If has been my experience here that if I get the Upper Banks working on one brand of GM hardware synth, it works on all.

And I've got plenty of 'em here, from most major mfrs.

The Ketron SD2 does an internal RESET to GM everytime the power switch is cycled on, so I tend to doubt that the machine could be left in some state where it wouldn't receive or act on commands sent by BiaB.

However, there could be a problem inside BiaB and whether or not that is a bug (again) or whether one particular user has a corruption in a file somewhere or a User Setting changed could impact the action.

In which case the first thing to do is Reboot the Computer and check operation again.

And if that fails, try RETURN TO FACTORY SETTINGS, BUTTON #2.


--Mac

Your particular Roland synth is designed to work differently from the way the Ketron SD2 is designed to work.

Again, cycling the Power Switch on the SD2 forces a hard RESET and the device is ready for use with BiaB.

Upper Banks are then only a matter of sending the one single command necessary.

Every time you turn the SD2 ON, it is hard reset and ready to go. Simple and user friendly.


--Mac

I know this is kind of fundamental, but after downloading, did you click the PAT button and re-apply the Ketron .pat file ?? I have the SD4 and the upper banks are working fine.

No problem here using the upper banks. Loaded an all midi song and changed the melody patch four or five times while playing and the sound changed accordingly at this end.

Mike B.

Thanks Mike - I haven't had a chance to play around with it yet. Hopefully tonight.
I appreciate you reply.

Well I’m getting frustrated at not being able to get the higher banks working. Here’s what I’ve done so far:

1. Downloaded the Ketron SD2 .PAT files from the PG site, copied the file to the BB file, and opened the file from the “+” higher banks.

2. Have done both Return to Factory settings – including MID drivers and patch maps

3. Some time ago I copied BIAB2010 to an external drive as a back up. I compared many preferences, and all were the same on both machines.

4. Tried various start up options (computer then keyboard, then Ketron – all combinations)

5. Used the “Send Patch” button from the “+” area

6. Got crabby and had two beers.

I’ve set up a song with patch changes every four bars. The regular patches change fine, and although the blue bar at the very top of the screen says “Bar Setting Patch Changes” there is no change when the higher bank patches are selected.

As I mention at the start of this thread, I loaded BB2011 straight on top of 2010.5 - there were no changes to my keyboard, cabling – anything. (XP by the way)

If everyone who has been kind enough to respond and tell me that they’re working okay, I feel that it’s probably a setting that somehow has been changed.

I think I’ll go back to step #6 again.

Now bear in mind I'm old ....

I got messing with this last week and decided the wife should play the flute through the vocal harmony box as I can't sing anymore.

I forgot I'd rendered a song.

The vocal harmony box was not responding. It took me 30 minutes to discover that I had checked the use Dxi synth box to render something and left it. If you check that box the Ketron won't work. This I found out.

My vocal box is setup on Midi ch5. I also have the soloist track on ch 5 so I can go in there and put a patch change like 25 (Nylon string guit) but that sets the box to preset 2.5 so I can change on the fly. I hear something on the soloist track I don't like and silence it. For hours it never dawned on me that my box wasn't responding due to the muted track, and I finally figured it out. I now set the volume to 1 and erase the track, I don't use solos anyway.

Hello Keith,

Open the MIDI Monitor, filter it to only show program changes and control change 0 (Bank change MSB) and 32 (Bank change LSB), then play your song. This way you can determine if Band-in-a-Box is sending the correct messages when you expect it to. Is it? If not, what's happening?

Thank you Andrew - I'll try that tonight when I get home

The aforementioned is much easier if you take a file with a simple melody and use all realtracks. Then the only midi is for the melody. The ketron should flash, and when testing I turn off the other feed to my mixer and just listen to the melody. It should be obvious, for then the light only flashes when the notes go out. Then the patch changes should show up in the midi monitor along with the notes.

Good clue John - I'll try that. When testing last night the Ketron blue light was flashing as it should.

If notes are going from every track it can be overwhelming to watch and figure out. The simpler the better.

I get weird stuff once in a while. My vocal harmonizer seized up today, I happened to see it happen as I turned the know.

Not that I really use it for vocals at the moment. Maybe the voice and the balance come back at the same time eh? But I'm messing with it and my horns with some success. I think. I need to record it and get someone with ears to tell me.

The vocalist goes on Midi 5 so I can isolate just that and watch the data as the chords go out to it.

I always find when something is wrong it's usually my fault, just as the wife told me was the case. I'm wrong.

In your example I don't see nothing that is switching they are all zero.
Brian

The SD2 Upper Banks will respond to MSB values of 2, 4, or 10.

All of yours are zeros. Zero MSB = standard GM Bank on the Ketron.


Don't know what the problem could be but suspect either Cockpit Error of some sort or possibly you are using the same single songfile that may be corrupted. Have you tried hitting New and trying to assign Upper Banks on a New experimental songfile?

**What do the MSB Spinners read in this songfile? If they are all zeros, then nothing got assigned. If, however, the Spinners reflect the Upper Banks commands you wanted, with a 2, 4, or 10 there, then I'd suspect a bug.**


--Mac

As others have noticed they're all 0, which shouldn't be the case. But is that the entire list?

