Im thinking of buying the Audiophile edition of BIAB. Can anyone tell me if the Real Tracks will sound as good as the Tyros 4 arranger keyboard or some of the top Yamaha arranger keyboards ??
From what i herd on the demos on line the sounds kind of sound weak .One answer i got from a guy was those demos are compressed files and that if i buy Audiophile i will hear much better sound becuase the files are not compressed .Is this true or false ? And then there is the question what if i want to make it into an mp3 after creating a recording will that change it back to a compressed file or not ? Lot of questions here. Hope to get some feed back on these subjects .
Regards,
Greg
Yes mp3's are compressed files.
Yes the online samples are compressed files.
Yes, there will be a bit of sound improvement with the audiophile version, but not drastic in most cases. Comparing them to a sampler like Yamaha synths is not a fair comparison. Different animals.
I agree with rharv's answer.
In my opinion, will the audiophile version (which I have) be "much" better sounding? No. It is better sounding, but not by a great deal. As of version 2011, again only in my opinion, there is even less of a difference than there used to be.
If you are listening in a quiet environment like a studio with pro-level equipment, and you have good ears, then you can hear the difference (especially on certain instruments, such as solo acoustic guitar, and certain parts of a drum kit). Anything less than those conditions and it is more hard to tell. The one exception to that is to remember that noise is additive in a mix, so when mixing many RealTracks into a finished song, it is more likely you can tell a difference more easily.
About making the final mix into an MP3, in my opinion the bit rate you choose to encode the MP3 will make more of a difference than the audiophile versus regular RealTracks, but every mix is different.
You say that the Yamaha arranger keyboards are a different animal then BIAB.Could you further exsplain this ? And since they are different animals which one in your opinion sounds better as far as sound quality ?
I did hear the demos of BIAB through my pa sound system and i did hear a yamaha arranger keyboard through my pa sound system and they sound totaly different for sure. The yamaha arranger styles seem to have thicker bass and drums. BIAB seems like the real tracks are back in the speaker box not out front as much .More like listen to a radio .The horns and trumpets sound fine but the drums and bass sound weak as far as the thickness goes . I don't know how else to exsplain this .Is there something in BIAB that can ajust these real styles ?Is each instrument with in the style ajustable to correct the voices with in the style or is what i hear in the demos is what i would be getting ? Also does the computer have any thing to do with the sound .Im running my computer through a Mackie Mixer and power amp into a pair of 15 inch with horn EV Eliminators .Now hearing things through my head phones it sounds a little better why that is i don't know either .Alot of questions here . And my last quetions is do you think it is worth buying the uncompressed verson of BIAB if im going to play it through my pa ? Thanks for your last reply .
P/S uncompressed files are bigger and i found they do not send in e-mails for Sharing unless compressed into an MP3 .How do you guys handle that ?
Regards,
Greg
Hi Greg,
Playing a keyboard and using BIAB are very different.
What would you like BIAB to do for you? If you can gives us a little more insight on how you anticipate that the program will be useful for you, we'd be able to answer whether or not the program would be suitable.
Regards,
Noel
Quote:
BIAB seems like the real tracks are back in the speaker box not out front as much .More like listen to a radio .The horns and trumpets sound fine but the drums and bass sound weak as far as the thickness goes . I don't know how else to exsplain this .Is there something in BIAB that can ajust these real styles ?
Hi Greg,
You are describing a classic Gain Stage problem, in which your computer sound device is not driving the line input of your PA hard enough. That is typically described as a "thin" sound.
Don't know what you are currently using for a sound device or soundcard, but whenever I attach my computer to an external amplifier to use with programs such as Band in a Box, I always visit the software mixer applet for that sound device, locate the Master output fader and the Wav output fader - and turn both of them all the way up. This is because Line Level audio needs to be DRIVEN. Attempts to get the desired gain after that stage, such as turning up the physical volume at the PA, won't cut it. Or as I teach in Recording and Sound Reinforcement engineering classes to the beginners, "Always drive a line, never try to suck gain out of a line."
There is also the situation where you may have a PA input that is at Pro Line Level (+4dBu) but the sound device of the PC is likely Consumer Level Line (-10dBv) -- which is often a Balanced input while the PC soundcard is quite often an Unbalanced Consumer Level output. Read, "less voltage" there. This may not be a problem at your end, all depends upon what your soundcard and PA system are - and possibly how you have it hooked up.
It is possible - and actually proper - to have BiaB playback sound as rich and full, for the most part, as the arranger keyboard. And that can be done with the "regular" offering as well as the Audiophile version.
--Mac
I can't add anything to what Mac said, read his post carefully.
Synths use a 'sample' of the instrument. when you hit a note on the keyboard it triggers a note. That note will play the same everytime (or may a little variation depending on velocity or aftertouch, but not much)
Realtracks are actual recordings of musicians playing parts. You won't get a note triggered to sound exactly the same (like a synth), which adds a lot to the 'realness' of the end product.
Some people have become very used to sampled sounds and prefer them as predictable. Some (like me) prefer the 'real' sound of someone playing the instrument with all its nuances.
I am confused by the question. If oyu use Real band to create songs that play back midi events through some specific keyboard, they will sound the same every time because it is that keyboard generating the sound. If you use the prerecorded snippets of music that are Real Tracks, you get what guitar and amp Brent Mason was playing when they sampled him.
