Good Saturday BIAB friends!
**This topic may be covered extensiviely, would be happy to get some links** Thanks!)
Recently got the EVERYTHING PAK HD (Windows 2012.5) and when loading some real track tune (Jazz or Country) I notice piano riffs, comping and guitar rhythm tracks are slightly out tune to my own instruments. Any remedy to this? It is very discouraging.
My instruments are high quality, well intonated and I play in tune. I have a long history as a producer and professional musician (for reference). These real tracks are definitely slightly OUT of 440. I would not tolerate this type of mis tuning for a recording or a live performance.
Most Bass tracks seem great.
Any help or guidances, tricks, work arounds etc. would be appreciated. Can post clips if need be but I assume others have run into this.
Many thanks!! THR
Hi THR,
Welcome to the forums.
Sounds like your sound card is set to 48 kHz and the "Let application take control" option is not activated.
Realtracks are 44.1 kHz and, because of this, BIAB needs to control the soundcard. When the option I've highlighted is functioning, everything should work ok (it does for me at least).
Regards,
Noel
Thanks Noel. I appreciate the reply.
For reference and with respect to your intent, I have a long history and much experience in music production. This is not something as extreme as 48khz vs. 44.1khz . Some instruments (not all) are literally .01% out of tune and it is discouraging, as if they were recorded slightly out (imagine a guitar note slightly sharp on the tuner, enough so you desire to flatten it) . Also, my sound card is a high-end interface that is accurate with a very stable digital clock.
These tracks are in tune at 44.144 khz. I suspect perhaps the speed/slow function of BIAB has slightly changed the tuning? Sounds that way. Doesn't happen in Nuendo or Cubase. Perhaps I should have bought the Audiofile edition to get the original tracks untouched? We see what I can do. Thanks again.
More info:
If I go around a cycle of 4ths...I am in PERFECT tune with the bass and piano for SOME of the keys, however Ab, Eb, F#, B, E, A and D I am OUT... and this is true if I use a digital piano as reference also or any other guitar. This is definitely a .wav file tuning issue.
Anybody else experience this?
Thanks!~
If I DRAG and DROP the original audio files into Cubase and create the same tracks/song with those real band files, they play perfectly in tune in every key. BIAB interface/program has some slight tuning challenges with certain instruments in certain keys at certain speeds. At least the version I just got. Doesn't matter if I play it from the supplied BIAB drive or my computer.
The files played in Cubase are alive, they breathe, they sound like I would expect session players and quality recording to sound.
Thank you.
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The files played in Cubase are alive, they breathe, they sound like I would expect session players and quality recording to sound.
Thank you.
Yes, exactly has we would expect. 
Not sure exactly what problem you were/are having but glad you found a workflow to get things moving fowared. Perhaps someone else can confirm your problem. I don't generally circle thorough differnt keys, and many of us do move over into DAWs with the RTs as soon as we rough them out in BIAB. Also I am afraid my ear may not well tuned. 
Hi TexasHeartRush,
Something is amiss somewhere in your setup from what you report.
I am a stickler for intonation and can hear one cent difference easily. Not to brag, but just to let you know that this is not normal operation for Band in a Box at all. If it was, I wouldn't have stuck with the program all these years. <g>
So let's get to troubleshooting this report in an effort to solve your problem:
**I realize that you've already stated that these are all Realtracks that do this, but I need first to know for certain if these intonation problems are found strictly on RealTracks files (the tracknames would be Green for Realtracks) or if there are any MIDI tracks involved (MIDI tracknames are indicated in Yellow).**
If they are MIDI tracks that are out of tune, there is a method of handling that, depending upon what is in use for the MIDI synthesizer. This would be the situation I first suspect here.
If these are indeed all Realtracks that are going desafinado, I've never heard that happen here - yet - and am inclined to think that since the files import into another software and play just fine, BiaB may need to be reset to factory settings in order to have it rewrite a critical internal file that can sometimes become corrupted in the event of a crash, freeze or otherwise ungraceful exit of the program.
