OOOoookay....

we're closing in on mid-year, which means there's a high likelihood that 2013.5 isn't too far away! Let's get a little chatter going to hype the upcoming release.

Who doesn't need more features and real tracks and superMIDI tracks? WooHoo!

I wonder which WISH LIST requests might have made it to the new release?

That subject had to pop sooner or later, LOL!

Guessing mid July to early August timeframe.

This one took a looong time this year, didn't it?

Ole

I'm A Standin' here with Money in Hand!

Thanks to my Wife.

If my fading memory serves me correctly, in bygone years it would come out in time for Father's Day.

LLOYD S

Last year, .5 came out in early August. Of course, that is no guarantee for the schedule this year.

Well to be very honest, I never need more of any of the new features . . . that is until I get them! Then I don't know how I got along without them.

Later,

I'm a new user - just a couple of years using both programs. These forums are an excellent resource. You Power Users have been a godsend to me - so here's a big thank you.

I too am eagerly awaiting what's next and/or more of the same - I think they've got us trained. But what I'd like to have most of all is a better, easier to use and less-confusing manual(s).

Both programs have too many features to be intuitive, so I have to use the manuals, and the manuals have often made my confusion worse because I can't find what I need to know at the time, the index often points me to the wrong page, or the information seems to presuppose a level of understanding of the program that I just don't have yet.

Perhaps the folks at PG could invest in you Power Users - that is, pay you - to create a short cut or best-practices manual, and/or a set of up-to-date video lessons that newbees like me could use and refer to.

Regards
SonnyRay

Have to agree with you on this SonnyRay and I'm a fairly old user still trying to figure out how to use these programs

Have people noticed that there has not been a BIAB minor update since January?

Maybe, just maybe, this means that minds are focussed on a total rewrite, including a 64 bit version.

I thought this was coming in 2013, but I was proved wrong. I still think that BIAB cant keep chugging along with bits of the code programmed for windows 95, besides, Real Tracks totally transformed and improved the program, since then having LSB and MIDI reverb on the main interface makes no sense at all. There are so many ancient and historical 'anomalies' (I won't use the word bug) that regualr uses just seem to accept, I hope these can go too. Even so its so easy to just type in some chords load a RT style and go, which is all I usually do.

I do hope I am correct and a new rewrite is on the way, even so I will buy another minor update simply for more Real Tracks

IMO

Zero

Sonny Ray, I have been pushing for an update of the manuals and online Help for years. (Have they added hyperlinks yet?) Absent that, I make it a point to always get the printed manual, and to make it mine by liberally penciling in adds and corrections to the woefully incomplete index.

In an ideal world I'd have PG Music "stick to their knitting," i.e., do what they do best, which is making unique music-creation software, and turn the documentation over to third-party specialists.

The ability to customize the menus by hiding the large number of features which I never use would, along with the addition of Rewire to BIAB and Real Band, round out my major requests. Everything else is taken care of by PG's attentiveness to other user wishes for great features I'd never think of.

Welcome to the forum community. We look forward to seeing you grow and have fun with PG products!

Richard

I have to give a shout out to the overall quality that 2013 has been. It's been working great.

The BETA Testers deserve some credit here I'm sure. Thanks to PG team and BETA testers for all their extra attention to BAIB!

Totally agree Richard. I have also suggested for years that PG have a sort of "beta test" based on the manual and help files. Experienced users could be assigned just one chapter, whatever they're most familiar with and rewrite it and submit it to PG HQ. PG could then post what they think is their best version of that chapter for testing and comments by everybody and so on until the whole thing gets completely rewritten. Then the final part of the process is creating a new index, keyword search function, etc.

Bob

I'm sure I speak for all of the beta testers when I throe a heartfelt THANK YOU very much for saying that.

There are far too many times, it seems, when posts rant about problems and blame even the beta testers for their problem, far fewer times when someone thanks us for sitting up late into the night testing, re-testing, suggesting, downloading, re-testing, cussing and discussing. Every single member of the group tries very hard to catch everything, sometimes something or other does slip through, but, believe me, that is not as bad a situation as it could have been and that's because of their dedication to duty during the testing.

So thanks again!


--Mac

Hear, hear.

Did I just hear something?
Seems like I just heard an unresolved third. Weird.

Well, Bob, you ARE the fourth...

I just walked in from a gig with BIAB (2013) and read this thread. Yes, many kudos to those beta testers. My version (so far) is solid as a rock. Sounds great with no problems. Sometimes I'll stop playing (guitar) and just listen to the rhythm section, thinking, boy, that sure does sound good, how do they do that? I don't use a fraction of all the features. I just want more improvements in the overall sound, the smoothness of the styles (no glitches), and whatever they have to do to make BIAB sound more like a real band, which really it is.

There can never be enough gratitude expressed to the beta testers and to PG support staff so I will add yet another THANKS to the entire Team.

PG + forum support has litterally set the standard the few if any software vendors can match.

THANKS!

Jim

PS: Not to diminish the above in ANY way...the Manual needs to be dumped and re-written.

(-:

+1 !!!

I see a common theme is the manual.

.. and gratitude for Beta Testers and Development.
I concur.

Something as unique as BiaB needs a lot of understanding to write a manual for, yet keeping the manual simple (with in-depth options) would help.
Tough job.

I'm happy to do it!

Well, we get to see the new features first, and we get to try to break things. What could be better?

LOL! Sort of like Mythbusters!

Ryszard,

+1 ROLMAO

Thanks, Beta Testers, AKA Mythbusters.... Appreciated!

Some one needs to write BIAB for dummies. I sure would buy it!

LMAO!

So when should we expect 2013.5?


I started using BIAB back in 1995 and used it to write several albums of material and some composing for theater but the last time I updated was 2004... and then got distracted with the "day job" and was unable to upgrade.

I am going to buy the upgrade to 2013 but then remembered that PG usually releases ever 6 months--- how soon is 2013.5 due?

There's no point of buying it now if the .5 release is almost here,

regards to you all,

joel

Welcome to the forum, Joel. You will be amazed by the improvements. As I mentioned above, last summer the mid-year release came in early August. However, there is no guarantee when it might come out, or even that there will be one this summer. Plus, beta testers are not allowed to say anything.

Also not a guarantee, but it would do no harm to ask PG Music sales now about how they would handle it if you bought now and the new version came out within different time frames.

The one thing I am completely sure of is that this is the most fair company I have ever dealt with.

Thanks for the reply... I understand about Beta testers having certain obligations...

I have to agree with you about PG's customer focus and fairness. I purchased a DXi plug-in in 2009 and when I had some trouble with it they were very helpful.

I look forward to adding BIAB into my composition workflow again...

I still have the 2004 install that I moved over from an old WinXP system and did a "string and tape" job getting it to work under windows 7 x64 [I used to do computer networks for a living but have settled into being under-employed with a commiserate reduction in stress and increase in free time.]

At first my workflow was BIAB > WindJammer (Midi Editor} > Hardware Synths > Cassette Tape

Then evolved to
BIAB + The Jammer > WindJammer (Midi Editor} > Hardware Synths > Sound Forge (mastering)

Then Became BIAB > WindJammer (Midi Editor} > Hardware Synths + FL Studio > ACID Pro > Sound Forge (mastering)

Then BIAB > Reason + FL Studio > ACID Pro > Sound Forge (mastering)

As you can see I don't tend to use a single tool but I am willing to spend the $299 for the ultrapak if only to get all the bells and whistles I can afford while I can afford them but want (as most people do) the most bang for the buck.

based on my experience last year you would do well to wait until the end of year version as they did a MUCH better sale in December compared to August last year.

I agree fully with the above.

Why buy around mid year, and it usually is't .5 more like .75 when 3 or 4 months later you will get all the realtracks and probably a better deal in the early December sale.

Musiclover

whether 2013.5 comes in June, July or August...
it's closer today than it was yesterday!

WOO HOO!

.
>>>...Why buy around mid year, and it usually..>>>>

Why? Because I cant stand waiting til Xmas to see what's next...

Seems to me that several times PG Music released
upgrades on or about Friday's.

July 5th next week....Rubbing hands together I am...

for the same reasons that I eat lunch at mid-day

July is on the doorstep.

Last year's early August release was a bit later than usual. June would have been the true .5 halfway point, but now June is behind us.

So I'm thinking we must be getting close to a dot-5er

We need an emoticon that represents rubbing greedy little hands together in anticipation. Yah. I'd use it now.

Christmas in July!!!

hahahahha! I shoulda KNOWN that this emoticon already existed! Thanks for posting Frank!

By the way.. note to all: click on the link to Franks(AKA Seeker) song (Isle of lament). For some reason he resists posting it to the user showcase, but I think its awesome!

Sorry Frank. I couldn't resist.

Dear Peter Gannon, I am so anxious... Would you have a date for the release of the 2013.5 version? Thanks in advance!

abif,

I agree with you, but that is almost like a "Dear Santa" letter.
The PG folks have been awfully silent these last months.
I "Gotta" feelin' it will be soon.

And Pat, along the same line, just took you off my Christmas list! LOL

I am looking forward to buying BIAB soon. I want to buy it now but of course I am waiting for the new .5 so I get more files. But what gave me more patience is thinking that they are packing it now with more hours of Real Tracks. They are in the studio day in and day out to give everyone a lot for their money and to make people very happy that love BIAB. So for that reason I am willing to wait until August for this. Sure then I could wait for the December release by then because it will be only 4 months away. But I don't think I will wait. I have already waited how many years since BIAB came out? I heard it is about 15 years old? I am not sure when they started producing real tracks. I am curious when that started. Let me know how many years in are they with that. Thank you

December 2007.

Good so that means there is almost 6 years of Real Tracks productions in BIAB now ha? They just keep adding them. There would be no reason to take any out unless they felt that something wasn't sounding good and they replaced it? So that is good for me starting now getting so many years of these tracks all at once. I am buying the hard drive version. Of course I want the Wave files with this. I want to produce some nice songs so I of course would want the best quality recordings. How silly not to want those lol.

One project is to produce some Bossa Nova songs. Write some songs similar to Antonio Carlos Jobim. Sinatra sang a lot of them. I sing Sinatra pretty well so I will see what I can create. I am looking forward to it. I would like to add a picture to this forum. Let me know how you do that if you can thanks. I will look for that after I send this.

Your picture works fine.

PG Music has never to my knowledge removed a RealTrack, and it would not make much sense to do so, as you say.

When an occasional glitch is discovered, they are quick to release a patch.

Some RealTracks have also been improved, such as the bass tracks that were given the additional "Simple" option (playing less 'busy'), and also added MIDI notation.

You will certainly enjoy your purchase. I have used BIAB for many dozen Brazilian tunes (in addition to those I write).

.
Lighten up the background in your picture. Lose the sunglasses.

yes I saw that about how you mentioned Brazilian. So I guess that is why I was inclined to mentioned my Bossa Nova aspirations lol. I will go check out your songs.

Yes I might use a different image without the shades. When I wear that outfit in SL I have been taking off the shades lately. I just think I look to shut out from the world. I will look more friendly if I take the shades off lol. I might leave the background. Or just go with something else. I might have lightened it up on a website I have though. Yes I am waiting for BIAB. I will be part of this community of producers for sure soon!