Not following here....
Midi is data, audio is sound. Midi note events play back on whatever device is listening on the channel.
Thanks guys for that info .Noel I had a yamaha arranger keyboard but gave it up . I found it do diffacult to learn how to play and sing at the same time .So i changed my thinking and sold the keyboard and would like to learn how to use backing tracks to sing along with.I'm thinking BIAB might be the answer.I did try some of those on line midi songs but they sound cheap. Was thinking i can take those midi songs and input them into BIAB and convert them to Real Tracks. Mac as far as the line levels goes on my computer where would i locate those ? I did locate the Realtec HD AUDIO OUTPUT would that be it ? I turned that all the way up. I do not see a wave output unless im not looking in the right place ? I Have another question about BIAB .Can i take a song in real tracks and input it into real band and do a balance there ? What I mean does it have a feature where i can ajust volume ,Bass and Treble of each instrument or does it just ajust volume levels .If it is possible to ajust the bass ,treble well i would think this could thicken the the instruments .Does BIAB have that feature ? When it comes to the keyboard arangments i was refering to the style accomplements .When i played that through my pa the 15 inch woofers were moving in and out like there was more presure on the speakers and more hard hitting and direct .It seems like the Demos on BIAB don't push the woofers it only drives my horns. I'M Not hearing those deep low bass notes. So could it be those demos are not mixed in realband or is it the sound level coming from my computer ? My computer does not have a left and right out put for speakers it only has one out put which i am using a Y jack and then into my Mackie ProFX8 mixer input jacks left and right channel 7/8 L-R im going from the computer size out put jack to a 1/4 jack into the mixer inputs from there everything is going out into my EV eliminator speakers .
Regards,
Greg
What is your pwoer amp like? Run your interface into a power amp, preferable also a mixer for some parametric EQ, and you should be fine. I run 100w powered speakers and the sound is great right out of RB.
Quote:
Was thinking i can take those midi songs and input them into BIAB and convert them to Real Tracks.
The Real Tracks don't "convert" midi tracks. RT's are prerecorded audio files. It sounds like you want to use Biab to create exact covers of standard songs. Biab is not designed for that. You can get fairly close but if you want to use Biab to create a cover of Satisfaction for example, that's not going to happen unless you're playing that guitar part yourself. You can load a midi file into Biab and mute say a rhythm guitar par, pick a style and load in one of several rhythm guitar RT's and hear what they sound like. But that RT has little to do with the midi file except tempo and key sig. Biab will give you the chords by analyzing the midi file but those chords may or may not be accurate depending on several factors. Chords are not part of the midi standard, this is something Biab does by itself. You then have to go into the Biab chord grid and correct any chords you think are wrong, then you can start generating RT parts. If there's a stop or punch in the midi file you want to duplicate there's ways of setting up Biab so the RT might do those but again, that may not be exactly what the midi file is doing. When you generate RT's they are not dependent on what's in a midi file, they are separate, discreet audio tracks. When you want to work with midi files and combine them with RT's that is best done with Real Band, not Biab and that is a whole other discussion.
As to your other question about your PC audio output, line levels etc, I think you need some basic education in digital audio. Start by going to Mac's Audiominds website (the link is below his signature) and click on the 'Getting Started' button. Lots of good info there.
Bob
HiJazzmammal,
Let me re word what im trying to say .There is a feature as i understand which is called the CHORD WIZARD. Acording to my understanding i should be able to take a midi song from off the internet and place it in BIAB .From there the CHORD WIZARD is supose to read the chords from the midi song and place it in BIAB .From there i thought i can take a REAL STYLE and place it into those chords in BIAB and that would give me those chord changes but only with a Real Style instead of the original midi sounding song i started with.
Regards,
Greg
Greg,
I recently sold my original Tyros keyboard. The "midi" patches and sounds were awesome when used with Biab's midi styles. You would only want to use your Tyros 4 "midi" patches that are not currently matched with Real Tracks.
The Tyros styles are factory set with DSP & effects, so if your song contains a Tyros style, you would only want to "add" to it with use of the Real Tracks that are not currently in that specific Tyros style. The Tyros styles stand on their own and don't need much, unless you need a Real Track solo in your song that can't be recorded "live" enough from the Tyros.
However, if you are using a Biab midi style to create a song with, you will want to use as many Real Tracks as possible in it to compete with the sounds of the Tyros 4.
Marrying both Real Tracks and the Super Articulated Voices on the Tyros in a song is what you are after. Use the Tyros voices on the midi parts that are NOT already covered by a Real Track.
Trax
Eddie my power amp is pushing 550 watts per channel and im using an exsternal mixer to EQ with,So i know i have enough power going to the speakers.I think it might have something to do with running the computer into my system .If i run my regular CD Player into my sound system and play something like Randy Travis the speakers have plenty of deep bass and good highs but when playing BIAB demos it sounds thin.
Trax I don't own a key board any more i want to get into backing tracks for singing with ,but im also debating if i want to invest in BIAB .I'm trying to learn more about it but as of now the demos really sound thin when playing the demos from my computer into my sound system .
Regards.
