posted this on the mac forum for several days, got 1 reply but it really didn't answer the question. i still have biab set up on my win software and would do it on there if i have to. i do understand this can be done with midi drums only and am prepared to use that (in this one situation) if i have. ANY HELP APP
am using the Mac version of 2013. would like to take the BB drum track and break it down to individual tracks
(kick, snare, etc) and then xfer these trks to my DAW (Reaper). sometimes i find mysel needing to adj these individual tracks on mixdown - maybe i need the kick drum a little softer, the snare a little louder or whatever. seems like i used to be able to do this using the win ver of BB and another DAW (might have been cool edit pro or nTracks), can't remember.
any help app
fivestring
I do not believe this is possible (midi or RD), however, I do believe many of the realdrums are stereo and that different pieces can be heard on the Left and Right Channel. Lets see what others say.
If you are using midi drums you can use a drum vst like Ni Battery, it will allow you to to use
whatever drum kit sample you like and adjust the level and pan for each drum.
This is the Biab forum so inside Biab the answer is no but you can do it in Real Band and probably other DAWs as well.
When you open the file with RB the midi drums are all on one track but right click it or highlight it and go to the Track Menu and there is a command to split the drum track to individual tracks. Remember though, they will all be on the same midi channel so if you want total individual control over each part, you have to change the midi channels for each track otherwise you change the volume or effects on one and it still affects them all.
This is for midi drums only, Real Drums are stereo audio files.
Bob
many thanks for reply, Bob
i'm using Reaper for DAW and will naturally try that first. your info was quite helpful and tks again
fivestring
Is it possible to export RealDrums as a midi file into a DAW and then use that midi file to trigger EZDrummer?
Hi Robert,
As far as I'm aware, Realdrums have no associated midi data so it's not possible to do what you ask. Many Realtracks, on the other hand, do have midi data because that's what's used to create their notation. That being said, though, BIAB has stacks of some really good midi rhythms that could do the trick.
To access these midi rhythms, simply deactivate the "Substitute Realdrums ..." option I've labelled "1" in the below image. This is found under "Opt | Preferences | Realdrums".
Once the auto-substitution is switched off, loading in a midi style creates a midi-based drum track that can be saved and used by external programs. (For reference, midi-only styles are those that do not begin with _ or = or M_)
Regards,
Noel
Hi Robert. Time to dust off Bob's mantra again:
"Midi is not audio, audio is not midi ommmmmm..."
Gotta know the difference. Midi is simply digital computer commands instructing a midi synth what to play. It's the synth that creates the audio you hear. Midi by itself is not audio. Real Drums are stereo audio files, no different at all from a favorite CD you may have. This question about Real Drums and midi could just as easily be "How do I convert Phil Collins drums from the record to midi?" Sounds kinda stupid when you put it that way, right? Audio is audio, not midi.
When myself and others refer to putting drum tracks into a DAW like Real Band, we're referring to midi tracks not audio. It's pretty rare to have access to multitrack drum recordings of a single performance because it's difficult if not impossible to have completely separate parts of a drum kit recorded each on it's own track. It's hard to do because of audio bleeding between all the mics. Most audio drum tracks are stereo like the Real Drums. When you hear all these different drums on a commercial recording and some are panned left or right and sound great, most of that is overdubbing in the studio. It's very hard to recreate that live in one take.
When people on this forum talk about notation being made from midi what happens is someone literally has to listen to the audio track and transcribe it note for note into a midi sequencer in order to create the midi information that is required for notation to work. If there were to be a midi file created from a Real Drum track then that would require someone to sit down with a sequencer and a midi controller and recreate the Real Drums playing into the computer using the midi drum controller. Even if someone were to do that perfectly and you now have a perfect midi file created from the RD track is that midi file going to sound anything like the original audio file? Absolutely not, they have nothing to do with each other. The sound of that midi file is entirely based on what your midi drum synth sounds like.
Converting an RD track to midi is basically trying to create a live midi drum track. Biab already has hundreds of those played by good drummers on midi drum kits. Those are live midi tracks and if you use a high quality drum synth like Jamstix or BFD then those midi drums can sound almost as good as a RD track.
"Midi is not audio, audio is not midi."
Bob
Real Drums...no. But you can save midi drums to separate tracks. Via the Midi button (or F6), Export song as midi file (several previous BBW versions do this), in the "Choose destination for Standard Midi file" dialog, select "Drums on separate tracks" in the save as midi file type pull-down.
