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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2012
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Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2012
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I just wanted to comment on the BIAB vocal remover plug in. I have tried some other vocal removal programs but I am very pleased with this one. I find that the fine tuning controls for the vocal removal work really well. Of course, the panning of the vocal track is key to being able to do a clean removal but I have had some decent luck with vocals don't appear to be panned to the center. I resort to doing this when I just cannot create a decent backing using BIAB syles.
I would love to hear your comments on this plug in and how, when and if you use it.
This is one (of the many) features of BIAB that drew me to it. I went through the cycle that some of you probably did before landing on BIAB of trying free or purchased backing tracks (limits us to what is available out there, hard to synchronize with count-in, intro, etc.), trying to use vocal removers to render good backing tracks, etc.
Any comments on ethics when doing this? I don't make any $$ performing (yet) just do gigs for free for my own and the audiences enjoyment.
Todd
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2012
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Todd
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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One post about removing vocals. Ok but I don't.
Next about adding harmonies? Odd? I don't either.
I just roll 90% real tracks. Press play.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Removing vocals from an existing recording and just using the accompaniment with you singing along is still using a copyrighted piece of material.
Will the copyright police show up at a small venue of friends? Probably not, but it's your decision. Me, I would rather use ACW to get the chord progression (or find it in a fake book) and create my own original arrangement of the song. If all they want to hear is the original CD, then they can play the original CD. But that's just me.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Fact is that if you create your own backing track for let's say "Hotel California", you're still performing copyrighted material.
Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi,
Whats the name of this plugin in biab, is it actually called "vocal remover" or is it the ACW we are talking about here?
Thanks
Musiclover
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Fact is that if you create your own backing track for let's say "Hotel California", you're still performing copyrighted material.
Correct, but venue licensing agreements permit cover songs to be played (otherwise, every cover song you hear at any venue is breaking the law). But using the non-vocal portion of an existing [mechanical] recording is blatant infringement, unless you have permission from the originator to do so (as I understand it).
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Quote:
Fact is that if you create your own backing track for let's say "Hotel California", you're still performing copyrighted material.
Correct, but venue licensing agreements permit cover songs to be played (otherwise, every cover song you hear at any venue is breaking the law). But using the non-vocal portion of an existing [mechanical] recording is blatant infringement, unless you have permission from the originator to do so (as I understand it).
You are correct as I understand it as well.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks for the responses. Especially nicely stated jford. I needed a morality check from others and I agree that using the recorded backing is infringement. I love working with BIAB and Realband so there is my answer! Dig in, work diligently and create the best arrangements of my favorite songs to the best of my ability. More satisfying anyway.
Todd
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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legality issues aside, the vocal remover is great for creating practice songs. In my experience, however, the overall quality gets compromised quite a bit when you remove the vocals. That limits the end result's usefulness as a backing track you'd want to use in front of an audience.
But the good news is that BIAB and RB make it so easy to produce excellent backing tracks, there is no longer any compelling reason to use vocal redux.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I use the ACW for every new song I do. I have for some time. I'll DL an MP3 from Amazon for $.99 . A little trick I learned about the ACW.
1. Visually set bar 1
2. Hit play and use F8 to tap in EVERY first beat of each measure. You get better chords I've found.
3. Go through and correct the chords while the song is playing
4. Go through and set part markers while the song is playing.
Add RTs & RDs as wanted.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Right John. I use the same method.
Todd
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Journeyman
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Mike, I've been in the music publishing business for 15 years in a rather significant way (we own a share of the current Tim McGraw #5 song and have had quite a few #1's on the country charts including Song of the Year with George Strait.
Your comment was partially correct but not entirely.
1. It is virtually impossible to copyright a series of chord changes. There would have to be something UTTERLY DISTINCTIVE about them and that is almost never true. There are literally thousands of blues and jazz tunes that have EXACTLY the same changes and they are not copyright violations.
2. You are correct that you cannot PERFORM a copyrighted work without a license because performance is one of the "exclusive rights" granted to authors/publishers under the Copyright Act. But the TRUTH is that performances of copyrighted works are virtually never enforced AGAINST THE PERFORMER. Performances ARE enforced against the VENUES...bars, night clubs etc. that are often attacked by BMI or ASCAP and required to obtain BLANKET licenses that allow them to perform any and all copyrighted works in their catalogs. But I've never heard of a BAND getting busted for performing a song in public venue for pay or otherwise.
