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I am curious if I could get some feed back from all of you on your feelings on interest level for a jingle course. I know (and own) several of the best selling ones out there. The problem with the majority of the courses is the material is out-dated (as in talking about taking your cassette tapes with you to the client, or how to dub them on your boombox) and for lack of a better term..bloated (as in it's 400 pages, 1 sided, with HUGE margins for you to take your notes in...or it's 100 page book that they wanted you to feel you were getting your money's worth  ) I was even asked to put something together for a college...and now that I think about it songu at one point. At the time, it wasn't of much interest to me. I am seriously considering doing something direct from me to the client. Perhaps even offering coaching. Share any and all thoughts please  As always, it's appreciated!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I've always split this kind of music into 2 categories...
Jingles are written by a songwriter for a specific use.....say Bob's Chevrolet dealership.... "Come buy a car, and you'll go far, at Bob's Chev-ro-let" short and uhhhh well, the operative term is "sweet".... catchy melody, and "goofy" lyrics
Then there's cues.... music that sets a mood, feeling, emotion behind the scene or voice-over. Generally a 50/50 mix of instrumental vs universal lyric songs. I have written, and write as well as prefer the instrumental cues..... anything from 5 sec to 30 sec generally.
The book "Shortcuts to Writing for Film & TV" by Robin Frederick.... offered by TAXI, is quite good and keeps things concise and limited to a page or two on each topic or subtopic. Very good book and I recommend it to anyone wanting to get involved in this side of the music biz.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/13/15 01:42 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Herb, I think you misunderstood what I meant. I have been a jingle writer/producer for the last 20 years. I am looking at writing a course on how to do just that. I should also clarify, this is not something I have made yet. I'm judging interest. Of course, this is not the only place I am gathering data. Thanks for any input.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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No interest? No thoughts?
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I think I got the idea correctly.... but didn't address it directly in my reply.
If you're going to write a new book or course on the topic, using this forum as a way to judge interest might not be the best idea. This is one of those things that you have to research and decide for yourself if there's even a market for the new product. Publishers may tell you it's not a good idea because there's already so many books on the market that cover this and it's not exactly an area of huge interest to most writers.
Can the market stand to have a new book/course on this? What new info does it bring to light? Will people be willing to part with the $30 or so it will cost? What if the publishers are not interested?
Of course, only you can decide to go ahead or not with this project. With the internet, there's no telling, it could very well be successful and another source of income.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I wouldn't worry about any of that GH.
HTL, write your course and get out there and hustle it. Writing a book is just as tough as songwriting, just do it and see what you can do with it.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Hi, HTL !
I just love well composed and sung
jingles (like those by Johnny Mann)!
Maybe it is no wonder as I am a barbershopper
who likes to sing multiple voices and
the best jingles are just that !!!:)))
Cheers
Dani
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Is there enough interest to warrant the time and effort to write the book? You could also ask if there's any point in making music software. The market is saturated, and musicians aren't making any money, for the most part. But, all those people who have music making software and who aren't making money are looking for a niche to explore where they might actually make the software pay for itself. Jingle writing is such a niche. So it becomes a moot point whether or not there is a need. There is a POSSIBILITY, and that seems to be enough for most people to make a purchase. I say go for it, if you have the time and knowledge to undertake such a project.
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HTL, write your course and get out there and hustle it. Writing a book is just as tough as songwriting, just do it and see what you can do with it.
Bob That's how I see it. It appears there's little extensive research to be done as you already have the experience, connections to collaborate a bit with and some desire. So... if you really like to write it's just matter of organizing your thoughts, approach and make it engaging enough to make it interesting and distinguish itself from other books on the subject. For you....that just may be the most difficult part of making it a successful project. Whether it's fiscally successful over time or not you still have something to be proud of. One doesn't know until one tries. Should you decide to take it on I'll wish you good luck....keep us informed.
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 05/13/15 04:37 PM.
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Go for it, you have the knowledge and experience and you want to share. This is very commendable. If you can present it differently to what is already on the market it will be a success. Just think of all the "for Dummies" series, they didn't touch on new subjects, just packaged it differently.
Chris
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Hey, thank you everyone for the input! I get it has been done before, but has also been pointed out, so have many other things. The Apple had it's biggest profits to date with the Iphone 6. Now that being said, it obviously had to be something different to generate those sales/profits. I do think I bring something unique from the other courses I've seen. Exactly as Sinbad said with the dummies series of books. Break the entire process down to be extremely simple. Have people realize ANYONE could truly do it! I do believe that too! From what I have seen with studio owners, writers, even salespeople...they talk a lot of BS to cover up what is common sense. Time and time again I tell people the truth of how things work, and they seem to recognize it when they hear it! It's a great feeling. I think this course could be very similar! It doesn't take you years, months or even weeks to learn this! Yet, most of the people I work with go a lifetime not knowing. It's no one thing, it's maybe 9 little things. It's not a gift. It's learned. And it can be learned REALLY fast...or never. I think the biggest problem I would encounter is, it wouldn't be a huge course. As a result, people may not see the value in it. So, I feel that is the obstacle to overcome. That may be why the others are so bloated. Perception of what you are getting. To the drawing/writing board. Just a show of hands, who prefers videos to reading?
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Hi, HTL !
I just love well composed and sung
jingles (like those by Johnny Mann)!
