Is it possible for someone to create a mapping in SampleTank to the standard GM patch numbers, and share it with BIAB users ?

I purchased the software.
Have not pursued all of the voicing "yet".

Also have Forte.

I "hear" that most of Omnisynth 2 Gm voicing is very nice. Pun intended.

There are many "Extended" voices that come with the purchase.
Check out samples tab.

Don't feel the $10 was wasted.

Just went back and did bit of piano testing.
Forte Steinway and OmniSynth Grand.... Steinway probably bit better.
Forte Bright Piano and Omni Bright.... Gotta to to Omni

Electric Grand, Rhodes, EP 2 would all give to Omni.
No FX on any other than default setups.

'
I am just now experimenting with the esounds/omnisynth soundset. Sounds much better than Coyote, and certainly worth ten bucks.

Here is a post from another thread (see below) that explains that mapping is possible in Sample Tank.

>>>... Yesterday, I decided to pick up Omnisynth 2 for it, as part of the esounds deal. I've been playing around with it this morning, and I've discovered a couple of things that help when using it in BIAB. In fact, they help enough that I'll probably go ahead and sell my SD-2 module. Since I don't play out anymore, I've been thinking about doing that for a while now.

Anyways, here's the tips. (I'm assuming you have everything configured correctly except the drums keep changing, in BIAB). Hit ctrl and e, -> brings up preferences window. Click on 'midi options' button. Untic 'Drum Patch Changes' . You might check some of your other options while you are there. For example, I have 'midi thru' unticked as I don't use that. When you have all as you want it, close your windows.

This next step isn't necessary, but is a time saver once done. Locate your 'Omni GMBnk2 DRY.stmp' and 'OmniSynth GMBnk1.stmp' files in your 'GM Progr Chng Bnk' folder. Copy both those files and paste them into your BB main folder. (search may locate them faster than you if you don't already know where they are )

(This next step will need to be done every time you start BIAB)

Now, click on the dxi synth button in BIAB. in ST click on 'program ch' button. Click 'open map'. If the dialog button opens in one of the bb folders just hit up until you are in the BB folder, To start, let's choose 'Omni GMBnk2 DRY.stmp', and get it loaded. Now load 'SRGM KIT O1 DRY' in channel 10 of ST. And thats it. You should be good to go.

Just a few things to remember: 1: You'll need to load that .stmp ever time you fire up biab. 2: Change all instruments except drums from the normal place in biab. 3: Change all drum kits via 'dxi synth' button (you can hit that even if biab is playing), and always use GM mapped kits...>>>>>

Here is the whole thread:

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.p...amp;Search=true

.
What the previous post does not tell you is to make Sample Tank the default MIDI device. Seems to work very nicely, and the GM map seems to be sticky.

Make the change in: OPTIONS>>PREFS>>MIDI DRIVER

Does that make OmniSynth 2 the best sounding GM module overall - i.e. if you were on a desert island and had to pick one ?

Thanks for all this info about sampletank. I don't have biab 2013 I have biab ultra pak 2012.

If I install sampletank free and buy the $10 expansion pack, do the adjustments in the second last post above, them I can set sampletank as the default dxi and it will play as a general midi dxi fine without further adjustment, that I won't need to pick an instrument for each biab track, though it may be possible to do that too?

Just want a fairly simple set up.

I take it realdrums will play along with it as well, without any tweaking?

Thanks for all the work and any further info.

Musiclover

.
>>>...If I install sampletank free and buy the $10 expansion pack, do the adjustments in the second last post above, them I can set sampletank as the default dxi and it will play as a general midi dxi fine without further adjustment, that I won't need to pick an instrument for each biab track, though it may be possible to do that too?...>>>

Don't know yet in detail. I have only had the Omnisynth for a clouple hours and I got holiday stuff going on...

In General the Omnisynth sounds great. Better than Coyote definitely, but I have not been aboe to get it to default in a fully automatic way. Its looking like the GM map has to be loaded every time, and just now I am getting crashes. Also the balance is not right in default mode; Piano is too soft and strings are too loud.

So I will most likely keep Coyote as default for when I need MIDIs and BiaB files to come up quickly and reliably, and use Omnisynth on those songs when I am more willing to take the time to tweak.

