|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 80
Enthusiast
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 80 |
How do songwriters come up with the vocal harmonies? They are just the salt, the frosting, the ketchup. (maybe you can think of some non-food analogies)
But I just can't to seem to envision them.
I have my words and melody, verse-chorus structure, chord progression, ritards, crescendos etc, but I need to be able to think up some vocal harmonies, because when I listen to songs, I love them so much.
Is it a matter of getting background singers to improvise, or is there an accepted method, a typical way to devise them?
Are there any musicians out there who can give me some guidance on this?
Kerkenat
If ever a man had it all, it would have to be me, and ooh I love you
Climax Blues Band
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,301
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,301 |
How much theory do you know? That would be a great start, to learn chord structure, inversions, etc....
Now if you are asking how do they come up with lines that are counter to the melody, like with lyrics that are not what the melody singer did or singing along with the melody, that is going to come from your creativity alone.
You can also buy hardware known as a Vocoder that will sing the notes that you play into it while you sing. I use one of those. They are everywhere on the internet.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,921
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,921 |
Eddie, do you really mean a robot-voiced Vocoder? Or do you mean a harmonizer? Enquiring minds, etc.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
Quote:
Eddie, do you really mean a robot-voiced Vocoder? Or do you mean a harmonizer? Enquiring minds, etc.
Eddie's talking about a modern vocoder. All of the good harmonizers have a vocoder mode. With a typical harmonizer yu get harmonies that are based on the chords and the sung melody however the computer in the thing determines the harmonies.In vocoder mode you play midi notes into it and it will sing those notes. In this way if you know how to arrange you can get the harmonizer to sing EXACT lines.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,583
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,583 |
BIAB can create different harmonies based on the melody. Why not generate some in BIAB based on your melody line and chord progression, and then sing those generated notes as your harmony.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,301
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,301 |
I have one called The Vocalist by Digitech. Very old school legacy type piece of equipment. There's really nothing specifically built for the "robot" sound I think you mean. I have 50 presets in mine. Male, female, 2 part, 3 part, different chord voicings.... It has a MIDI in and a MIC in. You plug in the mic, you plug in the MIDI, set the keyboard and device to the same MIDI channel, and yoru mouth becoems the trigger for the keys. You can press keys all you like but nothing will come out of the vocoder until you say something into the mic. You CAN make it sound like that, but I don't choose to use it that way.
The newer schools units just kind of follow along as you go. Similar in concept but newer technology.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,025
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,025 |
Quote:
BIAB can create different harmonies based on the melody. Why not generate some in BIAB based on your melody line and chord progression, and then sing those generated notes as your harmony.
I agree 110% with that statement.
To sort of answer your question, follow your melody and the notes in the current chord it is using will you give you your 3rd and 5ths etc. for the vocal harms.
Biab will allow you to generate a 1up / 1 dn with the TC Helicon in it. If you are going to use the TC Helicon, make sure your lead vocal track is mono format, clean (no reverb/chorus) and in tune PRIOR to generating the TC Harms with. You can send them (harms) to their own, mono tracks and then sing/record them and they will sound natural vs the robotic effect the TC comes up with.
Mixing them with the PG pre-set vocal effects will allow them to sit in the mix and sound fantastic, if done properly.
Trax
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 10
Newbie
|
|
Newbie
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 10 |
I do my own harmonies. I do not use vocoder. I simply listen to the chords and what will sound good.
I learned this from listening to and finding the harmonies in Bee Gees songs. Plus, God blessed me with a very broad range )over 4 octaves).
Now I can just harmonize at will. I recorded The Rose with a five part harmony in the third verse, and I have been told by a record producer that if I had not been 9 years old when Bette Midler first recorded it, they would have probably used me.
But that vocoder will save me some time. Hmmmm....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,250
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,250 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,301
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,301 |
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
4 and 5 part harmony usually ends up sounding rather "barbershop" in nature, but not always.
Most Pop songs, you'll find one of three basic harmonies being used:
"One Up, One Down" -- Where the Melody note is in between the two harmony notes, either following the Triad dicatated by the chord at that time in the song, or perhaps generated by a certain Melody in a "Linear" harmony. This is the most commonly used vocal harmony.
"Two Up" -- Melody is on the bottom, with two harmony notes above it.
"Two Down" -- Just the opposite, Melody on top, two harmnoy notes below it.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,301
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,301 |
Mac.... and then you have Walk Away Renee where the harmonies cross ALL over the place!! LOL!
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Quote:
How do songwriters come up with the vocal harmonies? They are just the salt, the frosting, the ketchup. (maybe you can think of some non-food analogies)
But I just can't to seem to envision them.
I have my words and melody, verse-chorus structure, chord progression, ritards, crescendos etc, but I need to be able to think up some vocal harmonies, because when I listen to songs, I love them so much.
Is it a matter of getting background singers to improvise, or is there an accepted method, a typical way to devise them?
Are there any musicians out there who can give me some guidance on this?
Kerkenat
I like your use of the term "ENVISION" regarding a sound phenomenon. But it works in the sense of conceptualizing something that is abstract.
