Hi Bart,

Welcome to the forums.

So that we can get a bit of a clearer picture of you setup ...

Can you paste an image of what your midi setup options are (found under "Opt. | Preferences | Midi driver")?

CLICK HERE to be taken to a thread that gives an explanation as to how one can post images in these forums.

If you have Windows Vista or above, the "Snipping Tool" will allow you to capture a portion of your screen. Thus simply open up your Midi driver options and use the snipping tool to capture it as an image.

The below image is my setup that I've captured with the snipping tool.



One thing that might be worth checking is the channel that your keyboard is sending to BIAB. Is it sending all channels? If so there should be no problem. BIAB uses the "Thru" track to monitor external keyboards and this is set to channel 5 by default.

Regards,
Noel

I cannot tell if you are a noob or not and am only trying to help you get it working from the information you have given.

That was just the first step, and there have been indeed some posters here who needed that bit of information, so it was given.

If the Input is highlighted and still no MIDI joy, this could be a Channel problem.

BB's default Thru MIDI channel is 5. This can be checked and changed in Prefs->Channels.

However, the keyboard itself may be the better place to change the MIDI send Channel.

See page 8 of the Keystation manual for how to change Channels on the Keystation, that is the place I would do it and leave BB at its default of 5. Change the keyboard to channel 5. (My keystation 49 is rather long in the tooth, there may have been manual changes and finding how to change MIDI Channels may be on a different page now.)


--Mac

Hi Noel,
First of all the screenshot:


The Impulse sends default to channel one, but I've tried it on channel 5 as well. Also, I've set Thru to 1 via Preferences->Midi options->Channels.

Hi Bart,

The image is great, thank you. What is "Control VS-100"? Is this associated with your keyboard? If so, having that as the output could be the issue since your keyboard, from what I can ascertain, is a controller and not a host for general midi sounds.

Try selecting "Microsoft GS Wavtable Synth" as your output and activate the checkbox on the right called "Route MIDI thru to midi driver". Restart BIAB and see what happens.

If that doesn't work ...

1. Uncheck "Use VST/DXi", restart BIAB and see if it works.

2. Next, I'd leave the "Use VST/DXi" box unchecked, keep the above outputs (GS Wavetable) progressively work through the other input options.

Let us know how you go!

Good luck,
Noel

Should see the BB keyboard indicating input regardless of what Output is selected.

Starting to think this may be some sort of Driver issue. Sometimes a Driver will work with some programs, not with others.

And make sure that any other programs that might call the same driver are shut down completely when testing, another minimized program might have it and not be inclined to share.

Have you checked the website mfr for a newer driver release or is that a Class Compliant keyboard?


--Mac

His Screenshot shows ASIO (Always on...) is invoked.

I doubt that the audio driver is involved here, as we are talking the tiny MIDI input data.

But I suppose anything's possible.

When I'm troubleshooting I'll try things that are seemingly unrelated just to rule them out, every once in a while doing such might also change something that yields a clue as to what's really going on.


--Mac

Did you try the "MIDI monitor"? (the MIDI button)

Under the filter settings, the source should be set to "Computer MIDI Input"
and the channels and events should all be marked on with 'X'. The monitor should
indicate any messages that are received from the keyboard.

If you don't see any activity here, I think you won't see it anywhere else in the
BIAB program either.

megafiddle has a good suggestion there.

Well, great to see you guys thinking up all these options! Thank you. Here it goes:

"Control VS-100" is the Sonar V-Studio 100, an external soundcard. I use it for all music stuff and this used to work on BIAB 2010 (the last version I had before the current). Again, clicking the virtual keyboard yields sound in this setup.

I select GS Wavetable Synth and Route MIDI Thru to MIDI Driver -> no input from Impulse but sound from virtual keyboard

GS Wavetable Synth + VST off -> no input from Impulse but sound from virtual keyboard

Control VS-100 cannot work with VST off, since the soundcard doesn't have any soundbanks.

To cut a long story short, no input (visual or aural) from keyboard in any combination.

