An open bug report sub-forum, where all users can report / replicate issues would be really, really great.

BIAB has a great community, and I'm pretty sure something like this would work very well:

https://forum.cockos.com/forumdisplay.php?f=22

I support a common location to report and include follow-up actions for issues identification and resolution. Currently, issues are lodged in many disparate places. Tracking must be difficult.

+1

A BIG +1

+1

I have seen on some software boards a separate "bug" reporting section where developer(s) update specific bug cases when they are solved / repaired. Sort of a timeline, not sporadic. VideoTrack is right on target.

I support this.

It has to be moderated, but it would have to be, by definition. The main reason is that there will be posts that are not bugs, but user error or just lack of knowledge. These posts can be relocated by the moderator to the 'normal' appropriate forum, where we can assist.

A good clarification Matt. Yes, moderation would be required, but this would be significantly better that the current method, or should I say 'non-method'.

Right. It would have to be up to PG Music to determine what is a bug, what is an intended feature even if a user disagrees (I’ve had one of those), and what just requires education.

The key to this working would be the company’s willingness to acknowledge the report and share the determination. It would be quite an undertaking. Indexing is needed so we can look up to see if something has already been reported.

Playing devil's advocate a little bit.

The idea or concept is good but I think it wold be almost impossible to implement without complaint. From PG Music's standpoint who manages or moderates the sub-forum? How many work hours per week are needed or should be dedicated to maintaining the sub-forum? If the sub-forum is managed by programmers that takes away from their programming time. If the sub forum is not managed by programmers how does the sub forum manager separate the wheat from the chaff? How does a non programmer know what's easy to do versus what needs to be done? Who sets priorities? Who updates the sub forum posts? Does PG Music set up a weekly meeting to manage the sub forum; that's more work hours lost. All that stuff takes time.

On the other hand will a sub forum make any of us (users) feel differently? Will we gain a better idea of what work is being done? Will a bug sub forum reduce the frustration of pet deficiencies not being fixed in what we consider a timely manner?

The issue I have is some of us work, or have worked, in a software or programming workplace and we have a mental image based on our work experience(s) how the bug identification and bug fix process should work. However we have absolutely no idea how our mental image matches the day-to-day programming work experience at PG Music. We are on the outside and can not even glimpse that workplace experience.

Having said that the overall work experience must be pretty gratifying since PG Music has more than its fair share of long term employees.

I think our issue as users is we'd like to see less new features, for existing features to reach their full potential and for known deficiencies to be resolved. A bug sub forum won't get our desires any closer to a resolution.

In conclusion I will say this, this isn't the first time a bug sub forum suggestion has been made. If a bug sub forum fits within PG Music's work experience it will happen, if not it will never happen. From the outside world the PG Music world advances at its own pace.

I don't support the suggestion because the suggestion has been previously made. If I didn't support the idea then I should have.

In addition I would like to see the option at any time to add to the message title something like the following:
1-solved-user error
2-solved through a workaround
3-bug-verified

This way the monitors would first look at the bug-verified messages then if time permits look at the workarounds to see if an improvement could be made.

Mario +1

+1, this would be really helpful. After a few days you can't edit the first post anymore, for example, I couldn't add "SOLVED" to the title here:

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=508121#Post508121

Great idea!

Definitely a +1 from me!

Yes, another great idea and clarification.

+1

+ !!

PS got a nice header proposal already, in case someone has fallen asleep:

+1 for the header too

P.S. What is in the bag that distant penguin is holding? Jar of horseradish, or it is simply a a bag with bugs?

It's actually a picnic basket. You see the penguin with the hamper is the wifey penguin, who was hoping to have a nice romantic picnic with her hubby, and is now extremely annoyed, and not a little baffled, that said hubby would rather be crashing some cymbals on a polar bear.

Cerio, as an aside, the forum software used to cut off editing after one day. I suggested that they increase the time we can edit the original post title to add *SOLVED* or FIXED - or some such, and they did it! I know it’s a few days now, not sure how far out, and that helps.