A lot depends on the style chosen and drum instruments involved. But then at least in a separate DAW (SONAR, etc.), you can than use different drum kits and and or drum instruments there. Even without saving as separate tracks, what drum voices are played can be managed with a drum mapper in a DAW or drum VST. But, the separate tracks provides a lot of flexibility. Often, I use both BBW midi single track drums and separate track drums for a given song. Also, this is a way to augment real drums with midi to add percussive sounds not included in the real drums style.
Hope this is of use,
Richard
Quote:
many thanks for reply, Bob
i'm using Reaper for DAW and will naturally try that first. your info was quite helpful and tks again
fivestring
This has been my # 1 request for years. There are various work around's as mentioned above, but they will not yield a beat for beat replacement of a RealDrum track.
I use Reaper, Sonar , but more often Studio One. If you use Studio One with Melodyne built in , or if you own Melodyne you can follow my tutorial on how to separate out stereo audio drums track into note for note separate tracks. ( with a little work)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xNZ8KOK_qrY
Since you mentioned Studio One, I found a good deal on S1 Pro on Ebay some weeks ago and then Melodyne had their sale so I upgraded to the full version. I've been too busy at work to get into it but now I can so I'm anxious to see just how good Melodyne really is. I didn't want to say anything just yet because I haven't used it but it could be the answer to this thread not only with Real Drums but all of the Real Tracks, we'll see. I would love to manipulate some of the soloist RT's to make melodies or tweak them for certain phrases and I think Melodyne can do that. I also love the way it's fully integrated inside S1 Pro.
Bob
They need to have RealDrumCharts just like they have RealCharts for the instruments,
then you can simply use the midi to trigger your drum sampler and have the levels and pan where you want them.
Quote:
Since you mentioned Studio One, I found a good deal on S1 Pro on Ebay some weeks ago and then Melodyne had their sale so I upgraded to the full version. I've been too busy at work to get into it but now I can so I'm anxious to see just how good Melodyne really is. I didn't want to say anything just yet because I haven't used it but it could be the answer to this thread not only with Real Drums but all of the Real Tracks, we'll see. I would love to manipulate some of the soloist RT's to make melodies or tweak them for certain phrases and I think Melodyne can do that. I also love the way it's fully integrated inside S1 Pro.
Bob
Melodyne with BIAB RT is a blast!
Some not all of the sources in my Studio One Melodyne advance series are RT. I think it is the saxophone track in the last chapter.
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/17697.page or https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL5B3DE88819B23479&v=pyeWpfGfDWA&feature=player_embedded
It is great for tuning, returning, building harmonies, and just general completely rewriting the melody with in an audio track.
That's YOU! Wow, I never put 2 and 2 together with your username. I've been watching your vids off and on for the last couple of months during my short breaks from doing taxes and plan on trying this stuff out this weekend.
The link on the Presonus forum goes to your tutorials 1-5, but they're not named advanced. Is that a different series?
I have to say it amazes me how many folks take the time to put together vids like these. I know it's not easy and I really appreciate what you've done here. Good job.
Bob
If you export the RD tracks into a DAW you can make multiple copies of the stereo RD tracks then use EQ to emphasize the individual drums. This technique would allow a modest amount of control over individual drums in the mix.
Since reading this thread I also quickly experimented with Melodyne Editor and a RealDrum track. If you open a wave file in Melodyne and make sure it reads it as a polyphonic track then it splits the various sounds into different components e.g. cymbals, toms, snare, hi-hats etc This means that using the Melodyne amplitude (I think that's what it is called) tool you can easily increase or decrease the sound of individual drum hits. You could also of course remove a cymbal crash that was not needed or indeed you should be able to copy one and move it to another place if you needed one. This gives quite a bit of extra flexibility. It is a good idea to export your drum or any other wave sound without reverb into Melodyne and this helps the program to analyse the sounds more accurately. I have not managed to split the individual drum sounds to separate tracks but having the ability to adjust, move or copy or increase and decrease sounds of individual drums is great and pretty straightforward. I have sometimes used Melodyne on Bass RealTracks to change notes slightly. I had one which was a walking bass-style bass track against a chord of F9 or F7 and it kept generating the track walking down F, E natural then E flat and no sensible bass player would walk an E natural against F7. If you have an incorrect guitar chord generated once again Melodyne can rescue the situation and it will interpret the polyphonic parts of the chord so if there is a wrong note or an unwanted note it can be changed or removed.
Melodyne Editor is an amazing tool and also quite intuitive to operate.