Moving on:
The Impulse is USB class-compliant. Novation provides a driver for so-called Automap features, but I haven't got it installed. No other programs are open while using BIAB.

Changing from ASIO to MME doesn't make any difference.

And finally, the MIDI Monitor shows no activity when inputting from the Impulse.

One final thing: when I had BIAB 2010 everything worked but with a different keyboard. So I set up the old keyboard in the configuration I used to have, but that, too, didn't register any input from the external keyboard. And of course, I also get no input from the EWI-USB. And both instruments work flawlessly in Sonar X2. Which leads me to think it must be a problem in BIAB.

So, not much further than we were. I'm going to put the question to Novation as well (have been hesitant about it, since I have more faith in forums than in support), but any suggestions are very welcome, naturally.

Thank you all very much!

Hmmm...

I wonder if SampleTank as you VST/DXi is creating issues.

1. Click on on the VSTi icon.



2. Click through the different tracks (Bass, Piano, Drums, etc.) and remove all software synthesizers.



3. Once that's done, click "Default Synth" at the bottom of the list and add "VSC DXi" as the synth if your computer has a 32 bit operation system. If you operating system is 64 bit, choose TTS-1 (which is probably there because of having Sonar).

Just another thought.
Noel

i'm wondering if the Novation Impulse 49 keyboard works in realband?

installing BiAB and realband only, no real tracks or other options in a different directory for test purposes may be an option

in the past when i've had issues like this i've used Autoruns for Windows v11.34
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/sysinternals/bb963902.aspx
to temporarily disable all but essential divers to try and determine which was Causing the problem

Try doing a Return to Factory Settings from the Options menu inside BiaB - Select the Second Choice in the list, which not only returns the user setting to defaults, but also will re-invoke the MIDI/Audio driver selection Wizard in same fashion as a first install does. Follow the Wizard prompts when they come up and re-select your settings from there.

This could be a result of a corrupted settings file's data in BB, Return to Factory should clear such things up.

And -- if it doesn't, will provide one more clue as to what's not happening, so it is certainly worth trying IMO.


--Mac

OK, one by one:

For some reason I can't find TTS-1 but I have loads of other VSTi's. Tried Kontakt5 (among others) but it doesn't work. Playback is fine, virtual keyboard is fine, no input from Impulse.

I did a full reset to Factory Settings, but no results.

Then I started up Realband and had to define my MIDI driver setup. Chose Impulse in, Control (VS-100) out and CoyoteWT as synth and then I got this:

Error opening input driver: Impulse
A non-defined external failure has occurred (I have to translate this from my Dutch OS)

Then I chose MIDIIN2 (Impulse). Same result.
Then I chose EWI-USB. Same result.
Then I chose MIDI (VS-100) and then CONTROL (VS-100) with the same results.
And then I'd run out of options.

Seems to me this is tell-tale though I'm not at all sure what tale it tells.

O, and then I remembered I still have another instrument: the You Rock Guitar, which also works perfectly in Sonar. But alas, same error in RealBand. So I have three instruments from 3 different manufacturers and they all don't work?

Hi Bart,

If this were my problem, my next step would be to send and email to support@pgmusic.com and included the link for this thread.

There's a great deal of information contained in here. Because Support have a database to call on, it's likely that some of the things said in this thread suggest possibilities for solving the problem.

The more I'm reading this, the more I'm wondering if it's an operating system problem. To help get some background regarding this ...

1. What is your operating system?

2. Is it 64 bit?

3. Is this the same operating system that you were using for running BIAB 2010?

4. What is the path of the folder that BIAB occupies?

Regards,
Noel

1. Windows 7
2. 64 bit
3. Yes, same as for 2010
4. C:/bb, with realtracks on external drive.

Actually, I'd already contacted support a few weeks ago (by now I'm a bit confused about which support I asked what question when) and it's still ongoing. I'll refer them to this thread. Thanks.
Also, Mac said he might have another trick up his sleeve, so I'm waiting anxiously...