I just listened to the YouTube samples. Sound very nice. Very nice productions. Great trumpet your playing. Is any of that BIAB? I do want to write me a big collection of songs in the style of Antonio Carlos Jobim. Try to find a tone similar to Sinatra's when I sing them. I think BIAB has a lot I can work with. I just bought a new guitar so maybe I can add some arpeggio guitar to my productions. Though I am not the best musician. Some of the chords are tough for me to get. You need the perfect hands for placement of some of the chords. I am sure I will add something nice to it. Improve my skills as I play along with my BIAB tracks I create. Even if some songs I ad some lead notes and a few chords it will enhance it. I think my Brazilian Jazz / Bossa Nova material I will produce for my band Frychester. So I have www.Frychester.com. You can see my group. Three virtual world avatars are the stars. A cartoon band/3d virtual online band really. I will see what I can do. Not sure if I will win a grammy but I hope my songs turn out great. They will be great demos at least to pitch to some Bossa Nova bands. I will have fun selling these albums with my record company Artist Virtual Records. WOW Band in a Box has my dreams back on track lol.

Now allow me to critique your picture...Close your mouth some you may get a fly entering soon and drop the bow tie they went out of style a while back...now back to my BIAB dream! Oh and I have a new image. But this time I am holding strong!!

All the songs were composed in BIAB. You are listening to studio live recordings done in 2005, before there were RealTracks.

Matt,

I will never forget it as I decided to hold up on my purchase until the 1st of the year . . . too busy. I had to carry a new years eve gig 3.5 hours with just me, midi and guitar.

I say this because when I heard the realtracks trumpet and bone the "next" day I could have kicked by backside for not installing them before the gig. Sure makes a gig like this less of a chore, not to mention the variety for the audience and performer alike to have a few different instruments play solos.

Later,

Oh yes it does say studio recordings composed by band in a box. Sounding good.

.
Now the face in your pic is so small that I cant see anything about you.

Yes your right, I thought about that but I like my wannabe record company sign in it and you will have to imagine my avatar's lovely face...now I forgot about how your eyes are bugging slightly. So there are three strikes on you lol...ok now no more critiquing my avatar. I have a complex again and I might have to update again now!! I can't wait until my first BIAB I order when the new version comes out in two or three weeks WOW!

The songs were composed without Real Tracks? I don't understand. They sound so good. Those aren't the super tracks midi are they? Seems like a real band.

Hi, SlyRuby. Thanks for your interest, and I'll try to clear this up for you. I'm a jazz composer and have used BIAB for over twenty years to compose with. Long before RealTracks, BIAB was superb with MIDI. I then took the songs into the studio where actual studio musicians (friends I work with) recorded the songs. So yes, it's very much an actual band, just like my live concerts. The advantage of using BIAB is that I can send the musicians the songs in advance of doing the recording session

I recognize that some people may think I did the record using BIAB for the backing tracks. That would not have been as likely in 2005. Now, though, you could make a fine recording using BIAB tracks. Peter Gannon gave me permission to mention the album because of the major role BIAB played in its development. I've used BIAB to write for parts of six other CDs since, as well as other concerts regularly. The program is fabulous and is indispensible for my work. Hope that makes sense.

Band in a Box is a fine tool for composition, arranging, etc. such as Matt mentions, with the end target being a performance, recorded or live, by musicians.

There are many users doing this, maybe more users than those using BiaB as the backup band for recordings and live entertainment.

There are many ways to use this fine program.


--Mac

wow I didn't know Band in a Box was 20 years old. When I buy it soon for the first time it should be incredible. Ok well back in 2005 composing your song using BIAB then giving that track to the musicians really got things rolling for you a lot faster. The muscians could play along with your track at home for a week or so to be ready for the studio. But as you say now you can do something great with BIAB alone. Hey why don't you start working on some new BIAB productions? Just BIAB with your trumpet or whatever horn produced on your pc? Do something like that for an example. Who knows what I will do. Maybe since I will have this program I can maybe learn a few more instruments. It isn't too late. I may be 46 but I can start playing the trumpet or Ukulele or make my albums sound interesting. I just play guitar a little. All the easy chords and some bar chords. Nothing real tricky. And I know how to play arpeggio to make it sound good. I am also buying a TC Helicon product for my vocals. I am looking at the VoiceLive Play and the VoiceLive Touch.

So I guess BIAB isn't ready to create a grammy award winning album yet but it is getting close. I will become a better muscian because of it, a better songwriter. A Songwriter of more than just country songs. I wrote the collection of country years back because it was easy. The easy chords and all. But really my country voice isn't me since I don't really have an accent. Though Australian country singer Keith Urban changes his accent for his singing. Anyway I like to sing Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Perry Como, Dean Martin, a lot of Jazz Standards. But it takes a lot of work to get to be as good as them with a perfect flowing vibrato and everything else. I am getting close to being a professional singer but I still need to keep working on it.

You can hear some of my shabby recordings on www.JazzyShow.com. I have a YouTube demo. The effects on my voice isn't much of anything. It all takes time to sing like Sinatra lol. I might have to write some songs in the style of Chet Baker with some clear tone singing. Try that style out also.

Just some virtual world shows singing an hour of karaoke tracks is what that is. BiaB will take me to a new level!!

By the way are you in this for BiaB or to break the record for posting? I haven't heard anything about what you do. Any recording links or anything. Just you beating down my avatar like a dirty little red headed stepchild lol. If you are a true producer let me hear what you have came up with. I will critique it fairly. Pay no attention to my frivolous avatar. Think about BiaB and what you will do when you get the new version coming out soon.

I know you are trying to make 2000 posts. No need to rush and put frivolous avatar critiques out. Give us some insight on the program. Show your expertise. That is what the community wants. Go for it. We are all listening now. We want to know what your BiaB mind is about. We want to know the ins'and out's of the program. Give us the links to your productions. We would really like to hear them. I won't play harsh Hollywood producer and critique them down to a B movie on a bad day. I will bring up he positive points. Allow you to shine as much as I think you deserve. Wow!

Jerry,

the samples you posted sound great! Given the style of music that is your strength, I predict that you will absolutely love BIAB! Many of the included styles are a perfect match for the jazzy songs you sing so well!

Welcome to the forum! I look forward to hearing your first submission to the Users Showcase
(That's where people who use this software post original songs they've recorded using PGMusic products)

I wish someone would do a "RealBand for Dummies"... I'd snap it up in an instant. Every time I try to pull it out and learn it, I get frustrated within an hour and just close it and move on...

Yeah, I know...."It's easy--if you know how..." But for some reason I just cannot seem to make any headway with it.

A "Dummies" book, please?!? Anyone?!?


And I'll add +1 for the Beta-testers!...

I would also like to add that I think it's time for a MAJOR overhaul of the built-in HELP functions... Thanks!

Hey Pat Marr,

Thanks for the compliment on my singing. I hope to keep improving my skills. I want to buy some effects from TC-Helicon to improve the sound of my voice also. You can double your voice and tons of different things. There is VoiceLive Touch I am considering and VoiceLive Play. The quality is professional. Many pros use their equipment.

But of course I have to sing quality into it to really sound great. I know it will build my confidence also so that will be good for me. One of my projects I want to do with BiaB is Bossa Nova style music. Sinatra collaborated with Antonio Carlos Jobim for a while. He was the originator of Bossa Nova they claim. Songs like Quiet Nights, One Note Samba, Wave, Girl From Ipanema, Triste, Meditation, Dindi. Songs like that. Look for them on YouTube.

So I am planning on attemping to do something similar to these songs. With BiaB I have a good chance. There is so many different styles and I see Bossa Nova also. In the past I wrote me a collection of Country songs because when I was 20 or so I learned to fabricate a good country western accent and I just wrote a big collection with some basic chords. I still of course have my collection of songs I wrote and in fact I will be producing them in BiaB also. But country isn't my main desire here. But I will have some fun with it.

I plan on producing a few different artists from my record company Artist Virtual Records. All my artists will just be online bands or singers. 3d Virtual World artists. Like Gorillaz were considered a cartoon band. Very successful. There were many more cartoon bands in the past. But now we need Virtual World success. It just means I can be anyone I want to be. I actually only plan on being the artists that I produce with my record company. No plans for anyone else.

One is a band I call Frychester. You can see a picture of my band on www.Frychester.com. So you can see the three avatars that will be the stars. I believe my country western productions will be Jerry Angel. But I am singing in Second Life as Jerry Angel and singing Jazz Standards..lol..anyway as you can see even before I own BiaB it has me doing some thinking. My dreams of being a star is back! I will produce the best albums I can and sell them digitally all over the world with using my record company with a great distributor called Mondo Tunes. Check out that company. They also have CD Baby. CD Baby will make your CD's for 4 dollars..but Amazon will do it for 3 dollars if you buy 100. But I am not sure if that means they ship them all to you at once then you have to ship them. CD Baby ships them.

Ok now I am just type happy on this. Anyway yes I am waiting for this to come out. I was a little impatient going to pgmusic looking to see if it is out yet but I am not worried about it. I changed my mindset. I want them to take all month because they might be in the studio now producing some more hours to really pack it with a lot of new tracks. But of coure to me they are all new since I don't own it yet. So I am sure it will be great.

Also thanks for telling me that I will really like it with the genre that I sing. So there must be a lot of potential to produce some songs in the Jazz Vocal genre...and hopefully Bossa Nova also. Oh I was just thinking you called me Jerry. I thought how did he know that? My website Jerry Angel...ok lol..I have many singing Aliases lol.

SlyRuby aka Jerry Angel, aka Frychester lol

I had a typo...it is Quiet Nights of Quiet Stars also called corcovado

Wow I wrote a novel!

OK, we need an emoticon for IMPATIENCE!

I'm ready for 2013.5


I WANT 2013.5 - O - METER
0___________________/_100


(please?)

Welllllll!

.
Okay no more critiques. It's a tuxedo, by the way.

See my Youtube channel, listed below.

Great it's a truce then...I am checking out your songs. You produced them all in BaiB? Sounding good

... could we please come back to the initial meaning of the topic?
... or at least re-name it Sly Ruby´s self portrait...

Today has to be The day, I'm sure ,
I'mkeeping all my fingers crossed and I close my eyes and..........Dream, dream, dream.................2013.5???????

13:40 central standard time and still no 2013.5. Doesn't look like it will be today..... Of course I like a few others are waiting with baited breath but to no avail. Maybe next week... would be nice if a beta tester would at least say that yes indeed they have been testing it so it will be coming.

Earl, beta testers agree not to make any comment whatsoever until the product is released.

"...a wink is a good as a nod to a blind horse".

knowwhatImean?
knowwhatImean?
(nudge nudge)
Say no more

<%-- sorry --%>

Once again it is alllllll rharv's fault

Hope comments are not naught!

Had a lousy night, felt worse this morning.

NOW, my adrenalin is pumping....

Earl,
Changing the "<" to "[" in your signature should make the link work (if you want it to).
UBB code differs from other formats. This -> [ ] replaces this -> < >

Enjoying the evolving Emoticons, and Monty Python asides, all to fill the anticipatory space that comes with BIAB updates... I'm currently listening to the Allman Bros. "Dreams", a wonderful tune for opening space for "what's next".

Just wondering, has BIAB ever missed a half yearly release cycle ?

Sorry if this was asked before. I only visit here once a while.

I WANT 2013.5 - O - METER
0___________________/_100

I think the first dot-five release was around 2008.5

They haven't missed one since... but there's no guarantee there will be more than 1 release per year. We never know until there's an announcement made on the day its released.


yeah, this gets asked every year about this time. And we still don't know the answer with certainty... only that based on recent history there has been a mid-year release.

There is a 2007.5 listed on the Support page. But Pat's right, there is no way to know when or if there will be one this year.

Looks like it will be BNB 2013.7 Might as well wait for 2014 at this point.

Well .7 has come and gone looks like it will be biab.8 now.