I treat the real-time as room-mics. I load them as the primary drum track in my DAW and then save my BIAB file as MIDI using the drums on separate tracks option. Then I load the MIDI file into the DAW and use a sampler to add individual kick and snare support blended-in underneath. Adds a little more individually controllable "umph" (the technical term) to drum parts.
Make sure the tempo and time signature match in your DAW and BIAB first though, or it won't work.
Another method I use is to add individual samples manually on top of the realdrums but that's much more time consuming because you have to sync each one up.
Cheers, T.
Damon autocorrect "realdrums" as room mics.
So this works for you?
In the past when I have attempted to generate MIDI drums for Real-Drum tracks it generated a different drum track that has a different feel and fills etc.
I was waiting for him to come back but maybe not. I think what he's talking about is beat slicing or beat mapping a Real Drum track. I know Cubase, ProTools and other DAW's do that but not sure about S1, I still haven't had time to get into it yet.
Anyway if you beat slice a drum track you create a second midi track based on those beats, you then assign individual drums and layer those midi parts with those RD beats. It's still not converting a RD track to midi but as Tom says you can layer say a hot midi kick to hit right with a RD kick for example and achieve some control that way but you're not changing the basic beat.
Otherwise the only way to convert a RD track to midi is to have your best friend the drummer and midi expert transcribe the whole performance on his midi drum kit and then record it. And don't forget to feed him lots of pizza and beer because he'll be awhile.
My point earlier is Biab already has a whole library of live midi drum tracks. They have a symbol in front of them that I can't remember now but you can indentify which ones were recorded live.
The mistake people make when they ask this question about Real Drums is they're fooled by the quality of them and think that somehow that will translate to midi. It won't. You could take the best, most perfectly transcribed RD track and play it through a killer drum module like Jamstix and it will still sound like midi because all the nuance that makes Real Drums "real" is lost in the translation. And if you just play it through a basic GM synth using a basic GM drum kit it will really sound weak.
Midi is simply not capable of recording all of that nuance and synth modules are not capable of playing it back. There have been rumors for years that Midi 2.0 is being worked on. Maybe then it would be possible but it's not here yet and may never be.
A good live recorded midi drum track can get fairly close with a good drum module and Biab already has quite a few of those hiding in different styles.
Bob
Yes I understand your points. :-)
My experience even with the BIAB live played MIDI tracks is they are not a hit for hit match to any Real drum track, so you might as well use Jamstix or live MIDI loops from your drum plugin in the DAW.
On another point made earlier:
If you like the sound of the real drum track but just want to add a verb to say just the snare as an example then they first technique ( transient splits) I show in the video is quick and easy way to separate out drums for adding you own FX to the drum.
Hi - sorry, I'm not being very good about following up I'm afraid. Should check back more often after "drive-by" posting.
I was only talking about using MIDI based tracks *in addition* to the realdrums underneath the actual rendered audio track, not as a substitution. Jazzmammal is right -midi substitution would take out the subtlties in the performance, but sometimes just adding eq and compression to realdrums audio clips isn't enough to get the full sound you want. MIDI parts can add to that.
jpettit - It works provided you have "frozen" the drum track before you render to audio and save as MIDI. Otherwise, you're right -BIAB will re-generate the part as a different part each time. Also - as I said you have to make sure that your tempo and time signature match in your DAW otherwise when the soft synths in your DAW play the MIDI, it won't sync-up with the rendered audio tracks. That's pretty easy to check though -just play the audio tracks with your DAW's click track enabled.
The beat-slicing option is another method, but waaay more time consuming. E.g. I use Cakewalk Sonar X1 which has a feature called Audio Snap that detects audio transients which you can then save as MIDI. E.g. if you isolate the kick drum with eq, and set the transient detection to a level not too sensitive, it will create markers when it detects the kick or snare drums. You edit the markers by dragging them to the right place in the audio clip and when it's all OK you can copy the transient markers as midi "notes" and paste into a new (MIDI) track. Then you can play the new track using a drum synth and choose the sound you want. Then (if you haven't fallen asleep yet ;-) ) you can re-render back into audio and voila -isolated kick (or snare) drum track!
I tried doing it this way and it worked (-eventually, after a longer time and a few trial runs with missed hits) when I remembered -"hey didn't I read somewhere that you can save the realtracks as midi -and cant midi drum parts be saved on different tracks?" Oy. Way simpler.
Good luck -and I'll try to check back more often. Cheers, T.