**In BiaB, under the Options menu, try selecting the SECOND "Return to Factory Settings" choice, because that one will also re-invpoke the Soundcard and MIDI Wizard, resetting parameters inside that volatile file.**
**Forgive if you've already stated this, but what VERSION of Band in a Box are you using? (use the Help->About to view the report) also please include the Update number reported there.**
**Visiting the BB Support pages and downloading/installing the last posted patch update for your version *may* also solve this problem. There is a link directly to the BB Support pages at the bottom of my posts in the dotsig.**
Again, intonation problems are NOT normal behavior/behaviour for Band in a Box Realtracks at all. This is to include the standard realtracks version as well as the "audiophile" version. The only difference I can hear if using the Audiophile Realtracks is a slightly heightened top of the frequency response curve, so slight that I'd bet the rent that a double blindfold would be quite revealing, if you know what I mean <g>.
Try those suggestions and let us know how it goes, amigo.
--Mac
Thanks JazzManDan and Mac! I appreciate the dialog and support.
Version: 2012.5 - Everything Pak HD
My System: Windows 7 Professional (64 bit) -Intel i7- 920 @ 2.67 Ghz- 16G ram (corsair).
My Interface: RME FireFace 800 using the internal clock.
Issue: SOME of the keys are out of intonation with string/piano instruments when playing)...and ONLY with real tracks. MIDI output is perfect.
Some country tunes the guitar/dobro/acoustic is out (tuned to about 44.144) but the bass seems OK.
When I cycle 4ths the first 4 keys are perfect...then it goes out slightly. But the SOUND QUALITY is great, just off intonation (challenge to the ear LOL).
And... when the same song is DRAGGED and DROPPED to Cubase 6.5, all is perfect.
MAc, I am willing to reset to factory settings. Question will I lose my saved .SGUs?
Some suggestions:
- reset to factory as has been suggested
- change tempo to 140 or higher. You are stretching the tempo lower (140-130), which can introduce artifacts (Elastique stretching engine)
- try enabling Prefs-RealTracks-High Quality Pitch Shift
- (since you report that the rendered files sound fine) right click on combo, and choose "Render Song to Audio Track" - then you will hear a rendered version, which may have less artifacts.
- (since you report that the rendered files sound fine) Use RealBand, which renders the tracks first. RealBand will open your BB songs, you just run RealBand, choose File-Open and then press the BB button to generate the song.
THR, no, you would not lose your .SGU songs.
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Some suggestions:
- (since you report that the rendered files sound fine) right click on combo, and choose "Render Song to Audio Track" - then you will hear a rendered version, which may have less artifacts.
- (since you report that the rendered files sound fine) Use RealBand, which renders the tracks first. RealBand will open your BB songs, you just run RealBand, choose File-Open and then press the BB button to generate the song.
I reset to factory settings. Seems about the same. When I open Real Band I have some issues unfortunately.
Real Band just crashes on me each time I open it (runs my CPU through the roof). I get multiple error messages constantly, audio gets fizzly and warbly. It is telling me it is not a valid install...etc. etc. Let em get a few screen shots.
If it crashes when you open it, how do you get far enough to know that the "audio gets fizzly and warbly"?
If using ASIO, I'd recommend switching to MME driver.
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If it crashes when you open it, how do you get far enough to know that the "audio gets fizzly and warbly"?
If using ASIO, I'd recommend switching to MME driver.
With respect, I did not say it crashes UPON opening it, I said it crashes each time I open it (although it HAS crashed upon opening also). I have a great deal of experience with computer/audio programs Peter and RealBand is simply not functioning properly. That's why I am posting this. Your advice to use it prompted this post.
Also, there are no REAL TRACKs that play when I open standard BB songs. Only Midi tracks show up and REAL drums. Perhaps I misunderstood your post or the function of RealBand? Do I need to assign real tracks to bb songs in BIAB first?
Here are SOME of the screen shots (and CPU shot) I have gotten EACH time I open RealBand.
My system is fast and stable, my RME FireFace is also stable (ASIO is stable in all other audio applications as well)
Thank you,
First recommendation would be to install the fonts. There is an installer on the disk.
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First recommendation would be to install the fonts. There is an installer on the disk.
Peter, can you direct me to WHERE the font installers are on the disk (or send me to link). I can find installers in the folder PGMusic and it is Setup.Exe for RealBand and BIAB. Nothing in the RealBand folder.
Edit: Here is shot of EXACTLY what shows on the HD disk I received.