That must surely make a lot of people want to wait to early December to buy the 2014 version.

musiclover

yeah I bought last year in September and then the next upgrade came out a couple months later and I had to pony up more $$$ for the upgrade. plus the special pricing they offered at end of year was much better than the mid-year deal so I ended up spending a lot more than if I had waited a couple of months. dunno if their pricing/specials will be similar but if so, you'd be crazy to buy at this point! (of course that is just my opinion!)

Unless the .5 version has some realtracks or supermidi files that you have to have for a project (ha, ha).

Kevin,

Hang in there....I'm hoping, but its weakening...

Lets see I've been waiting 2 months for the mid year release and its now August and no 2013.5. Only 5 months left in 13 and 2014 will be being released for Christmas. I have to admit that I love BIAB and I love messing with the new real racks, super midis etc every 6 months but not sure I can justify not just waiting until the end of the year now. There will have to be something absouetly killer for me to buy the upgrade now and at the end of the year. Once a year does make more sense and it would only be another 4-5 months the way things are going. I am thinking seriously of holding off on the summer upgrade and going with just the end of year upgrade.
wouldn't even have questioned it if the upgrade had appeared in June or July.

last year the 2013 version was released on December 1.

The more I think about all the secrecy surrounding whether or not there will be a mid year release and the beta testers vow to silence, the more I feel the users are being treated like a bunch of kids.

You know when you have a bag full of candy or sweets as we call them in UK and you don't want the kid to eat the lot, you sneak and hide not letting him know how many are left.

Or whether you have any sweets in your pocket at all!!

Musiclover

I don’t care when or if a 2013.5 version comes out as long as it is up to the usual almost totally bug free PGMusic standards. I would rather have this then a bug-loaded 2013.5 that was pushed out the door to meet a deadline.

I also don’t want vaporware like in the old days. That is the company promises X and Y goodies only to leave them out of the finish product because of coding complications.
This really ticks off customers.

Santa brings me the new version of BIAB every year.
If the mid-year version came out before Fathers Day (which at one time it did),
the wife or kids would probably get it for me.

Otherwise, I'll remain a once-a-year man.

I can't imagine what would be included in this year's .5 version
that I couldn't wait another 3 months for, but then BIAB is
a hobby for me.

LLOYD S

With respect, I couldn't disagree with you more about us users being "treated like children."

There is ZERO doubt that PG and its beta testers are all working has hard as they possibly can to launch a new version.

The fact that a release has not been announced has nothing to do with treating us like children but rather....quite obviously...that it isn't READY YET! If it WAS ready, it would be released.

The vast majority of the BIAB user community would...I suspect...much prefer to wait until PG's legendary record of releasing versions with VERY few bugs (and which are corrected in near-world record time) than to have them shove a product out the door riddled with issues like SO many other developers such as Microsoft, for example, are infamous for doing.

So, there is no "secrecy" involved. Merely the self-evident fact that when PG KNOWS that the new version is READY, it will be released...and not before.

That's a totally GROWN UP way of doing business IMHO.

Regards,

Jim

Another question:
If they take so long (for whatever reason) to issues the 13.5, how can we be sure to have the 14 under the x-mas tree?

They should have it like if someone bought it, they get to free upgrade to .5 within 1 mth. Rather than having people rage only to realize the newer version released few days after that.

That's the way it already works.

Ah really?! So if I bought it now, if it get released within 1 month I get a free upgrade?
I was withholding it for so long!
Thanks for the info!

With due respect to you Jim I disagree.

If you have been reading the thread you would realise that as far as the users are concerned we don't even know if there is going to be a .8 release (though there probably will be) but it’s a kind of game to keep us all guessing in my opinion.

I prefer more openness, it’s not hard for a company to tell their users whether or not there will be a mid year update so that the users can plan their finances accordingly if intending to buy.

And taking the average age of the biab user it’s not doing their health any good all the anticipation waiting on a product that may or may not appear.

I'm sure a lot switch on their computers every morning heart pounding sweat dropping of the forehead, straight to the pg page "is .5 here yet no no no ! I can’t stand the pressure"



musiclover

I think the main frustration here is not actually knowing if there is a 2013.5 or not.

We all wait patiently, and expect that it will arrive any day soon. And the Anticipation turns to anxiety, and ultimately disappointment. And all the while we still don't actually know will there be a .5 or not.

I respect that PG Music don't provide any new release unless they have thoroughly tested the robustness.

But from a user's perspective, they really do need to know if there is actually anything going to be released. At least knowing that would eliminate the uncertainty, and disappointment when the expectation doesn't materialize.

Previously I think I have upgraded at every release. But I won't be this year. I need a little more certainty, and a little less anticipation.

My 2 cents

Anxiety?

wow.

I think that Mac's two word reply, the ole veteran beta tester has just confirmed that to fret no more 13.8 is on its way!!



Musiclover

Again, I respectfully disagree. Mac can clear this up if he chooses but my take was that he meant "WOW...isn't it a little over the top for folks to get into a state of "anxiety" over the timing of a mid-year upgrade to a music creation program"?

Mac...you wanna chime in???

(-:

Jim

Its meant as a joke Jim and also as a compliment to Mac on all the years of help he has given to beta testing and the users on here.

lighten up ole fella or do you respectfully disagree with that as well!



Musiclover

In all do respect I had a similar thought and taking into consideration most of these post are done so with tongue firmly planted in cheek, I can't help but feel it is "we" forum members who are "acting" like children. Maybe just "one" man's opinion.

Later,

Hi Mac, please read this post

Yes, it seems anxiety, (as in to be anxious) is definitely in order for some folks...

Synonyms: Uneasy, Worried, Restless. With respect, I think the word fits OK. Thanks for commenting though.

I'm as light as I need to be pardner. I can't expect to discern humor when there in none apparent.

(-:

Jim

My only sense of "loss" is that we will only get an additional 100 styles now in 2013.
Getting 200 a year was my incentive for the upgrades.

On the other hand ... If it was mostly additional styles it would have been out? So maybe they are doing the 64 bit which would be MAJOR and maybe need more development and testing than usual...even an interface redevlopment?

64 bit would definitely be worth waiting until December

For me, buying the 20xx.5 release is all about opportunity costs. The release alwas seems to have something great, like some style that I suddenly can't live without.

Then again, like most people, I'm on a limited budget. So if some other time-limited offer comes up (I'm looking at a couple), I need to choose between that and holding on to the money for the BIAB upgrade.

With no features listed, it's a tough call. I understand that PG doesn't want to list features that might not make it through testing, and that it takes time to ramp up for the release (manufacture product, create web pages, etc).

I'm certainly not in a position to suggest how things should be done, and I'm sure I don't know half the realities of business that have to be dealt with.

But for me, the lack of information tips the balance against a 20xx.5 upgrade when push comes to shove.

Which is too bad (for me), because I know it's going to be something cool... when it finally does come out.

"Past performance is no guarantee of future results".

Where is it written that there will be a .5 release? I hate to say never but companies never tell people ahead of time that they're working on a new version of something much less any detail like "we're working on adding this brand new "---", you're all gonna love it."

Alright, almost never.

I think it's unlikely but there's no guarantee there will even be a new 2014 version. For all we know we may be waiting for a early 2015 version in the fall of next year like new cars.

Relax folks, have fun with what you've got and we'll all know about new versions when they show up on the homepage.

Bob

Would beg to differ with you there Bob.

Its the users that keep a company in business and if they feel totally left out in the wilderness about what is happening it can go as far as creating a sort of ill-feeling that they are being treated less than the way they expect to.

Doesn't matter if its the policy of most companies to do that or not, its not the right thing to do, as its the users hard earned cash that keep any company in business.

I had no intention of buying the .5 version anyway, for me the wait to early or mid December is only a short period of time, but a lot of other people on here would have bought and I can sense their disappointment in not having a clue what's happening.

Musiclover

Hi Musiclover, this is my point exactly. We all recognize the company has no mandatory obligation to provide any new version, but because of many past releases there is a demonstrated "reasonable" expectation that this might occur.

The uncertainty of whether this will materialize is my concern too.

The company could just make an announcement "sorry folks, don't expect a 0.5 release this year" or "we're still working on our 0.5" etc.

Regards

Trevor

Well, for me, I can wait. I've switched to gigging with an arranger keyboard more than BIAB---even tho' I love the 2013 BIAB model.

But we DO have a clue what is happening! PG is working as hard as it possibly can to evolve the next generation of its software.

Here's a SAMPLE PG announcement:

Dear User Community:

We are working hard to evolve the next generation of BIAB. In that regard, we are committed to certain features that are taking longer than we expected. We will release the next version whenever we finalize the features we are committed to but can't tell you when that will be because we don't know.

Does that sort of self-evident commentary make anyone feel any better????

(-:

Well i was going to buy the current version but if there is a chance that there may be a new version soon,I'll wait.

Not in a hurry anyway.

Alan

For me, the benefits of knowing whether and when an upgrade will be coming (and maybe a preview of what it will include, especially regarding new styles/genres and tools) are:
1. I would not have to check the site as often (although I do confess anticipatory excitement when I do, and I nearly always learn something new from the posts), and, more significantly,
2. I could assess whether such might have a positive effect (including realization of any wish list requests) on my current holiday project, which I tend to wrap up at the end of August/beginning of September.
But that's just me, and I'm happy with whatever we get and when, and I always support PG by upgrading each time.

Dear friends,

Every year BIAB is pregnant. Nobody knows, when it gives Birth.
Just sit down, and wait.
Suddenly it will cry out, scream.

Yours,

Doctor Jazz

Because of a snafu last year I missed my upgrade cycle, so yes, it is getting REALLY anxious here!!

I just hope the pricing stays the same, or I will be out of the game this year, no matter WHAT type of upgrades / features / etc / etc is in the works... the budget only goes so far anymore, and i have nothing left to sell!

For what its worth...

IF they are going to start only issuing yearly(?) UPGRADES why not try and schedule a mid year 100 style pack then, no new features , only new styles ... if they price that attractively I would certainly spend MY money on that. I am fairly certain that would satisfy a LOT of users ...

That would certainly satisfy me as new features are always a bonus for me but the addition of the new styles the factor that makes ME pull the trigger, not the new features ....

.

Y'all may have heard of software companies that make promises that they cant keep. I used to work for one such. They promised a whole bunch of glorious fixes and new features, and gave a date when the new stuff would be released. The stuff was not ready, but the company released it anyway. Left the burden of keeping the customer happy on the shoulders of techs like your obedient servant.

One famous story is that, years ago, M'soft released a version of the Win operating system with over 1000 known bugs (not to mention an unknown number of known ones.) They had an effective monopoly, so showing contempt for their users was not a problem.

This is something has PG Music does not do. I, too, am keen to see the new version with a whole bunch of cool new features. I am a long time user, and I understand that PG understands that it is bad business to release a bunch of bugs. So, in my estimation, version 2013.5 is overdue, but there must be a reason. It might be that the delay is due to something mind-blowing spectacular, and I am willing to cut them some slack for as long as it takes to get it right. I trust PG to put out a quality product, and so I can be patient a little longer.

.

here, here I agree with this. The main thing I get the upgrades for are the new real tracks. I figure if there are at least 2 I can't live without its worth getting them to replace 2 $50 per hour musicians on a session. Not only do I have them for this session but all future sessions at now additional costs.

So, yes if there are a couple super new real tracks in any upgrade I'm probably going to go ahead and get it.

As long as they fix the unsatisfactory Real Trax /Drums endings generation issues then it would be worth buying.

**BUMP**

I WOULD like to know IF I should start saving now for this years release, and if so how much?

