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Posted By: eddie1261 Okay, I officially quit - 08/01/11 10:51 PM
After chatting in another forum, I went to try Real Band. Okay first of all, the interface is completely different and I have no idea what I am doing. All I knew was "Play", so I hit.

Now, when playing the song in BIAB, there was an acceptable guitar solo at bar 51. Playing the same file in RB, there was n solo at all. And now the part that made me just power everything off and give up on this program.

I played with that song for 20 minutes. Okay, that is important. 20 minutes. In those 20 minutes I stopped and started that song a good 8-10 times, using the location slider to go to bar 49 and start from there to see where the hell my solo went. Again, remember twenty minutes.

On the next restart, I got an error message and a crash that my ASIO drivers were not correctly installed.

Well, apparently for the previous 20 minutes they WERE correctly installed because I was playing the song over and over and over and over.

Now, this is why I no longer care.

I know WHAT those ASIO drivers are, I just don't understand either the relevance of what driver is pushing my audio out and why BIAB/RB would suddenly decide that they were incorrectly installed AFTER USING THEM FOR TWENTY MINUTES!!!!!

I quit. I am just going to sketch out my rough tracks like I have been doing, send the stuff off to the players and be done with it.

As long as I have been around computers, and at an enterprise level, there is NO WAY a piece of software should dictate that you have to use "Jim's Driver" or it will not work. That is what the whole "net neutrality" fracas was about. And the fact that this happened 20 minutes in.

If my drivers were "incorrectly installed" (and NOTHING on my computer is "incorrectly installed") does logic not say that they would have failed the first time I hit play, not the 10th? My drivers did not go bad after 19:59 and fail at the 20th minute. A piece of software can not "decide" when it will fail.

At any rate, never mind. BIAB for rough skeleton demos and done. It's not like I would release anything created by a computer anyway. I just thought I could make better demos for my guys with RB but it is another 3 months of learning curve that I don't have, and it is apparently buggy.
Posted By: Rob Helms Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/01/11 11:57 PM
works like a champ here. I can open Biab files directly and play them.

I can hightlight a section and right click and add a solo at any and every pointy i want. i can add one in three, four, whatever tracks i want, and demo them all and pick the one i want.

RB does run on ASIO, but they are not necessary. The MME drivers are actually WDM drivers, and work very nicely for me on RB. I can't tell the difference over ASIO really.

20 minutes? Really?

Seriously Eddie you are missing the big picture here. I will be home in about an hour If you want I could shadow your screen and setup RB. It will really open the door for you.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 12:02 AM
Thing is Rob, you highlighted a section where? I didn't have a scrolling chart like in BIAB. I had a mixer on my screen and a bunch of cryptic icons that did nothing and then I got that error, muttered an obscenity loud enough to scare my dog, and quit trying.
Posted By: johnnyo34 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 01:08 AM
Hey Eddie would you mind telling me what Style you used for "Do It All Again",
thanks
Posted By: jazzmammal Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 05:11 AM
Great minds and all that Eddie. I'm better with RB than you are and your problem is probably something fairly simple but still, I just finished posting my own rant in my RB bug report thread. It's true that sometimes RB does some strange things that don't make sense and it will piss you off but to be fair it mostly works well. You should have heard that solo. One thing to remember is RB is a linear sequencer, Biab allows you to do chorus repeats and 1st/2nd endings. RB ignores those so bar whatever in Biab may not be the same bar number in RB. I can't help you with that ASIO error I never get that, ASIO works fine for me. I know you're not in the mood for it now but let Rob link up with you. That's a very generous offer and you could learn a lot.

You're an active player like me and neither one of us has the time to be wasting a whole afternoon going on a bug hunt when we're trying to get some work done. I feel your pain and like you I've had it with RB for one night so I'm not going to try to help you right now, maybe later.

Bob
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 05:57 AM
Rob remoted in and was a HUGE help. What he showed me is all working fine. What we did not do is record real time audio. I checked everything and the interface is set up as BIAB/RB says it should be, yet the VU meters show no input when I have a key on the keyboard taped down playing a note and I can hear it through the mix. Either I have something physical set wrong (which I doubt because I can hear the keyboard) or some setup, though the track is set to audio, it is on the right side of my interface (1-2 rather than 3-4) and Windows is correctly set up to use this as the recording device.

As I said earlier, this kind of thing makes me want to see everything I own and never play music again.

I once said in a ranting post, we need "simple mode".

Click here to do this.
Click here to do that.

I am not at 90 minutes trying to make the VU meters see my input, and my interface is showing me the input from the keyboard just fine.

90 minutes.

The help files are worthless. They say what to check but nothing about when everything checks to be right and it still doesn't work. When you do what the help says and it still doesn't work, it isn't my fault anymore. Watching the little green signal light on my M-Audio Fast Track Pro flashing away and getting madder with every flash.

Oh well, back to the help and GUESS what search string I should use for this. I do know "record" is no good, "audio" is no good, "RealBand" is no good..... let me go try "salami".
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 11:15 AM
Well I have over 200 songs done in RB and had been playing out with it 3 nights a week.Not your answer but it's not totally the progs fault either.
Posted By: musiclover Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 11:44 AM
Hello Eddie,

Like you I have been very frustrated with realband at times. Overall I find it a buggy program given to freeaing up and crashing. As a well known poster once described it on these forums as rather like "My first DAW"

I usually use cubase to mix and what I do find realband invaluable for is creating multiple tracks of realtracks which I will then import into cubase (I don't bother with that drag and drop thing)

If you want the vocal harmonizer then you will need to use realband for that as well.

I think if you use biab to pick your style demo a few of the realtracks that you want, then create multiple tracks of these realtracks in realband save the project to .wav, then import it itno your regular DAW software and do everything there, you will find your workflow well speeded up.

The mixer in cubase is a joy to work with compared to realband I find though others will swear that realband is a the only DAW software that they require.

Overall I don't know realband that well but I know enough to reach the conclussion that there is no way that I will start and finish a song in it.

Like your songs in the user showcase by the way.

musiclover
Posted By: Mac Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 11:56 AM
Fro the record, I have yet to find a multitrack audio/MIDI software platform that does not A) require you to learn how things are done in that particular program (and ALL of 'em do the same things differently) and B) does not occasionally present a problem to me that stops the creative juices and requires me to change hats. Which can be frustrating to do, as you generally always lose the creative thang you were after at the time.

I've also never encountered any of these programs where, provided it is my first experience with the particular program, anything serious could be accomplished on that first run. I used to always tell people that you've got to be willing to spend the time and "shake it down" before starting any attempt to work on your masterpiece. Try putting together a dumb cover song or something, use that to work out any bugs and also to gain whatever experience is needed to make it work *before* you risk your creative work to the thing.

Or be frustrated.


--Mac
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 12:02 PM
OK, the VU's aren't showing the signal but you can hear it; did you actually try to record?

The VU's only show the default in/outs. Those are the ones at the top of the driver list. If you have the second one down highlited the VU's won't work. That's what the 'Move selected device to top' button does. It makes the chosen device move to the top of the list so it is the default and the VUs work. You can record without the VU's, but if you want them you need to make your device the default device in RB.

As for your solo, RB does not support the 'soloist' track in BiaB to my knowledge. It works more like a DAW than an accompaniment program. You would have to highlite the section you want the solo in and generate it by right-clicking the track. Or save the solo from BiaB to its own wav file and use 'Audio - import wave file' in RB.
Posted By: Rob Helms Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 02:26 PM
Rharv we did all that and was partially succesfull

We were able to drag the solo over , but it would not generate that particular solo Brent 1513, and we tried more than one track. We could generate other real tracks

I have had this before, where one track would not generate.

Also i did the setup and listed M-Audio 1/2 as the in and out, and clicked move to top of list.

Does the VUs work if not recording?
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 02:55 PM
The output VU meters are fine. When I try to record a little Hammond sound over that song we worked with, the input VUs do not move, it doe snot record, but I can hear the synth as I play it. That tells me it is hitting the interface but not going through it to the software. When I stop the record, it asks if I want to keep the take. I say yes. I play back, nothing. The track does not show any wave activity.

Physical connections are as such. Obviously from the interface to the computer is fine or I would hear nothing. In the Windows control panel (I run 7) the M-Audio IS selected as the default recording device, 16 bit, 44,100 sample rate, which is what the help files say it should be. I plug the synth into input 1 on my M-Audio. The synth activity light flickers. I select the track, set it to AUDIO TRACK (tried both mono and stereo). I hit RECORD (I also tried using the RECORD AUDIO) and play the track. I play over the recorded tracks, and it does not record.

Everything has been tested with every variable offered. I just don't know where else to look because this is the first time I ever used RB. And as I said in the earlier post, 90 minutes later, the help files were no help, largely because I don't know what other keywords to try. RECORD gave me nothing. RECORD AUDIO gave me nothing. I mean they gave me topics but they did not address this issue.

And the issue is NOT my M-Audio box. When I use Sonar I set things up the same way and can record real time with no problems.

People have offered replies to this and many other questions saying things like "Oh just send your track out to ______________ and then you can do this and that." Folks, the idea of buying BIAB/RB was so I did NOT have to be sending files back and forth and import this and export that and then tweak and and and and....... This was supposed to be the "one stop shopping" package. I KNOW how to use the other stuff. I don't WANT to do that any more. Cubase this, Pro Tools that, Sonar the other.... No. I want to do everything in ONE software. BIAB offered the advantage of creating background tracks, but if it doesn't work "all the way" it does me very little good.
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 03:23 PM
Something is not set up right. Some small thing is causing all this frustration. Could even be something in the M-Audio mixer applet. Monitor Mixer or such..
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 03:33 PM
"Does the VUs work if not recording?" Yes, when using selected device at top of list.
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 03:37 PM
"but I can hear the synth as I play it. That tells me it is hitting the interface but not going through it to the software. "

That is the key. Either the M-Audio is routing it elsewhere or the wrong drivers are selected.
Posted By: jazzmammal Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 03:50 PM
Rharv just mentioned the same thing I'm asking you now. Does the M-Audio interface have it's own mixer app? You haven't said anything about how that's set up. It took me some time to figure out my EMU's Patchmix software too. The M-Audio mixer has to be set up properly or it's a showstopper.

I totally agree about the Help files btw. They do squat for me as well when trying to track down a problem. It's been mentioned a few times here that there should be a sort of "beta test" for the help files and owners manual. I think they could use a good rewrite.

Bob
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 04:00 PM
Is Full Duplex checked in Audio Preferences? It's a long shot, but like I said it'll be some small stupid little thing being overlooked.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 04:02 PM
I will dispute that ONLY because when I loaded up Sonar to test (and touched nothing physical, just shut down RB and booted Sonar) I recorded just fine, so the M-Audio is set up correctly. The interface doesn't know what software is recording what it sends through it, correct? Sonar, Cubase, Pro Tools, BIAB.....

The M-Audio is configured through Windows control panel sound hardware settings. I can pick 1-2 or 3-4, and I tried every combination. When I was testing with Sonar I changed it from 1-2 to 3-4, made the appropriate cabling changes, and recorded a second time into Sonar. So once again, I eliminated physical. That leaves logical.

Once again, computer nerd boy that I am, I am thorough when I troubleshoot, but I can only troubleshoot what I know to look for. The next step takes me into help files, and the FAQ and help files offered nothing in the area of "How to troubleshoot when your input does not register on the VU meters and does not record." A lot of "How to connect...." Nothing on "When you can not record...."

I can not have BIAB turn into a second full time job. It is supposed to be "user friendly plug it up and go" and it is far from that. I understand learning curves as well as anybody, but this is ridiculous. 90 minutes in the helps and no answer anywhere.

And if one more person tells me about drivers....