Bart,

I've read in these forums a number of times that users of Windows 7 find that they must set administration privileges to the file BBW.EXE. That might be worth a shot. I don't have Win 7 but I believe it's a matter of right-clicking on BBW.EXE and it's self-explanatory from there.

Regards,
Noel

Noel is moving in the same direction I would and is tip should be investigated.

It is starting to sound like one "protection" software or another is preventing pgmusic products from accessing the drivers for some reason.

This could be one of the protections built into your windows operating system, such as the administration privileges, or it could be an aftermarket protection program as well.


--Mac

Because you can't save presets in SampleTank if you haven't started BIAB in admin mode I already do that by default. Aftermarket? You mean anti-virus and firewall?

Hi Bart,

When you installed 2013, did you install it over the top of 2010? If not, how did you go about the installation process? Also, are you running SampleTank as a DXi or a VSTi and is the the 32-bit version?

Regards,
Noel

I'm not sure if I installed 2013 over 2010. I think I uninstalled 2010 first. I certainly have reinstalled 2013 at least once, after uninstalling it.

SampleTank is VST. I've also tried VSampler3 DXi with the usual results: OK output, no input from Impulse.

A couple of new thoughts that concern the configuration files ...

intrface.bbw (watch the spelling, it's NOT intErface
mysetup.dk

THOUGHT ONE

1. Close BIAB.

2. Go to x:\bb folder for the 2013 version and rename the above two files to "intrface.bbw.old' and "mysetup.dk.old". (That way you'll be able to get back to them if needed.)

3. Start BIAB. New configuration files will be created.

This is the ultimate factory reset and sometimes it's necessary to actually delete the config. files to kick start things. It's worth a shot in this case.

4. If the problem still exists, then simply delete the newly created files and rename the original files back to their original names.


THOUGHT TWO

1. Close BIAB.

2. Rename the above two files config. files to "intrface.bbw.old' and "mysetup.dk.old" if you haven't done so already.

3. If you still have an installed copy of 2010 that works with your Impulse keyboard, copy the above two files from the working 2010 version and paste them into the folder containing 2013 after you renamed the files in the 2013 version. (I have no idea whether or not the config. files are forward compatible but I suspect they are because I always install newer versions of BIAB over existing versions and my setup remains intact. It's definitely worth a try.)

4. Cross your fingers

5. Start BIAB.

Regards,
Noel

Well, I've done some radical stuff. Uninstalled 2013, unplugged Impulse and removed all mention of the Impulse from the registry. Then I installed 2010.5 and plugged in the old keyboard (Roland PC-200 MKII). This is not a USB keyboard, it plugs a DIN directly in the V-Studio 100. This was the setup that used to work fine. But it doesn't now. Exact same problem with input. Still, seems to me I did in a more radical form what Noel96 suggested.

Then I uninstalled 2010.5 (removed /bb at the end manually) and reinstalled 2013. And we're back to square one.

Also, I disabled realtime scanning in McAfee, but no results. I still have to figure out how to add bbw.exe to a list of trusted programs in McAfee; usually you only get that option when a file is suspect.

But, at least I'm now pretty confident it's not an Impulse-issue, since I can't get input from 3 other instruments. The weird thing is of course, that it all started with installing 2013. And whatever it was that did it, it can't be rolled back.

A real longshot (but simple): In the midi settings window there are a couple of switches relating to local on/off. Does toggling them make any difference?

At this point, might be worthwhile to test the controller completely independently of BB, with a utility like MidiOx. Oh, wait, the controller works with other music software? Hmm, this is a toughie. Maybe fire up BB, but set it to no midi input, then run it into MidiOx while BB is running. Just to rule out that there's nothing in the BB environment causing the issue.

Good luck. -Ron

The local on/off toggles don't change anything.

MidiOx is for 32 bit Windows, isn't it? Would it work on Windows 7 64 bit?

Hi Bartveld,

I have a few questions. Roland’s VS-100 has 64 bit drivers. Are you sure it will work with 32 bit programs? Sometimes Roland/Cakewalk stuff doesn’t play well with other programs. Have you tried using it with other 32 bit programs? Are they the latest drivers?