Mainly because it will either be he BB upgrade, or a bass guitar, and it would be nice to know if I should start looking now for the bass...

I figure if we don't hear a thing by mid-sept I will go for the bass.

I personally think that there will be a 2014 by year end.

We got used over a .5 incremental upgrade over the last few years so I suspect that there could be some nice new/improved features coming ....

But even if not ... I "need" at least some new styles .....

I agree! The problem is the styles are at times locked to a version of BB, like the last group "needed" 2012.5 or higher,etc,so we will still need to have the program at times.

I REALLY did not mean to come across like the typical "If Co. does not do what I want, I will stomp my feet & move on", but with money being SO tight ATM I just need to figure out where I can stretch my dollar.

As night follows day I think you can rest assured that there will be a 2014 biab, unless PG goes out of business in the meantime and I don't think that is likely to happen.

Regardless whether there will a .5 or not this is the best sale to buy in early or mid December

The upgrade price of the ultra pak (has virtually everything) is usually $139 from previous years version.

Musiclover

I fully understand that Mr. Musiclover, I have been on the BiaB Band Wagon since the floppy disk days!

It is just that with the better half's med bills increasing because they are trying to shaft everyone, I just can not save as quickly as I could in years past is all, and a little info would really help on the BiaB front!

Like I said, if there is silence from PGM I will just spend the money on a bass & move on.

Only 4 and a half months to 2014! I've waited this long for .5 I'm sure I can wait a few more months for 2014. Just hope its really a major upgrade this time. Fact is I love the program but I wonder what more can they really do to make it better. I use ProTools and Sonar as primary tools to complete what I'm roughing in with BIAB. So with the latest versions of those DAW's its not that important to improve the interface and all of that. I really just get excited about some of the new real tracks. Give me some more zydacoe and backup harmonicas. A tailgate trombone instead of all soloists. 4 or 5 super real tracks and the rest won't really matter to me. So 2014 is only 4 and half months away!

A 64 bit option comes to my mind!

Why? What real advantage is a 64 bit option going to give us? I guess I'm dumb here but BIAB does what it does extremely well now. I like the fact that the program will run on next to nothing. It's fast by my standards but then I'm 70 years old and getting kindof slow

'It's fast by my standards but then I'm 70 years old and getting kindof slow.' Well said, I got a good laugh out of that.

Earl, a 32-bit system limits you to about 3.5 Gb of RAM. You can install more, but your system won't "see" it. Users are finding that this limits them severely when using memory-intensive VSTs and plugins. Also, if PG products ever begin to use Rewire, you will need to be able to run more than one DAW at a time, which will really require more memory.

HTH,

Richard

Funny one of the improvements I really wanted was ability to use different vst's. Now that I have it I don't use it. To darn complicated to set it up. I just use the gm module from sonar and change to better sounds when I go to a DAW. I use BIAB as my general scratch pad where I start my construction process and then use the more powerful tools available to us to finish it. I doubt I will ever need to use more than the avail memory for a 2 and a half minute song during this phase of the process. 5 to 7 tracks doesn't take up that much. Flip that over to the DAW and add and subtract to 40 50 tracks is where I'll run into memory problems. I don't think BIAB was ever intended to be the one complete answer to the finale toolbox one uses when creating the recording.

I guess different folks use these programs in different ways. So once again, give me a few really blow me away real track musicians that I don't have in my bag and I'm going to be happy.

I repeat - Correctly generated endings that do as a user has written EVERY time for Real Drums and Real Tracks

That upgrade by itself is worth the $'s

If you're having a real problem with that, start a new thread asking about it or contact Support. I find the endings are good but lets not get into a discussion about in this thread. And if it turns out that whatever you're specifically trying to do really can't be done at this time then this should go in the Wishlist forum because that's where PG'ers look for areas that need improvement.

Bob

Bob, thanks but no real need for another thread. It IS a well known issue after all, with several "work-around" methods (even some provided by PG themselves - so they know about it )

And tbh it is really not something for a wishlist, it is more for a "fix it up" list, or get it working to how advertising suggests it works!

I can get around it and create compromise endings, but really, when all said and done, it already is a touted operation within the app. It should just, well....work!

Dennis

2014 i think

+1 !!

Do your endings change even if you freeze your song? I write my own endings and intros. I then freeze them and they're the same every time. Ray

64 bit would be very important for me, at least. I've invested fairly heavily in some really nice but RAM-hogging sample libraries powered by Kontakt; one of them, in fact, a great acoustic guitar library, basically consumes all spare RAM on a 32 bit system, once you take into account the RAM needed just to run Windows. While I can always audition things in BIAB with SampleTank or Coyote Forte, imagining how they'll sound when I export the midi into my DAW and play it through my Kontakt stuff, it's not ideal. If I could do it from within BIAB, that would be a serious workflow boon.

Well I actually ordered 32 bit windows myself when buying pc so as to stay with things like the roland vsc.

The absence of .5 has I feel raised the expectations of so many posters here that 2014 will deliver a very different 64 bit biab, so I hope everyone will be happy when December comes around.

Musiclover

I split my gigging between use of BIAB 2013 and an arranger keyboard. Guess I can wait. However, I want to upgrade both when they become available. What a dilemma. Need more $$$ to support the habit.

I haven't been posting on forums too much. I guess you just reply to the last posting to get in on this right? Anyway yeah sounds pretty exciting though what might be coming out in December. I was all geared up for this .5 release for my first purchase of BiaB. I am glad I asked PGmusic the question will there be a new release soon...a couple months back. I will wait for December so I can get in on this hopeful big advancement with 64bit since I have Windows 7 64bit. I am going for the hard drive version. Anyone that is serious about using the Real Tracks for some nice productions should buy it to get the wave files so you can have the best quality.

I think this might be a great decision for me to buy this. I have written many songs in my life. About 20 and 25 years ago. A big collection of Country music. I think I will shine them up with all the country real tracks here. I just play some basic guitar and I know this software has something to help me produce them into sounding pretty good. I may not have a grammy award winning album. But for selling them online for a low price download I think I can get some foreigners loving my country WOW authentic from an independent artist. But really my plans aren't country. That was just me 20 years back with my fake country voice I came up with. I am now a Jazz Vocal Standards style singer. I love to emulate Sinatra, Dean Martin, Nat King Cole, Harry Connick Jr. All of those artists. So I want BiaB to help me get something going in that area. I will heist some great chord progressions from my favorite songs to get me started with a great foundation. As you know these chord progressions are not copyrightable. You just need your own melody and lyrics and the chords are all yours!! WOW! All my songs were basic chords in the past.

So this will really get me going creatively. I hope I surprise myself with what I can do. With the Real Tracks we are literally getting thousands of dollars in professional musician's studio recordings. That is why I want the wave files to those. I wouldn't put it past some professionally produced albums having Real Tracks on them somewhere to save money. Does anyone know? Anyway I do think I could be great with this program. Help me to advance and inspire me to write again.

One thing though I don't like the secrecy of PGmusic really. Why do they have to play the Apple silence role? Why? Just get some of your people on here filling us in on things. We are working hard on BiaB....we aren't going to be putting out a .5 this year everyone. We are saving it all up for a crazy blowout huge advancement for Christmas. And yes it includes 64bit and some wonderful new styles to choose from. Why can't they do that? Why the silence? Why not interact with the BiaB community? All the enthusiasts? Make everyone feel part of it. Not abandoned. Not this feeling of coldness. Being locked out from the answers. Well I am not buying it until Christmas anyway. I really don't think they are doing this .5 thing people. But how would I know? I don't even own a BiaB yet lol. Well look at the date. September 10th as I type this. So obviously it isn't happening. And if it is happening they are just taking it from my December purchase anyway. So nobody buy the .5 now. That would be a waste of your money when all you have to do is wait a 3 months or so.

Sly Ruby

as a clarification, the notion that version 2014 will be 64 bit has been entirely thought up and spread by the forum members. Nobody from PGMusic (to my knowledge) has ever said (or even suggested) that.

Every year we speculate about what "might" be included in the next release... sometimes we're right, but often we're not.

We won't know what new features actually made it into 2014 until it ships.

I would suggest to those who want BIAB to be a 64 bit program: be careful what you wish for you may eventually get it.

It will be interesting, and possibly amusing, to watch posts AFTER PG finally does release a 64 bit BIAB. (FYI: that is an big "if and when" … after.)


Larry

The percentage of people running 32 bit is probably larger than those running 64 bit. There are still a lot of people running Win XP. Whether BIAB is 32 or 64 bit is moot for my purposes. Ray

but, as somebody else noted in another thread: it's been years since you've seen a 32 bit computer for sale at a store. Everything I've seen in the last several years has been 64 bit. My last 3 or 4 computers have come with a 64 bit operating system.

So, although it may be true that there are still a lot of people running older computers, that ratio will continually decline. At SOME point, they'll need to make a decision to put the product where the most people are. Even if it means doing what sonar and others have done: ship both versions and give the user the option to decide which one to install

Peter and company have always been very cautious about rewriting the program in such a way as to prevent users of antiquated operating systems from using the most current version. I would be shocked if PG goes 64 bit.

but if they offered both versions everybody could have what they want, nobody would be excluded

I'd rather see them introduce a 48kHz sample rate first. I am getting tired of having to keep re-setting the audio interface back to 48 after using BIAB. Every other music app runs at 48, but not BIAB!

It can also screw things a bit with sample rate mismatches when editing in other software. And no I do NOT want to run my entire system at 44!! just to suit PG!

So the three things for me : get the damn endings on realtracks/drums actually working as the advertising proclaims they work; 48kHz sampling rates; 64bit so we can actually access our systems full RAM capabilities, especially when running RAM dependent VSTi's.

Everything else is just fluff afaic. These things are what SHOULD have already been in the program. And should not be considered as a feature or even a wish!

My laptop is 64 bit, but irrelevant for MY uses of BIAB. Ray

IMO A major reason to update to 64 bit is to support 64 bit VSTS. All my VSTs are now 64 bit and I just don't have days to spare to double install them all so I can use them in BIAB.
Its true that there are still 32 bit VSTs. In Cubase you can use Jbridge to 'wrap' these for 64 bit. I could not say this would work in a new BIAB 64 bit though. Depends on the quality of the rewrite.

There are so many reasons for a total rewrite of the program code, (inc a new sound engine Joden)I won't list them all that would be tiresome.

So, think it out. IF you were going to embark on a rewrite then would you do this in 64 bit or (only) 32 bit, or both.
I think that if you were to write it would be at least in 64 bit and hopefully in both, but surely not ONLY in 32 bit.

I am not sure if you can compile 64 bit code in 32 bit? It may be a semi-automatic process? Not sure...

Zero

Who knows when PGMusic will release a new version. Maybe November-December is no longer a certainty, if 64 bits is our future.... Or heaven forbid, a new GUI....

Gotta throw this in....

A really nice package with lotsa new RT's and midi styles.

BLACK FRIDAY release!

Why is this such a big deal? Are you doing a ton of video work, where 48k is the standard for audio?

When I use BiaB for a Video Project, I just convert the finished tracks to 48 using r8brain....

I like to use 48khz - why should I allow a program dictate HOW I want to run things. I know 48 is primarily for DVD, but I prefer it.

My whole system (including WMP) is set to 48...and I am aware I can run 44.1 @ 24bit but I prefer 48!!

So yeah it is an issue

Got ya!