Run any of the installers. There is ReadMe that describes them. You can either install
1. - just the fonts (minimal <1MB)
2. - Fonts + theProgram (no RealTracks, no RealDrums) (about 5GB)
3. - Everything (Fonts + theProgram + RealTracks + RealDrums) (about 60GB)
Options #3 is best, because you could put the USB drive away then. But you need to have 60GB free.
If you don't have 60GB free, chooise option #2. Then you run the programs from your hard drive (c:\bb\bbw.exe and c:\realband\realband.exe). If you do this, you need to point BB to your RealTracks Prefs-RealTracks and your RealDrums folder: Prefs-RealDrums. If your USB drive is e:\ then these folders would be e:\bb\realtracks and e:\bb\drums
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Run any of the installers. There is ReadMe that describes them. You can either install
1. - just the fonts (minimal <1MB)
2. - Fonts + theProgram (no RealTracks, no RealDrums) (about 5GB)
3. - Everything (Fonts + theProgram + RealTracks + RealDrums) (about 60GB)
Options #3 is best, because you could put the USB drive away then. But you need to have 60GB free.
If you don't have 60GB free, chooise option #2. Then you run the programs from your hard drive (c:\bb\bbw.exe and c:\realband\realband.exe). If you do this, you need to point BB to your RealTracks Prefs-RealTracks and your RealDrums folder: Prefs-RealDrums. If your USB drive is e:\ then these folders would be e:\bb\realtracks and e:\bb\drums
Thanks Peter. All this mentioned ^^^ had already been done last night. I re-installed just the fonts (using custom selection) and had same issues and troubles right now. I just uninstalled BIAB COMPLETELY and deleted all files. RE-installing fresh now. Will know more in about an hour.
EDIT: While reinstalling I ran into the same issue as last night. Files missing from my new BIAB 2012.5 HD. If I choose 'ignore' it will continue, but I will get these messages at least 10 times during the install process. Happened last night as well.
THR,
That's a most unusual message. After reading through this thread and a couple of questions came to mind.
1. What directory are you installing the program to? Is the default c:\bb? (On Win 7, problems will arise if the program is installed into Program Files as well as a couple of other Windows-protected locations.)
2. Is it possible that you have a couple of installations on your hard drive? This has happened in the past for some users and has created unusual problems.
Regards,
Noel
You should try the notation window in Band-in-a-Box to see if you've successfully installed the fonts. If you ran the installer, but don't have the fonts installed, then you'd be the only customer (out of thousands) that's been unable to install the fonts. In this case, it would likely be due to some anti-virus or firewall-type program blocking you from installing anything to the System folder. And of course reboot your system, since you've been reporting all kinds of problems (audio, disk copying, font installation etc.)
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THR,
That's a most unusual message. After reading through this thread and a couple of questions came to mind.
1. What directory are you installing the program to? Is the default c:\bb? (On Win 7, problems will arise if the program is installed into Program Files as well as a couple of other Windows-protected locations.)
2. Is it possible that you have a couple of installations on your hard drive? This has happened in the past for some users and has created unusual problems.
Regards,
Noel
It is installed in the default location. This is the recommenced location by BIAB. No other versions installed.
I have full admin functions in Win 7 and run as admin if I have to. I have gotten around/through any Win 7 'protected' or admin obstacles for all my audio programs. I think I had a corrupt install last night. The disc HD kept giving me error messages. I just kept re-trying until I got it installed.
Here is a screen shot of BIAB notation after re-install (with a randomly chosen song file).
Great. So the fonts are installed. If you are running ASIO, remember that it's one-program-at-a-time (so don't choose ASIO with BiaB if you've got Cubase running.
Anyway, best suggestion is to run Band-in-a-Box, and explore the various styles etc. Likely RealBand is having ASIO problems with your interface, or the fact that Cubase is/has been run also with ASIO. So forget about RealBand.
The installation is done, and it looks like you've got everything installed. As mentioned above, increase the tempo to 140 (from 130) on that demo if you want to avoid the artifacts that are sometimes created by tempo stretching to lower tempos.
Real Band is another issue. The lead sheet shows now. Still plays choppy and massive CPU usage. I cannot load / find any real tracks in place of midi tracks. If I press BB I get the real drums to render, but every other track plays with that cheesy midi GM generator and real tracks are not available to substitute.