Greg
I gave this problem some more thought and i think now i know why the demos sound thin through my sound system.The demos are set at Flat response with no EQ on the instrumetns in the real Track . Also they are compressed files . So there is to factors that cab be the problem here 1 the demo real tracks are compressed and 2 they were created with no EQ .I think once the Real Track is inputed into Real Band and EQ set for each instrument in the real Track this should take care of the poor sound im hearing on the demos. Also i learned that i can exstrac chords from live audio files using the chord Wizard to place chords into BIAB. From here i can use a real style and place it into the chords and then send it to the Real Band to EQ to improve the over all sound of the style .Correct me if im wrong does this all make sence .
P/s can some one send me a band in a box real style after it was sent into REAL BAND to be E Q ? The demos are useless to me .
packed4heaven@comcast.net Regards,
Greg
Yes, what you are saying makes sense. RB does allow a bunch of FX for the tracks, and they do make a difference. EQ, compression, reverb, lost of fun toys.
BTW you can also just do the generating in RB too if you want. It'll find the chords and let you generate realtracks and MIDI.
Many find it quicker to do that part in BiaB though. Then go to RB.
Just for more confusion; the Audio Chord Wizard started in RB! Then was added to BiaB. The two programs share a lot of things but are very different.
Quote:
I gave this problem some more thought and i think now i know why the demos sound thin through my sound system.The demos are set at Flat response with no EQ on the instrumetns in the real Track . Also they are compressed files . So there is to factors that cab be the problem here 1 the demo real tracks are compressed and 2 they were created with no EQ .I think once the Real Track is inputed into Real Band and EQ set for each instrument in the real Track this should take care of the poor sound im hearing on the demos. Also i learned that i can exstrac chords from live audio files using the chord Wizard to place chords into BIAB. From here i can use a real style and place it into the chords and then send it to the Real Band to EQ to improve the over all sound of the style .Correct me if im wrong does this all make sence .
P/s can some one send me a band in a box real style after it was sent into REAL BAND to be E Q ? The demos are useless to me .
packed4heaven@comcast.net
Regards,
Greg
Consider yourself corrected, Greg. No offense meant.
I will tell you right now that I have no problem getting great sound from Band in a Box on my rather long in the tooth laptop when connecting it to any PA system. The Realtracks sound great as-is right out of the box after simply typing in a few chords, selecting a Realstyle or separated Realtracks, and hit Play.
You state that your Playback mixer for the Realtek card does not show the Wave volume fader. This is likely your real problem.
1) Open the Realtek's Windows Mixer applet by doubleclicking on the little speaker icon in the taskbar next to the clock.
2) When that little window opens, go to the OPTIONS menu and select PROPERTIES.
3) The next window should show two radio buttons, top one selected, which is the Playback mixer view.
4) Below that should be a little window with checkboxes next to all available audio outputs. It is likely that WAVE is not checked. Put a checkmark in front of WAVE. I usually just put a checkmark in front of everything there so that I will see all available faders and settings when opening the applet.
Once you close the windows it should return to the Mixer View. Turn the WAVE fader you just invoked all the way up and make sure the MASTER fader is all the way up when driving your PA as well.
Lastly, the physical connection, the wiring, from your pc to the pa may be a problem also. Please describe exactly how your hookup is established right now, what kind of adaptors and cables you are using and where they are attached at both the computer and at your PA mixer inputs and we can sort that out as well.
RealTracks have the ability to deliver good sound right as they come out of the box.
BTW, Band in a Box does indeed have Audio Tone controls as well as Audio Volume controls inside it, but you should not be adjusting those to compensate for low output, so let's get to the bottom of that first.
--Mac
Quote:
Let me re word what im trying to say .There is a feature as i understand which is called the CHORD WIZARD. Acording to my understanding i should be able to take a midi song from off the internet and place it in BIAB .From there the CHORD WIZARD is supose to read the chords from the midi song and place it in BIAB .From there i thought i can take a REAL STYLE and place it into those chords in BIAB and that would give me those chord changes but only with a Real Style instead of the original midi sounding song i started with.
Yes, this is correct. It was just your choice of words that was confusing. Technically you're not converting a midi song file to a RT song. You're creating a whole new song based on the style you select and the chords. The new song has nothing whatsoever to do with what's in the midi file except for the chords. That means you could take a midi file of Sting's Sister Moon, have Biab give you the chords then select a Bluegrass style and have it played back as a country foot stompin hoedown.
You can also set Biab up to play the midi file along with your new generated tracks. By playing around inside Biab's SEQ window, you can mute the midi tracks you want to replace with new RT parts but still hear the other tracks. Doing this you can keep certain song specific parts that identifies what it is.
Once you get into this, Biab and RB can do whatever you need for your backing tracks to sing with. Guys on this forum have been doing that for years with great results. Also, keep working with Mac, he will get your audio problem solved. I've got a nice home studio set up plus I've played Biab live from my laptop. I get all the in-your-face punch you would ever need through my PA.
