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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 5 |
I've used BIAB for decades, but never really dug into it. The interface has always been very non-intuitive. But, I now have version 2017 and decided to commit to getting to know it better. To that end, I wanted to be able to record a MIDI keyboard input, but have found it difficult and after extensive looking and reading, cannot find if there is a better way.
Here's where I'm at now.
When not recording or playing back the song I can hear MIDI keyboard input. It appears to be using a the Microsoft CS Wavetable synth. In any case, it sounds cheesy and completely unusable latency (>100 ms).
When playing back the song, whether or not I'm recording, I hear the synth assigned to the "thru" track. Latency is short and acceptable.
After recording, the MIDI is now either on the "melody" or "soloist" track, depending one which was selected when recording. Of course now, the patch is whatever is assigned to the "melody" or "soloist" tracks.
Is this really the best that can be done? Do I have to continually reset the "thru" track and "melody/soloist" tracks to match so that what I hear will be the same?
It would seems to make a lot more sense to hear the sound as it would be on the track it is actually getting recorded to, like every DAW or sequencer I've ever used.
Also, the keyboard works as expected, with all other programs. I don't think this is a MIDI keyboard problem, but just a how BIAB works. And I'm hoping there is something I've overlooked to make this work a bit more smoothly.
Another odd thing, the keyboard is outputting on MIDI channel 1, yet the BIAB MIDI monitor shows the key activity as being on channel 5. This makes no sense to me.
Any guidance would be appreciated.
Thanks,
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 164
DonCarlos
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DonCarlos
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 164 |
I also plan to first experiments with MIDI keyboard guitar exist at Veterans recommendations:
- how to do it
- What are the best hardware and software MIDI instruments that have tested with Win10 (including drivers)
- What kind of sound card recommended
Karel Jacko alias Don Carlos - Czech Republic Dealer PG Music, Inc - +420 604 111 102, +420 602 561 567 mobil - Band Leader Groups Jazz za Bukem and Hot Jazz Sutrs; - BIAB 2020 Win10; BIAB 2019 MAC; - Roland GK-3 Divided Pickup (Guitar and Bass); Roland GR-20 Guitar Synth; - MOTU UltraLite mk3 (Firewire); Fishman Tripleplay - MacBookPro 13 with touchbar 2018, Wiki BIAB czech support page wiki.zabukem.eu
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114 |
Hi
This is a bit complicated to explain but here is my take.
Your midi keyboard sends its data to the software over Ch1
The through track is just that, it passé your note and midi data that you play through to the internal pc midi synth say Microsoft GS Wavetable, or any other external hardware midi synth or sound module that you select in midi settings, it sends this to ch5 of the receiving synth, you may chose the patch for this in the through track.
This is what you hear when playing or recording.
If you chose to record to the melody track the note and midi data that you play gets written here on the melody track what you are hearing is the through voice chosen previously from the chosen internal or external synth.
Now when you play back you song your notes and data are coming from the melody track the melody track sends its data on ch4 using the patch selected for the melody patch. The data is sent depending on you midi set to either your dxi synth if the box is ticked or to your internal or external midi synth or module as selected.
Later edit
Note the thru track does not have to routed to the midi internal or external synth drivers just don’t tick the box in midi set up
It will then go to your VST dxi if selected the ch assignment are still as stated
Hope this helps a bit
Best regards
Mike
Last edited by Mike Head; 01/24/17 05:22 AM.
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,583
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,583 |
Spitfire wrote:
I've used BIAB for decades, but never really dug into it. The interface has always been very non-intuitive. But, I now have version 2017 and decided to commit to getting to know it better. To that end, I wanted to be able to record a MIDI keyboard input, but have found it difficult and after extensive looking and reading, cannot find if there is a better way.
Here's where I'm at now.
When not recording or playing back the song I can hear MIDI keyboard input. It appears to be using a the Microsoft CS Wavetable synth. In any case, it sounds cheesy and completely unusable latency (>100 ms).
If you are using MME (versus ASIO), then you are going to have latency, unless you are passing through to a hardware synth (such as a keyboard).
When playing back the song, whether or not I'm recording, I hear the synth assigned to the "thru" track. Latency is short and acceptable.