.
MAPPING IS NOT WORKING

I can select the voices from the Omnisynth set individually. But I get a crash when I call the GM MAP posted above and then press GEN PLAY.

The error has to do with "Sampletank2.x.vpa." Anybody else getting this?

I think this will be OK. The Omnisynth voices volumes are not balanced by default, so it looks like I will be tweaking them individually anyway.

Hi Flatfoot,

It works fine for me. Are you using the "Default Synth" slot at the bottom of the VSTi dialogue box? I suspect if SampleTank was installed on individual tracks, the problem you describe might exist.

Regards,
Noel

Yup I tried it this way. Sampletank works fine as long as I dont load the Omnisynth GM Script. It seems to be the script that crashes it.

Interesting. Everything works fine for me. What is your operating system?

Since the script has to be loaded each time perhaps PG would build in some kind of option for a batch file load with BIAB. Because the files are spread out it would be useful to be able store all the file locations for simple access.

I downloaded OmniSynth for $10 and was pleased. They also have great sounding Latin percussion samples and loops that are very tempting for the same price.

Hi maiki,

SampleTank is not a GM synth. Its functionality is far superior and it's not restricted to the GM bank of sounds. The loading of the general midi mapping that's mentioned above, takes me about 30 secs (probably less) and I do not find it a hassle.

However, if it were a problem, I'd use the Roland VSC softsynth for my song creation and then use SampleTank at a later stage when I'm looking for higher quality sounds for finishing a song.

For example, below is an image of some of the pianos that came with the "Piano Collection 2" sounds I recently purchased. (Given that there are so many choices, GM just doesn't do the job.)

When a BIAB song is saved, the sounds loaded into SampleTank on the different midi channels are also saved.

Regards,
Noel

Crap, I need more midi sounds like I need a hole in the head. When do you have too many? Answer: When you no longer know how many you have! Thats where I am at. When it comes to BIAB Coyote Forte is completely satifactory. The sounds have always been the best available and it works seamlessly in BIAB - no adjustments needed.

So now this comes along. And for days I stare at it. And I see all the problems folks are having (it needs to be configured each time?). But even still I am drawn like a mouth to the flame. What is it about these things? I know it will only cause me distress but wait, you say it sounds good? better than Coyote Forte? and it only costs $10? and the sale is over tomorrow? Here I go again. But tell me one more bit of info to push me over the edge.

Will I be able to run it on my laptop and desktop? or will the registration and security prevent this? Becareful how you answer, as my fate is in your hands.

Dan

Hi Dan,

If you have 2013 installed with SampleTank, all that you need to do is to unzip the file you download and copy the folder that contains the instruments to ...

C:\Program Files\IK Multimedia\Instruments

... no additional registration is necessary.

Next time you start up BIAB and load in SampleTank, all the sounds will then be there. For what it's worth, I've noticed that BIAB now takes about 30 secs to load up rather than 15 secs, but that might be a disk fragmenting thing that I haven't yet checked out. Equally, it could be that there's more information to read in now because of what I've added to SampleTank. At the end of the day, though, 30 seconds is not a big deal for me.

Each of the sale packages are around 1 GB big (some slightly more, some slightly less). In the end, I purchased the following packages. (Since each package is normally $49, I got 5 for the price of 1!)

Hope this helps! Happy New Year

Noel

Thank you Noel - That will do it for me.

I don't know the details yet but the reason Biab is taking longer to load is ST has to load all the sounds at the same time. I read something about this on the IKM forum and they talked about a way to only have ST see whatever library you want it to use. If it's Omnisynth then you only set up that one and all the others are not seen at start up. In my case I have tons of ST stuff including the Sonic Synth that has over 4000 patches. Right now everything is being seen so it takes maybe a minute for the plugin window to open.

This is the price if we're going to use a full sample based synth like ST instead of a much smaller sampleset in something like Forte. Better sound requires bigger samples unless you're using a modelling synth but that's a whole different story.