One last time... a driver is simply a piece of software that tells your operating system what hardware to use. If it works for one program, or two, or twelve, it HAS to work on the 13th. Drivers are not intuitive to know what program is running. It is on or off, black or white, yes or no, works or doesn't work. No shades of gray. If some piece of software requires a different audio driver (which, by the way is an anomaly - hardware requires drivers, not software) then that software needs to step in line with industry standard and not require a proprietary driver (Are you listening HP with your Laser Printer 5 drivers that don't like Windows 7?). Changing from ASIO to MME (legacy) does make a difference as far as how data is passed, and the ASIO does not work on my computer, probably because I have not looked for updates. (And that switch in BIAB just aligns BIAB to what the computer is running.) Everything works just tip top with BIAB and RB until I get to trying to record external sources. That tells me I do not have a driver issue, or nothing would work. There is also the WDM (Windows Driver Model) option, but once again, propeller head Eddie says that "logic dictates" that you should not have to be changing drivers in mid session to get one function of a program to work.

Drivers has become everybody's cliche answer to every computer problem. And this is not a computer problem. This is a BIAB/RB problem.
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 04:09 PM
One way to see if it is the routing -
Open a new seq file
highlite every available device in the drivers input window
click OK and hit record.

Every device will record to its own track so you can see if any of the selections are getting a signal. If one does, count how many tracks down it is and compare it to the list. Yes they will record and not show in the VU.

Maybe RB mislabels the inputs (?)
This test would find out.

How does the M-Audio connect to the computer? USB, PCI, Firewire?
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 04:16 PM
Did you check Full Duplex box in RB audio preferences? Long shot ...
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 04:19 PM
Quote:

One way to see if it is the routing -
Open a new seq file
highlite every available device in the drivers input window
click OK and hit record.

Every device will record to its own track so you can see if any of the selections are getting a signal. If one does, count how many tracks down it is and compare it to the list. Yes they will record and not show in the VU.

Maybe RB mislabels the inputs (?)
This test would find out.

How does the M-Audio connect to the computer? USB, PCI, Firewire?




I don't know what that means "every available device". What "device" are you talking about? Recording input? You can only use one or the other (input 1-2 or input 3-4), and I tried both. And I knew 3-4 was wrong because it is turned off in the control panel. M-Audio 1-2 is my default recording "device" if that is the context you are using that term.

And again, I keep coming back to this, it works with Sonar so there is not a hardware issue. The M-Audio is routing, as controlled by Windows sound hardware in control panel, not BIAB, and if I can record in Sonar, nothing in setup is preventing me from recording in BIAB.

Pulled my hair out for 2 hours last night over this, and this is all wasted time. So back to "create with BIAB, record to Tascam, play overdub tracks into Tascam"... I know that works for me. Real Band does not.
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 04:32 PM
To clarify - There have been times when a device gets mislabeled or put out of order in RB. It's rare.

To see if something is happening with RB you should first go to audio preferences and change the box for mono track recording option that lists Left, Right, or L&R .. set to select L&R. Just to be sure all possibilities are covered.

Now go to the Drivers section (drivers button) and highlite EVERY available input at the same time by just clicking them.

Then go to RB and record to a stereo track while inputing signal (just for a couple seconds).
The driver listed first will record onto the first track. The next driver down will automatically record to the second track, third down to third, etc. It will do this for all enabled drivers (and yes I called them devices earlier).

Most users do not multitrack so would not have known about this feature.
This will tell if something weird is going on inside RB like inputs are labeled wrong .. or the sound is getting routed to MS Sound mapper or something. It's a test worth trying. It's quick, easy and I should have thought of this much sooner.
This trick will tell you if RB is getting audio at all anywhere.
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 04:48 PM
As for your rendering problem; try clicking the rebuild button in the realtracks dialogue. See if that realtrack start functioning.
Posted By: DrDan Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 05:52 PM
Quote:

The output VU meters are fine. When I try to record a little Hammond sound over that song we worked with, the input VUs do not move, it doe snot record, but I can hear the synth as I play it. That tells me it is hitting the interface but not going through it to the software. When I stop the record, it asks if I want to keep the take. I say yes. I play back, nothing. The track does not show any wave activity.






You say you are using a "Synth". Then you say "no wave activity".

Simple question - just ignor if not applicable but, are you recording midi or audio?
Posted By: jford Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 06:08 PM
If you are recording MIDI data from your keyboard, you won't see any activity on the VU meters. The VU meters only register audio. If you are hitting keys on the synth and they are connected to the synth port on your M-Audio, then you need to make the record track a MIDI track. Once recorded, it should play through whatever your output synth is.

Otherwise, if you are using line-out audio from your synth plugged into an audio input on your M-Audio, then you should be receiving audio and you should see the VU meters. I've got the M-Audio FastTrack Pro and that's how it works for me in RealBand.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 06:31 PM
Quote:

Otherwise, if you are using line-out audio from your synth plugged into an audio input on your M-Audio, then you should be receiving audio and you should see the VU meters. I've got the M-Audio FastTrack Pro and that's how it works for me in RealBand.




1/4" plug I took right out of my Mackie mixer and plugged into the input on the front of the M-Audio. No disrespect or snippy attitude intended, but I know the difference between MIDI data and audio signal.

The track is set as an audio track, and I have used every input option offered by RB at least 3 times. (All of them show as M-Audio 1-2, by the way, is BIAB/RB does not give me any choice outside of the correct one. I pushed that input gain so high I thought my headphones were going to burst just to see if it was WEAK signal or NO signal. The answer was NO signal. Yet, I closed BIAB, booted Sonar, and recorded 8 bars of the B that the keyboard was sending. And that was touching nothing but the computer keyboard. Big X to close BIAB, double click to launch Sonar, new file, audio track, default input, beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep... recorded 16 seconds of it. Closed Sonar, loaded BIAB, created new song, track 1, set to audio, input M-Audio 1-2 stereo, nothing. Then input M-Audio 1-2 mono, nothing. Then it was 2am and I went to bed angry. This was after 90 minutes of digging through FAQ which only showed me how to connect stuff, not how to troubleshoot it when it failed.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 06:35 PM
Quote:

You say you are using a "Synth". Then you say "no wave activity".

Simple question - just ignor if not applicable but, are you recording midi or audio?




Audio. I should have seen sine wave on the track and activity on the input VU meter. I was recording HOT too just to see if it was a level issue, so hot that I could not wear my headphones lest I risk hearing damage.

As I said in the next post, this was after 90 minutes of fishing in the FAQ, and it was 2am so I just quit and went to bed angry that software that purports itself to be plug and play is not so. A simple function like recording audio should not require 90 minutes of digging through help files. Plug it in, hit record, and go. There is no troubleshooting help, just "plug A into B" type stuff. Well, when "A into B" doesn't work, we need more.
Posted By: SmoothJohn Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 06:35 PM
I have had nothing but trouble with the ASIO driver on my M-Audio Fast Track Pro. I don't know if it's the driver or if PG Music's problem, but the ASIO leads to crashes, sometimes giving me the message that my ASIO driver is for MAC.

The simple solution is to switch to MME. Absolutely crash-free. But it still is a nuisance if you wish to run ASIO.

John
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 06:38 PM
Quote:

I have had nothing but trouble with the ASIO driver on my M-Audio Fast Track Pro. I don't know if it's the driver or if PG Music's problem, but the ASIO leads to crashes, sometimes giving me the message that my ASIO driver is for MAC.

The simple solution is to switch to MME. Absolutely crash-free. But it still is a nuisance if you wish to run ASIO.

John




Same here, John. Using MME.

And NEVER say "driver" here. You will get 27 people telling you that you need to upgrade the driver, even though it worked yesterday.... meanwhile sound drivers are generic to a point where if they were ice cream, they would be vanilla.
Posted By: jazzmammal Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 06:51 PM
Quote:

After chatting in another forum, I went to try Real Band.




Quote:

On the next restart, I got an error message and a crash that my ASIO drivers were not correctly installed.




Eddie, this is from your original post. You were talking about recording into Real Band and all of our responses were directed to RB, now you're saying you're trying to record into Biab??

IF you had both RB and Biab open at the same time using ASIO, that will crash one of them and cause all sorts of problems because ASIO is usually only available to one open program at a time. Is that what you did?

And please be very specific which program are you talking about.

Bob
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 07:09 PM
Quote:

Eddie, this is from your original post. You were talking about recording into Real Band and all of our responses were directed to RB, now you're saying you're trying to record into Biab??

IF you had both RB and Biab open at the same time using ASIO, that will crash one of them and cause all sorts of problems because ASIO is usually only available to one open program at a time. Is that what you did?





I only had RealBand open. I then opened a song I had created in BIAB. After having to totally recreate the solo section because RB did not import/load/recognize/translate from the BIAB song, at least those 8 bars worked.

I then went to an empty track, set it as an audio track (I know the difference between audio and MIDI), plugged my Ensoniq ESQ-1 into the #1 input of my M-Audio Fast Track Pro MIDI interface, which is connected via USB, using the same cable with 1/4" plugs that normally plugs it into my Mackie mixer, and taped a key down (specifically a B above middle C) so the keyboard was outputting. I hit record on RB. The song played. However, the VU meters did not show any input.

When that failed I closed all PG products. With that ESQ-1 still playing B above middle C. I loaded Sonar. Created a new file, assigned an audio track, hit record, and Sonar recorded that audio stream, showed me sine waves in the track... all of it. Closed down Sonar. Still not touching hardware AT ALL, I loaded RB again. This time instead of overdub, I created a new song. Set track 1 as audio, input from the only input source I have the option to use, which is M-Audio 1-2 in RB language, and it still will not record live audio.

I tend to consider BIAB and RB as the same product since they both come from the same place. Like BIAB, and then RB being BIAB on steroids.

Please no more driver talk. There is not a problem with any drivers. They work. The driver will not pick and choose which programs it will and won't work with. The driver is a hardware function. If it works in Sonar and Finale is HAS to work with BIAB and RB. If it failed in Sonar then I would accept driver talk. But once again, my interface will not say "I am going to work with Sonar but not you, BIAB or RB.. nyah nyah nyah." That part of the game is black and white, yes or no, on or off. No shades of gray.

I am SO stumped by this.
Posted By: PeterGannon Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 07:50 PM
It sounds like you've been switching driver types (ASIO to MME) as well as switching programs within the same session. That should work fine, but once a problem occurs, it will likely recur within the same Windows session.

If things are not working, you should reboot Windows, and start up with MME and stick with it.
Posted By: jazzmammal Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 08:01 PM
Quote:

...I closed BIAB, booted Sonar,...




So, what does this mean? Just a typo or were you trying to record in Biab? Different protocol for Biab.

Also regardless of what you think, never ever put Biab and RB together and think they're either the same program or first cousins even. They are not. Think of RB like it's Reaper or something else. Just because they grafted some Biab functions into Power Tracks does not make it Biab. When Mercedes bought Chrysler a few years ago did that suddenly make all Chryslers Benz's? Of course not.

Also, even though I understand your feelings perfectly you should post with a bit more humility. Just sayin. When you read these forums and nobody is having this kind of problem, just you, what does that tell you? I've been recording both audio and midi for years and years first with Power Tracks and now RB. There's no problem with the program buddy. Simple as that. You may know computers but you don't know DAW's and/or your M-Audio interface. You may have figured out Sonar but like Mac said every DAW is completely different with their configurations and they all use their own language for it too. Just the way it is.

Bob
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 08:13 PM
<raises hand>
Did you ever try recording with all available input drivers enabled? I know you have said M-Audio 1/2 is your only choice, but since you are running windows I would think that the MS Soundmapper would still show up (unless you specifically uninstalled it which would be difficult) especially when using MME.

So have you tried recording every available port at once just as a test yet? Whether you call them drivers or devices it is an important setup step to find the correct one. Windows has been known to mix/match devices via drivers before. Hence my post about incorrect labeling of drivers(devices) earlier. RB uses the driver to select which input device it is recording.