Maybe it is no wonder as I am a barbershopper
who likes to sing multiple voices and
the best jingles are just that !!!:)))
Cheers
Dani Hey Dani, have you poked around on youtube by chance? There are a lot of older jingle sessions on there. I think they are really cool to see! The trend now is more towards jingles sounding like current songs. That hasn't always been the case.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I've really been noticing the background music in ads since this thread started. Anyone who spends just one day of watching videos on YouTube is going to be inundated with ads, most of which contain music (for which somebody got paid)
In another thread I posted some links to video devices which I think have very compelling snippets of music in their ads. I'd post more, but we're all on the web, and I'm sure we've all been exposed to many of the same ads.
The takeaway this particular group should get from all this is that we have software and related skills that are perfect for the rapid development of song snippets. The remaining piece of the puzzle is "how do I translate my song writing experience into money in TODAY'S paradigm of internet ads (which is different than the previous paradigm of ads which predominantly aired on radio and TV)
HTL, if you can produce a how-to book, get it on Amazon and document its effectiveness with success stories, I think you will be well-positioned to make some money.
I think it would need to be oriented more toward marketing the service in today's world than toward the musical part of how to write jingles. Artists don't want to be told how to do their art, but they almost all need help in selling it.
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I've really been noticing the background music in ads since this thread started. Anyone who spends just one day of watching videos on YouTube is going to be inundated with ads, most of which contain music (for which somebody got paid)
That is not what I call jingle music. That's musical cues. short & buttoned. used in commercials as well as lots of TV shows. Jingles, as I understand them, are written specifically for one particular product or purpose.... radio station shows use them alot as do some advertisers. The Bob & Billy morning show..etc... Both are music for commercial purposes but in different directions. Jingles used to be very popular in advertising in decades past. Almost everyone advertising on TV and radio in years past used them. Cues are cheaper so the move has been away from the specifically written custom jingle to a cue that doesn't cost nearly as much.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/15/15 02:29 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Thanks Herb! Based on those definitions, I'd guess that cues are the direction to go for the foreseeable future. Basically because there are a limited number of TV and radio shows, and their advertisers are already entrenched, very few opportunities to break in.
The web, on the other hand, is unbounded. Anybody with a youtube video is a prospective customer.
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You can probably contact a few local radio stations and inquire with them about doing jingles. It's best to have some samples you can provide so they can hear what you can do.
I've heard a few custom jingles on some small local stations for small town businesses. The jingles vary in quality from nicely produced to "what the heck were they thinking".....One the other day had me shaking my head. A girl was singing the jingle and it was pretty bad. Tuning issues, rhyme issues...and way to long in length to be memorable.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Thanks Herb! Based on those definitions, I'd guess that cues are the direction to go for the foreseeable future. Basically because there are a limited number of TV and radio shows, and their advertisers are already entrenched, very few opportunities to break in. Pat, you have brought up some GREAT points! The one thing I would say though is, there aren't as few opportunities as you might think. I think that belief in general is what is creating the opportunities in tv, and radio...of course, as you pointed out, the web. The web, on the other hand, is unbounded. Anybody with a youtube video is a prospective customer. There is A LOT of opportunity there for sure! 300 hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every minute!--that's right from youtube
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Jingles, as I understand them, are written specifically for one particular product or purpose.... radio station shows use them alot as do some advertisers. The Bob & Billy morning show..etc... There are various terms to describe sometimes the same thing. Jingle can be the singing of the call letters for a station. There are actually sites dedicated specifically to this...no product, company or service except the station call letters. Another form of jingle is written specifically for a product, promo, or business. Think of... "Five dollar foot long" or "Nationwide is on your side" Theme songs are what they use for various shows. They are typically custom to the show they are for...but not always. Some shows actually use drop music! Yikes. Examples would be... The music for the "Dallas", "The Facts of life", theme for "Friends" Cues are sort of a strange beast. They can be music in the background of an ad, or anything where a specific event is linked to that music. Think of something like "Love is Strange" in Dirty Dancing. The problem is, it's not necessarily custom written, so may be used in media. Drop Music, is the generic used the background of an ad. These are the music libraries the stations get for this purpose...to have SOMETHING behind the ad. Again, they are not custom, so you may end up with multiple ads having the same music, sometimes within the same market. Custom Music beds-just that. Custom, background music for any purpose. TV, Video, Radio...you name it. The advantage of a custom music bed is that, at the very least, it gives you a unique and identifiable sound.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 05/15/15 05:50 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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You can probably contact a few local radio stations and inquire with them about doing jingles. It's best to have some samples you can provide so they can hear what you can do. You can, but this is typically a "slow boat." There are MUCH faster ways, that are just as effective, or I feel much more effective. I've heard a few custom jingles on some small local stations for small town businesses. The jingles vary in quality from nicely produced to "what the heck were they thinking".....One the other day had me shaking my head. A girl was singing the jingle and it was pretty bad. Tuning issues, rhyme issues...and way to long in length to be memorable. I deal with this all the time. There are the people who do not know much about music who try to do their own jingle. I always get asked "Did you do..." with this grimaced look on their face. NO! lol I think even more dangerous are the musicians/songwriters who know music, so they think they can write a jingle! The cost of one of those jingles is usually substantial AND IT DOESN'T WORK! The writer and the business are too close to it, so they think it is, but there are tests that can be done that PROVES it's not the case...regardless of their opinion of how great their jingle is. You show this to an advertiser and one other thing and it rocks them to their core! Costly, unnecessary mistakes. Just like in anything it's important to know your craft. To charge someone who knows less than you because they think you're an expert, if your not, is unethical to me. Unfortunately, it happens all the time.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 05/15/15 06:08 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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