Bob
I found this discussion interesting and helpful, since I use BIAB and a Yamaha arranger in live settings almost daily. As a solo performer, I select which to use depending on the gig and various circumstances. I get plenty of gain with both through a small mixer and powered EV speakers. Fortunately, that's never been an issue for me. With BIAB, I was slow to adopt the Real Tracks and stayed with midi for a long time. Now, I've seen the light and have moved toward the RTs, especially with the latest additions and upgrades. I do a lot of remixing and resaving to keep things right. I've got far more material, styles, and songs to work with in BIAB. In this case, I'm on guitar, with vocals. However, the Yamaha styles and polished sound really sit well for instrumental dinner music in a solo setting. In terms of overall sound from the speakers, I can't say my clients prefer one over the other. The rhythm section from BIAB approximates a real band, in my estimation, better than the arranger. The arranger, however, seems to be a fatter, fuller sound. Those strings, vocal backups, etc. really dress it up. Wish BIAB had that. My dream would be the "marrying" (as someone said) of the two programs. For recording or creating backing tracks, imagine being able to quickly type-in chord changes for a professional arranger, without having to play it in real time, or use the dreadful step recording? I'd pay dearly for something like that.
Hello Mac ,
I clicked on the icon and opened the menue.I do not see propertes and I do not see any Wave at all .The only thing i see is REALTECK HD AUDIO OUTPUT .I ajusted that all the way up.Does not make any difference on the sound quality .Why does WAVE make the difference? I don't know where else to look for this .Is it possible i do not have WAVE on this computer ? I only see REALTECK HD AUDIO OUTPUT LEVEL.Any other place to look for this WAVE ? Thanks for your support .
Regards,
Greg
Mac just to answer the other part of your question,There is an output for speakers on my computer .There is no left or right outputs on my computer just one out put .I then have a cable which fits the computer out put which is much smaller then 1/4 inch. The wire splits up into left and right with 1/4 inch jacks on the other end . I then have that connected to the input left and right on my external mixer. The power amp is connected to my mixer and then out to the Pa Speakers. Here is the link to this mixer im using ------->http://www.mackie.com/products/profx8/ I am connected to the 7/8 inputs one 1/4 jack on the top and one 1/4 on the bottom input.This is the way Mackie tec support told me to hook it up.
Regards,
Greg
The Y adaptor, with the 1/8" plug into the computer output, is the little 1/8" plug a TRS type (two insulating bands between barrel and tip or one insulating band there?).
With a Mackie board, which by design splits the difference between Consumer and Pro levels, may not be driven hard enough into a Line input on the mixer. There are ways to deal with that, but first need to know the above and also more about your computer and soundcard. Laptop or desktop? The little 1/8" output you are using, is it the earphone output of a laptop or the Line Output of a desktop? What Operating System? Type of PC, brand and model?
--Mac
Hi Mac ,
I have the Dell inspiron
operating system 64 bit
Windows 7 Home Premium
4 Gig
Processo Intel R Celeron R CPU
Sound card I dont know where to look for that ?
I have 1/8 plug coming out of the speaker output of my computer which has two bands on it and the 1/4 jacks at the other end which goes into the mixer have one band .One jack is going to input left and the other one is going to input right and 1 eq, hi ,mid ,low for both channels . I am getting enough volume into the speakers becuase the horns are loud but the instruments don't seem to sound fat only the sax and horns .The drums sound thin and so does the bass. I'm thinking it could be that the demos i am hearing on line are playing at flat response and are compressed files. I did ask if some one could send me a BIAB Real Style that was put through the RealBand mixer and EQ to see if that would make the differnce but no senders so far. All the instruments in the Demos are running at flat response. The Demos are useless. Does this not make sence ? Thanks for your support
Regards,
Greg
Here's one sample I did from a few years ago for Ed Bulmer (back when Realtracks were very new). Realtracks actually sound better now than back then (new and improved algorythm) -
http://edbulmer.com/mp3samples/simple.mp3Once again though, a compressed file.
I'm working on one currently using some RT's but it's not ready yet.
I'm sure there are better examples out there.
Quote:
I found this discussion interesting and helpful, since I use BIAB and a Yamaha arranger in live settings almost daily. As a solo performer, I select which to use depending on the gig and various circumstances. I get plenty of gain with both through a small mixer and powered EV speakers. Fortunately, that's never been an issue for me. With BIAB, I was slow to adopt the Real Tracks and stayed with midi for a long time. Now, I've seen the light and have moved toward the RTs, especially with the latest additions and upgrades. I do a lot of remixing and resaving to keep things right. I've got far more material, styles, and songs to work with in BIAB. In this case, I'm on guitar, with vocals. However, the Yamaha styles and polished sound really sit well for instrumental dinner music in a solo setting. In terms of overall sound from the speakers, I can't say my clients prefer one over the other. The rhythm section from BIAB approximates a real band, in my estimation, better than the arranger. The arranger, however, seems to be a fatter, fuller sound. Those strings, vocal backups, etc. really dress it up. Wish BIAB had that. My dream would be the "marrying" (as someone said) of the two programs. For recording or creating backing tracks, imagine being able to quickly type-in chord changes for a professional arranger, without having to play it in real time, or use the dreadful step recording? I'd pay dearly for something like that.
There is one that I know of in the works, called vArranger by a musician/programmer in France named Dan.
I bought the current version & he is working on an add-on MIDI Export module. It currently reads Ketron
styles, some Yamaha styles with Roland styles planned in the future.