I'll look back (again) to see if I missed results for this.
/sorry for the 'driver' talk, but in RB drivers point to devices so it is the most relevant solution. Your device is not recording after all.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 08:20 PM
Quote:

So, what does this mean? Just a typo or were trying to record in Biab?

Also regardless of what you think, never ever put Biab and RB together and think they're either the same program or first cousins even. They are not. Think of RB like it's Reaper or something. Just because they grafted some Biab functions into Power Tracks does not make it Biab.

Bob




Part 1, yes typo. I was working totally in Real Band.

Part 2. I was not changing drivers. I was looking at options. I am in MME and have always been.

Part 3. That would mean more if I knew what Reaper is, other than the guy with the scythe who started following me around in June....

I would love to use Real Band exclusively like so many of the more experienced people do. But the advantage of doing so is that I can add live tracks and eliminate the dumping to the Tascam 8 track direct to disc recorder and layering that way. If that doesn't work, then Real Band holds no advantage for me over BIAB and I will just use BIAB. Real Band plays the same celebrity snippets and clips them into an arrangement like BIAB, right? The advantage is that it's a multitrack sequencer that replaces (in my case) Sonar. But if I can't record live input....
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 08:25 PM
The point is you CAN record live input. Hundreds (probably thousands) of us do it every day.
Look up above and try what I suggested and let me know if anything happens. If not then there is something weird going on. If you record every available input at once and get nothing, RB doesn't recognize your interface (most likely) and that would be really rare for RB, since it is an M-Audio device.
Posted By: jazzmammal Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 08:44 PM
Quote:

Part 3. That would mean more if I knew what Reaper is, other than the guy with the scythe who started following me around in June....




Ok, fair enough. Reaper is another highly regarded DAW. I know you're an old pro musician, you're also an old pro computer tech but you're a total noob when it comes to DAW's. Just post accordingly, that's all.
Rharv is our resident expert in RB. Follow his instructions exactly and don't harass the teacher. You're in school now.

Bob
Posted By: jford Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 08:58 PM
Quote:

No disrespect or snippy attitude intended, but I know the difference between MIDI data and audio signal.




Hi, Eddie -

No disrespect received; however, I don't know what you know and can only visualize your setup, so I'm just trying to help.

And don't dismiss drivers necessarily. I had a problem once where everything worked great in BIAB but not in (at the time PowerTracks, since this was pre-RealBand). It just didn't make sense to me...I was doing essentially the same thing in both, but it didn't work. And no one else on the forum could duplicate the problem. Turned out, after contacting the device manufacturer, that it was in fact the driver and with the help of both PGMusic and myself pressing for a fix, the manufacturer finally provided the fix. Everyone else on the forum was not having the problem and couldn't understand why I did. Once I updated the new driver, everything worked properly.

Even with my M-Audio Fast Track Pro, I had to make sure I used the driver from the web site, not the one that came on the CD in order for it to work properly with Windows 7 64-bit. Once I did that, everything fell into place.

There are many of us on the forum that use an M-Audio interface successfully, so there must be a problem somewhere. So it's either a matter of figuring out where the problem is, or just writing it off and not using the product. That's your decision; however, RealBand does a lot of neat things that you just can't do with BIAB (or even another Digital Audio Workstation - DAW).

And Reaper is just the name of another company's DAW offering, just like Sonar, Cubase, Tracktion, and others are. I guess it's one you're not familiar with, but there was a time I didn't know what Sonar was (I thought it was what submarines used to find target ships), but I did know what Cakewalk was. We just live and learn everyday.

I can say this - lots of folks are trying to help you here, but that help will start dropping off quickly if you keep cussing out the folks giving that help.

No one's questioning your abilities, but we're just trying to get to the bottom of the problem. I've helped longtimers who can run rings around me and they have helped me. That's why we hang out here. RHarv and I spent a lot of time working with one guy to ultimately find out he had a bad motherboard. Here's a secret - (Shhhhh!!) IT happens!!!

But it's up to you. We can either help you figure out why it's not working on your computer or you decide not to use RealBand.
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 09:07 PM
I was trying to be nice ..

Comparing Sonar to Realband is like comparing WinMovieMaker to Adobe Premier. They are different. RB needs more attention to set up, but once done it is well worth the effort.

If you record ALL available drivers (and hence devices) you will know if RB is seeing anything at all.

At least *try* recording with all devices enabled as described earlier in the thread. If you get an error it may point to the source of the problem. If it records on a track that seems wrong, it may be an RB or Windows labeling issue.. Point is that this test eliminates a lot of possibilities.
Again-
open RB fresh
make sure the checkbox for L,R or L&R is set to 'L&R' in the "Options-Preferences-Audio tab" area
Click the Drivers button and select every available driver (device) by highliting them all
go back to RB Tracks window and select a blank stereo audio track

and then try to record.
If RB sees nothing on any of the resulting tracks, there is a different issue. This will answer a lot of questions really quickly. You *should* see multiple tracks (one for each for each driver selected) after 'keep take' dialogue.

If you go to "Options-Preferences-Audio tab-drivers" and see more than one instance listed for M-Audio 1/2 then it's possible multiple drivers are installed and causing problems. If you see only that input and nothing else listed I'd say the drivers are wrong for your device (even if they work in Sonar).

Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 09:15 PM
Quote:

The point is you CAN record live input. Hundreds (probably thousands) of us do it every day.
Look up above and try what I suggested and let me know if anything happens. If not then there is something weird going on. If you record every available input at once and get nothing, RB doesn't recognize your interface (most likely) and that would be really rare for RB, since it is an M-Audio device.




Okay you are losing me with "try all inputs". I assume what you are calling an input is what RB is calling a port. When I assign the track, every input is the same input.

Selection screen here

That is what I am plugged in to. Port 1 on my interface. I don't know where else you mean that I can change anything.

While recording - note VU meters are dead

Keeping take

Track shows data

Playing back - note VU meters are dead

I have no clue.
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 09:19 PM
I have a question. I rarely use the solo feature, but when I do, when I got the solo I want, if I saved the file would the solo be the same or would it regenerate the next time it was played in BIAB.
When I get the solo I want, I convert it to a MIDI file right away. I makes an exact note for note MIDI file with the solo. By making a MIDI file the solo never gets lost.

When I make a song and each time I play it it regenerates something that I want to keep. So I keep making copies until I have over 10 of the same song sometimes, and then I just pull the tracks I need out and put them into another fresh PTPA song. Then in PTPA I render the MIDIs to wave and then have the wave file to play with.
I think I may have gotten lost.

What was already stated here is that RealBand is PowerTracks with some BIAB features. I think a lot of people think RealBand is BIAB with some PTPA features.

I use Powertracks and BIAB. I never seem to have any luck doing BIAB work in RealBand. I don't want to do BIAB work in RealBand. It never comes out the same for me. So I just stick to the 2 main programs that PG music made.
For me PTPA is still superior to RealBand. I'm speaking for myself, not for anyone else. So don't get all RealBand on me.

If I expressed anything wrong here, point it out to me, I'll come back and correct it. I haven't done anything with the software for over a month at the moment, so I'm just going by my memory and notes I make when I work on a song. I make so many copies of the same song, sometimes with just a single note changed, I have to make notes or I get lost. Then there are other songs, I do in one take and that's it. I tend to Sing and play Guitar in one take on all my songs. I just can't get into a groove when I dub in parts. I play it straight through and if it doesn't work I do it again. I don't fix anything. It kills my performance. I recard the way I used to perform live.

When RealBand came out, PTPA didn't break. Since RealBand came out Powertracks hasn't lost anything. It's still the same program, worth 10 time the price as far as I'm concerned.
Wayne, (jeesh, another rant, sorry)(hope I'm not in trouble again)
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 09:21 PM
With 2010.5 there is now an indication that recording is taking place. The track will be turning red. If it was turning red & it asked if you want to keep the take. IT WAS RECORDING TO THAT TRACK in theory. Do two things:
first try and record as you did. Then RT click on the track and choose "select whole track" rt click again and and choose: audio effects/gain change/ using the drop down choose normalize. Now do you see the wav form? Yes? Good. No do as Rharv says.Choose all input devices and see what happens.
Posted By: DrDan Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 09:23 PM
Quote:

...or you decide not to use RealBand.




Based on the thread title, I thought that was the conclusion here.
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 09:25 PM
Options - Preferences - Audio tab - Drivers button

Click that path, then select evreything listed for input (by highliting each one) and THEN record onto a (blank) stereo track in RB.

You should get a bunch of tracks that show each driver and what it is receiving. RB 'automagically' records each enabled driver to its own track in series and in the order (from top to bottom) of the enabled drivers from the Drivers window you just visited. If you enable them all, we can see where the signal is going.

Drivers 'drive' devices so this is how you select devices (and inputs) in RB.
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 09:32 PM
Quote:

...
Wayne,




Oh, I'm gonna get all 'Realband' on ya.
PT is a crippled Realband. Plain and simple. It IS a good DAW, but compared to RB it is nowhere near the power.
Of course you need some Realtracks to realize this in use .. otherwise they are exactly the same!
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 09:33 PM
Quote:

I have no clue.



Now we're getting somewhere. I've said it once and I'll say it again. It may sync in. You are a self proclaimed computer expert and thus these programs should be child's play to you. This is your attitude. WRONG.
When you get this simple fact & stop talking down to folks that can run circles around you with these programs things will start to come to the front.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 09:36 PM
Quote:

If you record ALL available drivers (and hence devices) you will know if RB is seeing anything at all.

make sure the checkbox for L,R or L&R is set to 'L&R' in the "Options-Preferences-Audio tab" area
Click the Drivers button and select every available driver (device) by highliting them all
go back to RB Tracks window and select a blank stereo audio track

If you go to "Options-Preferences-Audio tab-drivers" and see more than one instance listed for M-Audio 1/2 then it's possible multiple drivers are installed and causing problems. If you see only that input and nothing else listed I'd say the drivers are wrong for your device (even if they work in Sonar).




First of all, please do not take my frustration with this product that I like very much but isn't yet working the way it is intended as anything BUT frustration. I am a NICE guy who laughs all the time, except when something that I should be able to understand and fix doesn't work. All those settings in the quoted section of your message are here in this screen shot. From what I see from your words and my screen shot, everything is as it should be.

Audio setups

Note that on the audio input drivers on the left side I can not move it to the top. The move button only moves the output side.

If more screen shots would help, I would be THRILLED to scrape and send. I DO appreciate you guys trying to help me. I only hope that you can understand the frustration as I am on DAY THREE with this. Again, please do not take my frustration as anything BUT frustration.
Posted By: jford Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 09:42 PM
I gotta head out from work and have a dentist appointment this evening, but after I get home, I'll try to post some screen shots and ideas later this evening (assuming RHarv hasn't figured it out yet, as he often does).

I've got the Fast Track Pro, with a Behringer mixer driving it (as opposed to your Mackie), so we should have a somewhat similar configuration. Mine's on a laptop, though, not a desktop, but I don't think that should matter.

I'll see what I can do to help you figure this out as long as your willing to work on it.
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 09:46 PM
On the left side of your pic (inputs) select ALL the available options; MS Soundmapper, M-Audio 1/2 and M-Audio 3/4 by clicking them (highliting them)

Return to RB and tape the key back down on the synth
Highlite a blank stereo audio track and hit 'record' for a couple seconds

You should get three stereo tracks as a result.
The first one will be the MS SoundMapper input, the next will be the M-Audio Line In 1/2 and the third will be the M-Audio Line In 3/4. Do any of these show a resulting wave file in the Tracks window after 'keep take'?
Posted By: Rob Helms Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 10:00 PM
Rharv and Eddie, I see in the screen shots that he has a aud out setting, but does he have the track setup for audio in?

This is what Rharv is saying. By highlighting all three you are forcing it to look at all three inputs.

