have to use for residential and commercial systems, still use dial up and old fashioned modems from a serial port. Have you seen a serial port on any new laptop in the last 4 to 5 years.... yeah, me neither.

I have to use a USB to serial adapter... and only one specific brand model will work. The comm connection is a blazing 1200baud on some of the panels and 300baud on many of the older panels. Fortunately, fire panels are using USB connections in a plug and play manner with the software and it's possible to download an entire system in a few seconds. Even when I have my modem at the panel....as opposed to over the phone lines, it takes 5 minutes for some of the bigger panels to finish their upload.... then you edit.... then you download for the same amount of time.

I think some of the newer IP panels are able to DL over the Ethernet but I have yet to use that since the number of those panels I have operating on the IP protocol is small compared to the old school dial-up stuff.

Anyway...

Holy #### that's ancient stuff lol

PS, question: I've sketched out a few songs ("songs" might be a reach...just some general chords to play with really)...and on several where I kept the 2 bar ending, I've noticed it cuts off the ending, ie doesn't fully fade before stopping. Is that still an issue in 2016?

use the 4 bar ending.... it allows for the fade or you can disable the 2/4 bar ending and make your own ending. I do that quite often.... fade for as long as you want with the custom ones.