Good grief. Joden you probably don't know that years ago when the old Soundblaster cards were the standard they were locked at 48hz? Musicians using home studios hated SB cards because they weren't considered pro level cards because of that 48hz sample rate. That caused all kinds of problems when using midi softsynths because the CD standard and the standard for all pro and semi pro audio software is 44.1. There were tons, gazillions, whatever term you want to use posts about about that here because it could cause the midi sound to drift out of synch with audio tracks due to the sample rate difference. There were workarounds for that but most hated it.

When proper pro level midi/audio interfaces came out using the 44.1 standard all the studio types dumped those SB cards and breathed a big sigh of relief.

Bob

Actually, the "pro" rate is 48KHz.

That is because 48KHz is an even division of 96KHz.


--Mac

Yep, I surely did Bob and I was totally aware of all the issues too

Just to let you know, I started PC music on an Atari STe with Steinberg Pro 12, so I have been around the whole PC music thing for a few months

D

Most application that go 64bit have a 32bit version also.
I don't think you are going to get a 64bit only.
Bob...

Yeah, I know Mac.

Not trying to start a flame war or anything but I've read tons of articles over the years about this, some very technical some consumer friendly and bottom line 44.1 is the CD standard for whatever reason while 48 is the video standard.

This is an audio forum for an audio software company where lots of folks want to produce a CD of their work, therefore PG made a decision to keep everything 44.1 for simplicity.

It just bugs me when someone wants something out of the ordinary so bad he puts double punctuation marks on it!!

See what that just did? It's like I'm some little kid shouting, while remove those double punctuation marks and it's just a simple sentence.

Bob

You should learn to lighten up, if tiny inconsequential things like that annoy you. I would not like to see what you really get pissed at!!!!!!!!!

I think they are going to have the option of 24bit 48khz for the AudioPhile version so you can choose what you use.
Bob...

lol

And 44.1 is a even division of 88.2.......

False flag, there are CD burning softwares that do the conversion from 48 to 44.1, or 96 to 44.1, or even 192 to 44.1, on the fly.

If the man wants to run at 48KHz, then the man wants to run at 48KHz.

Use of exclamation points aside.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all argument,
and which cannot fail to keep man in everlasting ignorance.
That principle is condemnation before investigation." --Edmund Spencer

Or arrogance before meekness.

Not even remotely similar....you would make a good tabloid headlines editor

Well ya found me out! LOL

Hi joden,

I don't visit this thread very often and, today when I did, I noticed that in an earlier post you said,


I have my soundcard set to 48 kHz and never have to reset it. It changes between 48 kHz and 44.1 kHz automatically.

My operating system is Vista and what I did, a few years ago, was to go to "Control Panel", select "Sound", then "Playback" (1). From there I double-clicked on "Speakers" (2), selected the "Advanced" tab (3) and then activated the "Applications take exclusive control" (4) option.



This works for me. Maybe set-ups have changed in Windows 7 but I mention this on the off-chance that it's useful information.

Best regards,
Noel.

Thanks Noel

That's great advice. This could resolve a lot of issues for many users.

Regards

Trevor

Thanks Noel, already done that, been that way almost since the first day I went to W8

No it's an issue where BIAB just drops the rate to 44 and even when then closed down the i/f needs a manual reset back to 48, for the rest of the system setup to function again.

It's no big deal as I have got a work-around method in place, but in this day and age, I really cannot see why PG don't include 48. I think it is perhaps complacency or laziness or maybe both. But then when looking at the assumed demographic of the user base, I would hazard a guess that 75% would not know what a sampling rate is ergo, PG perhaps figure why bother changing something for a small fraction of the user base.

I am not a programmer so I really do not know how much re-coding would be necessary (if any) to enable 48. And then add the quite poor sampling and recording of the real tracks (take a listen to them, there are recording artefacts, music stand noises, room noises, even some human voice noise. Plus many of them have really high and noticeable background noise.

I am not saying this to particularly denigrate BIAB, but more to illustrate that in a lot of ways it is still an amateur home player program. I am using it as a means to an end at the moment, but I think unless it picks up, once that task is complete I may walk away from it.

And please, to anyone who may read this, it is just my view only so I really hope people don't start trying to jump to the defence of BIAB. There is no need, and I am not saying it to spark a debate. If folks are totally happy with it the way it is and it works for them, well that's great, truly.

PGMusic's reason for the fixed rate is likely due to the fact that REALTRACKS and REALDRUMS are based on pgm digital recordings of the actual instruments being played.

To accomodate just the addition of 48KHz bitrate would mean having to include two different raw realtrack files for every realtrack, one set at 44.1 and another at 48. That would double the datasize rifht there.

And, it wouldn't stop at just that, providing 48 would mean that someone else would soon be demanding 96KHz.

Knowing PGMusic as long as I have, I sincerely doubt that it could be due to laziness on their part, that's pretty bizarre to even make the accusation.


--Mac

Ah, he's beginning to get it.

Joden, I'm sure you're a perfectly nice guy, just tone it down a bit. Also, you're right, the RT's do have some background noise and stuff in them. Ever listen to raw studio tracks? Same thing, you hear stuff like that all the time. It's up to the mixing engineer to clean those up if he wants. Sometimes some of the background talking and other things adds to the live recording "ambience" and some like that. Mac had a good comment one time about listening to a raw recording of an upright bass player and thinking it sounded like he was doing a brake job on a Buick.

That's what raw studio recordings sound like and the RT's are the same. They're not fully processed and cleaned up, that part is up to you just as if you're sitting in the control room listening to the raw drum track or whatever.

To me that's not amaturish, that's what pros do in a studio.

Bob

@Joden. I have to chime in with MAC here. In spite of going out of your way to suggest that you don't intend to "particularly denegrate PG"...that is exactly what you do when you suggest they are complacent or lazy.

In addition, you take a swipe at the BIAB user base...or at least your own "assumed demographic" to suggest that the vast majority don't know what a sampling rate is.

If that swipe is directed toward the older demo, then I think you're wrong. If its directed to the younger demo then I KNOW you're wrong because "kids" a lot younger than you invented (and/or commercially developed) such things as...oh...Google, Facebook, SpaceX and Pay Pal.

Certainly, BIAB isn't perfect...but name-calling the PG folks or insulting the user base isn't a perfect thing to do either.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinions...but then again...so am I.

(-:

Jim

Joden,

I cannot agree with you that PG Music is lazy or complacent. In all my business dealings with the company, they have been outstanding and even gone out of their way to help. During my time in these forums, I've seen Peter and his crew do some pretty amazing things from a customer service perspective.

Quite honestly, it never ceases to impress me that a company in Canada can look after me so well here in Australia.

Also, I believe that like all tools, BIAB/RB is as good as its users can use it. This is easily seen in the User Showcase forum where there is a full spectrum of users from 'just beginning' to 'seasoned professional'. Whenever I hear BIAB/RB compositions and productions by Steve Young, Floyd Jane, Janice & Bud, Rharv, ROG, Skyline (just to name a few of many), I'm always left amazed at how professional sounding the PG Music programs are in the hands of experts.

Regards,
Noel

Ditto, on the quality of PG Music. Just great people to deal with.
(Also from all the way "downunder")
Col

Joden
I sense your frustration, 'cause you've mentioned this many times. But I too think you crossed the line...

I wonder if there isn't another way to resolve your issue. Maybe a small script or batch file that could just revert the settings for you?

The entire post (apart from audio recording noises) was maybe and perhaps. I specifically used those terms to avoid exactly what you are all doing, jumping to the defence of BIAB, when no defence is necessary. I was posing a view from what I need from the program, end of. I really cannot understand why you all seem to be getting so bent out of shape.

Noel I never said they WERE lazy or complacent.

Re noises and artefacts Bob, I don't have them in my recordings, unless it is part of the natural sounds that go with an instrument. Bass 'board taps, guitar body noise, string squeak etc...not the stuff that is in some of these samples. They are just poorly recorded in my view. In some you can even hear where compression is used and in dead space where the compressor has also raised the noise floor so that hiss is quite evident, ie no "topping and tailing". But once I get them into Sonar I can clean them up considerably, but my point is why should I have to?

Anyway that is all I am going to add.

Nothing to see here folks, moving right along!

@Joden...."I really cannot see why PG don't include 48. I think it is perhaps complacency or laziness or maybe both."

Just ain't no way to put lipstick on that pig!

It's like saying "I think perhaps you are still beating your wife." (-:

Having produced thousands of demo recordings in Nashville...many of which were copied lick-for-lick on runaway #1 major label hits, I can tell you for a fact that the "pros" do not end up with pristine, crystal clean tracks very often and many top producers are shying away from "sanitized" mixes and mastering because it sounds artificial.

Anyway...to each his own and yes...let's move on.

Best,

Jim

In RB you can adjust the sample quality but I can't see it in BB.
Lots of people like to use higher than 44K 16bit, like when you buy loops you have the option of 48k 24bit. I think a lot of BB users are very protective of BB as it is mostly what they have been using for so long and don't tend to venture out, then when others make suggestion for improvements they get defensive cause they think you are putting it down.In the past I have made a lot of suggestions that were put down but hey PG made them, I think it goes back to that "condemnation before investigation" bit.
To have a 48k 24bit Audiophile drive would not cost much more than the 44k 16bit, that is the option I think you will see very soon.

OK, back on topic.....

WHERE is the new release, or at least some news?!

Joden just to say that although i thought you were wrong, I defend your right to make your points without ad hominum comments.

Zero

JCS, like a lot of software companies, they never do that. Best guess now is a Xmas release but that's just a guess. PG has never said there will always be mid year or annual new releases it's just turned out that way. It's a private company, they can do whatever they want whenever they want.

We'll know when we know.

Bob

Hello,

I have just browsed the main PG page and I thought I would see details of band in a box 2013.5 on the site but it seems not, no mid year release this year.

last time I upgraded was last December to the 2013 ultra pak version and I was looking forward to doing my usual December upgrade this year with double the realtrack's (as all the mid year realtrack's are included with the end of year upgrade)

But it seems this year I will have to make do with only 101, I'm sure I can live with that!

PG music is a great company and I can't thank Dr Gannon enough and his staff for making this great software available to us all. In all my dealings with them I have been treated like a treasured customer, so hard to find nowdays.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Regards
Jan

Jan, you are correct, no mid-year release (2013.5) occurred this year, at least to date. We users do not have information about what the next update may be. Of course we hope there will be a 2014 version in December.

Thank you Matt for your reply and once again thank you and the others who have helped me with music related problems in the past.

Now I am really looking forward to band in a box 2014 and all it has to offer.

Regards
Jan

Likewise. I hear on the Santa grapevine that band in a box 2014 is high on the list of most wanted toys this Christmas.

As Santa flies over on Christmas eve I will be out with my beacon light waving him in just in case somebody in hot pursuit of Santa will get there first and grab my biab.



Musiclover

And........?
WSS

Or.




--Mac

"If then goto"

"AND" ....there was 13.5

"OR" .......was that just a thought that just didn't come true?

"If then goto".... the next best thing to come, 50 days and counting!




Musiclover

else ??

end if

/sorry, couldn't leave it unclosed

From this point on all coding is to be commented.

REM ************
REM
REM This is the way I used to do it!
REM
REM ************

Getting a bit bored, are we...?

Bob

; No comment.

I'm more interested in their updating "BIAB for iPad" to make it an even more useful app to use on our music stands. Top of the list would be the ability to slide to the next song in a folder.
Cheers!

Alastair, you should post that suggestion for them in the Wishlist forum.

;This is a comment in order to insure we conform to coding architecture standards and practices.

I have, Matt. Several times.

Which one?