Click the small arrows on the tracks control area, and see if you can tell if they are setup to input from the fast track
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 10:11 PM
The method I have described (numerous times) will take every input available into consideration. The Input on the Drivers window over-rides the Tracks selection dialogue you describe (as I understand it). The Tracks selection should list only enabled drivers. My point was to enable ALL available drivers and see what happens.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 10:11 PM
Quote:

On the left side of your pic (inputs) select ALL the available options; MS Soundmapper, M-Audio 1/2 and M-Audio 3/4 by clicking them (highliting them)

Return to RB and tape the key back down on the synth
Highlite a blank stereo audio track and hit 'record' for a couple seconds

You should get three stereo tracks as a result.
The first one will be the MS SoundMapper input, the next will be the M-Audio Line In 1/2 and the third will be the M-Audio Line In 3/4. Do any of these show a resulting wave file in the Tracks window after 'keep take'?




It gave me the tracks, but no wave data.

Here's the screen dump. 3 tracks, no sine waves.

Between then and now I went to M-Audio and downloaded the latest driver they had. When installing it said I had the latest. Reinstalled anyway. Restarted computer. No change.

It LOOKS like it is working. It just isn't recording anything, I have one more thing to try.

Tested with a mic instead of a line instrument. Nope.

Apparently I have something set up wrong, but I don't know what it could be. I am following along as you suggest things but it isn't working.
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 10:15 PM
OK
now I am stumped...
This should have shown *something*.

My fault I guess
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 10:22 PM
Quote:

Rharv and Eddie, I see in the screen shots that he has a aud out setting, but does he have the track setup for audio in?

This is what Rharv is saying. By highlighting all three you are forcing it to look at all three inputs.

Click the small arrows on the tracks control area, and see if you can tell if they are setup to input from the fast track




This has GOT to be where my issue is. It HAS to be. Yet I don't see anything wrong.

Audio input settings

The top left you see 24 bit, 44.1. That is consistent with how my M-Audio shows in the control panel sound hardware setup.

And you brought up something I was going to ask about last night. In that far left track identifier box where I see AUD Out - should I not see and AUD In right above it? Is that what is at the core of this that RB doesn't see those inputs?

I'm glad I don't drink.....
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 10:27 PM
Quote:

OK
now I am stumped...
This should have shown *something*.

My fault I guess




Fault hell. That was as good a round of troubleshooting as I have ever seen. That doesn't solve why now 3 of us are stumped.... but good deductive reasoning just the same.

This last screen shot I put up is the audio input config. As it should be, I believe.
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 10:48 PM
(the new pic)
As long as you clicked OK when leaving that window ... and it looks as if you did since you got three tracks recorded at once in RB (from previous pic)

It appears to me that RB is not recognizing the (actual) audio input device at all.
Strange.
Like I said; stumped me! That test should have revealed something obvious. We enabled every possible Windows sound device that RB recognizes ..
Posted By: musiclover Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 11:00 PM
Just tested my fast track pro with realband all working ok. In the fast track pro properties in the control panel of windows I have ticked under channels in bandwidth dialog
outputs 1 and 2 (balanced and unbalanced)
outputs 3 and 4 (s/pdif balanced and unbalanced)
balanced input 1 (mono)
balanced input 2 (mono)

only thing not ticked there is
s/[pdif input (stereo)
sample rate is 44.1

fast track is set there to record at 24 bit, at 16 bit in realband but will record at 24 bit too, after checking the above maybe change the bit depth in realband to 16 bit.

My fast track needs to be switched on before I open realband, if I switch on after I open realband then fast track won't be detected.
I need to close down realband and then open again and it dectects the fast track and records fine.
another thing to try is reinstall realband.

musiclover
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 11:07 PM
I also notice that one pic says 16 bit recording and the previous pic says 24 bit .. Probably not the problem but something is changing .. I just noticed. Stick with 16/44 for testing if possible. I like 24 bit much better, but sticking to a set bitrate can help solve issues.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 11:13 PM
Musiclover, check, check, check, check. Everything checks out. My interface is powered on 24/7 so that isn't it.

I hope to get this straightened out soon. Some of the people involved are in the whiz category and THEY are stumped. I would have a hard time thinking it was my hardware at all but I know stuff happens. Maybe I do need to reinstall Real band. I never even tried it until Sunday so it had never been used.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 11:21 PM
So let me ask this question. When I recorded that last few seconds, and the three tracks showed, does the fact that they turned color mean that something was really recorded, or just that the record button was used? When I go back up after dinner I am going to do some real backyard hacking stuff link trying to record with no interface plugged in so I can see the error messages that would happen in that situation.

I WILL figure this out. In this area of my life, like every other I am the most stubborn man alive. My best friend Joni tells me that she is sure i would bury myself alive to prove I know how to use a shovel.
Posted By: DrDan Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 11:24 PM
Well you don't need to hear this, or maybe you do.

I never record in RB, just not part of my workflow as I move from BIAB to Reaper for my projects. But after all this hoopla in this thread I thought I'd give it a try.

I read Rhave's setup instruction and in two minutes, on my first try I was recording in RB 2011. So it ain't the software.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 11:28 PM
Quote:

I also notice that one pic says 16 bit recording and the previous pic says 24 bit .. Probably not the problem but something is changing .. I just noticed. Stick with 16/44 for testing if possible. I like 24 bit much better, but sticking to a set bitrate can help solve issues.




Yeah that was testing every setting I could on the interface itself. Same results with both.

STILL concerned why the tracks turned yellow yet nothing recorded. And I have now tested with line and mic level inputs, with the interface set to mono, stereo.... input 1, input 2.... the only thing I have not done yet, and will do after dinner, is plug up a controller and see if it records MIDI.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/02/11 11:33 PM
Quote:

Well you don't need to hear this, or maybe you do.

I never record in RB, just not part of my workflow as I move from BIAB to Reaper for my projects. But after all this hoopla in this thread I thought I'd give it a try.

I read Rhave's setup instruction and in two minutes, on my first try I was recording in RB 2011. So it ain't the software.




I DID need to hear that, Dan. SO now, let's think. I know I am sending signal to the interface. The light on the M-Audio flashes to say so. That means that the issue has to be between the M-Audio and the computer. We h ave verified the computer settings, so the puzzle piece between point A (synth/mic) and point C, computer is point B, the interfaces connection to the computer. Please god tell me it isn't a bad USB cable..... Is it even possible that a USB cable could carry bytes one direction and not the other? Not that I know of, but I have been wrong before.

Well, not really... I thought I was once, but I was wrong about that....

Thank you. I'll be here all week,
Posted By: Rob Helms Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 12:14 AM
LOL that is a good one!

What i get from this is that you are not getting any signal in RB to the track level.

Let's start with what we know.

We know the interface sends signal because Sonar receives it.

We know that Rb is recording since the track changes color.

Okay Eddie, what version of RB? 2011? and what build?

Is the volume fader all the way up in the Delta driver applet?

Is there a volume fader on the interface that might be down now?

Is the volume output in the Delta (M-Audio) applet muted?

Is the green check mark showing in the RB track? (or a red X)
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 12:40 AM

What i get from this is that you are not getting any signal in RB to the track level.

CORRECT

We know that Rb is recording since the track changes color.

I DID NOT KNOW IF THAT MATTERED OR NOT.

Okay Eddie, what version of RB? 2011? and what build?

2011 (4)

Is the volume fader all the way up in the Delta driver applet?

I ASSUME THAT WHERE THE TRACK NUMBERS ARE ON THE LEFT? YES, IT IS

Is there a volume fader on the interface that might be down now?

NO. I HEAR MY KEYBOARD PLAYING THROUGH THE INTERFACE

Is the volume output in the Delta (M-Audio) applet muted?

I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT. "DELTA APPLET" IS THROWING ME.

Is the green check mark showing in the RB track? (or a red X)

GREEN CHECK
Posted By: jford Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 12:46 AM
Hi, Eddie -

As a start, and you may have tried this already, but here goes (in picture):











Let me know once you have that set. I suggest you do the same for playback devices.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 12:57 AM
Oh no it didn't.......

I looked at my wiring. My Fast Track was plugged into my USB hub. I moved it from the hub to a port on the computer.

Somehow that mattered and I can now record audio.

You all have my complete and expressed permission to call me "jackass".

I have NO idea why that matters. None. EVERYTHING else is fine and has been fine since I go this computer and put in the hub.

Un-freakin-believable.

THANK YOU to every one who joined me in my hair pulling adventure. If my frustration boiled over and was taken as anything more, I apologize.
Posted By: jford Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 01:01 AM
Okay, Eddie -

I suspect the problem was that it wasn't getting enough power from the USB hub. I actually went to Radio Shack and bought a universal power adapter for the Fast Track, because I didn't trust that it would receive enough power from the USB port to do all that is says it can do. You may want to consider the same thing, then I suspect it will work fine even in the USB hub.

And in the end it was not drivers, so you were right on that account. But it wasn't RealBand either.

So now, just enjoy playing with it and we're still here to help you with any problems you encounter.
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 01:25 AM
(cool)
Weird that it worked with Sonar though ..
Anyway, now you can have fun like the rest of us!

Thanks Robh and John, for hanging in there and helping him
Posted By: rkl122 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 01:28 AM
Quote:

.....

I suspect the problem was that it wasn't getting enough power from the USB hub. ........



Probably so. Although somewhere above, I think the OP said the interface is powered up 24/7. If no external power (to either the interface or the hub itself), that would imply the computer is on all the time. That got me wondering if the interface itself might need to be "rebooted." Buried deep in this thread is some teensy advice from one Peter Gannon, apparently ignored, but which would have effectively done just that.

So I'd be curious to know if switching back to the hub now works.

Whatever. Glad problem solved.

-Ron
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 01:32 AM
No advice given by Peter Gannon is teensy .. Not many owners show up to help like he does.
Posted By: Rob Helms Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 01:40 AM
We be a team around these here parts!!
Posted By: Matt Finley Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 01:40 AM
We've seen others who were so sure they could blow off Peter's advice. They do so at their peril.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 01:52 AM
Quote:

Weird that it worked with Sonar though




Dude, is weird even the word?

That was top down troubleshooting by everybody all the way to the floor and it was something stupid like taking it out of the hub and putting it into the computer.

Thank you EVERYBODY!!! Playing with Brent Mason right now pasting together a good solo. Fading out a held note... all of it.
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 04:46 AM
Hey Eddie,
You're not a Jackass, We have one of our PCs with a USB Webcam and 2 USB printers plugged into it.
Before we replaced the second printer for a newer photo printer everything was fine. Whe we installed the new printer the Webcam stopped working. This was a big deal for us because my wife speaks to her daughter and grandsons every week in England. We plugged and uplugged it a dozen times. and nothing worked. We thought the webcam was broken. I installed it on another PC and it was fine. We switched places with the new printer and they both worked, only now our other printer wasn't being found.
So I went back to the PC it belongs on and moved the 2 USB printer cables over to the next USB port. Then I plugged the Webcam into the first USB port and it was recognised right away. It was like musical ports. That same PC has 2 USB ports on the front, where I plug in thumb drives and an external HardDrive for backup. If I reverse the cables neither one works. So one goes into the left and the other into the right.
Before everything became USB I used to plug into any port and things would work, but now that we have more devices than ports the computer has gotten really picky.
I had a powered USB hub and it worked fine until I bought a new scanner. I figured the hub would work well because it was a powered hub and the scanner ran off USB power. Wrong, I had to use a USB port on the PC. The hub is off now and the scanner is on a different PC because the other PC ran out of ports. Who would have thought 6 ports wouldn't be enough.

It has worked out better anyway. The scanner works much better on the core 2 duo, with more RAM and even with my music gear, my music PC is much less cluttered than my wife's. Her computer area is beginning to look like an OfficeMax store. lol

Wayne,
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 05:19 AM
I think we should just agree to disagree. PTPA is not a crippled Realband and no one said Realband is not a good DAW. Many users here go from BIAB right to Reaper.