Yes, I know, but as I said, I tried to add "SOLVED" here and I couldn't:
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=508121#Post508121


That was seven days after the original post. Maybe they could consider increasing this time still a little bit more.

Not a bad idea. Some issues do take a week or more to resolve.

This is the forum discussion I REALLY wish anyone from PG Music would contribute to and provide a response.

It's a good, thoughtful and considered discussion with some great ideas but pretty much wishful thinking without buy-in from PG Music.

It would be really interesting to know what they think about that, absolutely.

Yet another forum? Few bother to read the forum FAQ's now. It wouldn't help a thing. I got continually slammed for pointing out posts in incorrect forums, so I finally gave up.

Bob

It would help to fix bugs, which is why this kind of forums (pretty common in modern software) exist.

A detailed report in a way that others can reproduce the problem is the best way of confirming if the issue is a genuine bug that needs to be fixed or if it's just user error, and is also a great help for developers:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=36653

Finally, the list of known problems derivated from such a forum would be really useful for a lot of forum members, specially for those dedicated to help others.

I see that Reaper has had a thorough bug-reporting feature since 2009. No wonder users advise of how robust Reaper is.

I am sure that many genuine issues are missed by PGM because there is no consolidated way of reporting such issues.

I found this thread whilst trying to find out how and where to report bugs. 'Nuff said, I think.

Quite a few companies are nervous of bug reporting in a public place, partly because they feel it might make them look bad and partly because they fear a deluge.

In practice I think such a reporting structure does give a consolidated means to identify and report, which helps to root out the real bugs from what my wife describes as a PICNIC, "problem in chair, not in computer", though the fields can be reversed :-).

It gives a place for people to search for what they think is a bug and see whether it's known, is a picnic, needs more information, has a workaround, or whatever.

The OpenSource community often does this very well, at least once a package reaches critical mass, think Ardour, Hydrogen, GIMP, LibreOffice, esoteric packages like Micromanager and of course Linux and the BSD derivatives themselves. Proprietery softwares also often do. Reaper is a good example, and the tie-in between Ardour and Harrison is another.

I've been an electronics professional since 1968 and a software professional since about 1970, so I know how hard it can sometimes be to fix a problem.

Almost always, the hardest part of fixing a problem is in being able to reproduce it reliably. There must be hundreds of thousands of BIAB users and some of those will put in some time to finding that "reproduce reliably".

Gordon, my background has some similarity to yours.

What some folks are suggesting is often handled in beta testing that they don’t see.

I don’t usually post potential bugs in the open forum; I do it in the beta testing forum where a smaller group of like-minded folks will educate me or confirm my suspicion. PG Music staff does interact with us there. Things do get fixed, often with the next build. When the company disagrees with a suggestion, you often (but not always) learn why.

There is no indexed curated bug list that users can see, and I think it could be appropriate and helpful there, but I have to say, we manage pretty well.

Thanks for your comments Gordon, which you have clearly articulated.

I do agree with you (and Matt) that issues can too often be perceived by users as a 'bug' when in fact they can be either a misunderstanding of how to use the software (picnic), or a feature that isn't even implemented viz: "I couldn't get the program to do this or that, so you need to fix this bug".

I have no way of absolutely knowing if all reported issues are received, but presumably (hopefully) the majority of them are.

It's clear that many are.

One of the things that happens with bugs and similar, is that after a while people just learn to avoid them by working around them, then they only show up rarely. I've clearly hit a number in my short steep learning curve, but it's hard sometimes to be sure what's really a bug and what isn't.

+1
Reaper has it down pat, but here you get attacked, and so many leave, it a shame that it ends up this way with many of us.
I have left many times but then seemed to get back in the ring to take another swing and now I'm too worn out, defeated and depleted these days as a decade at it takes it's toll.
If there is a flow and communication it's good, but things can drag out for years, simple industry standard things and cause stress and frustration :(:
Bye bye, BIAB

+1
Bug reporting (public!) forum so that more people with different setups could comment.

P.S. Just an opinion. I rather have 1-2 BIG yearly "features" (bar to bar regen/ more mixer tracks etc.) and compensate the other 45+ for working on stability / bug issues.