Quote:
The Demos are useless. Does this not make sence ? Thanks for your support
Regards,
Greg
Greg,
I've been trying to tell you that when I stream any of the web demo files here, they are not thin sounding at all. They are very near to spot on if not spot on as far as gain staging, EQ and the rest of it. My system with pc is normalized as to sounds coming out of the soundcard and into the mixer. I keep my mixer's input channels EQ shelving at or near the 12 o'clock mark, too.
There is something going on with your computer system and the soundcard or the connection to the mixer that is causing this problem for you.
First thing to try when troubleshooting audio problems is substitution.
Take a CD player that has the same 1/8" stereo output on it, such as for earphone output, disconnect the plug to mixer from your computer soundcard, and plug it into the CD player. Now, without changing any settings on the PA system, play a CD that you know sounds good to you. We call this a "reference recording" in the biz, which simply means a well mixed and mastered recording in a genre that you know and also a recording that you've listened to long enough that you have a good idea what it should sound like.
Fisrt thing to find out is if that CD sounds the same as your Band in a Box demo songs when played back through the same channels and system, or not.
If the CD sounds great, nice and full, then the fickle finger of fate points to something within your computer system. Might just prove that what you really are finding out is that it is time to purchase, install and use a good aftermarket sound device that has better output and more control.
Again, I know you may be thinking that I'm just some fanboy or that I work for PGMusic (I don't) and am trying to lead you astray here, but nothing could be further from the truth. The web posted demo songs sound great here. Been streaming them and listening through my reference nearfield monitoring system in my home studio as I type this. They sound ready for radio, man. And they are.
--Mac
Hi Mac,
I don't have a CD Player with an 1/8 connection but I do have a cd player with and RCA out put connection with an 1/4 inch adaptor which goes into my 1/4 female inputs left and right on my mixer and then through my amp and into my speakers .It sounds rich and Full. It is possible my sound card could be cheap .The question is how much is a good sound card cost and who would install it for me? .I have herd there are some external sound cards out there that do not need to be installed inside the computer but the cost of one of those is beyond me. Which model external sound card would serve the purpose? What is your recommendation ? What are the steps I need to take to search and find out what sound card i have now in my computer and if this one is causing the problem ? If I know the model of my sound card you can then give me your opinion as if this sound card is good or bad . Thank you for your support
Regards,
Greg
Hi Rharv,
I had a listen to your song created from BIAB .The drums sounded great and the vocals were excellent but the bass did not seem all that heavey through my sound system When i listened through my head phones on my mixer it self the bass was some what better. Did you work that song ? Did you run it through realband to ajust E Q mid,High and low or was that at flat response much like the demos on line ? Thanks for sharing
Regards,
Greg
That had some work done to it a few years back. I think Mac has found your issue,
Do you have a PCI slot available on the computer? Installing a soundcard should not be that hard. PCI is often the most stable, but USB can work.
Quote:
Hi Rharv,
I had a listen to your song created from BIAB .The drums sounded great and the vocals were excellent but the bass did not seem all that heavey through my sound system When i listened through my head phones on my mixer it self the bass was some what better. Did you work that song ? Did you run it through realband to ajust E Q mid,High and low or was that at flat response much like the demos on line ? Thanks for sharing
Regards,
Greg
The above statement in bold, plus the fact that your report a nice full sound from inputs other than the computer, seems to be telling us that whatever your problem is lies within your PC.
Just telling us, "Dell Inspiron" doesn't give enough info for me to search out your actual system specs and thus be able to recommend a sound device that meets your requirments of working and playing well with the system. "Inspiron" covers a wide range of their products, at this point I'm not even sure if you have a full size desktop or a compact or slimline or maybe even a laptop.
Locate the actual Dell model designation numbers and post that here exactly as the mfr has put it on the cabinet. From there I should be able to search the Dell website support pages and be able to scope out whether or not you have an extra slot available and more importantly, of what type, could be PCI, but these days a newer machine might just be touting the newer PCIe slot. Or it might only have USB connect available for such.
Once we have the actual model designation nailed, then we can look into aftermarket sound devices and hopefully can come up with something that is both fully capable and also doesn't break the bank account.
--Mac
Hello Mac i got some information for you ,
I spoken with dell tec support .He does not think changing sound cards would make any difference if any .I did ajust some settings in my computer for me .Seems just a little better but im still not happy with my sound .He said if i wish i can buy a better sound card but again he said he does not think it would make much of a difference .But any way here is the model # of my computer -----> INSPIRON 560 He did say my sound card was not the top of the line and was a basic one but still thought it was ok .But he is not a sound proffesional so i can not go by what he is saying totaly . I have 20 days left on my warrenty and he said if i buy from dell they will walk me through the install of the new sound card. You mentioned about after market sound cards. Can i get a better price with an after market one ? Dell tec said there is a slot for a sound card in my computer but the one that is in there now is connected to the motherboard .He recomended this sound card ----->
Get extreme audio performance from your PC with the PCI Express Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium sound card. You'll hear realistic EAX 5.0 sound effects and 3D positional audio in your games that's so accurate you can ... Full Description
Dell Price $79.99
What is your advice here . Thanks for your support,
Regards,
Greg
Hopefully Mac chimes in, but when I looked at your computer specs I notice what is posted below. Yet their tech says it won't make much difference??