Dan you're comment about PG should only include a synth that is fully compatible with Biab sounds nice but there's absolutely nothing available that's free or close to it. Note they have to charge $40 for the Forte and they have others available too at a cost. Sampletank itself is free and PG did a very clever thing in creating the Hi-Q sounds to go with it. They are free with the new 2013 version. If you're just using those sounds and not other ST libraries then you do not have to set up anything. After ST is installed and configured you can then use your Forte as the default synth if you want but you can also right click on any instrument in the Biab menu and select a Hi-Q patch and it plays automatically. Not quite nobrainer simple like a regular GM synth but pretty simple all the same. Most of us think those patches are better than the Forte or other basic GM synths and if you don't want to mess with loading other ST sounds then just stick with those. I don't know for sure but you would think PG will probably come up with more Hi-Q patches later.

Bob

Thanks to all for the info on this. I have just bought the expansion pak for $10, well £6.39 in sterling.

I don't have biab 2013 just the ultra pak 2012 but as I understand will still be able to use it once I install sampletank free and the bought £10 pak.

Thanks to all again for the work you are doing in getting it to work well with biab.

Musiclover

Oh, sorry. Maybe I'll stop putting a name in there and just post my comment.

Bob

Noel,

This is the tedious part of soft synths to which I referred.

I've loaded the Omnisynth2 into the ST directory (Sampletank 2 sees it) and I can select instruments and play them (actually pretty good GM set so far) but I can't figure out how to get BIAB to USE this GM set as a GM set?

I still have to select each instrument/patch one at a time (unlike point and click to Forte or an external GM module).

I only ask because I think you may have already figured it out - any hints here appreciated

Larry

Hi Larry,

Here's a thread that explains what to do.

... how to set up OmniSynth for General Midi

Scroll down to a post from Jim111, he explains it.

It sounds quite a bit more complicated that it actually turns out to be.

Essentially, if you navigate to C:\Program Files\IK Multimedia\Instruments\OmniSynth 2, you'll find a folder called "GM Prog Chng Bank". This folder contains the midi maps for general midi. Jim suggests copying these to x:\bb as it makes them easier to find because one of the maps needs to be loaded each time BIAB is started.

To load a map ...

1. Click on the VSTi button. (If you cannot see this displayed, click on the >> to the right of the yellow cross to view icons that are not on the menu bar.)

2. Click on "Load Default Synth" (1); the dropdown sythn menu (2); select SampleTank (3).

3. When SampleTank loads, click on "Program CH" (1) and then select "Open Map" (2).

4. Now navigate to the map files at C:\Program Files\IK Multimedia\Instruments\OmniSynth 2 and select either one of the STMP files. (It's definitely easier to fine the files if they are copied to x:\bb.)

That's it.

Open one of the midi-only styles in BIAB and double-check that SampleTank is indeed now operating as a GM synth.

All the best,
Noel

Very helpful. Jimm111 refers to loading 'SRGM KIT O1 DRY' in channel 10 of sample tank. Can't find a file by this name, know what this is? Thx for all!

Hi Ron,

I've just posted these instructions under the "Tips and Tricks" forum. If you go there via the following link ...

... link to article in "Tips and Tricks"

... scroll down to points 5 and 6 and it will tell you how to set-up midi drums.

All the best,
Noel

This works great, THANKS! ST is still crashing BiaB for me but that's another post...

Noel

Thanks! I JUST read that OLDER post but this helps everybody and bumps this info to "top" now.

DC Ron

Just a suggestion after my many hours playing with ST and BIAB today - try loading the actual VSTi and NOT the DXi (wherever the " SampleTank2.x.dll " was placed when you installed Sample Tank (I keep all my VSTi's on a different drive and subdirectory than C:)

Larry

Larry, appreciate the tip on selecting ST as VSTi and not DXi. Don't know how I originally dorked that up but I did. Anyway it's fixed now and perfectly stable. THANKS and happy new year!

DC Ron - Glad I could actually help someone for once.

You didn't dork anything up, the DXi does (and should) work on my machine but isn’t the most stable thing, and I crashed out of BIAB more than a few times playing with ST and Omnisynth until I tired the VSTi version.

Especially problematic when you load the Omnisynth2 GM bank "script."

FYSA to whomever wants to run down this rabbit hole the "script or patch list" (whatever you want to call the STMP file) is just a simple but complete 001-128 listing of 128 OmniSynth GM .stip files but mapped so that patch select 1 maps to ST 0; patch 2 to ST 1, … 128 to 127 (looks like zero based patch select) .

