I've been trying to lay down a simple rhythm track to practice mando and guitar lead against. There is a pause between the 3rd and 4th parts (the part where it goes from Am/Dm/Am/E7,D/. It only happens that one time in the song. Don't blame me, Bill Monroe wrote it that way. Anyway, I've played with bar and chord settings, rests, shots, and I CANNOT get the timing right. Not saying that they are not the answer, but, I can't get it right. I'd say it's about 4 beats right before that Am (I may be wrong there). Has anyone worked on this tune that can give me a tip. I'd REALLY appreciate it. (BTW, I've downloaded a few Jeruselum Ridge SGUs that were shared on the WEB but noone has taken that pause into account.

Thanks you for your help...

How

Also, I'm using BIAB 2013

Hi How,

Welcome to the forums.

I don't know the work "Jerusalem Ridge" so I went to Youtube to have a listen. The url for the version I listened to is below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URA1q31UAGM

After listening to the above, I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say a "pause between 3rd and 4th parts". Could you please have a listen to the above url and let me know at what time (e.g. 1:58, 2:07, etc.) the pause you are trying to re-create occurs. When I can hear and properly understand what you're after, I'll be in a better place to help out.

Regards,
Noel

Heyy Noel,

Thank you for taking the time to listen. When the song is played that fast it's very subtle (it happens at about 43 seconds into the song).

But, here is another youtube of the tune slower with Kenny Baker playing it (who played with Bill Monroe at the time) and he's old and playing it slower:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBLNl1zCBiE

It occurs at about 44 seconds into the video.

Howie

Sorry, that would be about 34 seconds into the video not 44.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBLNl1zCBiE

Howie again

Hi again, Howie.

I understand what you mean, now.

You mentioned that you've played around with rests and shots but I'm not sure if that means that you've made them instrument specific. I write the below just in case you haven't.

What I'd be doing is to investigate rests and shots on one or two tracks only while all other tracks play normally.

To do this ...

1. Right click on the bar in question and select "Chord Settings" (#1)



2. Now set the beat (#1). I suspect it will work best on beat 3 but it would also be worth playing around with settings for beat 4. Select "Shot" (#2). If "Shot" doesn't work, it would be worth trying out "Rest only". Now select which tracks you don't want the effect to occur on (#3). In the picture below, the shot is only occurring on the Guitar track; all other tracks are exempt. It would also be worth playing with "Excluded instruments should rest" - especially if you put the effect on beat 4.



Hope this helps,
Noel

Thanks again Noel...I will play with what you suggested and let you know.

How

There is an extra beat in the song (both versions in the links above).

If you don't have that extra beat in there, that could be part of why you can't
get it to sound right.

An extra half measure is not unusual in bluegrass, and shows up in country music also.
In 2/4 time, this single beat would be an extra half measure.

Not sure though what the intended time signature is for this song. I hear it as 2/4.

If you could post the chords you are using where one part ends and the next part begins,
I think I can show you exactly where the extra beat is.

I did a bit of research on the 'net for this and it appears that Kenny Baker and Bill Monroe wrote this together, or at least Kenny helped Bill write it. If you pull up the "recorded" version here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URA1q31UAGM

(as opposed to the "live" version links above), you'll find that, as megafiddle says, there are several places in the song where there's an extra beat in the bar.

I pulled the version I've shown here into the ACW and the first "long bar" (i.e. 5/4 if you're counting in 4/4 time) is at bar 22 (I believe).

The ACW will let you set any bar to (almost) any time signature, so it's fairly easy to line up the .wav file with the BIAB chord sheet in the ACW. However, when you "send to BIAB", there's no provision in BIAB to create a 5/4 bar. You would have to create (say) a 4/4 bar plus a 1/4 bar to get things to line up.

Good luck!
LLOYD S

I also get one extra beat in bar 22, counting the 6 bar intro, in the "recorded" version.
It's immediately before the Am Dm E7 Am
(in 4/4 time, which does make sense for this song)

I added a 1/4 measure after bar 22, and at 123 beats/minute, I am able to sync the chord
display in BIAB with the youtube audio perfectly.
That's when I discovered an extra half measure (2 beats) right after bar 32.

This is yet another reason why I'm always saying that COUNTING is the most important aspect of music making...


--Mac

Here is the info on the time signature change as played by Tony Rice (and some others).


Jerusalem Ridge for guitar in Am, 4/4 time (as played by Tony Rice)

The timing change occurs in 3/2 time described below:

2nd ending on part B consists of 1 bar as follows in 3/2 time,

16th Notes "E,F,C,G#", half note "A", quarter note rest, eighth notes "G,A"


2nd bar of Tag is also in 3/2 time consists of:

tied eighth and quarter note "hammer D to E", eighth note G, 16th notes "E,D,C,D", 16th notes "E,C,D,C"

I haven't yet put the arrangement into BB, but the two bars of 3/2 I suspect will be tricky (Peter?)

Richard

Rich:

Perhaps Peter or someone else will chime in here with a way to add the bars of 3/2.
In the meantime, since it's HowBand's stated request to just have a BIAB file that he can practice with, I think it would be easier to just use megafiddle's method above.

That is, just add a 1/4 measure after bar 22.
I guess you could also split up bar 22 into 2 bars, one bar of 3/4 and one of 2/4
or 2/4 and 3/4 depending on where the perceived accent beat falls.

LLOYD S

Hi, sorry I'm so late to the party

The song to my Covid-bound ears seems 4/4 all the way through with three ¼ beat rests added per run-through.

Iimmediately before the Part C there is one rest, and at the tail of Part D, including the repeat, there is also the rest. I've tested my perception multiple times, with and without coffee, and it comes up consistent.

I'm basing this on the 1975 Kenny Baker recording. When Bill comes in with his mandolin, he is playing a high note through the rest but if you count the rest then begin with 4/4 again, it works out perfectly all the way through.

Bill and Kenny were tricky guys. Brilliant phrasing. vThere is nothing to imply a 3/2 measure or a 5/4 measure. Just the plain ol' ¼ beat rest thrown in there.

It takes some getting used to, but if you count 4/4 and throw in the extra beat at those moments, it all works out consistently.

Love the F# Kenny plays in the first measure of Part A. Naturally, as it should be sharp I'm sure. that is the way I play it.

Great to be here. Sorry I'm late. - The Woodman

Welcome, Woodman.
Thanks for the in depth appraisal of the song structure, and the discussion on how the artists delivered the phrasing. Good info there.

To change the time signature at ANY bar:

"Edit" > "Set Time Signature (range of bars)...".

Hi HowBand

You wouldn't have the feature since you're using an older version (I believe it was included in 2017). But in the top right hand corner of modern StylePicker windows, you can enter in a popular song title or music artist and it'll give you suggestions.

I typed in Jerusalem Ridge in my newer version and it gave me some results - try out the Styles:

_BLUG2BT
_BLUEGRSF
_BLUGRSM
_BLUGRGS

You could work from an imported existing midifile, or edit the melody manually into the Melody track too, for guidance.

Melody midi channel use in BIAB is normally ch 4, in the downloadable session files below it might be ch 1.

Midifiles and printed stuff:
http://www.bluegrassbanjo.org/e-k.html
https://thesession.org/tunes/1812

PS using Halion Sonic SE (free) as Midi sound goes, this VST might give you a better sound source.

In Monroe's recording with Kenny Baker there are also some slight tempo slowdowns on the breaks, you could do that via Bar settings (F5?)
Otherwise the BIAB realtracks are great for backing with Andy Leftwich as sparring partner especially.


PS saves you work?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD1Z4xIGzmc
you'll make a better one wth BIAB's realtracks however ..