The Thru track is just that; it allows input from an external source (keyboard, MIDI guitar, etc.) to play either to an assigned VSTi or your default synth port, depending upon your settings. Playback of a song doesn't use the thru port. An additional feature of the thru port is that BIAB can capture that input and record it to either the Melody or Soloist track. And if you want the instrument playing on the thru track to play back with the same instrument on the Melody track, you need to manually select that same patch on the Melody track.
After recording, the MIDI is now either on the "melody" or "soloist" track, depending one which was selected when recording. Of course now, the patch is whatever is assigned to the "melody" or "soloist" tracks.
Yep, that's the way it works. You record something from the thru track (and the instrument you hear depends upon what you selected for that track). But what gets recorded to Melody or Soloist is just the note data, not the actual sounds. You have to set that yourself.
Is this really the best that can be done? Do I have to continually reset the "thru" track and "melody/soloist" tracks to match so that what I hear will be the same?
It works as described above. I would suggest putting in a wishlist item that says something to the effect of "if I record to the melody track from the thru track, then automatically apply the same settings to the melody track (or soloist track)".
It would seems to make a lot more sense to hear the sound as it would be on the track it is actually getting recorded to, like every DAW or sequencer I've ever used.
See previous comment
Also, the keyboard works as expected, with all other programs. I don't think this is a MIDI keyboard problem, but just a how BIAB works. And I'm hoping there is something I've overlooked to make this work a bit more smoothly.
Another odd thing, the keyboard is outputting on MIDI channel 1, yet the BIAB MIDI monitor shows the key activity as being on channel 5. This makes no sense to me.
As I understand it, the thru track accepts input from any of the 16 channels, but processes it on channel 5 internally once it receives the input, and then passes it along to the melody track to be converted to channel 4 (or soloist track on channel - anyway, I think it's channel 8).
Any guidance would be appreciated.
Hope this helps.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114 |
Hi all Yes John ch 8 for soloist. Spitfire, If you want to see the current ch assignment in BIAB go to options / preferences / channels see my pic. You will notice amongst other things that BIAB does not use ch 1 for any of its own parts the first mixer track Bass uses ch 2 Best regards Mike 
Last edited by Mike Head; 01/24/17 06:45 AM.
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 5 |
Seems that the behavior is normal for BIAB, if unusual for music programs in general (at least any I've used).
Why not just route the incoming MIDI to the melody or soloist track like a DAW would do? It's be so much less confusing.
Anyway, thanks to all for the input. At least I know I'm doing it the way it needs to be done in BIAB.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,583
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,583 |
Why not just route the incoming MIDI to the melody or soloist track like a DAW would do? It's be so much less confusing. Because BIAB is not a DAW; it's also used by many for live performance. Having the thru track allows you to have a melodist and soloist track already ready recorded while you play along. Sure, they could have done it differently, but that's the way they implemented WAAAYY back when and it's been that way ever since. If they route input to the melody or soloist track, you still have to tell it where to go and what instruments to use. Just like when you move a track from the melody to soloist track, you still have to configure the soloist track. In RealBand, however, you just record to the track you want and you can copy one track to another with all settings intact. But BIAB isn't RealBand and vice versa. If you want this behavior to change, you'll have to add it to the wishlist, but I like having the Thru track (once I understood it). That being said, even with the current architecture, I like the idea of copying all the track settings over when you record a melody or soloist track, and I like the idea of being able to "copy" the melody track to the soloist track (and vice versa) with all settings/effects/etc intact. It think I'll head over to the wishlist now...
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 5 |
John,
I understand BIAB is not a DAW, but there are still common ways of doing things. And there's nothing about having the option to assign a MIDI input to a track that would preclude being able to assign it somewhere else such as letting it thru.
And I realize much of BIAB goes way back. There's a balance to be struck with any software between keeping the old, that many customers are used to using, and updating to be more modern. BIAB is a great program in terms of what can be done with it. But it has always been unnecessarily difficult to use.
I've used it on and off for decades, but never got beyond banging in some chords and selecting a style, because it was so hard to understand. This time, I have committed to gaining more understanding and trying to make better use of it.
As with most software, I'm sure that once I know how to do it, it will be fine.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,583
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,583 |
Please see my wishlist request I just made regarding this...we'll see what the future holds.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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