So if the script (STMP) is loaded then as soon as you hit play, and BIAB tries to send the initial patch list to ST, the whole thing freezes (BIAB, ST). Again ONLY the DXi does this (on both a WIN 7 64 bit and Win XP 32 bit machine).

The error is "Access violation in Sampletank2.x.vpa …." And since the VSTi works and I'm done chasing this DXi down its particular rabbit hole.

Larry

Quote:

Crap, I need more midi sounds like I need a hole in the head. When do you have too many? Answer: When you no longer know how many you have! Thats where I am at. When it comes to BIAB Coyote Forte is completely satifactory. The sounds have always been the best available and it works seamlessly in BIAB - no adjustments needed.

So now this comes along. And for days I stare at it. And I see all the problems folks are having (it needs to be configured each time?). But even still I am drawn like a Mouth to the flame. What is it about these things? I know it will only cause me distress but wait, you say it sounds good? better than Coyote Forte? and it only costs $10? and the sale is over tomorrow? Here I go again. But tell me one more bit of info to push me over the edge.

Will I be able to run it on my laptop and desktop? or will the registration and security prevent this? Becareful how you answer, as my fate is in your hands.

Dan

Dan I feel for you. I have this real issue with BIAB I always end up playing the piano instead of tweaking.

I would say more but I would not want to put my foot in my Moth .

Got me there.

But it is up and running and it does not appear to need to be configured each time. Once I set the Default Synth to ST and load the Midi map. Then close program and reopen, it is still there - thats a good thing.

Quote:

......You didn't dork anything up, the DXi does (and should) work on my machine but isn’t the most stable thing, and I crashed out of BIAB more than a few times playing with ST and Omnisynth until I tired the VSTi version.

Especially problematic when you load the Omnisynth2 GM bank "script."

FYSA to whomever wants to run down this rabbit hole the "script or patch list" (whatever you want to call the STMP file) is just a simple but complete 001-128 listing of 128 OmniSynth GM .stip files but mapped so that patch select 1 maps to ST 0; patch 2 to ST 1, … 128 to 127 (looks like zero based patch select) .

So if the script (STMP) is loaded then as soon as you hit play, and BIAB tries to send the initial patch list to ST, the whole thing freezes (BIAB, ST). Again ONLY the DXi does this (on both a WIN 7 64 bit and Win XP 32 bit machine).

The error is "Access violation in Sampletank2.x.vpa …." And since the VSTi works and I'm done chasing this DXi down its particular rabbit hole.........

Exactly my experience!! DXi unstable here in same way, but the VSTi is stable. I chose to have both the DXi and the VSTi installed during initial setup, and assume the BB installer automatically put the DXi into the VST interface dropdown. I certainly didn't. Anyone know if it's safe to "unregister" the DXi from the BB interface?

BTW, many thanks to Noel or whoever posted about the Omnisynth deal. Much appreciated.

FWIW, some additional observations. You can set up a combo in the ST interface, including one of the Omnisynth drum kits, and save as preset. The combo can be comprised of patches from all ST libraries, regardless of which patch map, if any, is loaded. But the preset won't save the patch map. Also, in the BB midi options, there's no harm in enabling GM2 (as opposed to GM). Since there's no bank select in ST, choosing a higher bank sound simply sends the program change for the GM bank - ie. no error or freezeup.

I notice that selecting a HiQ for a BB voice places that patch in the corresponding ST slot for that voice (not the default), but without benefit of a patch map being loaded. It's as if there's a separate instance of ST loaded for the track, and BB somehow knows how to get the patch loaded without needing the .stmp map. So there may be some untapped power in the BB presets (.tgs files) in terms of flexibility on choosing ST instruments even without a map.

Happy New Year to all -Ron

Hello All,

I auditioned about 20 of the Country Bass RTs, but none really had the simplicity of the midi bass in the Zydeco style I wanted to use, although the Calypso could have worked. Others were just too high.

After reading and re-reading this post, I finally figured out how to invoke the Hi Q Sampletank electric bass. Very nice improvement,.

Thanks to Noel, Larry, John, et al, for the screen shots and comments.

Percy

Quote:

Peter said in another thread that Blake from PG Music did the Acoustic Bass patches.