In the MIDI Monitor, press the Clear button, then play your song. When it's passed some of your bank changes, you can stop the song. Press the Save Text button. Press Copy, then paste (CTRL+V) into your forum post.

Hi,
just tried sending out patch & bank changes using the sd2 patch map to my korg pa800.

Even though the sd2 patch map won't change the banks on my korg ( because it uses LSB & MSB controller for Bank Changes, unlike Ketron which only uses MSB ) I was still able to monitor what BIAB was sending. On my system BIAB is definately sending the various MSB ( bank changes).

Hi Rikki,
Thank you for checking that for me. I'm convinced that a setting has somehow been changed, but I'm blowed if I can find where. I doubt it's a bug becauses everyone else's is working okay.

Go through the prefs and make sure the appropriate boxes are checked to allow patch and bank changes. Also check the overrides menu.

Keith--

When you load a songfile that has Upper Bank patches in it, you should be able to see the MSB spinner block underneath the Tracknames indicate that Upper Bank selection (like, 1, 2, 4, 10) when the Track is selected by its Radio Button at the top. No need to open any other window.

If you don't see an Upper Bank number in the MSB window and all you see is a zero, then the Save didn't work.

As for the Controller 32 or zero label, that is just another name for Most Significant Bit (MSB) or Lest Significant Bit (LSB) in MIDI-talk. Means the same thing, it is just that different manufacturers of MIDI gear may call it different names - and there are even other more cryptic ways they have of putting this in their owner's manuals, unfortunately. In your case, the MSB is the only thing you have to deal with in the SD2, and those Upper Bank numbers I've given you correspond to the single number at the top of each page of available patches in the back of your SD2 owner's manual.

So try changing the MSB value in the spinner on the main page MANUALLY to one of those numbers and see if you hear the instrument patch change. If so, try doing a Save with Patches and Harmony and check the boxes to the right and check Fill with Patches from there and see if your patch changes stick.


--Mac

A little explanation of this MSB & LSB thing.
In MIDI a parameter can only have 128 values-typically 0-127. This also applies to program changes.With this restriction you'd only be able to have 128 Patches.In comes the MSB. It to can have 128 values so now you can have 128 MSB Values x 128 patches for each MSB value = 16,384 Patches. Now add in 128 LSB Values for each MSB value and it's 128LSB X 128MSB X 128PATCHES = 2097152 Total Patches Available.

Makes no sense.

My workflow would be, given the above

1. Start song verify odd noises are there.
2. Mute 1st Track. Repeat. Continue until you mute each track except the drum track.
3. Put the midi drum track on the screen in editable notation and play and watch for what is happening.

Because the midi drum track is supposed to regenerate based on the midi pattern every time play is pressed the only explanation is that something is wrong with the style file.

Other than that some spurious data is on Ch10 some other place.

Also verify that there is NO .wav file of the same name in the folder.

Also verify that there are no sounds happening if the ketron is shut off.

Sounds like the MSB data did not get saved to the songfiles for some reason.

Have you tried the "Save with Patches and Harmony" window instead (as outlined above in one of my posts)?


--Mac

Sorry Mac, Yes, I forgot to mention that I have tried that with no luck.

I'm now considering a complete reinstall, but before I do, just as a test I loaded BIAB onto another computer, set some alternate bank 0 and bank 1 patches, and ran the MIDI monitor.

Is this the response that I should be getting?

Evt # Time (mS) Source Raw Status Chan Data 1 Data 2
1 1808 1 B1 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
2 1808 1 B1 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
3 1809 1 B2 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
4 1809 1 B2 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
5 1809 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
6 1809 1 B5 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
7 1810 1 B6 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 7 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
8 1810 1 B6 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 7 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
9 1810 1 B3 00 01 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 1
10 1811 1 B3 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
11 1811 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
12 1812 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
13 1812 1 B4 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 5 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
14 1812 1 B4 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 5 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
15 1813 1 B1 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
16 1813 1 B1 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
17 1813 1 B2 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
18 1813 1 B2 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
19 1814 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
20 1814 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
21 1815 1 B3 00 01 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 1
22 1815 1 B3 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
23 1815 1 B4 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 5 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
24 1815 1 B4 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 5 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
25 1816 1 B1 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
26 1816 1 B1 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
27 1816 1 B2 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
28 1816 1 B2 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
29 1817 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
30 1817 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
31 1817 1 B3 00 01 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 1
32 1818 1 B3 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
33 8691 1 B3 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
34 8691 1 B3 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
35 8691 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
36 8691 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0

I'm hoping that the CC value alternating between 0 and 1 means the banks are switching.
I don't have a keyboard with me to test it.

Hi Keith,
that MSB 1, is Bank change 1. Appears that it may finally be working for you

Thanks Rikki, I think a new install is definitely the way for me to go. My BIAB file is getting a bit crowded anyway - so it's a good chance to have a spring clean.

Looks like they issued a fix for upper bank issues today. Check latest update. 314

Yes, I noticed it this morning thanks Bob. I'm looking forward to trying it out when I get home.

... and I'm pleased to report that after trying a few songs the upper bank switches are performing correctly.
Thanks Team PG