3. So, you can create an arrangement of the CHORD CHANGES in BIAB to virtually any song without running afoul of the Copyright Act...as long as you don't include a MELODY track.
But the poster who stated that removing vocals from records and using them IS a copyright violation. In fact, it is TWO violations. One, the song itself is being infringed upon...assuming the original melody and/or lyrics are used and two, there is a SEPARATE copyright vested with the RECORD LABEL for THEIR particular version of the song.
Best,
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Hi,
Whats the name of this plugin in biab, is it actually called "vocal remover" or is it the ACW we are talking about here?
Thanks
Musiclover
reading through the responses I noticed this question was never addressed.
We're not talking about ACW... the vocal remover can be found among the PGMusic plugins. ( I think it *IS* named "vocal remover") It works by applying it to an audio track, same as all the other audio plugins.
As stated many times in the past, all of the PGMusic dialog boxes have a HELP button that leads to information on how to use the feature.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks Pat, I did actually find it and out of curiosity loaded an mp3 in biab on the audio track just to see what it could do, adjusted a few of the settings on it, but totally useless, maybe I'm doing something wrong.
The help won't open in windows 7 says something about downloading another program to view it
Musiclover
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Thanks Pat, I did actually find it and out of curiosity loaded an mp3 in biab on the audio track just to see what it could do, adjusted a few of the settings on it, but totally useless, maybe I'm doing something wrong.
The help won't open in windows 7 says something about downloading another program to view it
Musiclover
I had high hopes for it, but have never gotten results from it that I would be willing to use in public. Success really depends on the way the recording was made more than on the plugin. I have had redux songs that sounded totally vocal free, no residue whatsoever. MOST songs, however, leave residual reverb and the vocals are still noticeable in the reverb trail.
But even when vocals are completely eliminated, the overall sound quality is degraded more than I would like.
One thing I DO find useful about it: When I send vocal redux songs to ACW I get better results, because in the absence of vocals there are fewer notes to confuse the chord generating algorithm.
I also notice that if I continue developing the song with the tempo mapped version of the redux song as my guide track, I can hear the instruments better and it helps me to figure out the parts when I play along. Oftentimes I can hear details in the redux that I completely missed in the version with vocals.
Upshot is, if you consider the PG Music suite of programs as a complete music making package, the vocal reducer can still fit into a niche that makes it useful
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Mike, I've been in the music publishing business for 15 years in a rather significant way (we own a share of the current Tim McGraw #5 song and have had quite a few #1's on the country charts including Song of the Year with George Strait.
Your comment was partially correct but not entirely.
1. It is virtually impossible to copyright a series of chord changes. There would have to be something UTTERLY DISTINCTIVE about them and that is almost never true. There are literally thousands of blues and jazz tunes that have EXACTLY the same changes and they are not copyright violations.
2. You are correct that you cannot PERFORM a copyrighted work without a license because performance is one of the "exclusive rights" granted to authors/publishers under the Copyright Act. But the TRUTH is that performances of copyrighted works are virtually never enforced AGAINST THE PERFORMER. Performances ARE enforced against the VENUES...bars, night clubs etc. that are often attacked by BMI or ASCAP and required to obtain BLANKET licenses that allow them to perform any and all copyrighted works in their catalogs. But I've never heard of a BAND getting busted for performing a song in public venue for pay or otherwise.
3. So, you can create an arrangement of the CHORD CHANGES in BIAB to virtually any song without running afoul of the Copyright Act...as long as you don't include a MELODY track.
But the poster who stated that removing vocals from records and using them IS a copyright violation. In fact, it is TWO violations. One, the song itself is being infringed upon...assuming the original melody and/or lyrics are used and two, there is a SEPARATE copyright vested with the RECORD LABEL for THEIR particular version of the song.
Best,
Jim
This is pretty much what I thought however getting an explanation from some one closer to the issue was nice. Thanks.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Apprentice
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Hey Pat,
That's a great idea to use the vocal remover before using ACW. I often get some strange chord results I am sure from ACW becoming confused with the harmony parts.
Todd
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
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