I was lurking on IKM's forum and they talked about how anybody can create a new ST instrument patch.

There's so many obscure things hiding in the documentation of all this music software. That's why trying to decide which one is best for you is almost impossible because even old time users don't know all the little things any particular piece of software can do.

Bob

Thanks to all the folks who posted on this, has been a great help in trying to set it up with biab ultra pak 2012.

From all the good advice and screenshots posted on here it has been easy to set up and seems to be a sticky when I reopen biab, another good synth to use in future.

One small little needley thing which probably happens with other biab windows as well.

When I finally get to the sampletank window in biab and do some work there, If I minimise the sampletank widnow then its impossible to get it back again later on without restarting biab.

Closing the sampletank window has no such problem as then its easy to bring it back.

Thanks again for everyones great efforts that made it easy for the rest of us.

Musiclover

Hi musiclover,

Quote:

When I finally get to the sampletank window in biab and do some work there, If I minimise the sampletank widnow then its impossible to get it back again later on without restarting biab.

The minimised icon will be located on the lower bottom left of your screen. If you have an auto-hiding task bar, it's possible that this might appear over the icon when you move the mouse down and will subsequently hide the icon.

All the best,
Noel

Thanks for the info Brian Hughes!

Thanks very much Noel.

The minimised icon wasn't showing on my monitor screen, but I changed the screen resolution and now all is well.

Thanks again,
Musiclover

I've been using Omnisynth 2 for several months after reading this thread, and it offers the best software general midi sounds I've heard yet after searching several years through gm soundfonts. But having to click on "program ch" in Sampletank 2.5, then choose OmniSynthGMbnk1.stmp each time I load BIAB is really getting tedious. That's because I make other screen adjustments in BIAB to get it set up the way I want it on my monitor.
Has anyone found a solution for this problem?

- Jim

Does BiaB have the 'Load Group' option in the DXi window? If so I've had luck in RB using this to save/load certain settings.. saves a step or two anyway. Worth a shot.

I tried the Load Group function in the dxi window. No, that does not work. I'll just put up with it. Thanks.

--Jim

The thing to remember is ST itself is not a GM synth and the Omnisynth is also not a GM synth, it's simply a collection of GM numbered instrument patches that is accessed by ST which is, all together now, not a GM synth.

Nobody but us Biab'ers gives a rip about GM. Since Biab is simple to use, you don't have to be a digital audio wizard to use it. The problem that creates is a lot of Biab customers don't understand this stuff and think "why can't I just press play and it all works?" It's because you're in the digital audio world now grssshopper and as soon as you want to go beyond using the basic Coyote Wavetable or Forte synths, you're in deeper water and that requires some education. And patience. And willpower. And not throwing your computer against the wall. Ask me how I know this...

GM has always been the old throwaway soundbank for synths. It's mostly used for playing midi files off the internet, that's it. Someone who's creating their own midi files from scratch won't use GM, why should they when as mentioned above the regular non GM sound banks gives you 23 pianos or 33 guitars, 19 basses or whatever else to choose from?

Everybody else in the digital audio world wants the best individual track sounds they can get and GM ain't it, 114 instrument patches? Pffft, nobody cares about that. If people did care IKM wouldn't be blowing it out for ten bucks, right? That means if we're using Biab and we don't want to go through the hassle of setting up each track individually for each song we have to jump through these hoops to get the best GM sounds we can.

Bob

.
>>>...I tried the Load Group function in the dxi window. No, that does not work. ...>>>

I have something similar that works, kind of. In Sample Tank I picked out my favorite bass, piano, drums, etc ... set to match up with BiaBs channel pref defaults. In Sampletank I saved this as a "Combi."

In practice I begin a song using Coyote. This gives the GM compatability BiaB requires, so I can hear what I an doing automatically.

My next-to-last step is to call up Sampletank, click on the word 'LOAD,' and then call up the "combi" I had saved earlier.

Then, I can go to sample tank again and change each instrument to another Sampletank selection, if needed.

(The last two steps are optional, and frequently skipped.)

Jazz Mammal has it right, and he explains it well. GM compatibility reflects a kind of old-school thinking. I tried setting up ST to be GM compatible and realized that my head was in the wrong place. Sampletank is just not meant to work that way.