<!-- comment -->
<%-- comment --&>
// Comment //
<!-- Comment //-->
/* comment */
'comment
; comment
// comment
.. etc

All are valid comment methods (except '..etc')
I used half of them today.

;Then you should be able to tell which one I'm using from the formatting. Lorem Ipsum.

Can I tell? yeah
Is it one of the ones I used today? No

For the record I commented out HTML, CSS, C*, ASP and JS today (that I can think of off the top of my head).
Compiled a couple web apps in Visual Studio, and also spent a little time with MVC, so it was a fun and busy day, but not a ";" day.

And I'm really tired of seeing Lorem Ipsum .. in anything.

;Rant over

Maybe I should say a few things on this 2013.5 forum before it goes down in history. I can't really get involved with the conversation too much since I don't have Band in a Box yet. I am looking forward to writing some great songs and producing some hopefully impressive songs for some online digital albums with it. My skills as a guitar player are limited. So I know with this program I can finally do some great things. My albums might not be grammy award winning in quality with it but I think I can do something great with it. At least it will showcase my talent. Wow I will be great!

I will buy the hard drive version. Why would anyone want to get anything other than the wave files for the real tracks? Don't they want to produce their music in the best quality possible? What is it about 700 dollars? I am sure I will get that value out of all their studio recordings. I don't think they will sound bad. Sure some of the recordings might have some unwanted voices or something that isn't wanted. Hopefully they will try harder with that in the future to make sure they have higher quality real tracks. But I am sure it is far and few between so that isn't going to scare me off. I think this is the only program in the world like this. This is the best you can get. And even if someone else comes out with something I think they will try even harder to be even better. WOW!!

"Why would anyone want to get anything other than the wave files for the real tracks? Don't they want to produce their music in the best quality possible?"

It is often said here; get the best version you can afford. It pays off in the long run.

"Sure some of the recordings might have some unwanted voices or something that isn't wanted."
Show me a 'live' track that doesn't .. PGMusic took it to the next level with Realtracks.

I agree you may hear a little bit of noise occasionally in a RealTrack, but keep in mind if it really is an error, we can report it. On some tracks, noise is right, and desirable, like fret noise. Years ago, I sent in a sound file of a door squeaking in the background of a bass track. PG Music acknowledged it and the fix was released in the next update.

I am also looking forward to heisting chord progressions from my favorite Standards from Sinatra and many more. As you know you can't copyright the chord progression. So it is like a template to writing a great song. Better than the collection of country songs I wrote 20 years back.

So I guess they have never missed a Christmas release of this program right? Well now I am down to owing about 80 bucks on my credit card. So if I save up 300 dollars for it then hit my credit card for only 400 to get the Christmas hard drive I will be set for a long time. I am getting in on this at the right time.

I guess I will be getting all of the real tracks from the previous years at once. I am getting a bargain then. Is this usually available early in December? Or close to Christmas or something? We have all November to wait for this and then December will be here. Let me know when it usually is out. Thank you

Hi SlyRuby

Thanks for your enthusiasm. One thing I can say: "we all hope there's a release in time for Christmas"

Ultimately, PG Music will only provide the next release what they are satisfied it is ready to deliver to the world stage, and satisfactorily undergone exhaustive preliminary testing.

We just have to be patient. But if I can take a guess, it will be worth waiting for!

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?37616-AAJ-Tunes-Index-Changes-Analysis

Go to this site for a lot of nice chords for standards. Ray

Thanks for the chords for the standards line Raymb1. I will check it out more soon. I couldn't begin to create my own chord progression for a song other than the basic chords. I used G, C, D, A, F, E, Am, Em, and a few more sure. But nothing ever tricky. That is why I fabricated my fake country voice for all my writing years back.

But now since I am doing online shows singing Sinatra's hits, and many more greats like Nat King Cole, Tony Bennett, Dean Martin people of that style. I want to write some songs like that. And I think BiaB could help me get closer to it. Sinatra did a lot of great songs with Antonio Carlos Jobim. A Brazilian composer. That was Bossa Nova I think. It had that Brazilian sound. Possibly BiaB has some Bosa Nova stuff I can do something like Sinatra did too.

I will put all the chords in to those songs. Of course write my own lyrics and melody. It will be a new song that is for sure. But with the help of the chords from a proven hit. As you can see my avatar pic on the left shows my record label Artist Virtual. So I am all ready for BiaB lol. I don't need the music industry and any major label to sign me and put a million dollars invested into me. I just need my own wannabe record label, BiaB, some great new original songs, MondoTunes distribution and there ya GO!!

Sure the recordings my be a little shabby around the edges. At least to the professional producer's ear. But hey for a low priced downloaded album of an independent artist some people around the world might like my songs. I know I won't get rich from my BiaB productions. I might sell 5 or 10 albums a month. Who knows. I don't care. I don't need to be rich and famous. I could have a following of 500 people from around the world and be happy really. I don't need 5 million. Success is relative.

Band in a Box here I come!!! WOW!!

That will be a nice Christmas gift for myself. I guess it could be just a month away. Do you know if it is like clock work every year early in December? Or is it late in December they usually release it? How much more Real Tracks do they put on at Christmas? Is it a few hours of studio recordings? I am just hoping they have a lot of what I am looking for. I am not into rock music or anything. I am wanting to try and write and produce some albums with the Bossa Nova style. Like Sinatra. I will sound a little like him I hope also. Well maybe not exactly but that is what I am going for. Also something maybe Harry Connick Jr might record. At any rate I hope there is plenty to have some fun with so I can do something creative. Produce an online album for digital download. It might not be perfect as the pros but I will sell it for a low price and if they hate it they won't feel so bad lol.

I highly doubt if I will be upgrading this every year on that Audiophile version. 300 dollars a year is too much for me. I wonder if I can hold out 3 years? Then BOOM get a truckload more at once. It depends on what they have that I want. Who knows the demand I will have to get the latest once. At least this will be the first time I have bought this and to get the 2014 it might just be a huge bargain since there are so many years of real tracks productions in it right?

Sly Ruby

SlyRuby:

In reading through your comments, it occurs to me that you may not NEED the Audiophile version of BIAB 2014. For what you are proposing to do, the "regular" version may be fine.

PGMusic offers a 30 day unconditional money back guarantee. If you don't like the "regular" version, they would be glad to upgrade you to Audiophile.

Also, you won't need to "heist" any chord progressions if you'd rather do your own. BIAB has a MELODIST feature. You simply click on the Melody drop down button, select a genre (say, Bossa Nova), pick one of the Melodists (say, Bossa Vibes Med) and click OK.

BIAB creates a chord progression AND a melody, EITHER of which you can easily modify, OR just go back one step and have it generate a new one!

I believe there are now around 1000 RealTracks so even if NO new ones were released this year (highly unlikely), you'd still have enough to keep you busy for a long time.

As for new release timing, I've been upgrading in December for many years, and I've never seen a release date after Christmas.

Just my 2 cents CDN worth! <grin>

Good luck!
LLOYD S

The base program is the same for both the audiophile and 'regular' versions. If you bought the audiophile version, you "could" technically update it with regular versions for awhile to save money. You would have a mix of older .wav and newer .wma files. They are stored together. If BIAB finds a .wav file, it uses it; otherwise it uses and uncompresses the .wma file.

Once you update to the audiophile version, all tracks would again have .wav files.

Why does it seem by my comments I may not need the audiophile version? I don't understand what you mean. I just want to try and write and produce some very nice songs in a couple genres I never have before. I have only recorded some country songs with basic strumming in the past. So I have never done anything great. Just demos.

I just want to get into this with some quality real tracks so that I can creat some very nice music. I don't want to produce a song and put some low quality real tracks in it. I want to make it sound as good as I can make it. Maybe nobody could tell the difference after they download my songs from an online album. Who knows.

Yeah I just like to use the word heist when I talk about the chord progression. Sure I can get them from any of my favorite songs. I am sure I might be trying that. But nice to know they have other features that help. Creating a chord progression. Maybe they have hundreds in a genre. That would be nice. It creates a melody? I wouldn't want some melody everyone and their brother is going to use lol. I will put my own melody to it. But I am interested in checking that out also.

So I guess it is like clockwork on the December release. So we are all working on November now. Once December hits we are home free. From what everyone says I believe I will get my money's worth out of it. If I pay the 679.00 version it might be a small price to pay for the great songs it will help me to write. I can sell my albums online and maybe earn my money back over the years by selling them. I am sure I will just sell a couple here and there to independent artist connoisseurs or whatever they are called. B grade music lovers!! lol
If I produce music good enough for some independent cheap film I will be happy to be honest.

Maybe I can find some film makers and push some of my songs to them. I wonder if I can cut them a deal so they can legally use my songs without paying any licensing fees? That way they choose my songs over other artists work. Then I get my songs in a nice little movie for some great prosperity? WOW. I don't know much about it now. Just kicking around ideas.

To SlyRuby:

you don't NEED the audiophile version.

I've made at least thirty sessions where small excerpts of BIAB created parts were used in actual pieces used in ambience music for film and TV.

HTH,

SlyRuby:

You alluded to the reason I said you may not need the Audiophile version - if you are just going to put your songs up on the 'net for download, I doubt if many people could tell the difference between the Audiophile and the "regular" version (as per LtKojak's comment above.)

If you were going to produce your music yourself, including mixing, mastering AND burning to CD, then selling them, then perhaps the Audiophile version would make sense.

You said that if you paid extra for the Audiophile version, you likely wouldn't be able to upgrade to the new version every year. That seems a shame to me. I would rather have the regular version and update it yearly, and have all the new features and the new RealTracks.

Matt's idea would be a good compromise. Buy Audiophile, then upgrade "regular" versions until you can once again afford Audiophile. Or as I said before, buy "regular", work with it for 30 days and see if you get the sound quality you're after. If not, upgrade to Audiophile.

Good luck!
LLOYD S

Sly, to buy the Audiophile set or not really boils down to how old are you and how critical are your ears.

The regular Real Tracks have excellent sound quality. Have you listened to the demo songs yet? Those demos are all done with the regular RT's not Audiophile. They're not some overcompressed glitchy sound, they sound awesome. When the Audiophile tracks were first announced lots of very experienced studio recording types on this forum did side by side comparisons and a lot of them but not all, said that they couldn't hear any difference or if they did hear anything it was so slight as to be inconsequential.

Still, the Audiophile tracks are pure uncompressed wavs and are the best you can get and some folks simply want the best and there's certainly nothing wrong with that. But the question is can YOU actually hear the difference? I submit that very few over 50 can but if you're really doing studio production work and you're dealing with young recording engineers then those guys certainly can tell the difference so the Audiophile tracks are worth it.

To me it's a waste of money but check out all those demos, and decide for yourself.

Bob

In addition to good hearing as Bob mentions, you will also need good playback equipment and a decent listening environment. High-frequency hearing helps a lot, and although I'm well above 50 (and 60) I still have one ear that does the trick nicely.

I was one of those who did some of those early tests in 2008, and could easily hear the difference when audiophile files were first provided. The difference is more pronounced on certain instruments, like a solo acoustic guitar or a cymbal sound. However, for the last several years, there seems to be less of a difference, and I think it's because of the Elastique algorithm used now.

Also, the audiophile files did not need to be uncompressed so they used to load a bit faster, but again, that difference has mostly disappeared with faster machines and technical improvements in the program.