If yes have you tried increasing your driver latency in the BiaB MIDI/audio drivers setup to say 500ms? Maybe your latency is to quick at 12ms.

Don’t know just asking.

Good luck.

Bart,

Could this be a McAfee-based problem? Did you have McAfee up and running when you first installed 2010 a couple of years ago or was BIAB already set up with McAfee was installed? The order of installation could be relevant.

The reason I ask is because about 12 months ago there was a thread where a guy was having BIAB problems and it turned out to be his anti-virus software. He downloaded and installed Microsoft Security Essentials (free to all who have a legitimate copy of Windows) and the problem went away. I've searched the forums and, unfortunately, I cannot find the thread so I'm still in the dark as to what the software was.

Why not send an email to support@pgmusic.com and ask if McAfee is known to have any impact on the successful running of BIAB?

Regards,
Noel

Hi Bart, I've been following this thread because there's a used Novation 61SL on Craigslist right now and I'm thinking of buying it. A couple of observations here, first no need to keep uninstalling/reinstalling Biab. I've never had to do that in the last 7 or 8 years on 4 or 5 different computers. Whatever issues I've had Biab has never, repeat never been the culprit. It's simply the settings not some install problem.

Note my sig below, I also have Win 7 64 bit. Just for you I just dusted off my 3 year old Evolution MK461c controller. This was the last one under Evo's name before M-Audio took them over. M-Audio's driver will work with this controller if somebody ever needed to update but it was not necessary for me. This computer is 18 months old and I never set it up with my Evo so this was new for me. I plugged it in and Win 7 immediately saw it and installed drivers. I then opened Biab (important point, any time you change the controller or change ASIO settings, Biab has to be closed and then reopened). Anyway, Biab sees the Evo, I selected it and everything's good including Sampletank. Oh yeah, I set the Evo to Channel 5. I'm using my Sonic Cell as the interface, it's has it's own ASIO driver and the latency was too high so I went in and changed it. I forgot to close Biab first and that caused all sorts of glitches but when I closed and reopened it all is good.

I had my computer custom built for me and the guy set me up as admin on bootup so that's not an issue. If this helps you when I click on "computer" and double click my C drive bb shows up right near the top of the list. Biab does not write to the registry so it doesn't go in either "Program Files" or "Program Files (x86).

If you set your system up exactly the same as mine but that Novation still doesn't work then I need to know since I'm right on the cusp of buying one. Personally, I seriously doubt it's a problem with the Novation, it's in your Biab settings. To summarize:

1. bb shows up in your root C drive directory, not in either of the Program Files.
2. Win 7 automatically installs the controller.
3. Inside Biab your Novation is the input and your interface is the output.
4. Select ASIO and it's "Always On".
5. Close/reopoen Biab.
6. Select a softsynth as your default, if it's not GM then select an instrument on Ch 5 inside your plugin window, if it is GM then you can use Biab's instrument select window for the "Thru" track.
7. Put your Novation to channel 5.
8. Play the Novation.

That what I just did and my Evo works fine. Again, I had not set it up with my new computer until just now.

Forgot, make sure your Novation is turned on first before you open Biab.

Additionally, to clarify the "Route Thru to Midi Driver" thing, the window that opens says clearly if you're using ASIO, that setting is ignored.

So many little things to mention, I've never used any commercial A/V software, I use MS Security Essentials, AVG, Malwarebytes and Spybot. All free and they've all worked for me for years and years. So it's possible I guess, that your McAfee might be the culprit.

Bob

Bob the jazzmammal makes a good point about use of MIDI drivers and Band in a Box.

The MIDI device must be connected and recognized by the OS with BiaB completely shut down. Then start up BB.

I have several USB class compliant and several that need their own drivers and that always seems to get me. I start up BB and then remember I don't have the keyboard attached. Attaching at that point, BB won't connect. Gotta shut down BB completely, attach the goody, then start BB again. Darnit.