When I have a hard time conceptualizing the abstract, I go to the nearest concrete example. BIAB's harmonist has already predefined just about every possible way to build a harmony. If you already have a melody, take some time to play and learn. Generate each of the harmony options with your melody, and take note of the results. After you get familiar with the possibilities, you'll begin to notice which types of harmonies are used in commercial songs
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
there are 3 basic types of harmonies: (some may disagree, but I offer this as an example only)
---------------------
CHORDAL harmonies are based on the current chord, and the harmony note is generally any other note in the current chord besides the melody note. The variations in chordal harmonies come from placement of the harmony note in relation to the melody (above or below). The examples Mac gave are all options used in chordal harmonies. Chordal harmonies tend to be less active than other harmonies, because the harmony note doesn't have to change every time the melody note changes... it just has to be in the current chord.
---------------------
SCALIC harmonies are based on the song's key. Scalic harmonies tend to pick one or more notes in the scale and consistently add that note to the melody note.
Let's call the scale Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do. a "Thirds" harmony would work like this:
melody / harmony
-----------------
Do / Mi
Mi / So
La / Do
(1st) / (3rd)
a "fifths" harmony would work like this
melody / harmony
------------------
Do / So
Mi / Ti
(1st) / (5th)
the actual notes used would depend on the key
This type of melody is very active because the harmony note changes every time the melody note changes.
------------------
I don't remember the third kind, but I bet others here will know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,301
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,301 |
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,301
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,301 |
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,900
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,900 |
Very fitting subject today... RIP Robin Gibb
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 163
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 163 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,301
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,301 |
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,635
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,635 |
There are a number of ways to think about harmonies. The most basic way is for them to essentially parallel the melody. That is, they have the same duration as the melody notes, and move in the same direction of the melody. The trick is to select notes that sound good with the melody. A couple of rules of thumb to keep in mind: - Notes of the chord sound good.
- Intervals of thirds and sixths sound good.
- Intervals of fifths and octaves sound good, too. But thirds and sixths in a row sound better. (More on that later).
- In two-part harmony, have both a "basic tone" (root or fifth of the chord) with a "guide tone" (third or seventh of the chord).
A "guide" tone differs from a "basic" tone in that it tells something about the quality of the chord (major/minor/dom7, etc.). Having both a "basic" and "guide" tone gives you a good harmony because even with only two notes, you still have the essential quality of the chordal harmony. A simple way to fulfill all the above is to select a chordal tone that lies above or below the melody note, and place it below the melody note. For example, if the melody note was a "C" and the chord was Am7 (A-C-E-G), you could select an "A" (since it's the pitch below the C in the Am7 chord) or an E (the pitch above the C in the chord). A caveat to the above rule: Don't use the 7th of a Maj7 chord, or you might end up with a minor second in the harmony, which is pretty dissonant. In general, you want to avoid intervals of a second in the harmony, except for brief passing dissonances. Every melody note doesn't have to be harmonized with a chords. Notes of short duration (less than a quarter note) or that don't fall on a strong beat (beats 2 or 4 are "weak" beats) create passing dissonances which don't have to be harmonized. Harmonizing every note gives a very "fussy" arrangement that sounds more like a church hymn than a pop song. Along those lines, try to keep a "common tone" when the harmony changes. For example, if you've got an "F" chord (F-A-C) and a Am7 chord (A-C-E-G), choosing the "A" or "C" note will work for both chords. So if you choose that as a harmony note, you can stay on it when the chord changes. Another way to think about harmony is as a counter melody to the melody. Some general rules of thumb for counter-melodies: - When the melody is busy, the counter melody should be simple (longer note durations than the melody) - and the other way around, too. This keeps each part clear.
- In general, the counter-melody should move in the opposite direction of the melody. This makes each part independent of the other. Obviously, they two will move in the same direction at times (usually in intervals of thirds and sixths). But the more they move in opposite motion, the more they will sound like counterpoint.
- If you use an interval of a fifth or an octave, avoid following it with another interval of a fifth or octave. This is called "parallel fifths" or "parallel octaves". These are both strong harmonic intervals, and using two of these intervals creates such a strong harmony that it destroys the feeling of an independent line.
A counter-melody with no dissonance (all thirds and sixths) tends to be pretty bland, so the introduction of some dissonant interval that resolves adds a welcome relief. The most common way for this to happen in via a suspension. This happens when one of the two notes changes, creating a dissonant interval. The note that didn't change then moves stepwise (typically downward) to resolve the dissonance. For example: E-C "E" on top - consonant interval of a third E-B "C" moves down to a "B", creating a dissonant interval of a fourth D-B "E" moves down to a "D", creating a consonant interval of a third It's called a "suspension" because the one voice changes, leaving the other "suspended" until is resolves downward. It's a very effective device, and you can have chains of suspensions. (But don't overdo it!) Like a lot of things in music, these are often best worked out backwards. As with almost everything else in music, simple is usually better. It's more effective to have less harmony, and put in contrast with monophonic sections. That's the theory, in a nutshell. Being able to sing it... that's a different matter. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,587
Posts734,749
Members38,500
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean