I give up on trying to figure this out by myself. Could you please help me to, once and for all, get my Midi/Audio drivers setup correctly?
I'm running BB ver.10.5 on Vista Home Premium 32-bit. and have a Tascam US-122L Audio/Midi interface, and I'm using my Yamaha keyboard for midi input, and it's connected to Midi In on the Tascam interface. All my hardware, software, and drivers work fine in other programs, but I just can't seem to get BB set up right, or at least I'm not positive that it's set up right. I can play any type of BB song just fine. I just can't get my keyboard input to work right. I do have input because the keys I hit show on the on screen keyboard, and, I can use the Midi Chord detector to detect what chord is played on the keyboard.
I have Roland VSC-DXi, Coyote Forte DXi, CoyoteWT and various VST plugins installed, plus VSTi's for piano.
I would like to play BB songs, or to create my own songs by manually inputting chords, and then play along with those songs on my keyboard. However, [I do not want to use the internal sounds in the keyboard], I want to use the VSTi softsynth for my keyboard(TruePianos.dll), and another synth for the BB songs(CoyoteForte DXi, CoyoteWT, or VSC-DXi, whichever is better), at least that's the way I think it would have to work.
One specific question is, Why doesn't VSC-DXi, or Forte DXi show up in the Midi Output Driver window, or are they supposed to, and is that what I would use there? I see it there in some screenshots. I have been selecting the Tascam driver for input and output device, but I do have "Use VST/DXi synths" checked and I think that means I don't really need a Midi Output driver anyway, and I do want to use the VST-DXi synths. The only thing available to select for Midi Input is the Tascam, that's OK. The only things selectable for Midi Output are; No Midi Sound Out, MS Midi Mapper, MS GS Wavetable Synth, and the Tascam US-122L. I never have been able to determine what I should select in the Synthesizer/Soundcard window, but Coyote Forte DXi, CoyoteWT DXi, and Roland VSC-DXi are available for selection. What should be selected there? I have selected GM2 and ASIO Always On.
Could you please help me here?
Keith
For playing and listening through your keyboard:
Midi input should be your Yamaha Midi driver for in/out if you are using the keyboards sounds to play the midi parts in Biab with. Opt/midi driver in Biab. The Yamaha midi driver should be listed if it was installed correctly.
Look down at the audio button in there (midi driver set up) and select the Tascam. You will have to route the audio out of your keyboard (line outs) to two inputs on the Tascam. You will be listening to the playback from the Tascam soundcard.
For playing through keyboard but listening to VSC etc:
You will need an ASIO driver to play and listen in realtime in Biab. You will set your AUDIO driver to the ASIO once installed. Then select VSC DXi in the midi driver in/output, there is a box to check mark. Once selected, select the VSC/Forte in the first slot of the menu that pops up. Make sure your midi cables are connected properly and you will listen to the playback from the Tascam.
You would be better off by using your keyboards midi driver to play and record in Biab with, but you can also use an ASIO driver as well. If you like the VSC/Forte sounds better, and not playing a live gig, record the midi data with the Yamaha driver first. Then select the VSC DXi driver for playback and rendering to audio, if those are the sounds you like better. Using the keyboards midi driver will record in time and should give zero latency.
The DXi set up in Biab is a check mark box in the midi driver area. That switches from onboard midi to use the DXi midi. You will see a menu pop up when the check mark box is selected. You then need to set the first box option there to either the VSC or Forte to hear anything playback while the song in Biab is playing.
It sounds complicated, but once you see where and how Biab gets set up for midi parts, you should be able to route your set ups correctly.
Trax
I have edited my post to try to make it more clear.
I do not want to use the internal sounds in my keyboard.
Keith
With v10.5, you can only run one vsti at a time. If you assign the vsc for example, you'd need to route the midi channel from your keyboard to it and use it's sounds on that channel, along with biab on other channels.
I suggest setting up biab with mme and one of your vsti's, and running truepianos stand a lone for your keyboard.
Quote:
One specific question is, Why doesn't VSC-DXi, or Forte DXi show up in the Midi Output Driver window, or are they supposed to, and is that what I would use there?
The MIDI Output Driver Window is only for "non-DXi (or VSTi)" MIDI solutions. This could be a physical hardware MIDI Output driver (if wishing to use external hardware MIDI synth) or it could be one of the "earlier" developed software MIDI synths of the type which would be included in that list, if installed.
Quote:
I see it there in some screenshots. I have been selecting the Tascam driver for input and output device, but I do have "Use VST/DXi synths" checked and I think that means I don't really need a Midi Output driver anyway, and I do want to use the VST-DXi synths.
In this scenario you should also highlight (select) the Microsoft MIDI Synth in the window. But if you want to be able to play the keyboard and hear the DXi synth, such as the VSC/DXi, do not check the "Route MIDI Thru to MIDI Driver" right below. Checking that will bypass use of DXi synth for only the Thru channel in BB, which is the channel your external keyboard will be on.
Quote:
The only thing available to select for Midi Input is the Tascam, that's OK. The only things selectable for Midi Output are; No Midi Sound Out, MS Midi Mapper, MS GS Wavetable Synth, and the Tascam US-122L. I never have been able to determine what I should select in the Synthesizer/Soundcard window, but Coyote Forte DXi, CoyoteWT DXi, and Roland VSC-DXi are available for selection. What should be selected there?
MS GS Wavetable Synth would be best in this case. NEVER select the doggone "MS MIDI Mapper" which "lets Windoze decide what is best" - just ignore that one and be happy.
Quote:
I have selected GM2 and ASIO Always On.
Those are both correct settings.
Be advised that there may be one more issue - when first opening BiaB, if you haven't hit "PLAY" at least once, you may not be able to hear your controller keyboard play in realtime yet. Just hit Play, let a song start and then hit Stop. That is usually enough to get the softsynth's "attention" and then you can play and hear the notes.
Could you please help me here?
--Mac
Disregard the info about using the Yamaha Midi driver unless you are connecting via usb which you are not.You should be using whatever Tascam drivers are ther which most certainly should include an ASIO Tascam driver of some sort. I suspect that your problem is that your Yamaha is not transmiting on the right channel. Lookd at the channels in pref and set your yamaha up to transmit on that channel. Example: Melody is channel 4 I believe so transmit on channel 4. Not knowing which Yamaha keyboard you are using also makes a difference. My Korg workstations have settings for internal and external transmision and I have also found that setting them up in sequence mode is the ticket.
I really want to thank everyone who has replied here.
I am trying to digest all that has been said here plus all the reading that I did last night. I bought BIAB about two years ago and gave up on it after a month. I'm trying again but it's driving me crazy again. Back when I first got it, I read the manual and all the tutorials, and I've been doing that again for the last couple of weeks. I've read and re-read it. I just printed out; Midi In A Nutshell, Midi Basics, the General Midi Instrument List, the BIAB Channel List, and the tutorial on Audio/Midi Driver Setup, No Sound. I have sound, it's just not the sounds that I'm expecting for the settings I have applied. Plus, I'm having trouble getting my keyboard to play through the synths correctly. I can get it to work after working on it for a while, but the volume is so low I can't play along with a BIAB song that is playing.
Problem is, every time I think I'm starting to understand it, then try something, it doesn't do what I'm expecting, so apparently I still don't understand it. For instance, I just loaded a BIAB song, started it playing, then looked at the synth Control Panel and the various instruments were not on the channels in BIAB's Channel List.
BIAB sometimes turns Local Control Off on my keyboard, a Yamaha CP33, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it works when Local Control is On, and sometimes it won't. Sometimes things seem to be working, then the next time I turn it on, nothing works and I have to spend hours sorting it all out again. It's not consistent.
I've been working on this night and day for a couple of weeks now, and I'm really not any further along than when I started.
I have another VSTi host app. that works just fine with my keyboard, and I use Audacity for audio recording. Works just fine. Even RealBand seems to work correctly, though I haven't spent much time with it yet. I'm trying to get BIAB to work first.
I'm pulling my hair out.
I don't use the Tascam interface so I can only be generic but this may point you in the right direction. If your synth volume is to low then there is probably a gain function of some sort in the Tascam ASIO control panel. That is part of the Tascam software. The turn local on or off is in the preferences file. Some synths need local on when using external sequencing. Some don't so that is specific to your synth. Leave local on and if you hear a flanging effect then you need it off. Otherwise leave it on. I don't quite know what you mean by the synth control panel. I took a quick look at the CP33 online and I don't see a control panel. I would suggest downloading Midi Ox and use that to monitor exactly what channel is transmitting.
The synth Control Panel I was refering to is the Control Panel you get when you click on the DXi Synth button in BIAB. In this case, I had Coyote Forte DXi selected as the default. I used the Midi Monitor button today to see what was coming in on midi. I like it pretty good.
I did some testing today and found out that, as far as using the keyboard input to BIAB, it doesn't matter if Local Control is On or Off. It works either way. I'm guessing that's because it's midi input into a soft synth. It does matter if I'm using the keyboard's internal sounds and the Line Outs to feed my mixer. I just couldn't figure out how/why BIAB was turning it On and Off because I had it set in preferences not to do that. It was anyway. I tried looking in my Yamaha manual to see if I could turn the volume up in midi and I tried but it had no effect. I did change the setting. Default was 100 and I changed it to 127. Couldn't hear any difference in BIAB.
Basically, I think everything is working correctly now, except that the volume level on the "thru instrument" is not loud enough to play with a BIAB song that is playing. I have the "thru" volume on 127. Guess I could turn the volume down on all the rest of the instruments, but I don't know if I'd have enough overall output level then. Probably would work, but I haven't tried it yet. I'm going to start working mostly in RealBand anyway, and that works good on my machine. I want to work in RealBand because I can use a different synth on each track. That way I can use TruePianos on the keyboard track and something else on all the rest. I've been having fun, today, just playing, using Cantabile and my new TruePianos software. Today is the most I've played using it and I'm really liking it.
What's worrying me is that last night nothing was working correctly in BIAB. I turned it on this morning and it only took a little fiddling to get it all right. I wonder if it's going to stay that way or blow up again.
Thanks for your input.
Keith
Quote:
Basically, I think everything is working correctly now, except that the volume level on the "thru instrument" is not loud enough to play with a BIAB song that is playing. I have the "thru" volume on 127.
It does sound like you have it set up correctly. The volume issue may be caused by a couple of things. Check the following in order and see if it helps.
1) Go to 'Opt|midi audio driver setup'. Check that the box labeled 'route midi thru to midi driver' is NOT checked. This is really important here because if it IS checked the midi from your keys is going to a different synth which would explain the volume issue.
2) If that doesn't work, go to 'Opt|midi audio driver setup' again. Click the 'VST/DXi settings' button to get to the control panel for your synth. Carefully check for any volume sliders that aren't at the highest setting. Set them all to full volume anyway as that eliminates problems later.
3) If none of that works try a different patch. Some patches seem quieter than others.
If none of this helps then report back. That will help others diagnose the problem.
'route midi thru to midi driver' is NOT checked.
All volume sliders in the synth Control panel are at 127. And the volume in the Instruments Panel in BIAB is at 127. And the Windows mixer volumes are all maxed. And, I have changed the value for volume out in my keyboard to 127, from the default of 100.
The thru instrument volume is too low no matter which synth I choose, Forte DXi or VSC-DXi, and it doesn't matter which instrument I select. They're all low.
And, as per my last post wondering, I got an Access Violation when I closed BIAB. It reads; Access Violation at address 0608E71F. Write of address 560EF25E at: 0608E71F.
Keith
Quote:
'route midi thru to midi driver' is NOT checked.
All volume sliders in the synth Control panel are at 127. And the volume in the Instruments Panel in BIAB is at 127. And the Windows mixer volumes are all maxed. And, I have changed the value for volume out in my keyboard to 127, from the default of 100.
Ok, that's good info. At least we know what it ISN'T.
Quote:
And, as per my last post wondering, I got an Access Violation when I closed BIAB. It reads; Access Violation at address 0608E71F. Write of address 560EF25E at: 0608E71F.
Keith
Ok, something seems to be wrong with the install and possibly that's affecting the volume of the THRU track.
Have you tried a 'Return to Factory Settings' yet? That's been known to clear up strange issues before. With 2010.5 I think you had the options to 'Return ALL to Factory Settings'. This is what I would choose although you will lose your user selected settings.
Alternatively, you could re-install BiaB. If you choose this option empty the c:\bb folder completely before re-installing. BiaB respects your existing setting so not emptying the folder may keep the offending config files. Make sure you back up any user created song or style files if you choose this option.
Hello,
You may be a candidate to look at the Opt -> Preferences -> Midi Options -> Boost Thru Velocity by... area.
Let us know how it goes.
Rob.
I have tried the "Boost Thru Velosity" thing. I got as high as 50. It does boost the volume but sound quality suffers (piano sound).
I haven't done a Return To Factory Settings. I'm running BIAB from the external hard drive and I just upgraded it to 10.5 two weeks ago when I started on this project again. This is the first time I've ever had BIAB lock up my computer or get an Access Violation.
I don't have any user created song or style files because I've never gotten past just the "setup" part. I get discouraged working on the computer so much "cause it takes away from my piano practice time.
Keith
I'm not familiar with the 33, sorry. I used a Yamaha Tyros and when I needed to use a VSTi, I would record the part using the Yamaha Midi Driver in Biab and then switch to the VSTi check box for the playback sound. I got tired of fighting the latency issue in real time, so switching back drivers worked for me here.
Some keyboards have "modes" that they use and send midi set up data etc. Does yours have a "performance" type of set up mode for working with midi sequencers?
Trax
The CP33 is, in my opinion, a pretty basic, mid-range stage piano. It doesn't have any bells and whistles, just what you'd need for gigging. (These are my opinions, not Yamaha's marketing.) I've had it for three years, since I started learning to play the piano. I like it OK for what it was designed for. My biggest problem with it is I wanted better piano sound. That's why I've just gone into software pianos. Actually, I was thinking about buying a new, better DP, but I haven't been able to find one that I would plunk down the money for. And, I've discovered that I don't even need a new one now that I have software pianos.
I know very little about midi, and I'm really not sure what kind of modes you're talking about. The CP33 has a Master Mode, where you can split the keyboard, and you can use an external sound generator, rather than the internal one, or you can use dual instruments. I actually use mine in Master Mode because I split the keyboard so I can control the volumes of the two halfs. (To me, everything above middle C is not loud enough, compared to the lower half.) I've noticed at the bottom of the Midi Implementation Chart that it shows four Modes there, but nowhere in the user manual do they say anything about them.
I'm probably going to give up on BIAB here pretty soon, because I can do what I want to do in RealBand. At least I think I can. All I really want to do is create something in standard blues progressions with bass and drums, that I can use to practice playing along with on the piano. Nothing very complicated. At least for now. The real hangup in BIAB has been getting the "thru instrument", in this case my keyboard, to work properly. I wanted to be able to use my piano VSTi too, but you can't do that in BIAB 10.5. You can do that in RealBand, though. I've already spent two weeks on this BIAB problem. And I'm not knocking BIAB, it's mostly my lack of knowledge that's been the problem. Well,,,, I'm trying to learn more anyway.
Keith