From Dell.com-
Inspiron 560 specs -
Sound Card
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio up to Creative SoundBlaster® X-Fi Xtreme Audio (D)â€
While an integrated sound solution is fine for playing MP3s and CDs, simple presentations, and other basic computing, a sound card can dramatically broaden your audio horizons. In addition to crisp multi-channel sound with maximum realism, sound cards offer high-resolution, low-latency and feature-rich recording for audio enthusiasts and professionals.quoted from
http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-560/pdThe fact you only have PCIe slots available will limit your selection for a card inside the computer. Not many making PCIe as far as I know.
Greg, unless a tech support person happens to also be into DAW's like we are they will have no clue what you're talking about. All they know is you can plug in one of those stupid little mini plugs into a $100 desktop PC speaker system and play your games or watch a movie. For that the guy says "sure, your soundcard is fine".
Don't worry about it though, as a PC your Dell is perfectly good. Also don't worry about installing another soundcard inside your computer, that's why there's lots of very good USB external ones. People here use pretty much all of the different names with good results. I have the EMU, others have a Focusrite, I know someone uses a Roland, there lots of different ones. The price depends on how many inputs and outputs. My Roland Sonic Cell is also an interface and lots of verious guitar sims, and other hardware outboard gear also hook up via USB and can act as an interface as well so depending on your plans you may not need to buy a completely separate USB interface, some other piece of gear may do it.
In my case I have the top of the line 1820M with 8 ins/outs so my EMU costs around $500. They also have some with 2 in/outs for $100-150 or so. You also get pro level 1/4" and RCA plugs, individual headphone outs plus much, much higher quality preamps and circuitry than what's in that el cheapo Real Teck chip on your motherboard.
I'm out of date on the latest offerings, just Google "USB audio/midi interface" find one that fits your budget and then ask us about it before you buy.
Bob
Hi Bob ,
I was looking at the EMU AUDIO INTERFACE ,looks like they discontinuted that model. When i spoke to the tec at dell they told me there is no exsternal sound cards. They did say there is a slot to add a better sound card .This exsternal interface you are talking about has me confused .Is that the same as a sound card that is within a computer ? how would that hook up into my mixer ? I was using my mixer as my inputs for mic and affects like reverb,So why would i need this exsternal device for hooking up my mic ? As far as an exsternal device which model for a $100.00 would be better then the sound card i have in my dell ? Would a $100.00 device be ok .Beings i want to buy the audiophile verson of BIAB that in it self will break the bank. Today i was doing some more exsperementing with my Pa System .I hooked up a cd player direct into my mixer and just used that instead of the computer still the low end im not happy with .Im not sure if the problem is all in the sound card or not . Played the cd player with Randy Travis music and still am not hearing a good low end.If i stand back as close as i can to the wall the bass picks up and sounds more solid and low end so im wondering if the acoustics in the room is playing a part in this. As i walk closer to my pa speakers i start losing the bass .As i back up and get closer to the back wall the bass picks up.What could be going on here ? Still waiting for Mac's input .Thank you all for your support.
Regards,
Greg
large bass sounds take room to develop the waveform in the air. I think that explains some of your bass issue.
External cards are commonly connected thru USB to the computer and standard 1/4" jacks to the audio inputs/outputs.
Greg, remember when I said earlier you need some basic education in digital audio? I suggested you go to Mac's website and start reading. Have you done that yet? If not, do so. I'm certainly not geting on you here because you just don't know and there's nothing wrong with that. I didn't know much about this stuff 10 years ago either.
Don't pay any attention to and don't refer to what that Dell tech is telling you. HE HAS NO CLUE.
This is the current EMU stuff:
http://www.sweetwater.com/c703--E-MU--PCI_Audio_InterfacesNote these new EMU's use the PCIe slot.
Here's Sweetwaters complete list of EXTERNAL interfaces. That Dell tech said what? To be fair he may be referring to a "Soundcard" in the old fashioned sense. Soundcard used to mean it has it's own built in synth to provide sound but they don't do that any more. This is why the term soundcard is not used any more. The proper term is "audio/midi interface".
http://www.sweetwater.com/c695--USB_Audio_InterfacesCheck out the first one on the list, the PreSonus AudioBox. Don't you think the mic inputs and other stuff is a heckuva lot better than that pos chip in your Dell?
I'm not recommending Sweetwater or anything, just using them as an example. I've heard they're a good company though.
This is a comment to the rest of the forum because we all had a big discussion about this recently. See what happens when we don't use the correct terminology? Things change, we have to go with it.
Bob
Bob's suggestion of Sweetwater is a very good one. They are an excellent company, and they have perhaps the most knowledgeable and experienced sales staff of any of the large retailers of pro and pro-sumer audio equipment. I get most of my stuff from them.
Bob also mentions a discussion about terminology, and while I remember that thread, I did not think we had all decided to abandon the term 'soundcard'. I have no problem continuing to use it, as long as there are sufficient facts to determine the context of the discussion. That's the key in most situations: we need to know exactly what you already have, and what you intend to do.
