Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
#130390 10/04/11 05:08 AM
Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 358
Journeyman
OP Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 358
Hi all
My music computer is in the basement & I use a router to access the internet. The transmitter is connected to the cable box upstairs, as the crow flies, a distance of perhaps ten feet. My computer has a G force 7 vidio card & a Creative Audigy 2 sound card. Not the latest I know but work fine usually. My nephew is in Vancouver & I am in Ottawa & we are attempting to play together via Skype. He is vocal & guitar. I'm pedal steel. We see & talk fine but when we play, the audio breaks up completely. The camera is a new Microsoft product with built in mic. My questions are. Is it because Skype won't work well with a router? Are there good & not so good routers? My router is a Belkin "G". Your advice will be greatly appreciated...Hank

Rutabago #130391 10/04/11 07:01 AM
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439
Voip and video conference/video call type facilities are not real time, they nearly are, but not quite, especially across the internet.

It might be possible to set Quality of Service (QoS) in your router to prioritise the appropriate protocols, but... The compression algorithms in the codecs are also somewhat lossy. The sheer quantity of data in the music and video will not be helping. In addition, many ISP's reduce priority on Voip and video call data that are not generated by services they directly provide - this could be happening anywhere along the data link.

The other thing to note is that packets containing this kind of data are not guaranteed to be delivered. If packets get out of order or dropped somewhere along the way they are not resent, the philosophy being that maintaining the flow of data in a timely fashion is more imnportant than data accuracy so missed packets stay missed.

Have you found that some times of day are better than others? If so, this could indicate that system load outside your home services could be where the real problem lies.


--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya laugh --=--
You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
Lawrie #130392 10/04/11 07:09 AM
Off-Topic
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,783
R
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
R
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,783
Also a "G" router is a bit slow, i thing the newer "N" routers are far faster.

But VoIP is going to be a problem for audio signal in "realtime" for something as difficult as live music. You might look into something a little more connected like a VPN tunnel, or something that is more dedicated. Still I think you are asking a lot.


Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
Rutabago #130393 10/04/11 07:15 AM
Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
M
Mac Offline
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Quote:

... We see & talk fine but when we play, the audio breaks up completely. The camera is a new Microsoft product with built in mic. My questions are. Is it because Skype won't work well with a router? Are there good & not so good routers? My router is a Belkin "G". Your advice will be greatly appreciated...Hank





If you can hear each other at the same time, but it is a matter of distortion, investigate the sound LEVEL of the instruments into the mics. Could easily be overdriving the audio stage. When you talk, you are not creating anywhere near the Sound Pressure Levels that amplified instruments may be generating in the same space.

Another factor that likely rears its ugly head here is one of Bandwidth. The spoken voice only requires about 2 to 3 KHz of bandwidth for intelligibility and a digital service such as Skype likely limits the Bandwidth available to you to somewhere in that area. Thus they can fit quite a few more phonecalls into the same territory that one fullrange audio connect would require. These days, fullrange audio of CD quality is considered to be "20 to 20" or more orecisely, from 20Hz at the bottom end to 20 KiloHertz at the treble side. Muscial instruments will generate tones completely outside the bandwidth of a digital voice connection and that may also lead to something that can be described as audio distortion - and there ain't no cure. Can;t fit twenty pounds of you-know-what into a three-pound sack.

To find out if it is your Router ahould be dead simple, actually: Eliminate the router from the chain as a temporary experiment. May have to carry the computer somewhere to the router on that day, or perhaps just use a long network cable to attach directly to the modem, bypassing the router entirely and see what happens then. I wouldn't think that the Router could cause audio breakup, but you are still likely to incur bad SYNC problems as a digital phone line such as Skype provides does not necessarily happen in Realtime, there are plenty of places where digital delay will come into the equation, good enough for conversation but not very likely able to be used with music. You should have TWO wait state situations going on, one on your transmissions and another at the other end coming back to you. It does not work in realtime like the old analog phone systems did, which were also a tad bit out of realtime due to certain delays of wire length and amplification, microwave linking, etc. but were still a lot closer to realtime in many cases.

I doubt if Skype can be used for the purpose of jamming music in realtime due to the syncing problem.


--Mac

Mac #130394 10/04/11 09:18 AM
Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 358
Journeyman
OP Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 358
Thanks all for replies. I did carry instruments, Amps etc. upstairs, eliminating the router & everything worked well. No break up. No sync problems, just a sore back. I will look into the "N" type router....Thanks again....Hank

Rutabago #130395 10/05/11 04:55 AM
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439
Umm, hold it, were you talking about a router or an access point? You CANNOT connect to the internet without a router of some kind (may sometimes be called a modem, but it will incorporate a router function), but an access point is for wireless (WiFi) - some routers also have WiFi support E.G. there is certainly a Belkin router that supports wireless G as well as the necessary routing function...


--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya laugh --=--
You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
Lawrie #130396 10/05/11 05:20 AM
Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 358
Journeyman
OP Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 358
No Lawrie, I meant that the upstairs router does not involve the wirless router. It is dirct to the cable box. Thanks for your interest...Hank

Rutabago #130397 10/05/11 07:25 AM
Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
M
Mac Offline
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Quote:

Thanks all for replies. I did carry instruments, Amps etc. upstairs, eliminating the router & everything worked well. No break up. No sync problems, just a sore back. I will look into the "N" type router....Thanks again....Hank




Good show.

But I would prefer to simoly run a wire if at all possible.

1) Cost effective, even if you have to purchase a ready-made cable of a set length to make the trip.