You're right I hardly use RTs. So there's really no difference in me using BIAB and PTPA like others who use BIAB and Reaper.

We both stand by what we believe. To each his own. I love BIAB but I have no use for Realband.
Many people here don't even know what Powertracks is.

If PTPA vanished tomorrow I'd be using BIAB and Steinberg's Cubase.
Nuff said,
Wayne,
Posted By: Rob Helms Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 06:36 AM
You are certainly welcome to your opinion Wayne, but the facts are simple RB is a product that came from a melding of Powertracks and BiaB. RB has everything Powertracks has with one exception, the TC harmonizer is not built into it. That was due from my understanding a licensing issue. But you can access it thru either PTPA or BiaB.

I have both, and have had Powertracks since version 10. It is virtually the same program as RB, just that RB does a whole lot more with the BiaB features added in. RB allows direct opening of BiaB files, and will generate RTs. PT does not do that. If you open the same files that you open in PT in RB it would act the same.

RB is certainly more feature rich, and that is why it is a bit more heavy. PT is a lighter weight program, because the BiaB features were not added, allowing people who do not use BiaB to have a lean DAW for basic tracking.

Rb was designed and built to allow BiaB users to take their creations to the next level.

Rb is not considered on the level of programs like Sonar, Cubase, and even Reaper due to that fact it does not have some of the very deep features those have, it is more basic, of course none of them can generate a realtrack. A couple things RB does not have that these bigger names have is Node based automation, tempo locking of VSTis, and things like Lanes, or takes. Interesting thing is PTPA does not have them either. The reason is that PT is RB, they come from the same coding.

Actually PTPA will not do anything that Rb does, but RB does a lot PTPA can't.
Posted By: jcspro40 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 09:20 AM
This is why I returned my USB audio card & went with an internal one so long ago.....
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 11:22 AM
Crippled wasn't a good word choice. How about 'lean and mean' ? I know others that still prefer PTPA. If I didn't use RT's I'd probably prefer it too. But honestly RB is PTPA with a few more BiaB features thrown in. Sometimes those features are handy here.

Eddie, thanks for letting us know what it was.
Posted By: musiclover Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 12:20 PM
Quote:

You are certainly welcome to your opinion Wayne, but the facts are simple RB is a product that came from a melding of Powertracks and BiaB. RB has everything Powertracks has with one exception, the TC harmonizer is not built into it. That was due from my understanding a licensing issue. But you can access it thru either PTPA or BiaB.

I have both, and have had Powertracks since version 10. It is virtually the same program as RB, just that RB does a whole lot more with the BiaB features added in. RB allows direct opening of BiaB files, and will generate RTs. PT does not do that. If you open the same files that you open in PT in RB it would act the same.

RB is certainly more feature rich, and that is why it is a bit more heavy. PT is a lighter weight program, because the BiaB features were not added, allowing people who do not use BiaB to have a lean DAW for basic tracking.

Rb was designed and built to allow BiaB users to take their creations to the next level.

Rb is not considered on the level of programs like Sonar, Cubase, and even Reaper due to that fact it does not have some of the very deep features those have, it is more basic, of course none of them can generate a realtrack. A couple things RB does not have that these bigger names have is Node based automation, tempo locking of VSTis, and things like Lanes, or takes. Interesting thing is PTPA does not have them either. The reason is that PT is RB, they come from the same coding.

Actually PTPA will not do anything that Rb does, but RB does a lot PTPA can't.





I have the TC harmonizer but I had to buy powertracks to get it, just wondering does the TC come with realband now or you still have to buy powertracks?

musiclover
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 12:21 PM
Please let's end this here. I never said that RB wasn't a product that came from a melding of Powertracks and BiaB.
I never said it had less features than PTPA, I said it had more and I never said it was less powerful than anything.
My only point, which I seem to not have made very well, was that I don't use it. That's all.
And yes neither one is on the same level as Reaper. That's why I still use PowerTracks. Otherwise I'd be using Cubase.

This was never meant to be a debate on which is better. I thought I made that clear. It is just my preference in the way I work and what I use. If any of my information about Realband has been wrong, it's only because I used what other users here have said on the forum and not from my own experience. I'm sorry if anyone thinks I dissed Realband, but I haven't, at all. I just don't use it the same as others have stated in this thread. The replies to my posts are just plain provocative.

Please stop, I agree with you. To everyone who uses RealBand, Wayne doesn't dislike Realband, he just doesn't use it! Make believe I had a megaphone and was just making an announcement. Anything else would imply I'm angry. I didn't use all caps, because that would say I'm angry and I'm not.

This really should have stopped with, "You are certainly welcome to your opinion Wayne" We both are. If anyone else feels they need the have last word and correct me, knock yourself out.

I come onto these forums and post trying to help. I spent some time telling Eddie about another problem he was having with recording. I told him about my battle with USB ports and hubs. Maybe it wasn't Eddie, maybe it was in this thread, I don't remember anymore.

Wayne, thank you,
Posted By: DrDan Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 12:27 PM
Quote:

I have the TC harmonizer but I had to buy powertracks to get it, just wondering does the TC come with realband now or you still have to buy powertracks?

musiclover




Has been included in RB for some time now.
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 12:47 PM
I won't call you Jackass. Maybe a little bullheaded.
It worked in Sonar. Just for the heck of it try plugging back in to the hub. It may have been just a loose connection and then you unplugged it & put it in the computer and it worked.Try a different port in the hub.Just to carry this further.
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 12:49 PM
Hi jazzmandan,
Do you know which version of RB did it start in? I have 2009 but maybe I'm not looking for it in the right place.
I like that feature, the TC harmonizer. Sometimes I get something really nice out of it. Other times I really make a mess, but it's always fun. The setting are so simple and they just beg me to push them too far. lol
Wayne,
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 01:18 PM
In Realband it is under the Track menu item and reads "Apply Audio (vocal) Harmony using PTW or BiaB..."

Since to get Realband you have to have BiaB I think it still pulls it from there technically, or from PTW if you have it.
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 01:29 PM
Cool, Thanks Bob. (I think I called you Harv a few times, sorry. Hope your name is Bob.)
Again, thanks, good to know. (making another addition to my PG Tips Text file)
Wayne,
Posted By: MarioD Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 01:47 PM
I have had problems with USB hubs also. That is why I always install a PCI/USB card in my music computers. If you google PCI USB cards you will find most cost from $9 to $20 USD. I only use one USB hub and that is for things I plug and unplug a lot, things like flash drives and USB external hard drives.
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 01:51 PM
Quote:

I have had problems with USB hubs also. That is why I always install a PCI/USB card in my music computers. If you google PCI USB cards you will find most cost from $9 to $20 USD. I only use one USB hub and that is for things I plug and unplug a lot, things like flash drives and USB external hard drives.



Great Idea for a desk top. Get a powered hub for a lappy.
Posted By: Ian Fraser Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 01:55 PM
Sorry - don't believe the Harmonizer is in RB 2011.5.
It just links up with either BIAB or the PTPA Harmonizer via a menu choice . . . and right now
the RB connection/harmonizer in the 2011.5 (3) does not work on my computer . . . but it should. Check
the post at the end of this Forum page.

Of course while having PT, I can use my RB SEQ file and take it into PT and do the harmony there - Handy to have PT as backup.

Cheers - Ian
Posted By: jford Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 02:04 PM
Hi, Ian -

Have you tried the RealBand Build 4 Update, which came out yesterday. It says it addressed some harmonizer issues.
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 02:04 PM
Hi Ian,
So if it shows up in my 2009 RealBand, it may be because I also have Powertracks? Think that's possible?
Wayne,
Posted By: Matt Finley Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 02:29 PM
Quote:

Hi Ian,
So if it shows up in my 2009 RealBand, it may be because I also have Powertracks? Think that's possible?
Wayne,



Yes.
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 03:04 PM
Thank you Matt,
I've been posting myself into a corner lately.
I got something right!

This was me when this thread began
<a href="[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/65793961@N06/6005050719/" target="_blank"></a>]Me then[/url]

Now look!
<a href="[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/65793961@N06/5987362083/" target="_blank"></a>]And now[/url]

Boy, oh boy. lol
That last one is me now. I artsied it up so you all couldn't see how old I really look.
Wayne,
P.S. I just renewed my Drivers license and the woman looked at my old one and said, Oh my, what happenned? I replied, Music. As I hobbled out the door with my cane, I could hear here crying, How sad.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 03:23 PM
Quote:

I have had problems with USB hubs also. That is why I always install a PCI/USB card in my music computers. If you google PCI USB cards you will find most cost from $9 to $20 USD. I only use one USB hub and that is for things I plug and unplug a lot, things like flash drives and USB external hard drives.




This computer has 6 USBs, and if i need more I will take the 4 USB port card out of another computer and put it in this one. I used the hub only because some of the devices are wide and take away access to the USB port next to it, and the ports on the hub are vertical. (Specifically the wireless NIC, which is the "thumb drive" style, but it comes with an extension pedestal/cradle that I since started using. And originally I had a bluetooth keyboard and mouse in an effort to be as cable free as possible, and that had a thumb drive sized receiver as well that was too wide, but those are out now too.) It was mainly for ease of access as my 60 year old body is tired of bending and crawling. I need to move things around up there anyway so my work table is in the middle of the wall instead of one end. I am too close to one of the near field monitors, like right under it, and that makes it hard to mix.
Posted By: Kemmrich Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 03:39 PM
I create all my "bed" tracks in BIAB and then export everything to Sonar Studio to do all the mixing and live recording. I don't use RB. I probably should learn parts of it, because it seems to have some good functionality. But I do all my mix downs and recoding in Sonar, because I know that better.
Posted By: jazzmammal Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 03:41 PM
Eddie, you're very similar to a good friend of mine which is why on the one hand I think we could be good buds but on the other I want to slap you sometimes. Other's will say "glad you fixed it" and drop it but not me. You ranted and ranted about all kinds of irrelevant crap when the problem was the classic "musician 101" stage problem: Check your connections. Again for the guys in the back row: CHECK YOUR CONNECTIONS.

Personally I think you should revisit the several other threads you put a rant in that was based on your frustrations here like the playing a keyboard live with Biab thread and correct things.

This kind of 5 page thread is what gives a lot of potential users a bad feeling about this software and is very unfair to PG Music.

Bob
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 03:56 PM
Good observation Bob, When I did tech support many years ago, on site for Typesetting networks, I always came into shops that were freaking out because something like the Typsetting machine itself was dead. That meant their whole operation was down. They worked on a very time sensitive schedule and they usually didn't have an extra $30 grand machine lying around as a backup.
The first thing I did was check the power cord in the wall. I'm sure you know that many times the plug fell out of the wall and the whole service call wasn't needed if they just would have checked the plug. And when they called we would ask them to check it before we came and they all swore they did.
Wayne,
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 04:04 PM
Quote:

Eddie, you're very similar to a good friend of mine which is why on the one hand I think we could be good buds but on the other I want to slap you sometimes. Other's will say "glad you fixed it" and drop it but not me. You ranted and ranted about all kinds of irrelevant crap when the problem was the classic "musician 101" stage problem: Check your connections. Again for the guys in the back row: CHECK YOUR CONNECTIONS.

Personally I think you should revisit the several other threads you put a rant in that was based on your frustrations here like the playing a keyboard live with Biab thread and correct things.

This kind of 5 page thread is what gives a lot of potential users a bad feeling about this software and is very unfair to PG Music.

Bob




Well, if you weren't right, I'd argue with you some more.....

I come from a tech support world where people call me and whatever is wrong is somehow MY fault, even after a lightning strike has cooked their motherboard. I have found myself somehow adopting that "I want this fixed NOW" attitude even when the problem may not be clear to anybody but me. The reason that connections did not seem to be relevant was that everything worked in Sonar. However, that was an incorrect assumption on my part. My studio computer has been in place since early June and has been powered off and on exactly 3 times after Windows 7 setup. I never power cycle it. And of course, power cycling rests everything, so..... Add that to taking the USB hub out of the loop.... voila....