So I might be the 1 in 1000's and 1000's with a genuine issue? I don't know but I would like to work this out. Since the Real Band recommendation I have done everything BUT play my instrument. Challenging to say the least.
Any input? Can you direct me to the manual pages that show how to convert/use audio tracks in lieu of midi tracks? Thank you
Tex,
There is a known situation where the internal hard drive inside the black usb case gets a little loose in its connections. This can sometimes happen in shipping, some have reported it in general use. The fix is rather simple:
Try opening the usb hard drive case and disconnecting and reseating the drive to the connector, then reassemble the end covers and see if it will read all those installation files, etc.
Depending on the type of hard drive case you were shipped, the end caps may come off with tiny phillips screws or it may be the type that uses little plastic pushins to release the covers.
HTH,
--Mac
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Great. So the fonts are installed. If you are running ASIO, remember that it's one-program-at-a-time (so don't choose ASIO with BiaB if you've got Cubase running.
Anyway, best suggestion is to run Band-in-a-Box, and explore the various styles etc. Likely RealBand is having ASIO problems with your interface, or the fact that Cubase is/has been run also with ASIO. So forget about RealBand.
The installation is done, and it looks like you've got everything installed. As mentioned above, increase the tempo to 140 (from 130) on that demo if you want to avoid the artifacts that are sometimes created by tempo stretching to lower tempos.
Thanks. You posted while I was typing. Forget about RealBand? Ha... honestly? I thought that was the answer to my issues? Besides, it should work. It comes with my purchase. For reference Cubase is not running however I can run multiple high intensity programs with ASIO simultaneously, have for years. Ill work this out on my own Peter. Thank you.
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Tex,
There is a known situation where the internal hard drive inside the black usb case gets a little loose in its connections. This can sometimes happen in shipping, some have reported it in general use. The fix is rather simple:
Try opening the usb hard drive case and disconnecting and reseating the drive to the connector, then reassemble the end covers and see if it will read all those installation files, etc.
Depending on the type of hard drive case you were shipped, the end caps may come off with tiny phillips screws or it may be the type that uses little plastic pushins to release the covers.
HTH,
--Mac
Cheers. Thanks Mac. I will look at that.
>>> Any input? Can you direct me to the manual pages that show how to convert/use audio tracks in lieu of midi tracks?
Sure. RealBand 2012.5 Manual.pdf, chapter 8: RealTracks And Audio
Normally you just press the Style Control (under the title on the main screen), and then select a style that has RealStyles and then press GENERATE button. If you aren't hearing RealTracks, you should make sure that the folders are being pointed to correctly (Prefs-Song Generation-Paths for BB Song Generation). But if they were wrong, you would be getting yellow messages telling you that.
Remember, if a style has a "_" to start the name, it is a RealStyle (no MIDI). If it doesn't, then it is a MIDI style. If it has an '=' sign to begin, it is mixed (Real/MIDI)
For additional RealBand questions, please post in the RealBand forum, as the users there may be able to provide additional tips.
This is frustrating. Now after the RE-install (where the notation fonts now show) Now in BIAB any Real Tracks songs I choose are missing instruments! I get a message (yellow) in the upper right corner telling me the file is missing. And yes Peter, with respect and thanks the file folders are pointing to the right folders in RealBand.
So...isn't is JUST POSSIBLE...a consideration at least that I have a bad disc? Can't this at least be a possibility? With respect to the 1000s of success, these are just average HDs and in all reality, they CAN be defective, go defective etc. I have been struggling with this all day and all last night.
Any input? A 3rd re-install?
MORE errors now. some show the active GREEN lit instrument indicating a Real Instrument, but they don't play or sound. The mixer is fine. This happens on ALL Real Tracks songs. Guitars are missing, pianos are missing even if the yellow box does not show up.
Here is a common shot:
See this?
Despite all of those green lit instruments... ONLY bass and drums play. Mixer is fine, nothing is muted. Plus I get the Yellow Box to the right telling me a pedal steel file is missing.
...bad disk ... >>> Can't this at least be a possibility?
Of course it is possible. It wouldn't explain your symptoms (because you say that RealTracks were working, and now cannot be found). That's more likely that you haven't pointed to the folders correctly.