Originally Posted By: Noel96

Hi Larry,

Here's a thread that explains what to do.

... how to set up OmniSynth for General Midi

Scroll down to a post from Jim111, he explains it.

It sounds quite a bit more complicated that it actually turns out to be.

Essentially, if you navigate to C:\Program Files\IK Multimedia\Instruments\OmniSynth 2, you'll find a folder called "GM Prog Chng Bank". This folder contains the midi maps for general midi. Jim suggests copying these to x:\bb as it makes them easier to find because one of the maps needs to be loaded each time BIAB is started.

To load a map ...

1. Click on the VSTi button. (If you cannot see this displayed, click on the >> to the right of the yellow cross to view icons that are not on the menu bar.)

2. Click on "Load Default Synth" (1); the dropdown sythn menu (2); select SampleTank (3).

3. When SampleTank loads, click on "Program CH" (1) and then select "Open Map" (2).

4. Now navigate to the map files at C:\Program Files\IK Multimedia\Instruments\OmniSynth 2 and select either one of the STMP files. (It's definitely easier to fine the files if they are copied to x:\bb.)

That's it.

Open one of the midi-only styles in BIAB and double-check that SampleTank is indeed now operating as a GM synth.

All the best,
Noel

When i get to the final step, "loading the GM .stmp" file, I get an error notice that says "Check that all included instruments are installed?"

I can load and play the GM set w/in ST 2.5, so I know they have been installed correctly. The file paths ST uses drives me nuts. I installed them (OmniSynth 2) into my ST 2.5 folder so I could locate them easier.

ST 2.5 in my Biab set up currently shows the Biab file/path and plays fine. I would like to be able to use the OmniSynth 2 GM set up. I have to load each BB part on every song/style etc. I can also load them via selecting the HQ route as well.

Thanks for any help.

Trax

Trax

Let's stay here, OK? So to pick it (continuing your original issue from "off topic").

I maybe misreading what you just said above - but it implies that you put Omnisynth 2 libs folder in the x:…\IK Multimedia\ folder (which is the IK APPLICATIONS folder) not the IK Instrument folder. But again I may have read your words TOO literally.

If you followed all the above pics and instructions from Noel et al above and see my new "clarifying" pics below (to make sure OmniSynth 2 is where it needs to be and where ST is looking for it ) then it should work??

Also so as not confuse this any further this has zero to do with BIAB, Rea, Band or Powertracks - getting ST 2.5 and Omnisynth 2 to load up what you want is strictly setting up ST correctly and putting files where ST is looking. In other words, you could run the standalone executable "SampleTank 2.5.exe" outside any PG product to set this up and test it.

Good luck
Larry

Attached picture libs path 1.jpg

Thanks will try this at some point.

As an afterthought - there is nothing to "see" in ST GUI UNTIL after the first GM MIDI file starts to play through it, then ST will populate the part "slots" (1 upto 16 parts) on the left hand side of the GUI with instruments.

As a FINAL afterthought if you open BIAB, set the "Default Synth" slot in the "Plugins" pulldown to ST 2.5 (the VSTi; stay away from using ST DXi it causes some issues), set up ST with OmniSynth 2 with the GM "script" (STMP) file as described above (once you figure it all out) and as long as you don’t change the Default Synth then ST 2.5 will always load with BIAB and be ready to go as a GM "module."

Larry

I would guess after all this input to this simple question over the past year that the answer is, No.

The actual SIMPLE answer is: no one here really needs to because IK has already made one available!

All a SampleTank 2.5 user needs is: 1) SampleTank 2.5 (free or full), 2) the add-on OmniSynth 2, and 3) know how to use those two products, irrespective of any PG application like BIAB.

I think because PG has been providing the free SampleTank 2, when they could have simply told folks that there is a free one available and pointed folks to the IK MM site to obtain it, that somehow PG is ultimately responsible to explain how to use SampleTank and OmniSynth together to get GM.

PG provided HQ instruments that use (depend) on the ST DXi for playback of the samples could have installed ST DXi ONLY and "hid" it from other uses within BIAB. Like some plugins provided by Cakewalk that will not work outside Cakewalk (i.e, exclusive to CW), or Mixcraft provided VB3 and a few other plugs that only work within Mixcraft, etc.

Larry