2) Bandwidth of the wire is almost always going to be bigger (and thus also faster) than any wireless situation will be.

3) The cable connect is much more robust than wireless.



--Mac

Mac #130398 10/05/11 08:48 AM
Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 358
Journeyman
OP Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 358
Thanks Mac
Is the length of the connecting cable relevent? Drilling holes large enought to pass the plug, taking the short route, versus down the hall then down the stairs etc. I would guess the long route is roughly 40ft.....Hank

Rutabago #130399 10/05/11 02:26 PM
Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
M
Mac Offline
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
100 feet would be just fine. So you are good to go.

If you want to snake only wirepass holes and have the knowhow, equipment (long flex drillbit and fishtape) then you might look into cable with no ends and pick up some ends and the proper crimping tool. I ran a line outside of my friend's house and down the outside wall with appropriate cable clamps, that sometimes is an easy straight run, just pick up a couple of thruwall kits designed for outdoor use for the two holes. And don't forget the all-inmportant dripleg loop downwards on the cable at each point so that water will run off the cable onto the ground outside and not down the cable and inside the wall...


--Mac

Lawrie #130400 10/05/11 05:17 PM
Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,293
Veteran
Online Content
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,293
Quote:

Umm, hold it, were you talking about a router or an access point? You CANNOT connect to the internet without a router of some kind (may sometimes be called a modem, but it will incorporate a router function), but an access point is for wireless (WiFi) - some routers also have WiFi support E.G. there is certainly a Belkin router that supports wireless G as well as the necessary routing function...




This is nitpicking, but the true definition of a router in a home use context is "a device that allows sharing of one connection". The device that actually connects is not a router. It has become an interchangeable term in the last 10 years or so, but to say "you can not connect without a router" is incorrect. And with cable and DSL, modem is not technically correct either, since with digital signal, there is no MOdulate/DEModulate going on.

So to the original poster, you need to get your terms straight. The MODEM (and I will defer to the masses in using that term) is the connection device. The router shares your one connection with many workstations on your network. Networking school defines router as "a device that connects networks", and that is accurate here as you are connecting your (inside your house) network to your (internet provider's) network. So if you have one computer, you can indeed connect without a router.

Now, the topic was SKYPE, or some other VOIP type communication device/network (Vonage, VOIP.com, etc) and THEY confuse the issue further by calling THEIR device a router. And then you get the combo devices that are a router and DSL modem in one (2Wire, Sagecom, Netopia) and I don't know WHAT to call those!!! Mouters? Rodems?


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439
With respect Eddie, I was not nit picking - my original answer was predicated upon the device being a router, NOT an access point - I had no idea he was using wireless - if I had I would have had a whole set of other responses that would have been far more relevant.

FYI I make my living working with this stuff.

Quote:


The device that actually connects is not a router. It has become an interchangeable term in the last 10 years or so, but to say "you can not connect without a router" is incorrect.




Actually, every DSL modem you've ever seen IS a router (unless it has been configured as a bridge which will allow another piece of equipment to perform the login function - if this device is you computer then that is the only time there won't be a router in your home on a DSL connection) as it will be performing NAT (Network Address Translation) which is a router function.

In addition, there is most certainly a MOdulation/DEModulation function for a cable connection I.E. a modem of some kind. If your cable provider gives you an ethernet port to connect to that's fine, but on the other end of that is a modem which they will have supplied. Even in a fibre to the home situation there is a conversion from optical to electrical media - usually called a media converter, but it will still fill the bill as a modem - though in this case it needn't necessarily be a router as well (though it probably will).

Last edited by Lawrie; 10/05/11 07:24 PM.

--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya laugh --=--
You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
Lawrie #130402 10/05/11 07:30 PM
Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 358
Journeyman
OP Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 358
Mac, you dont' happen to live close by? Didn't think so.I have friends that I am going to show your suggestion to. It won't be for a few days as I will be enjoying a week of USA hospitality. Michigan to be exact. Big family wedding. thanks, I will let you know how it all works out....Hank

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

New with the DAW Plugin Version 6.0, released with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows: the Reaper® Panel!

This new panel offers built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper® tracks!

When you run the Plugin from Reaper®, there is a panel to set the following options:
-BB Track(s) to send: This allows you to select the Plugin tracks that will be sent Reaper.
-Destination Reaper Track: This lets you select the destination Reaper track to receive media content from the Plugin.
-At Bar: You can select a bar in Reaper where the Plugin tracks should be placed.
-Start Below Selected Track: This allows you to place the Plugin tracks below the destination Reaper track.
-Overwrite Reaper Track: You can overwrite previous content on the destination Reaper track.
-Move to Project Folder: With this option, you can move the Plugin tracks to the Reaper project folder.
-Send Reaper Instructions Enable this option to send the Reaper Instructions instead of rendering audio tracks, which is faster.
-Render Audio & Instructions: Enable this option to generate audio files and the Reaper instructions.
-Send Tracks After Generating: This allows the Plugin to automatically send tracks to Reaper after generating.
-Send Audio for MIDI Track: Enable this option to send rendered audio for MIDI tracks.
-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.

Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video

The new Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin Verion 6 adds over 20 new features!

Watch the new features video to learn more: Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2024 - DAW Plugin Version 6 New Features

We also list these new features at www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.plugin.htm.

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,390
Posts732,456
Members38,441
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
Ernest J, ingridguerci94, Izzy, BenChaz, Csofi
38,440 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 195
Al-David 124
DC Ron 113
dcuny 87
rsdean 83
Today's Birthdays
CeeDee, SethMould
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5