Hi Bob ,
First of all i would like to say that correct me if im wrong but i think my mixer is an audio interface with USB. ------>
http://www.mackie.com/products/profx8/ Please check out the specs on this and see what you think. Is my mixer an audio interface since it has USB connectivity ? Anyway i tried to ways to hook this up .1 Connected by way of USB .2 I hooked it by way of the out put of my computer 1/8 jack to 1/4 inch jack into the preamp that is built into my mixer .Hands down the connection with out the USB sounded better .When running it through the preamp channel 7/8 that is built into the mixer i got better results.
rharv yes you are right with pa speakers the further back you go the bass gets better due to the waveform in the air .The bottom line is the speakers are to big for the room im in i think .These speakers i think are not ment for house use they are just to dang big.I could go ahead and sell them but then i would have a power amp to deal with also .My power amp is pushing 550 watts per channel and im not sure if there are any smaller speakers out there that would match up with that kind of power. Maybe i should have went with a good pair of monitor speakers with a sub woofer of some kind to fill the room .My speakers i think were designed for long throw application . Rharv you make sence the room is not big enough and the speakers do not have a chance to get off the ground. It's like a race car not being able to get out of first gear . So yes you are right Waveform is playing a big part in this all. I tried to re arrange the speakers in the room and got some better results .I took the longest wall in the room and placed the speakers one in each corner. I then tried one of those BIAB demos and it sounded 10 times better. For a room that is about 11 feet by 20 feet im really thinking the sound system is to big for this room but much better since i placed the speakers on the longest wall. Thanks for exsplaining to me about Waveform in the air. The sound card in my computer may cause some quality lose but im now thinking the bigger factor is it has to do with the size of the room and the size of my sound system .
Regards,
Greg
When you connect that Mackie via USB to your computer, are you using the USB connect for listening to sounds that the computer makes? Or is that side still connected to the mixer via analog line cables?
--Mac
Hi Mac ,
When i am listening to sounds that the computer makes i have done it both ways .I can use either the USB connection or use analog line cable which is split going out from 1/8 computer connection to the input 1/4 inch connection channel 7/8 on the mixer.The USB is not going through a pre amp with mid ,low and high asjustments it only lets me ajust sound shape with the Graphic EQ and not with the pre amp channel ,low ,mid and high so with the analog hook up i get the low ,mid and high ajustment besides the Graphic EQ.Again with USB connection i only get control over the Graphic EQ Becuase with USB the computer is not feeding through one of the single pre amps 7/8 input .
Regards,
Greg
Yes! That Mackie is a great audio interface. Look at page 10 and 11 of your owners manual. It tells you the Mackie receives the two channel main mix from your computer via the USB cable. That means you do NOT run audio from the back of your PC, the audio is going out from the Mackie. Here's where it's a little tricky for you if your not used to this. The Mackie uses XLR connectors for the main audio output. That means you have to get XLR cables to run to either your studio power amp or your powered monitor speakers. Note what it says on page 11 about adjusting the USB audio output coming from your computer. I'll bet that's where your problem lies with the weak sound you're describing since you're saying you have adjusted your wav outputs to the max already.
The one thing missing on the Mackie is midi but you may not need that. All newer keyboards/sound modules use USB for midi and the audio. My Roland Sonic cell for example. It's hooked up via USB so it plays any midi tracks and the audio outputs goes to my studio monitoring system which is controlled by my Behringer mixer, in your case any audio outputs from any other equipment goes into your Mackie. If you have some older equipment that does not have USB and you want to use it for midi sounds then you would need a separate USB midi adapter to go along with the Mackie but the audio outputs still goes to the Mackie.
Bob
Quote:
Again with USB connection i only get control over the Graphic EQ Becuase with USB the computer is not feeding through one of the single pre amps 7/8 input .
Regards,
Greg
Greg, you must have written this at the same time I was posting my last reply.
This is the way you want it to work, you want to use the USB, not the 1/8" audio mini plug. Everything concerning the sound quality is done inside whatever software you're using, in this case Biab. The whole point of using a DAW is for you to do your final mixing there before it's sent out to your studio monitoring system. That includes any EQ. You keep your mixer EQ set flat, otherwise you don't know what your actual mix sounds like because that's external to the mix. If you keep the Mackie flat and your mix sounds like crap, then you fix it inside the software. Mackie included that EQ section for live work where as they described, you may want to mix the output from a laptop with vocals or instruments on stage but for studio mixing that's the last thing you want to do is to color the USB output from your PC.
Are using good XLR cables for the main outs?
