Hello all. I'm asking this question on behalf of my ensemble-friends.

We're all pretty new at this game and suppose our ideas have passed through many a mind before they passed through ours! Our apologizes if these questions are too broad or this isn't the right forum. Would you please address our question(s) based on whatever you feel your level or area of expertise is. We're happy to be new BiaB players and thankful for a forum like this to help us along. Thank you in advance!

We just bought BiaB for our ensemble. We also bought a program called SmartScore so we can import scans of our collection of sheet-music to BiaB.

One of us plays keyboards, one guitar and the other trumpet. We enjoy the play-along features of BiaB. We use a lot of the Real Book stuff and Hal Leonard play-alongs to learn and play our favorite jazz tunes. BiaB is affording us the ability to quickly create our own renditions or arrangements and this is exciting! We're all 'old guys' now and nobody is looking to start a music career and in fact, it's kinda nice that we're all retired and have the time and desire to do this -- nobody MUST do this, we WANT to. But ...

Playing together is our hobby of course but we've recently been talking about playing local piano lounges. As our 'setup' guy, I envision using the BiaB technology as our accompaniment along with another member (a sound / lighting engineer), controlling the PC, recording, board, lighting, etc.

We want to know if any of you have done this before or if you are currently doing this (using BiaB to perform in public). We want to know if you can give us some specifics as to how an ensemble sets up for something like this -- none of us know how. I thought I'd ask first before walking into the music store with a blank look on our faces (and blank checks too probably). I guess it would help if I tell you what we DO have:

* A brand-new quad-cord PC with 1TB hard drive & BiaB (and all the other stuff).
* A Yamaha non-midi electric keyboard (with headphone out jack).
* An Electric / Acoustic Guitar with Pickup.
* Trumpet - With Yamaha electric mute.



A final question is, what specific kinds of equipment do I need to get us set up to play in a piano lounge environment based on our instruments and using BiaB with a PC? Any and all recommendations. I'd like to hear how you're using it to perform anywhere.

There are many here who use BIAB as live backup. I don't do much of that, but when I do, I prepare the backing tracks on my home PC and save them as MP3 or WAV files for my portable music player. All I need is a PA. I would prefer not to take a computer to a gig. Some here do that with no problem, though.

I am spending a year getting ready to do what you want.

First I researched because I needed a sound system.

I spent hours, hundreds of hours. I had speakers on poles. Make that 4 trips in (I'm just one guy with mobility issues). Then the amp. It's heavy enough, I have a powered Mixer so that's one hand and 30 pounds. And the briefcase with cables in the other. Next the keyboard and stand. Then the mic stand. And binders of music. (I was not using the computer at gigs at this point.)
TC
So we had a big anti-Bose thread here a few years back, might be 10 years. But someone (Mac?) started a thread about a guy playing and walking in with stuff, click click click Bob's yer uncle and it sounded good. I researched more and had to drive to Toronto with my mp3 player and a backing track. Bought a Bose L1 Model 2 with the Tonematch thing.

I found out after 3 months that I could sing, and do it on key. So I got a
TC -Helicon voicelive and figured out how to send chords from band in a box to it and turned it into a harmony section. Then I realized my mic was picking up to much stuff so back to the net, went to a couple of stores and ordered the Audix OM5 mic. Nice mic, you can whack the side and hear almost nothing, and you have to be almost on top of it to make it pick up your voice, so no feedback.

Now I'm still not out and about with a computer, but I can jack my midi from the keyboard to the voicebox and harmonize based on my playing. My Bose has a bass bin so, I trip for the first 3 parts, second the bass bin and the cable briefcase with some music in there, next the keyboard and stand. The bose takes less than 5 minutes to setup.

In the future I'm adding a computer into the mix, but I'm really busy with brass band until 15 April, and then a weeks vacation, and then...back to the sets.

I ave a friend that does exactly what you want. He plays guitar and horns. Not at the same time. Plays 3 nights a week continuously. Forget the sound guy. He also uses the same Bose System as John Conley mentions. But$$$$$$$$$$$$

***With today's laptops, one really does NOT need to invest in aftermarket soundcard device to get great sound from laptop to PA. This is likely due to the large consumer interest in playback of DVDs, the playback side of the built in soundcards now rivals what we can get from aftermarket sound devices (not so for the Recording side of the game, but since we are talking Live Performance with BiaB here, not a problem, or shouldn't be.). ***

If you intend to use the VSC DXi or some other software MIDI synthesizer for any MIDI tracks, then you only need an adaptor to convert the earphone output of the laptop to a PA input. You should also get a Ground Loop Isolator for guaranteed hum-free quiet operation in different locations.