Have you run a chkdsk on the drive? If it has errors, try Mac's suggestion, and if still has problems, contact PG Music for a replacement.
Why not try a single RealTracks
#362 Strumming Guitar.
Does that work?
This is what it needs to work
1. a folder called "Guitar, Acoustic Strumming 85" in your c:\bb\RealTracks folder.
2. files rACg.st2 and rAcG.xt2 in your c:\bb folder.
Visiting your RealTracks dialog will show you what RT are/aren't present.
Make sure that "show N/A RealTracks is selected in the bottom left of that dialog.
Anyway, I'd recommend contacting PG Tech support. Kent is there until 6pm PST (9pm EST) tonight.
Either phone, or press the "LIve Help" chat button at the top of this screen. You can then sort out the issue with the N/A RealTracks.
Here is a LIVE video .gif.
A bad disk or installer would certainly explain my situation. I simply used the installer on the disc Peter. Twice. Both times I have gotten serious errors. Even during the install it showed errors and missing files...I have it posted in this very thread for goodness sakes. This is silly now.
Files are missing AFTER a full install.... should I re-install again? Is it possible to get a fresh disc from the retailer I bought it from? Or from PG music? Or would you like to continue this troubleshooting?
I'll repeat myself...
"Anyway, I'd recommend contacting PG Tech support. Kent is there until 6pm PST (9pm EST) tonight. Either phone, or press the "Live Help" chat button at the top of this screen. You can then sort out the issue with the N/A RealTracks."
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I'll repeat myself...
"Anyway, I'd recommend contacting PG Tech support. Kent is there until 6pm PST (9pm EST) tonight. Either phone, or press the "Live Help" chat button at the top of this screen. You can then sort out the issue with the N/A RealTracks."
You don't have to repeat yourself...I would rather you listened and/ looked at my posts. They are very clear.
Call tech support?...more of my time for a very likely outcome? Ha.... sure Peter I'll contact Kent. At least he may determine what I already know and I can finally get some time with my wife and family today. Cheers.
Kent was helpful... we troubleshot in-depth. Corrupted disc. No question, no other possibility.
I have to wait until Monday for Rob to actually authorize the 'bad disc return' before I get a replacement. In the meantime, you can have this one back Pete. A bad drive does happen on occasion.
Cheers.
Per your statement "With respect, I did not say it crashes UPON opening it, I said it crashes each time I open it." does not elaborate on what attempted function or action initiated the crash. And when you state "crash", did you happen to browse error/event log in Windows? While it appears Kent will be sending you a replacement drive, other possibilities could be a bad USB cable, port, etc, which have been demonstrated to cause external hard drive errors/failures (I don't believe you mentioned any of those actions). With the various states you mentioned, such as having associated BBW files, then not on subsequent installs, I would suspect a hard drive or hard drive interface issue.
Running the ASIO driver with multiple apps certainly may work under various conditions on different platforms, but the ASIO specification does not guarantee it.
Problem reports with corresponding events events can be difficult to convey...however, several people did attempt to assist you.
Good Luck,
Just out of curiosity, did Kent suggest you disassemble the hard drive enclosure and make sure the connector to the drive is fully seated? This has been known to loosen during shipping.
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Per your statement "With respect, I did not say it crashes UPON opening it, I said it crashes each time I open it." does not elaborate on what attempted function or action initiated the crash. And when you state "crash", did you happen to browse error/event log in Windows? While it appears Kent will be sending you a replacement drive, other possibilities could be a bad USB cable, port, etc, which have been demonstrated to cause external hard drive errors/failures (I don't believe you mentioned any of those actions). With the various states you mentioned, such as having associated BBW files, then not on subsequent installs, I would suspect a hard drive or hard drive interface issue.
Running the ASIO driver with multiple apps certainly may work under various conditions on different platforms, but the ASIO specification does not guarantee it.
Problem reports with corresponding events events can be difficult to convey...however, several people did attempt to assist you.
Good Luck,
Rich... thanks for the input. This is not my (nor Kents) first Rodeo. Much more has been gone through / troubleshot than this thread which, in and of itself is extensive enough. I did not even originally post because of a defective disk although I did have 3 failed install attempts last night when I received the disc and errors throughout the install (some are posted on the thread during REINSTALL today).