--Mac

Now that I'm all hooked up, I've been playing with it and found a couple of small glitches. First I thought I had ASIO working fine set at 13ms but that was with 4 midi tracks and Real Drums. When I switched to 5 RT's plus me playing on the Thru, I got glitches and I had to set it back up to 20ms. Not good, 20 is a bit too high for my liking. I can work with it if I had to but I can feel the latency. So, too many live audio tracks causes glitches at 13ms. The other thing is when I changed instruments inside ST and tried to play the controller right away, very bad latency until I hit play on Biab, then it was ok. I'm going to experiment more with ASIO including with RB but right now it's dinner time.

Bob

@MarioD: I still have Kontakt4 32 bit on my machine and that plays nice with Roland VS-100.
Increasing the latency of the driver in BIAB doesn't do anything.

@Noel96: I've had McAfee for many years, it was already installed before I installed 2010 a few years ago. Never was a problem. However, when I get home tonight I'll uninstall BIAB and Mcafee and then reinstall BIAB to see what happens.

@jazzmammal: I've done your 1-8 checklist and many variations on it but to no avail.

@Mac: The Impulse has no on/off switch, it starts up when the PC starts up, so that's no problem.


Gee, I feel like a whining child by now, saying "no, that's not it" at every suggestion you make. I'm sorry. Rest assured that I very much appreciate all your efforts, even though you may feel by now that we're grappling at straws. I am already in contact with support and as Noel96 suggested I have asked them to also look at this thread.

Ok, dumb question. Are you familiar with GM? Do you understand my #6? Kontakt is not a GM synth so the Biab instrument dropdown over on the left has no effect. You have select an instrument manually inside Kontakt on midi channel 5 before you will hear anything. You haven't told us those kinds of details yet. Excatly what synth are you using and how are you setting up an instrument to play using your Novation?

I just scanned through the thread and I see you have Sampletank. Lets use that. Make ST your default synth just like I did and then put the ST piano on Channel 5 inside ST's window. I'm sure you must know this already but just in case, your channels are on the left side in ST's window, click on #5 and then go back to the right and double click any instrument to insert it on channel 5. Then back in Biab click on the Thru track on the main Biab screen and make sure your Novation is set to Channel 5. If that doesn't work, I'm out of ideas, it worked fine for me the first time I set it up. Maybe it is some incompatibility issue with Novation, if so you're screwed.

Don't keep uninstalling/reinstalling Biab, you're just wasting time.

Bob

Without sounding too much like a PG fanboy, the only thing I've run into in the last 7 years that is PG's fault was when I bought Jamstix and it wouldn't work in Real Band. Other than that without fail, the issue is some simple config problem. Without being there looking over his shoulder at his monitor the only thing I can think of is point out possible things he may have overlooked. Anything's possible but I think it's very unlikely the problem is his Novation is somehow incompatible with Biab. Novation's a big name, if it works with everything else, it works with Biab and that's all there is to it.

Also, I ignore when someone says they're not a noob. Anyone who's having these sorts of problems is a noob and I'm just trying to list all possibilities. I'm certainly not some computer guru but I know basic Windows operations and these programs. My stuff simply works using the defaults and that's it. It's been mentioned several times already that Biab does not write to the registry yet there's mention of uninstalling and using reg cleaners. The admin thing gets noob's all the time yet it's basic Windows protocol. Same thing for 32 vs 64 bit. You have to pay attention but it's really no big deal.

I'm convinced there is no issue here other than following directions properly. This is not belittling Bart at all, this stuff can be confusing plus he's from a non English speaking country, that could be an issue as well. He's just overlooking something simple. When's the last time you heard of anyone having a deal breaking problem with a big name midi controller like Novation?

Bob

Ha ha, of course I'm overlooking something simple and stupid, I'm convinced of that now that we've walked down every other avenue. And after all this has been cleared up, I'll come back here blushing like a debutante at the ball, crying shamefacedly "Now why didn't I think of that?" (or you, for that matter). Noob is a relative term.
As a longtime user of BIAB I'm as surprised as you are by all this. However, support has offered a remote session, so they can look under the hood. I'll keep you posted (if I'm not too embarrassed).