I can not apologize enough to people who may have been rubbed the wrong way when I got on my roll but it is all I have to offer from here.

You really want to hear something, I will tape the call the next time I have to call my ISP and they ask me if my modem is plugged in.... I remember calling my cable people once and they actually asked me if my television was plugged in. My reply was "Do you seriously that when I went to sleep last night I got on the floor, crawled under the stand that has a 55 inch TV on it and unplugged it? You put your TV where it is going to be and it stays plugged in until you move. What kind of ridiculous question is that?"

For some reason, she did not see the humor in that....
Posted By: musiclover Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 04:16 PM
"My studio computer has been in place since early June and has been powered off and on exactly 3 times after Windows 7 setup"

I find that if something is not working right one of the first things I try is reboot the computer.

Musiclover
Posted By: rkl122 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 04:24 PM
Quote:

.......... I never power cycle it. And of course, power cycling rests everything, so..... Add that to taking the USB hub out of the loop.... voila....
.......


But you haven't put the hub back into the loop for testing as a couple of us have suggested. Being a problem solver (like many of us), aren't you curious to know for sure whether the issue was in the hub or in the MAudio interface? I know I am, and it's not totally idle curiosity, either. It could help with future configuration/purchase decisions. -Ron
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 04:46 PM
I know just what you're talking about Eddie. I've hung up on my ISP a lot until I got someone who didn't talk to me like I was an idiot.
But the check the plugs or connection thing, I had to relearn again with my USB problems. It seems some devices just want to be in the same port all the time and other want to be moved after something changes.
I don't have a USB hub card, but I did have a USB powered hub that plugged into a USB port. I thought it would save the day for me. One computer loved it and another one just wanted to spit it out.
Go figure. Yes, I love that "Have you unplugged you modem?" or "Do you know if you are plugged in or wireless?"
Usually by that time I'm just wired. lol
Wayne,
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 04:50 PM
Hi Ron,
Does power cycling it mean, completely shuttin down and pulling the plug?
I was told to do that sometimes and pull the power cord out of the CPU and hold in the power button. After about a second or 2 I hear a little click inside. They told me that was to dump everything that coud be left in there.
Wayne.
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 05:03 PM
Quote:

Quote:

.......... I never power cycle it. And of course, power cycling rests everything, so..... Add that to taking the USB hub out of the loop.... voila....
.......


But you haven't put the hub back into the loop for testing as a couple of us have suggested. Being a problem solver (like many of us), aren't you curious to know for sure whether the issue was in the hub or in the MAudio interface? I know I am, and it's not totally idle curiosity, either. It could help with future configuration/purchase decisions. -Ron




I was one of those suggesters. You know why? It defies any logic that recording was happening in Sonar & not RB using the Hub.One of a few things is amiss either:
1. It wasn't recording in Sonar
2. It was recording in RB but some miss setup by the OP was at fault.
3. The USB is meant to save face
4. FM is at work

OK now I like Bob want to like you as I think you are basically a nice guy and a former PM about your treatment and respect for animals puts on the top of my respect list but I've got to tell ya straight:
YOU PISS ME OFF when you start on your rants about the program. If you can't keep this to yourself & work constructively and listen to the experts, like they say on Shark Tank "I'm out!"
Your choice.
Posted By: Matt Finley Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 05:45 PM
Quote:

Quote:

"My studio computer has been in place since early June and has been powered off and on exactly 3 times after Windows 7 setup"




I find that if something is not working right one of the first things I try is reboot the computer.

Musiclover



Not only that, but despite my admiration for Windows 7, I reboot every week or so. Any badly written software with a memory leak can bring the OS down in time. Periodic reboots can keep that from being bothersome. BIAB itself used to cause this problem many years ago, where the computer would crash after repeated reloads.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 06:06 PM
Quote:

But you haven't put the hub back into the loop for testing as a couple of us have suggested. Being a problem solver (like many of us), aren't you curious to know for sure whether the issue was in the hub or in the MAudio interface? I know I am, and it's not totally idle curiosity, either. It could help with future configuration/purchase decisions. -Ron




I will do that in a bit when I go up there. I am equally curious if it was the hub or the power cycle that iin essence reset the M-Audio interface.
Posted By: Kemmrich Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 06:38 PM
So is it all working and everyone (almost) is happy?

Eddie, if so, you should go back to post #1 and post the fix. That would be a great help to newcomers who stumble upon this big thread.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 06:44 PM
Kevin, you mean respond to the very first post where I laid out the issue and quote the issue and the resolution?
Posted By: Matt Finley Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 06:50 PM
Kevin, it's a good idea, but you can't edit a post here after too much time has elapsed. I think two days is too long for Eddie to go back and do so. The SONAR forum, among others, does allow this and we do make use of it there as you suggest.
Posted By: John Conley Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 07:14 PM
In that a lot of you are using this Sonar, are you expected to be a decent sailor first, or can anyone who can paddle a canoe go looking for uboats?

I think this is where (yes, William Shatner is giving the thumbs up), I say,

"Up Periscope...wait doc that's a whatzit scope...don't lube my a.....NOOOOOO"
Posted By: rkl122 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 07:51 PM
Quote:

Hi Ron,
Does power cycling it mean, completely shuttin down and pulling the plug?
I was told to do that sometimes and pull the power cord out of the CPU and hold in the power button. After about a second or 2 I hear a little click inside. They told me that was to dump everything that coud be left in there.
Wayne.


Hi Wayne, this is getting far afield, but quickly: I think Eddie was talking about power cycling more in the context of peripherals. I have the M Audio 2496 (internal card). "Recycling" it seems never to have been an issue, but I think a simple reboot accomplishes a power recycle for the busses (including USB). If I ever need to replace the card I'd look at USB products (hence my interest here). When I have ISP issues that a reboot doesn't resolve, I unplug (the power) first the modem then the router for 10 secs, then reverse process. That's a full power cycle to me.

That procedure you describe for the entire computer is what I do before opening it up. Holding in the power button while unplugged is to clear static charges from the circuitry. That delayed click you hear, I'm guessing is the spring delay that keeps us from accidentally hitting the button and instantly shutting down. I think I read you want to continue depressing for a few more secs after the click.

Incidentally, Matt and others make excellent observations about rebooting Win7 (x64 sp1 in my case) either routinely or when there's a problem. It's so stable, there's a tendency to let it go and go. (Which I do myself, sad to say.) I think MS intended us to reboot more often. I do keep track of cpu and core usage with a desktop widget.

Anyway, back to regularly scheduled kibbitzing.... -Ron
Posted By: Kemmrich Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 08:17 PM
Eddie: I meant edit the original post, but as Matt has pointed out -- that seems to be an impossibility (except for the moderators, I guess).

Back to your regularly scheduled programming ....
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 08:27 PM
Quote:

Eddie: I meant edit the original post, but as Matt has pointed out -- that seems to be an impossibility (except for the moderators, I guess).

Back to your regularly scheduled programming ....



I do belong to some other Forums were they ask you to do a couple of things.
1. Enter a subject line that is meaningful--such as "Can't get RB to record" as opposed to "I quit"
2. We can't do it here but it's a nice feature that may be able to be implemented and that's the ability to be able to mark a thread as "SOLVED"
Makes doing searches for issues much nicer.

I don't think we know yet what the real remedy was. Haven't heard back yet how reinstalling the HUB in the chain worked out.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 08:29 PM
Since I can't edit the original, let me sum things up.

I started to experiment with Real Band after using BIAB for a few months. I had someone helping me via remote connection to my computer. Things went well while he was connected. When he disconnected, I tried to add real time audio to an empty track. That is where the problems started. The tracks would show to be recorded, but there was no wave data showing. Through my experimenting, many suggestions offered, and a great deal of (quite likely unneccesary) frustration fueled venting, I finally tried one last thing, which was moving my M-Audio MIDI interface connection from my USB hub to a USB port on the computer and restarting. As a result of moving to a new USB port, the restart also redetected the interface, and reloaded the existing drivers for it. Started Real Band again, and it worked. I have not been up there yet today, but will go up later and move it BACK to the hub and see of it was really the reconnection to a direct USB port that resolved it or power cycling the computer. I really suspect it is a combination of the two, but if it works when I plug it back into the hub, then it was the power cycle.

I will keep you posted.

I'll go up right after this next helping of crow....
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 09:05 PM
Thanks, so what I do is Power cycle. Like you do with a modem.
Good to know. I reboot this machine every morning when I wake up. I use it 24/7 and it's on playing DVDs, streaming movies and every internet thing, photo editing and music recording. Plus I stream NPR Jazz radio all night while I sleep.
Every night this machine has a scheduled full scan. 365 days a year. I back up weekly or more if I add a bunch of stuff. And then weekly maintenance. Defrag and Diskcheck.
Since it's our everything PC, I figure why not do a daily scan while I sleep. I never power down the monitors with the power switch.
I lost 2 monitors in the past 8 years, LCDs and they both popped when I hit the power button, which I used to do everyday. So now both our machines are on 24/7. Sometimes they sleep sometime never.
Wayne,

I also reboot after some long sessions recording with PTPA. After awhile it gets a little quirky, so I reboot and everythings back to normal.
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 09:09 PM
Quote:

I'll go up right after this next helping of crow....




Now living in the South I've learned to eat it barbecue style.
Posted By: Rob Helms Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 09:10 PM
To Wayne, thanks for the clarification. I appreciate your thoughts, and you are right. Just to clarify my point i was not trying to smack you at all, I was just saying that if you use PTPA to move song over to from BiaB, why not use RB, since it is PTPA with more features, that is all. I guess i said it all bassackwards. Sorry. It really does not matter where you want to do things, that is the beauty of choice.

Go make a song! And stop listening to my feeble rantings! Hey i think i will go make a song!

Hey Eddie, go make a freekin song Too!!
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 09:13 PM
Quote:

Now living in the South I've learned to eat it barbecue style.




Do you prefer the tomato type sauce like in Western NC or the vinegar based like in the east?
Posted By: Rob Helms Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 09:15 PM
Mustard based like down in central South Carolina!! uuuuummmmm good!
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 09:36 PM
Well seeing as I live as far West in NC as you can get.........tomato
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 09:43 PM
Oh wow, John, you over in the Asheville area? The most beautiful place in the USA?
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 10:01 PM
Don't worry about it. I reread the posts at the time, because sometimes I do put my keyboard in my mouth.
Everybody came here to help and things started getting confusing and all of a sudden tensions just got high. Not everyone but some of us, me included were not hearing what people were saying and also not clearly saying what they meant.

I'm fine, I just want to see if we can set a record for the longest thread here..lol
Wayne,

I removed something that I posted after I realized it was not funny.
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 10:04 PM
Oh man, Honey Mustard and hot..Ummmmmmm....sounding like Andy Griffith.
Posted By: DrDan Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 10:24 PM
Quote:

The thought of some of us old farts in the same room




Hey, I resemble that remark!
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 10:45 PM
I know I really do resemble that remark...lol
I don't know how many of us are old farts, but I know I am and I'm stubborn too.
Wayne,
Posted By: Rob Helms Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 11:00 PM
Here is a tune i did back in 2002 when i was just learning this craft with 'puters.

This one outta put a smile on your face Wayne! http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=133130&t=8050 I should redo that with what i have now.

The story was i was hanging around over at Sony's Acid Planet, and one of the other old coots said we should have a contest and everyone write and record a song with the how many old farts does it take to Rock and roll. This was my entry
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/03/11 11:50 PM
Quote:

Oh wow, John, you over in the Asheville area? The most beautiful place in the USA?