Bob
Hi Bob and thanks for that last reply. I am using good cables for my sound system .I bought them from sweetwater. I think the 1/8 connection sounded better then the USB becuase those on line BIAB demos are set at flat response and they are compressed files .So when i run it through the 1/8 plug to 1/4 im able to get more gain through the pre amp channel 7/8 becuase i have the low .mid ,and high adjustments And im able to doctor up those flat response demos . I understand now that i need to go all the fixing in BIAB first then out from USB connection It all makes sence now . Do i need to buy and audio interface or is my mixer with the USB connection the audio interface ? Thanks for your support
Mackie PRO FX8
Regards, Greg
Bob Disregard my question about my mixer being an audio interface i just read your answer to that . lol
Regards,
Greg
Hi Bob again,
I went a head and hooked the USB up to my mixer .Boy what a sound ! I went into my computer and looked at my main volume level and it was only up 1/4 of the way .I got plenty of juice now. lol . I got so much power it's unreal. The sound is cleaner and smoother and that's is even with a demo .I can't imagine what these real styles will sound like once i take them into the mixing area of the program. I have my mic pluged into channel one on my mixer and for some reason i do not get the feed back coming through my mic anymore like i use to .Is there a reason for that ? Another thing that helped i took the longest wall in the room and stretched my speakers out more. Why does USB sound better then anolog ? Anyways i can breath a little easer now i think im heading in the right direction. The more im listening to these real styles now I'm starting to think BIAB sound's more life like compared to the arranger keyboards out there. Man when i hear that sax it's out of this world . lol Here i had an audio interface on my mixer and was not even using it. lol As faras my main out puts to my amp im using the main outs on the front panel of my mixer L/R they are 1/4 jacks going into 3 prong plug on the other end which goes into my power amp but it also gives me a choice i could also select the 1/4 inch jacks in .Does it matter if i have 1/4 jack coming out of my main mixer and then going in with the 3 prong plug on the other end ? I could have just used 1/4 to 1/4 from mixer to amp but as if now it's 1/4 to the 3 prong plug.
Regards,
Greg
Hi Bob i was looking at my mixer again for hooking the mixer up to the power amp .I see there are XLR OUT PUTS on the back of my Mackie .I did not hook it up from the back but rather i hooked the main out from the top Bal/ unbal main out .So one end is 1/4 inch and the other end going to my power amp is XLR. Should i hook my mains from the back of the mixer and to my amp with XLR Only ? I wounder if that would make a difference in sound ? My power amp gives me an option either i can connect with 1/4 or XLR Inputs same does for the mixer. It apears the manule is saying the out mains are in the back of the mixer but do not talk about the main outs on top as far as a i can see .Which way would you hook it up ? Mackie pro FX8
Regards,
Greg
Quote:
I went into my computer and looked at my main volume level and it was only up 1/4 of the way .I got plenty of juice now.
Quote:
As faras my main out puts to my amp im using the main outs on the front panel of my mixer L/R they are 1/4 Does it matter if i have 1/4 jack coming out of my main mixer and then going in with the 3 prong plug on the other end ? I could have just used 1/4 to 1/4 from mixer to amp but as if now it's 1/4 to the 3 prong plug.
A quick comment here, Greg. Mac told you several days ago to make sure the main volume level was up full in your computer. That alone would have made a big difference even with the 1/8" mini plug going to your PA. When you have questions you need to read the answers carefully. Still, you're much better off using your Mackie anyway and now you've got it set up properly so that's great.
As to your second question no, it doesn't matter as far as sound quality is concerned, the 1/4" jacks on the front panel say "Main Out" so it should be the same as using the XLR Main Out on the back. It's cleaner and less messy looking to have the mains coming out the back and if you want to get technical about it balanced XLR's are what the pro's use over 1/4" jacks because of less chance of interference and noise. Mackie makes pro level mixers, that's why the mains on the back are XLR's and it's the same on my Behringer mixer too. If you're not hearing any noise then you're fine with the 1/4".
You're on your way now Greg and as Peter says, have some fun!
Bob
Thanks Bob for all your help .About the volume i will double check to make sure my volume is all the way up on my computer .Even when it was lower i still had plenty of volume so i guss that is showing me that the usb connection is pumping a better signal from my computer compared to the 1/8 jack hook up . So it's volume all the way up on the computer and lower the volume on the mixer i got it. I talked with Mackie tec support today .He said both out put connections are ok either 1/4 or XLR connection but he said like you said the XLR gives a less chance of interference with Noise .As of now i have a 1/4 inch jacks going from my mixer to the input of my power amp by way of XLR connection. I orderd a pair of Pro co XLR cables today from sweetwater .I like the idea of the jacks being the same set up on both sides male to female connection XLR and like you said it looks less messy becuase the jacks are on the back. Again thank you and the forum for leading me in the right direction .
Regards,
Greg
Quote:
Why does USB sound better then anolog ?
For one thing the conversion from a digital signal to an audio signal is now being done by the Mackie, which was designed for the job. Which do you think was built with better digital-audio convertors; Mackie mixer or laptop? I betting the Mackie <grin>
Use the best convertors you have on hand for the best sound. That goes both ways. Your recorded tracks (like vocals) will probably sound better letting the Mackie do the conversion compared to the onboard laptop device.
http://www.box.net/shared/bhmsa71ae7d856slbrqx http://www.box.net/shared/9d3pho8foc Bob here is a song file that a fellow sent me On the interent a while back which is from BIAB and im singing with it. I added my voice in Audacity and then recorded. The second link was an arragment that i created when i use to own the Yamaha psrs 900 arranger keyboard .The guitar part i did with the Pitch bend wheel while playing the keys. Although it sounded half decent i gave up trying to learn how to play the keys ,it destracted me from my singing skills so that is why i will be going with BIAB in the future but any way i thought i would share these two arrangment with you .Again thanks for taken the time in helping me get started with recording . Take care my friend .
Regards,
Greg
Great vocal on San Francisco Greg.
Thank you Bert glad you enjoyed it .
Regards,
Greg