Here is one example of the type of adaptor to connect the Earphone Jack output to dual RCA Stereo connects such as the Tape Inputs found on many of today's PA systems:

(Note: I am using the RadioShack website for the sake of convenience in this post and to let you be able to view pictures of what these things look like. You can find these items at many different places or at Radio Shack. )

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2290564

And here is a relatively inexpensive but proven in the field example of the Ground Loop Isolation transformer:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index....rentPage=search

If your PA system does not have RCA inputs, You can use adaptors like these at the end of the above cable to change the RCAs to 1/4". I think its a good idea to get a pair of these "barrel adaptors" and carry them with you anyway, just in case you encounter that house PA or the shared PA with another act some day:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index....rentPage=family


**When using the Earphone Jack as output to PA, make sure that you visit the Windows Sound Mixer and turn the Master fader plus any outputs that BiaB is using UP ALL THE WAY. Adjust volume at the PA or mixer board proper. This is because the Line Level signal works with less noise and more fidelity when it is *driven*. Earphone Jack level IS Line Level unbalanced audio, BTW.


--Mac

A very small PA system (mixer and two speakers) with a small subwoofer would likely serve you well. EV and QSC have some nice small scale powered speakers that sound great with a small subwoofer, which you will need to get good bass response. Or you could route the bass (from BIAB) through a small bass amp, with everything else going through the small PA speakers. A pair of Bose L1 compact speakers would probably work well too, without a separate subwoofer. I have the Bose "Classic" L1, which would also work OK. I also have a very nice small PA (Tannoy PowerV8's) which I use for everything but bass, which goes through a small Genz Benz bass amp

So far I like the Tannoys with the bass amp best, but this is just my opinion based testing things out in my (fairly large) music room at home. I've played many gigs (keyboard only or singer/keyboard) with both the Bose L1 and my Tannoys. I like the Tannoys a bit better because I can get stereo, which at small venues I think is a plus. At least I like how it sounds better!

I haven't tried out the rig with BIAB at a gig yet, but once I get BIAB gig ready, I'll find out how things sound soon enough.

ikeinblackriver, my thoughts to your two questions:

1. As I understand it, BIAB was designed more as a creating tool for backing music rather than a live performance tool. So there are basically two ways to use the program.

A. Use it live in the performance by an on stage computer.

Advantages: You get the full power of BIAB on stage including variations in the accompaniment, ability to change tempo and pitch, ability to repeat sections or songs,
select on the fly from thousands of songs on your computer, change instruments, mute instruments, and if you don't feel like playing for a while let the soloist do the work.
You can also have music notation or lyrics displayed on screen instead of carrying paper books.

Disadvantages: You must bring a decent computer to every gig (and watch it while on your brake ... ), it's difficult to try to do the things described above and also play, unless you have a "sound engineer" who sits at the computer and knows how to do all those things when needed. Also computers are known to crash or freeze without warning.

B. Use it at home to create backing track and songs to be played as audio files in the performance.

Advantages: You have all the time you need to prepare the best backing tracks you need, and modify them if needed. You can read the help files and watch tutorials.
Which you cannot do on stage. You can create different versions to a song, say long and short. After you create a backing song you can save it as an WAV or MP3 audio file.
You copy all your songs to an IPOD or another MP3 player, and use it in your gig. You can create play lists and folders and when you go on a brake just put the thing in your pocket
MP3 players are extremly reliable and sound very good. Most have built in very effective EQ

Disadvantages: You are working with fixed and static audio files - you have little control of pitch and tempo and zero control of the instruments in the audio file - every time you play that song, the backing track will always sound exactly the same, compared to using BIAB live that generates real changes whithin a song to sound much more realistic.

(there is a third way of using BIAB - exporting the backing tracks to MIDI files and playing the files onstage with a MIDI player that includes a sound module - there are a lot of advantages here but it opens a new subject that may not be relevant to your situation).

Personally, since I'm usualy alone on a gig with a guitar, and need both hands to play and fiddle with my mixer, amps and microphone, I use an old 20 GB IPOD connected to my mixer. I do save and copy my files to the IPOD as WAV files. The sound is very good, but the files are big, but with 20 GB there's no problem. I also use a $30 wireless remote control for the IPOD so I have real buttons instead of the finicky touch wheel.

Your second question: "what specific kinds of equipment do I need to get us set up to play in a piano lounge environment based on our instruments and using BiaB with a PC?"

I do not see you carrying the quad-core PC + 24" widescreen LCD to a gig - so you'll need to get a notebook computer if you want to use the A method. Or use the B method and bring a MP3 player with recorded tracks.

For a sound system, I have used and highly recommend the very portable "Passport" PA by Fender

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For a sound system, I have used and highly recommend the very portable "Passport" PA by Fender

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Thanks so much for your post. It was very informative and your advice is much appreciated.

Regarding the Passport system. Which one do you use (there are several sizes / models to choose from and I'm not sure what I really need).