Bottom line: if you want to produce commercial backing tracks, you probably want the audiophile version. Otherwise...

wow great feedback on my rattling on I did great lol. Thanks for all of the input. Yes I bet a side by side test on the wav files and the regular I guess mp3 I probably could barely tell the difference. If the mp3's are 320kbps that is so high I probably couldn't tell the difference myself. Nice to know Kojak also did some productions with BiaB with regular real tracks for film and television. Though wow I still think I might go for the first purchase ever of BiaB get the audiophile and go for the Gold!!...That is years of real tracks right? How many? maybe 5 years of them? I am just thinking when I produce my album and create songs I really do love it will be very nice to have the very best audio files for it. Because I will be very proud of my songs. But I do believe many of you are right that I won't be able to tell the difference. But they I can pay off that 679.00 no in a couple months. Then all of those high quality files are mine forever. And many of you have invested maybe two thousand in this over time buying all the other versions. I am getting in when there is a huge amount of real tracks right? I think for 679.00 it could be a bargain with all I can accomplish with this program.

What I am going to be able to do with this is start my songwriting again. Years ago I was a prolific songwriter writing country. No I never made it as a songwriter. I never really got around to marketing them. Though I do have them online now for kicks. I think I will produce them in Band in a Box though. There are a lot of country files in it so I think I can do something with them. Though I am not interested in country music now. If it is possible to change the genre and use the lyrics with a new style. I will try it.

I am not trying to be rich and famous here for my music I produce with BiaB. I am not going to the music industry and trying market my songs to them. I highly doubt it. But you never know. My plans are just to make my own business. My own little record company. Distribute my songs with MondoTunes to over 750 online stores I guess they say. All for one price of about 40 dollars an album. So I think I can someday pay for my BiaB with selling my albums. Who knows they might sound like a joke to some that hear them. But others will love my songs. Maybe an Indempendent Artist enthusiast in Japan will love my songs and buy my album in an instant. Or some woman in France might think I am the best and listen to me in her car going to work everyday. I don't need fame and fortune.

So my concept is Artist Virtual Records. My productions are likely going just to be my albums of myself. I will produce them under different names. One project is a virtual group named Frychester. You can see my possible album cover on www.Frychester.com it isn't anything great. But that is one idea. I will do a solo album under a couple other names also. Sly Ruby, Jerry Angel. Wow BiaB has opened up the horizons. Got me ready for some not so bad productions from someone that hasn't produced anything in his life other than bare-bones guitar / vocal demos. The Frychester group project will be Bossa Nova style with my voice sounding kind of like Sinatra how he sang all of the Atonio Carlos Jobim songs. That is my hope that I can put his flavor to my voice. That is what I hear when I sing those songs but I am sure I don't sound close to Sinatra in reality lol. You can try and emulate someone but you cannot match him. So even if I go for his tones I am who I am. But that is what I am going for. You go listen to Sinatra sing Change Partners with Antonio Carlos Jobim on YouTube...wow that was great. If I can do something like that I would love it.

At any rate hey this is all a hobby anyway. I don't care about making it big. And I am not going to ever fit the shoe as a star. So that is why I have Artist Virtual. No need to tour. No need for interviews. I will produce my virtual group and artists. Right now I sing in Second Life as Jerry Angel. That is a virtual world. So any of you singers out there interested in doing a few shows in a virtual world Second Life is where you want to do it. I just had a show last night singing at the Cafe Casablanca. I did an hour set. All from the Great American songbook. That is what I would like to write actually. Songs that sound like they are from that genre. The Standards.

I better get going. My BiaB dreams have only just begun!! Wish me luck!!! lol

Sly Ruby

Hey Kojak how does somebody get started in a career like you have? Is there anywhere I can go to learn about it? Sounds like you are very successful at it.

SlyRuby,

The files are not in mp3 format for the standard version.

They are in .wma Windows Audio compressed format.

They sound great, whether played back standalone or played back within BiaB.

A lot of people don't seem to realize nor understand that a file that contains a single instrument track, while compressed, may not even contain the full 20Hz to 20KHz audio spectrum in the first place. For example, horns in the single instrument category can sound pretty much the same whether using full PCM digital audio .wav fomat or the compressed .wma.

If the information is not even there in the first place, there is no need to store it in the full audio spectrum.

And, since these are "one instrument at a time" files, the compressed format does not suffer from the kind of digital artifact distortions that compressing a file that has the complete performance of several or more instruments to contend with all at once.

Of course, if you just truly WANT the Audiophile edition, I don't have a problem with that. There's whiskey and then there's top-shelf whiskey as it were. Just be advised that the Law of Diminishing Returns kicks in just as hard in this instance as it does with any other audio reproduction instance. Sure it has better sound spec, but we have to weigh for ourselves whether or not that certain percentage of added mo' betta is worth the expenditure to us.

Just thought you should know,


--Mac

Thanks Mac, that is something to think about. As you are speaking about the compression of a single instrument. That is good to know. I have never heard any of that talked about here. Though I don't drink alcohol so my analogy is...you have Flavor-Aid and then you have Kool-Aid...lol...at any rate I will keep this information in mind. Sounds like this compression isn't going to be any noticeable difference on most of these files. Some possibly no difference on some of these single instruments. I could save 200 dollars or so by not going for the audiophile.

Sly, Matt mentioned playback equipment. You really truly have to have oh say 2-3 THOUSAND dollars worth of medium high end audio equipment sitting in a properly acoustically treated room in order to hear these slight differences. I said medium high end. True high end would be double or triple that amount.

And, be enough of an audiophile yourself, you know one of those geeks who subscribed to Hi Fi Stereo Magazine for the last 30 years, before you're going to hear any differences at all.

Are you that guy?

If not, I'm telling ya buddy don't waste your money.

Bob

Another vote for don't waste the money. Save up for 2014!

Thanks Bob. Also Matt about the playback equipment. I was going to reply about that playback comment also but I deleted it since I already typed up a storm here lol. Right now I have nothing quality for my playback. My speakers on this pc are a joke. I don't have all that you speak of. So I am sure I couldn't tell the difference 9 times out of 10. Maybe on a few files I would say oh yes I here a little difference here. This one sounds better.

I guess it is a couple hundred dollars more to go with the Audiophile. And I am getting a hard drive which is worth about 50 dollars I think. So I am essentially paying 150.00 more. I will debate on this. It is just when I create my masterpieces it might be nice to know the quality is the best I could get it. But if that is the case I should record my BiaB tracks for my songs. Then hit a professional studio for my vocals. A place that can really help me make it great. But who knows how much that will be. Probably a bundle.

I guess I will just do it all myself. I am not going to be a star with my albums. Just people occasionally buying one on a blue moon. Independent artist enthusiasts from all over the world will be my albums. Maybe I will make 50 dollars a month selling them. That is success to me lol. Really producing this with the regular Real Tracks would be all I need.

Making this 679.00 investment isn't too bad in my mind. From what everyone says I should get my money out of this. Especially since I have songwriting skills. I have written many songs in my life. And BiaB can finally bring me up to a very professional level. My guitar strumming with Bare-Bones demos get old. And my fake country voice is out with those basic chord songs I wrote. Though basic chords can give you million dollar songs. I am moving up to the Great American Songbook! I like to sing Sinatra, Nat King Cole, Perry Como, Tony Bennett now. I try and emulate their tone. So with my new songs I write with BiaB I would like to have my own tone. But even when I do try and emulate Sinatra for example it is obvious I am trying to sound like him. But I am sure only like his red headed step child might do lol.

I think my voice with my Band in a Box productions will be like Sinatra but I have to pull back on from him some so I have an original sound. I keep rattling on this forum about my BiaB dreams lol. Hey at least I sound better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. The Great American Songbook is hard to sing. You have to be a trained singer to do it or you just sound bad. So that means I sing some songs and sound very nice. Then others I might need some work. At any rate enough being BiaB type happy here. I am going to get creative that is all I can do. Will I be famous? No. Will I get rich? No. Will everyone love my songs? No. I don't care.

Who knows though. I might do something sp great that someone could stand up and take notice. At least making me out of a professional songwriter. This is the reason BiaB will be worth the money for me. If I was a great piano player and musician I wouldn't need Band in a Box..but then again maybe I would. I would build my production from it. Get it all structured. Timing perfect. Add my drums and bass. So yes even if you are a great musician it could be worth your money I bed. I just hope they get this 2014 very early in December. I don't want this to be another 2013.5 wait that never happens. I am not buying this thing until the latest version is out that is for sure. Some guy on here I just read him saying he just purchased this. I thought oh bad idea. He will miss out on all the new real tracks. So hopefully he will be able to get it upgraded for free.

I better get going. I have Album Covers to prepare!!! WOW!!!

Sly,

A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

You're using computer speakers! Yet at the same time you think you need the audiophile version.?!!!

Save the money, get the regular version and save up for some decent reference speakers (not stereo speakers).

Here's a thread I think you'll benefit from reading:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=29283

It doesn't matter if I can hear my wonderful BiaB productions as much as the people buying my albums. I can listen to my songs on tinny 5 dollar speakers. But if a sexy girl in Japan buys it she may have the best of the best to listen to it on, so I would like to have the best sound. But sure it won't matter much. I am sure my vocal recording will be the weak link. Though I did buy a 300 sound effects processing device for some better quality vocals.

All of the input so far tells me that I should save the money and go for the one under Audiophile. Far and few between say to buy it. I still think I am going for the Gold and getting the 679 dollars Audiophile. I get a nice hard drive with it as I said is worth at least 50 dollars. So apparently for about 150 dollars I am getting all the best sound. And I am sure BiaB spent thousands of dollars on these recording sessions. How much do you think? 50,000? Over the years producing the real tracks? Or more do you think? Take a guess anyone that may know the studio cost of recording all of them. Let me know. Then when you give me a big number I will say WOW Great the 679 dollars was well spent.

I just hope they get this thing for sale in December. Because I have waited a few months for this. And after I get involved then I can be more a part of this forum since I will have some experience with it. I still have to prove myself here. I have nothing yet. I am not a great musician either. But maybe BiaB can help me with all that. I will write and produce a song in a weekend with this thing I hope. Export it and have something to be proud of.

Well actually when I get this program I will be more part of this forum because I will be asking a lot of questions lol. I was just saying that I will be able to add to this forum because I will have experience. I will likely inundate everyone with questions. I hope there is a good manual. And it would be nice is all of you could produce some YouTube Tutorials. It makes it very nice to see a video tutorial. It is much easier to get things rolling fast. I will have to check for some.

If you are weighing the value of Audiophile version, I suggest you weigh the value of good monitors.
What YOU listen on and mix with will affect the end product and what others hear on whatever system.

You won't be able to create a MIX that will translate if you try that.

Self Defeating.

Get the Standard RealTracks and spend the leftover money on a good set of Powered Nearfield Monitors and an aftermarket Sound Device designed for making recordings.

If YOU cannot hear it, you cannot mix it.

--Mac

Great I am glad I was the one that finally shut down this obsolete 2013.5 posting. It is due time. So I might as well just add to it making it kind of like my journal. I have been going around acting like a bigshot talking about my albums I am producing with Band in a Box. Wow everyone is excited about it all over town....not really. Nobody is jumping up and down. Likely they don't believe it will happen. But this isn't your Daddy's Capital Records produced album. Signed to their label. This is lil ole me with a lil ole project that will keep me busy. Probably earn me 500 bucks over time selling the album. So I won't be an overnight sensation by any stretch of the imagination. But in my world when I write and produce these some greats and start selling them I am successful. With Band in a Box we can become the music business I believe. You see my wonderful record label there on my avatar. Wow! I win again. As long as you are having a good time with what you are doing. So even my low expections are good enough for me!! Anything more than that is icing on the cake with BIAB!!!

Sly, you've very enthusiastic and that's great. You also sound like a very nice guy and that's also great!