Yes. Kind of funny that we are both attracted to the places I lived. Bar Harbor and the Asheville area.Came here cause it reminds me of Maine without all the snow.
Posted By: jazzmammal Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 12:10 AM
Eat crow?? Oh no, don't tell my lady. She rescued a baby crow that fell out of her palm tree a few years ago, it looked like it just hatched no feathers at all. She nursed it along with a baby dropper, when his legs were strong enough she put him in a fake tree she has in her front room with a big bay window so he could see all the other birds. This was a big deal for her because she had to keep the door closed to that room and put sheets and towels down so he wouldn't mess all over the place. She then trained him over a couple weeks how to fly in the room until he could circle around and land in the tree or on her head without crashing then took him outside. She had him in the open in her front lawn for several hours at a time. He didn't want to fly for a few days then suddenly just took off and sat on the telephone pole looking at her and then flew back to her. She took him outside a couple more days and he wouldn't fly then one day he took off across the street to a big leafy tree, disappeared inside it and that was it. She's said she ocassionally see's a crow sitting on her lawn for a few minutes looking in the window and we suspect it's him but who knows? There's lots of crows in the neighborhood.

Bob
Posted By: Rob Helms Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 12:57 AM
So Bob, what is this yer Raven about?
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 01:11 AM
Bob, the only question I would have if it was me is "How do I feed a crow?" I mean, Purina Crow Chow? How did she find out how to nurse it to health, which she obviously successfully did if it flew away and still visits. Great story that it remembers where the crow nurse lives.
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 11:35 AM
I went to grade school for 8 years were we were taught by Crows.
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 12:44 PM
Just to illustrate how poor my vision is, I thought the post said She rescued a baby cow that fell out of a tree.
So I was just stting here wondering, how the heck did the cow get up in the tree?
Wayne,
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 12:45 PM
Quote:

Since I can't edit the original, let me sum things up.

I started to experiment with Real Band after using BIAB for a few months. I had someone helping me via remote connection to my computer. Things went well while he was connected. When he disconnected, I tried to add real time audio to an empty track. That is where the problems started. The tracks would show to be recorded, but there was no wave data showing. Through my experimenting, many suggestions offered, and a great deal of (quite likely unneccesary) frustration fueled venting, I finally tried one last thing, which was moving my M-Audio MIDI interface connection from my USB hub to a USB port on the computer and restarting. As a result of moving to a new USB port, the restart also redetected the interface, and reloaded the existing drivers for it. Started Real Band again, and it worked. I have not been up there yet today, but will go up later and move it BACK to the hub and see of it was really the reconnection to a direct USB port that resolved it or power cycling the computer. I really suspect it is a combination of the two, but if it works when I plug it back into the hub, then it was the power cycle.

I will keep you posted.

I'll go up right after this next helping of crow....




Still haven't heard back about the testing of the HUB. It's been 16 hours since you started on that Crow. It was pretty big though.
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 12:47 PM
I was taught by Mrs Pool. She was right out of the Black and White Bowery Boys movies.
She used to hit me with the ruler and everything. She older than dirt and mean.
I never went home without a note from her to my mother.
She was an old crow. (or bat)
Wayne,
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 01:07 PM
I went to Catholic School and we called the nuns Crows. I thought that was sort of a regional thing until I heard it said on the Blues Brother's movie.I laughed my butt off. In all respect they were the greatest teachers.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 03:26 PM
Here the nuns were called Penguins.

I plugged back into the hub, and the key here will be, AND AFTER A POWER CYCLE, everything worked fine through the hub. I did put it back into a port though just to avoid any power brownouts in the future.

A1 is particularly good on crow....
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 04:47 PM
Now that I think of it you're right Eddie. In the Blues Brother's movie they called them Penguins as well not Crows.
So it was drivers after all.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 05:03 PM
Quote:

So it was drivers after all.




Actually, it was not the drivers. The drivers have not been touched through all of this.

The M-Audio MIDI interface needed to be "reset" and when I moved it to a hard port on the PC rather than a remote port on the hub, Windows then redetected the interface and that would "reset" it, and I keep putting that in quotes because that is really not right term, but it is close enough. When I moved it back to the hub to test it, the computer briefly did the same redetection as when I went the other way. And then after testing when I put it back into the computer's hard USB port it redetected yet again. It was the power cycles that did the trick. The interface needed to be (again for lack of a better term) powered off and back on. And since it pulls power from a USB port, pulling the USB cable, counting to 5, and plugging back in would do the same as powering the computer off. That computer gets restarted so seldom that if there is an issue with the USB bus at that level (and there was) a restart is the only thing that will fix it.

When you move something from port to port, there is a subtle change in the hardware bus address that the computer has to make. Similar to when you would pull all your USB cables out to take the cover off the computer and vacuum the dust out of it... if you plug them back in to the same ports, you will see nothing. If you get two of them switched, Windows will pause and say "Oh, I have your drivers already but you moved to the next house."
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 05:13 PM
That's what happened when we replaced our photo printer. Installed it in the same port the old was plugged into and then the Webcam stopped working. By the time we were finished it was like musical USB ports they all moved over by one until they all worked.

This was my wife's machine and all 6 USB ports are being Used.
What a reboot. all the handshaking, it's like a town meeting in that box.
Wayne,
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 05:30 PM
Some devices actually re-install the drivers if they get moved to another port. Not a good thing as you can end up with 6 of the same drivers installed. The USB-to-MIDI adapters were notorious for this for a long time. One brand in particular.
Posted By: jazzmammal Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 06:11 PM
Quote:

Bob, the only question I would have if it was me is "How do I feed a crow?" I mean, Purina Crow Chow? How did she find out how to nurse it to health, which she obviously successfully did if it flew away and still visits. Great story that it remembers where the crow nurse lives.




She basically threw the dice and guessed. She used a little eye dropper and fed him pureed baby food and water separately and as he got bigger she fed him kitchen leftovers and trail mix. We've all seen crows, the adults eat anything.

She's rescued a few birds before but this was the only crow. Sadly most of them die shortly after falling out of a tree but she's saved 3 or 4 maybe.

Bob
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 06:34 PM
Are these Crows the same as big Blackbirds?
We have them here upstate NY, a couple of time a years when the seasons change and they scare the squirrels and even the cats. When the fall comes and the leaves fall off the trees, you can see the nests and they're huge and really high. They seem to stay pretty high up.
When a bunch of them drop down on our property, we can see how really large these birds are. And loud when they get into a little scuffle.
Wayne,
Posted By: DrDan Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 07:14 PM
Quote:

Quote:

So it was drivers after all.




Actually, it was not the drivers. The drivers have not been touched through all of this.






So bottom line, the who thing was fixed by rebotting the computer - or turning in off and on again.

Eddie, Eddie, Eddie, isn't that one of the first things we all do when a computer doesn't do what its supposed to do?

I don't know how Rharv got associated with the label of "its his fault", but this should go down in the forum achives as "pullin an Eddie".


Make sure you read my signature - my intentions are only intended to be humorous. After all Eddie did get us the new search feature in the styles menu and this entire thread has been a hoot.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 07:25 PM
Quote:

I don't know how Rharv got associated with the label of "its his fault", but this should go down in the forum achives as "pullin an Eddie".




I can deal with "pullin' and Eddie".

No worse than "pull your head out of your Eddie...."
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 07:47 PM
Quote:

I don't know how Rharv got associated with the label of "its his fault",




I guess that has been kind of an inside joke for a while now ..
One time a user said they tried everything rharv suggested and it still is not working (and the program was junk etc).
Problem is I hadn't done the suggesting he was referring to. Mac thought that was funny and replied that it must be rharv's fault.
Being in a humorous mood, Mac went the rest of the day blaming me for every problem anyone had on the forum.

I didn't notice right away what had initiated it, so it was throwing me for a loop too, until I PM'd Mac and he showed me the original post .. which was kinda funny.
So we've had fun with it ever since.
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 07:49 PM
Quote:

And the issue is NOT my M-Audio box. When I use Sonar I set things up the same way and can record real time with no problems.




And one more bird helping here.Maybe
This statement was made 2 days ago and was probably the single most important thing that through everyone off the track.So did it or did it not record in Sonar in the same session you were trying to record in RB.Just trying to figure out what really happened. If it did record then something is amiss with RB not detecting or hooking up. If you were mistaken then we've reach the end and it was indeed a need to cycle the interface.
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 08:00 PM
Okay. it worked in Sonar 2 days before all this started when I laid out a whole song. Closed Sonar down and went to bed. Next day started the "use Real Band, dummy (in my best Fred Sanford impersonation)" conversation so I did. I went in and I THOUGHT followed every tutorial correctly about how to set up the audio properties. Tried the ASIO thing and all of it. After many crashes the driver discussions started, which sent me down the "it worked yesterday" path. Relented and through I would normally be too stubborn to do so I went to M-Audio and checked, and that had a driver dated Dec 2010. Given that I got this computer in June 2011, I already had that driver because I downloaded rather than play with CDs.

This is where the "howevers" start. I had never played with ASIO, MME, M-O-U-S-E.... any of it. I plug the stuff in and it works. Done. All in BIAB. Not RB. Which is a WHOLE new learning curve, and I am not even off the BIAB curve yet.

So yes, the bottom line is that 60 years of macho kept me from listening to people who were earnestly trying to help me and coming off as an arrogant a**h***. (Which I can be when I set my mind to it, but over a bucket of wings at the sports bar watching the Browns lose I will have you laughing the whole day. I used to do stand up comedy, in fact.)

The thing that fixed this was essentially moving it from the USB hub to a computer port, if only to let Windows redetect the thing and give it a new address on the memory bus.

I have since finished the crow dinner party and hope you can all understand that after hours of doing the same thing and expecting different results, the definition of insanity, I wanted to toss the computer, the interface, all 5 keyboards, all three controllers, both drum machines, all 10 guitars, all three saxes, both mixers, the monitors and the effects rack out of this second story window and give up music forever.
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 08:06 PM
From M Audio. Interesting

Conectiv

Issue: Power Spikes/Fluctuations can cause the device to go offline and stop communicating with the computer. Audio input and output will stop functioning.

Workaround: There is no definitive workaround. Recommendations include using a power conditioner/surge protector; using a USB cable w/ ferrite bead; keeping all power supplies, neon & fluorescent lights, and other EMI emitting devices away from Conectiv; and connecting other DJ and lighting equipment to a separate circuit when possible.

AND

Q: I used up all of my computers built-in USB ports. Can I use a USB hub to connect my M-Audio device to my computer?

A: Do not use a USB hub during the driver installation! Install the drivers with M-Audio USB device connected directly to your Computer’s USB ports without using a hub. Once the drivers are installed and verified that your M-Audio interface works as expected that way, you can test the device with a USB hub to see if it still works properly. Most USB hubs we've tested worked fine with MIDISport Series products and USB MIDI Keyboard controllers. When using a USB audio device on a USB hub, keep in mind that all devices that are connected to the same hub have to share the native USB port's bandwidth. This means that it is more likely to run into problems when the bandwidth limit of the USB port is reached.

If you experience any problems, you should use the device without the USB hub. If you are thinking about purchasing a new USB hub, we recommend using a powered USB 2.0 hub that uses it’s own power supply. We've had very good experiences with powered USB hubs by “Griffin Technologies” and “Dr. Bott”.

AND

Q: My M-Audio USB Audio- or MIDI interface fails to install, doesn't work after installation, or drops out of the system every now and then. What could be the cause of this?

A: A common reason for such problems is the Power Management function of the USB Root Hub. Under Windows XP, disabling the Power Management for all USB Root Hubs in your system should resolve this problem:

1. Open the Device Manager (Start-> right click on "My Computer", click on "Properties" -> Hardware -> Device Manager)
2. Look under the category Universal Serial Bus controllers and find the USB Root Hub.
3. Right click and select Properties, go to the Power Management tab
4. Uncheck the box "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power." and click "OK".