It is clear the disc is corrupt based on our additional trouble shooting which I will not go into detail as it is extensive. Feel free to call Kent. Ill post some info here for other users.
Also...lets be very clear, I mentioned I was not running multiple apps... only BIAB with ASIO and with a very robust system that I know well and is known to be stable. This isn't a 'hard drive / interface' issue. I am a conscious and aware user of my system/equipment.
As for 'what' crashes Real Band it can be anything (see the CPU meter I posted) It could be after 30 seconds of play, it could be when trying to change styles, opening a new song etc. It runs my CPU up to 100%. 'Crash' may be misleading. It FREEZES and then Windows shuts the program off.
As for the files showing up and then not...that is incomplete. BIAB failed to install the first 3 times, each of those times with error messages (documented with Kent). The 4th time it did install but with many missing files as documented in this thread. I didn't know Real Band was corrupt without fonts and with crashes until Peter suggested I try it. I honestly did not even know it was a different program or exactly what it was. I bought BIAB as far as I knew. When the latest install happened, the fonts appeared but more files were missing.
BTW, error messages occur with a DIRECT copy and paste form the disc. This is only possible with a corrupt disc with missing files.
Even if I can get all of the missing files from PG or recovered from the disc, I have a defective disc / program installer and a corrupt drive that will not run BIAB on its own as intended (despite my intention to run it from my computer). I paid full price for a HD and I do want a fully functioning one. I have been at this (with a new unit) for nearly 20 hours...If you want to offer Kent or PG music your guidance on how they should further trouble shoot this, I am sure they welcome your input. As for now, I welcome a working unit and I am done with this.
Cheers
Nwvermind what I just posted here, I see you've been in contact with Kent.
PGMusic is good, I fully expect that they will sort this out for you one way or another.
--Mac
Just curious. Are you aware that Peter or Pete ,as you call him, IS PGMusic?My opinion is that you are just a cocky no it all. My opinion of course. I've seen a lot of them here.
I do hope it gets sorted out though.
If a copy and paste on the k:\bb folder from the USB to the C:\ drive fails, then it is definitely a hardware problem. That can be (1) under-powered USB (2) loose cable (3) defective hard drive. I'd be betting on #1 (because that's a common problem), but returning the drive is the easiest solution.
Point well taken John, I was wondering when someone was going to point out that Dr. Gannon is always more than helpful and one of the most actively involved CEO's that I know of.
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Just curious. Are you aware that Peter or Pete ,as you call him, IS PGMusic?My opinion is that you are just a cocky no it all. My opinion of course. I've seen a lot of them here.
I do hope it gets sorted out though.
Cocky? Wow. I left off the letter 'r' once somewhere?. I am both dyslexic and a clumsy typist (I have long nails for playing country music), and I need / USE spell check always and these posts take me a long time to put together. BTW...that would be 'know' it all if I wanted to be cocky. And cocky or not, I am also experienced enough to know how to communicate my problems with a competent tech support person and work diligently with screen shots and details to assist, which I did to the best of time availability. PG music determined I had a bad drive and so many people still doubt that?. Of course after nearly 20 hours of troubleshooting away from my family we can all get a bit frustrated at times anyway. Perhaps you can understand that.
And...Peter if this is an UNDER-POWERED USB issue, then this is the only one small drive out of multiple USB powered devices and drives that my stable computer cannot power (even with both USB cables plugged in). Does that really seem likely? It seems as if it will not be confirmed that I actually received a defective drive, but I know what I have experienced. PG Music will have the drive back soon enough and you will do what you will with it. No problem either way.
Also Peter, if this is indeed an under-powered issue... it will repeat with any drive I get.
Unfortunately PG music actually is not sending me a new drive. I was told it was not clear when he would be able to assist me. The store I bought it from is receiving this one back and sending me a fresh one today.
I look forward to using Real Band and hearing all of the Real Tracks in BIAB.
Cheers.
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If a copy and paste on the k:\bb folder from the USB to the C:\ drive fails, then it is definitely a hardware problem. That can be (1) under-powered USB (2) loose cable (3) defective hard drive. I'd be betting on #1 (because that's a common problem), but returning the drive is the easiest solution.
For clarity, it doesn't fail...it gets missing files error messages. I can skip them and continue until the next one and next one etc.. I have lost count on how many missing files error messages I get.