Repeat this for each of the USB Root Hubs shown in the Device Manager.

AND

Performance issues with multi-core processors (Windows XP)
Text size [-] [+]

Computers that are running Windows XP Service Pack 2 and that are equipped with multiple processors that support processor power management features may experience decreased performance.

Symptoms
Computers that are equipped with multiple processors that support processor power management features, such as Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) processor performance states, require Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2). Additional updates are available to optimize performance and behavior on computers that are running Windows XP SP2. Without these updates, computers that are equipped with these power management-capable, mobile, dual-core processors may experience decreased performance or unexpected behavior.

Resolution
For users experiencing any of these symptoms, including irregular playback of the Click-Track in Pro Tools, the following file is available for download from the Microsoft Download Center:

Download the WindowsXP-KB896256-v4-x86-ENU.exe package now

Note: It is always a good idea to back up your valuable files before making any changes to your system.


MORE INFORMATION
Windows XP SP2 is required on computers that have multiple CPUs that support ACPI processor performance states. This requirement includes computers that support the following items:

• Multiple physical sockets
• Multiple-core designs
• Multiple logical threads, such as Intel hyper-threading technology


Any users experiencing a decrease in performance after this update, click here and scroll down to the Update details section.

AND
Posted By: Matt Finley Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 08:08 PM
I concur, I was puzzled by that detail as well. [EDIT: i was referring to post #326889, above, which was the latest as of the time I was writing this.]

To "throw" one more thing out there, it is possible in Windows to overflow the allowed number of USB drivers. You say, that couldn't happen to you? As mentioned above, just plugging in the same device to a different port can load a new driver. I was amazed how many USB drivers were loaded on my system.
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 08:11 PM
Quote:

Okay. it worked in Sonar 2 days before all this started when I laid out a whole song. Closed Sonar down and went to bed. Next day started the "use Real Band, dummy (in my best Fred Sanford impersonation)" conversation so I did. I went in and I THOUGHT followed every tutorial correctly about how to set up the audio properties. Tried the ASIO thing and all of it. After many crashes the driver discussions started, which sent me down the "it worked yesterday" path. Relented and through I would normally be too stubborn to do so I went to M-Audio and checked, and that had a driver dated Dec 2010. Given that I got this computer in June 2011, I already had that driver because I downloaded rather than play with CDs.

This is where the "howevers" start. I had never played with ASIO, MME, M-O-U-S-E.... any of it. I plug the stuff in and it works. Done. All in BIAB. Not RB. Which is a WHOLE new learning curve, and I am not even off the BIAB curve yet.

So yes, the bottom line is that 60 years of macho kept me from listening to people who were earnestly trying to help me and coming off as an arrogant a**h***. (Which I can be when I set my mind to it, but over a bucket of wings at the sports bar watching the Browns lose I will have you laughing the whole day. I used to do stand up comedy, in fact.)

The thing that fixed this was essentially moving it from the USB hub to a computer port, if only to let Windows redetect the thing and give it a new address on the memory bus.

I have since finished the crow dinner party and hope you can all understand that after hours of doing the same thing and expecting different results, the definition of insanity, I wanted to toss the computer, the interface, all 5 keyboards, all three controllers, both drum machines, all 10 guitars, all three saxes, both mixers, the monitors and the effects rack out of this second story window and give up music forever.




Listen my friend I'm glad it appears sorted out. Let's all learn from this and move on to making music. And helping others with their problems. Have you seen the issues I posted above?
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 08:20 PM
Quote:

Listen my friend I'm glad it appears sorted out. Let's all learn from this and move on to making music. And helping others with their problems. Have you seen the issues I posted above?




I read all of that and in fact printed it out. It deals mostly with XP as far as the power side of it but the rest is just good computer management stuff.

This is where "the world should be perfect" Eddie comes out. For M-Audio to say "Yeah, we know." without adding "We have a team working on that issue 24/7 until it is resolved" makes me angry. To tell customers who pay $200 for this thing that "it's good enough, and it works, so just accept it with lowered expectations" just doesn't sound like a good business model. At the help desk when I had to tell customers, by management order, "That is a known issue".... I hated that. I once told my bosses "If it is a known issue, find the right people to fix it, lock them in a room and every 6 hours slide pizzas under the door, but nobody leaves that room until this is fixed." Though I suppose the bathroom aspect would be a little problematic.... maybe gallon jugs....

But I am all for leaving this in the rear view. It was a simple issue that I made complicated.

One of my lyrics is "Everybody lives most all of their lives looking for mountains to climb".
Posted By: Rob Helms Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 08:35 PM
Ain't chu done with that album yet?! Get on with it slacker!
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 08:41 PM
Quote:

Ain't chu done with that album yet?! Get on with it slacker!




On to the next one!!!

The country album is done. Back to rockin'. First one is called "You Had Me At Goodbye".
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 11:39 PM
Quote:

"Everybody lives most all of their lives looking for mountains to climb".




Not if you're driving a 1977 Oldsmobile wagon filled with your band's equipment and a bad radiator.
Wayne,
Posted By: rharv Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 11:46 PM
Yer 'on' tonight Wayne. Smiled more than once. Only cause I can relate.

Smiles all around tonight
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/04/11 11:59 PM
True story,
We got more than halfway up a long hill in the dark, in the woods at night and the car would not go any further.
Not having headlights on the rear of the car, my wife just covered her eyes as I backed down the hill in reverse, because there was no room for me to turn the car around. She couldn't believe we made it. What else could I do? I had to try.

Ah, the good ole days,
Wayne,
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/05/11 12:59 AM
Quote:

Not having headlights on the rear of the car, my wife just covered her eyes as I backed down the hill in reverse




That is a funny story and I have one similar, though not "funny".

I was stationed in Danang Vietnam. Between Danang and Phu Bai was a road that wrapped around Monkey Mountain. The road was one vehicle wide, so there was a radio operator at the top and the bottom because if one was coming down, nothing could go up because they couldn't pass.

One morning at 3am I got a call (because I was motor sergeant) that a truck was hit with mortar fire on that hill and we had to go clear it. I told 4 guys they were volunteering to go with me and we set off in a 5 ton wrecker. When we got to the mountain I told one of the guys "You remove that right side mirror", which he did. Then I told the driver to put the right side of that truck against the mountain and scrape it all the way until we get to the wrecked truck. And because they had been shelled, we had to run on blackout lights, which are essentially lights the size of that little slot airplanes have to put razor blades in. (Who is shaving on these airplanes?) So with two guys walking up the mountain to help guide the truck through the darkness, we made it to the wrecked truck. Now, remember, 3am. Jungle. Mountain looking out over a valley. Sound travels really well. As we hooked up the tow bar, being as quiet as possible, the sound of the metal let them know someone was there and they tossed about a dozen more mortar rounds in. We all took cover the best we could, and then it was Katie Bar The Door to get out of there. Blackout hell! They knew we were there so we went down that hill as fast as was safe.

Only when we got to the bottom did one of the guys say "Hey sarge. You are bleeding." I looked down at my lower right leg and sure enough I had a little shrapnel that hit my shin. The adrenaline was so high I didn't even feel it. And I didn't get it bad. They landed so far off target that is was really at the end of the velocity of the shrapnel, to the point where I took all 3 pieces out with needle nosed pliers on the way to the med station.

Had they been better shots... LOL!!!

Moral of the story, I'll take that old car!!
Posted By: redguitars Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/05/11 02:44 AM
That's some story Eddie. It's funny when guys like us get to be our age now, things other people say sometimes make us think of things we haven't thought about for a lifetime. You and I are just about the same age. That's a big deal to me. Most people I know are either much older or much younger.
Since we made it this far and I'm not saying we're very old, but most of my friends have past away quite a few years ago, we remember things that happened to us so long ago, it's amazing we can recall them with such detail.
If I had to write a book about my life, I'd be stumped, but talking to people, the things they say make me remember things I haven't thought about in 40 years.
Your story about going up that hill with a wrecker made me remember that when I was in my 20s I was a Police Tow Truck Driver in NY City. Lots of stories from that, but not now and not here.
My point is that I haven't thought about that since 1973.
And I think maybe my hill story made you think of your Vietnam Hill Story.
I do wonder how some of us make it this far. I never thought I'd make it past 40. My father died when I was 8 and he was 40. I thought he was old. Now I'm just about 20 years older than he was.
He seemed like such a mature man then. When I think of who I was and what I was doing 20 years ago, I think of myself as being a kid. The fact is, I could have a kid that would be 40 years old now if I had one in my late teens.
My wife is in England now visiting her Daughter and grandsons. She's 39 and her huband turned 40 a couple of days ago. They seem so young.
I never got it when everyone said my father was so young, when he died. Now I do. He missed a lot of living.
Life is strange. You have a good night Buddy, Wayne,
Posted By: eddie1261 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/05/11 03:50 AM
Well Wayne, the reality is that I am diabetic due to exposure to Agent Orange in Vietnam. I am the type who has to be dragged to a doctor, so for YEARS there was no reason for me to go in for more than the occasional stitches, a shot of something for a throat infection, etc... never anything that involved blood work. At 52 my then wife kind of pushed me to my 50 year tuneup and that included blood work, EKGs, all of it. Complete top down physical including "the glove".

Well, "the glove" was and still is okay but at that point I was told I was diabetic. So doing the math, the Agent Orange caused it, and I did not know until 30 years later, thus did not treat it for 30 years, and MUCH damage was already done. I am sitting on 60 now and realistically I have 7-8 years left. I am good with that and my main concern is that if my dog is still alive she does NOT go to a shelter. That is actually in my will, that if she is alive when I go my executor takes her in. My house and all is to be sold and any profits go to the animal shelter where I got all my dogs, and that is my legacy.

Now to get this ONE CD out and maybe sell 100 units..... that will be my musical legacy.

But the point of the post is that yes, sometimes a story or a comment will trigger a thought of something that happened. Had I need 20 yards closer to where that mortar landed, who knows if I'd be here annoying everybody when my temper takes control of my brain?

And now to go out with my dog one last time for the day and off to bed for me.

You have a great night as well.
Posted By: jazzmammal Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/05/11 05:54 PM
Quote:

...but over a bucket of wings at the sports bar watching the Browns lose I will have you laughing the whole day. I used to do stand up comedy, in fact.)




AH HA! THATS where all this came from. Comedians are notorious emotional basket cases, I've worked with three over my musical show group career. My favorite was a former Dublin policeman with a black belt in Judo with that killer, crazy Irish sense of humor. Talk about a combination of skills and guy you don't want to piss off in a dark alley. We were partners for about 3 years when I lived in Canada. Paul was very quick with the comeback one-liners. You want to talk about Pat and Mike jokes? Or Father Murphy and the nuns? He knows em all. He was also an emotional wreck with several ex's but a great guy to be around anyway.

You're a good guy Eddie and a fellow vet. I wanted to fly in the worst way and was 'this close' to joining the Army chopper flight school in 1964 after I got my draft notice. I had already passed all the initial tests. Sounded like fun to an 18 year old and you graduate as a Warrant Officer with no 4 year degree? What a deal. If my father hadn't talked me into joining the Air Force instead I probably wouldn't be posting on this forum right now. I don't have to tell you what the life expectancy was of a new chopper pilot arriving in Nam in those years. I was in the Air Force Security Service and almost went to the unit at DaNang but went to Misawa, Japan instead. Remember when the Pueblo was captured by North Korea? Same outfit, just the Navy version.

Just try to chill a little scosch ok?

Bob
Posted By: silvertones Re: Okay, I officially quit *DELETED* - 08/05/11 08:53 PM
...
Posted By: jford Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/05/11 09:08 PM
TMI, folks!!!
Posted By: bert70656 Re: Okay, I officially quit - 08/05/11 11:40 PM
Thanks for your service Eddie and to all the other Vets. I served from 1961 until 1969.
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