But...you're doing this bassackwards. Computer speakers?! Are you kidding? This is the bare minimum:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/B...CFU7ZQgodABYAgA

This is better:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR308/

Note this price is EACH while the M Audios are for a pair.

This is getting there as far as high end is concerned:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Solo6Be/

$1,350 EACH.

If you can't explain to me why these Focals are worth the money and how you have a very good acoustically treated room to put them in then you have absolutely NO business at all discussing the Audiophile Real Tracks because you'll never, ever notice any difference at all.

One last thing, this is what I have and these are still in lots studios to this day except they have the industrial matte grey finish not the nice walnut veneer mine have:

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/altec/specs/home-speakers/model-14.htm

These were $2,850 each in 1984 but I bought mine used at a great price about 8 years ago. These are old school passive speakers and I'm driving them with a nice old SAE amp but studios will use ten grand worth of amps, preamps and other stuff with speakers like these. This is the quality of speakers Mac is talking about. You have to HEAR what is on the tracks in order to mix them properly so they sound good on your customers various setups.

Bob

"Get the Standard RealTracks and spend the leftover money on a good set of Powered Nearfield Monitors .."
QFT and all that.
I may have used the word invest in place of spend, but great advice.

There's a "weakest link" concept in several of these recommendations above. You have to consider the hardware, software, environment, and your own capabilities including both business and music. A balanced approach, upgrading whatever part needs it most at any given time, will suit you well over the long haul as you continue to develop enough to recognize where that moving weakest link is.

The novice requires input from those who have experience enough to help them get around the things that they don't know that they don't know, Matt.

An analogy might be someone without knowledge of your and my primary instrument, the Trumpet, wishing to get started or start a youngster - and thinking they can get by with a bargain horn found at a garage sale or the likes but has no way of being able to check that horn out properly.

Starting the novice out on a leaky trumpet, or one with malfunctioning valves, frozen tuning slide, whatever, is not only detrimental but may prove to be such an unsatisfying experience that the novice might just quit and might just spend the rest of their lives thinking that the problem was themselves.

The same can be said for attempting to mix home recordings without some usable modicum of monitor speakers, typically should be the Nearfield Monitor Speaker approach, which is a concept in and of itself that the novice may not yet understand.

But at least they will not be hearing the limited bandwidth, low headroom stuff that comes out of the tiny little speakers that come out of the box with the computer.


--Mac

I have a set of low end monitors (m-audio BX5A'a), some decent headphones (ATH-M50's and a lower end sony MDR-XD200 pair), a set of pc speakers w/ a subwoofer and I work in an untreated room. I still have to take my mixes to the car or the stereo system to try and fight EQ issues. I definitely don't have an optimum mixing environment and my mixes turn out OK (not great, not bad, just OK).

I got my BX5A's for $149 and traded for my M50's.

Moral of the story: There is none (ha, ha). OK, maybe that you can get decent recording done with relatively cheap equipment. But I think if you want to generate pro end recording stuff you need better equipment, a good mixing environment, skill and talent.

I think some of it comes down too to what amount of money you have to spend, what musical ability you think you have, and whether you think having better more expensive equipment such as better mics and nearfield monitors will make much of a difference to the mix.

All of the above apply to me, was going to buy a good mic, but just use the cheapest shure dynamic one, because I believe that using a more expensive wont make much of a difference.

Same with monitors I was tempted to buy a more expensive pair, but still use Logitech 5.1 computer ones.

Musiclover

be very careful about spending loads of cash on near-field monitors or high-end microphones or extensive sound treatments in your room. I am no expert but I have produced some nice recordings using a decent pair of headphones and LOTS of running around testing on other sound systems like my car, my stereo, my local audio store, etc.

one problem with expensive gear is the law of diminishing returns kicks in very quickly. is a $10,000 Neumann mic really 100 times better than a $100 Shure? Nope. Probably not even twice as good. So you can easily end up spending a ton for very minor improvements in your gear.

and anyway, even if you buy the best pair of near-fields out there, you still have to test/listen on a variety of other systems cause people listening to your music almost certainly will not have the monitors you have and every pair sounds a little different.

with that all said, I am probably gonna buy a pair of KRK Rokit RP5 monitors for under $300 very soon. decent monitors and they won't break the bank!

oh, and if you are gonna stick with headphones for mixing, I recommend VRM box (http://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/vrm-box). it does a decent job of emulating various monitors through your headphones as well as trying to compensate for the stereo isolation in headphones that you do not experience in monitors. I have found this to be a useful addition to my bag of tricks for around $100.

Along with a pair of beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro reference headphones. A wee bit pricy, perhaps, but that reference designation is critical. They are the best combination of accuracy, comfort, and durability I have found in many years of mixing, and will help you get the most out of that VRM box (also highly recommended).

Here's my roundabout way of thinking.

Sly wondered if Audiophile was worth it compared to regular version.
Then said he wasn't concerned how it sounded on his system, just on his customers.
He also mentioned working on little computer speakers.
If he can't hear the difference in the two, he can't make a mix worthy of supporting the better format. You can't mix what you can't hear.

So, the suggestion was to improve the listening environment with money saved by getting the regular version. That was the point (I think) Mac and I were both making. Not whether he could end up with a good mix by trying it, listening on a few systems, adjusting, listening on a few systems, etc etc. But rather getting monitors that were easier to learn. After doing the above routine a few times with decent monitors it becomes easier and then intuitive.
Trying to do it when you can't hear a lot of the nuances and then testing repeatedly consumes time. You still need to do it, but many less times once you can learn your monitors. (and can then Trust Your Ears)
Monitors are a good investment. A couple hundred bucks might make a huge difference.

curious how you feel about mixing in headphones, perhaps with a device such as the VRM Box? I am finding that with good headphones I can learn them in much the same way you mentioned learning monitors. I am finding the more I mix the closer I am getting to what I want when I play my mix on other systems. and for me, sharing a house with others and not doing this professionally, headphones are likely to be my main option for the foreseeable future!

Absolutely true John. This is why us old timers here pretty much all use the 90/50 rule. Find something that gives you 90% performance of whatever you wish you could afford but can't and it costs 50% of that item. You have to do a lot of reading and haunt forums like this one to find the gear that meets that formula but once you do you're golden. Nobody but a few very snobby high end pro's will ever miss that 10% and you paid half what they did.

Now to take it one step further and again I know I speak for several others here, I buy virtually everything used like my Altec's and I basically stumbled on those by accident. I bought a pair of nice old Dynaco A25's off Ebay for my sister and the seller was way out east of LA and a guy in my office lives out there so I gave him the money and he picked them up for me. He's not a musician, not an audiophile, know's nothing about this stuff. But, when I transferred them from his car to mine he asked me "didn't you tell me one time that Altec is a very good name?" I said yeah and he told me that the guy has a living room full of speakers and that includes a very nice looking pair of Altec's. I called the guy up, he wanted $425 for them, he emailed me some pics, he had them hooked up so I borrowed a friends van and ran right out there and grabbed them. Good grief $425 for a nice pair of Model 14's?? I've seen beat up ones with the veneer falling off go for a grand on Ebay and nice ones much more than that.

That's how I buy my stuff but that's not for everybody. If you don't know what you're looking at and have a good idea of values you'll likely just throw your money away. You can still get good deals using the 90/50 rule as long as you don't have to have something now as in RIGHT NOW. Have some patience, look for close outs and sales and you'll do all right.

Bob

Well I was rattling on a lot about listening to my songs with my cheap speakers. But yeah I understand when I get serious about mixing my songs I will get some nice monitors. Those M-Audio monitors are right up my financial alley someday. I am sure the monitors that are twice expensive and more aren't going to be that much better for hearing all the sounds you need to hear. I like the looks of those M-Audio BX5 D2. I will buy BiaB then get those. But I wonder what my headphones would do with hearing all of the sounds I need to hear when recording. I think M-Audio is very popular. Maybe one of he best selling monitor's worldwide. I thought I read that. Not sure but that is about the price I would pay so only a millionaire would those Focal Solo6 Be - 6.5" Monitors at 1350 each. You have to make big money at least. Remind me when I get rich to keep the frugal mind. Keep my perspective and don't start buying something like those. Buy M-Audio even when I have 2.5 Million in my bank!! If you buy the most expensive things in life your money falls fast. Buy happy fools!!

Wow, Despite the fantastic and valuable input from all involved, have I missed something obvious, or did this thread ("2013.5") ever get off-track... Maybe a new thread to deal with the current subject would be a better place to re-start?

They say you can't keep a good man down but I suppose in this its a case of

"you can't keep a good thread down"



musiclover

The topic of 2013.5 became moot and it morphed into something else of interest. I'm enjoying the adds, although it seems like one of the participants is impervious to some really good suggestions.

Not long now this 2013.5 will be a thing of the past so I better rattle more off on it. We are getting closer to December. It is now Nov 24 so this thing might be rolling out with bells on before we know it. My luck January will be here and no word. Wouldn't that be something? Just when I want to buy this program they didn't get it done. We will see.

I haven't managed to save anything toward the purchase. Not with the Executive Costco Card and T-Mobil hundred dollar prepaid taking my 200 dollars. But at least my credit card has a zero balance. So I pay 200 cash next month and go into debt about 500 dollars to get the Hard Drive and Wave files. Why not go for it? My dreams of producing my own albums is on its way.

Sure some bigshot producers may not think they are ready for the radio but for my downloadable independent productions of original words and music they might be great. For sure they will make my songs worth something in comparison to the Bare-Bones rhythm guitar I have had in the past. Say hello to new styles and opening my horizons with my creativity.

I wonder how much studio time they put into this program yearly? How many more hours of Real Tracks will it have this year in comparison to last year? And will they add more Bossa Nova this year? And how much more? I don't know how they do it. Do you think they might spend 20,000 dollars for Real Tracks productions a year? Just take a wild guess. Just curious.

Ok I better get going. Santa Claus is coming to town!! WOW!!

Hey Sly I can see you are looking forward to this new release.

Chances are you won't need $500 for the ultrapak verion hard drive.

If I remember correctly from last years sale it was on offer at $379 for first tine buyers.

And as far as I am aware to upgrade to the ultrapak plus from the most basic band in a box cost a lot less.

Of course these were last years prices, but historically speaking there has been very little difference in price each year.

Since you are in the market for this type of pgrgram there is a competing program from another company as well (though I believe that the rules of the forum prevent us from discussing or naming it here) It is no where as intuitive as band in a box or as easy to learn, but some of the users here own both, though there is no doubt that band in a box is used far more often. I have got pleasing enough results (at least to my ears) from both programs though band in a box is my number one, wins hands down.


Musiclover

Hey MusicLove, I am curious to find out about what program people are using to compliment BiaB. I am going to buy BiaB so by mentioning a program that can help in the production somehow I wouldn't think would be against the rules. That would be very strict rules if you can't express that. If you can send me a message to let me know I would appreciate it. If you came on here beating down BiaB in favor of something else I can understand. Thanks

Hey SlyRuby,

Band in a Box ships with RealBand program, which is a DAW program complete with audio plugins and RealBand is designed to work with Band in a Box style files as well as a host of other features. Multitracking, recording Audio and/or MIDI, Mixing, even Mastering can all be done inside RealBand.

While there are certainly plenty of users who use and endorse other DAW programs, Sonar comes to mind readily, there are also a lot of users who use RealBand as well.

You might wait until you purchase your Band in a Box package to see what that is all about, for it is possible certainly to use just these two programs to produce the entire shebang.


--Mac

Speaking of the audio being the weakest link, I was looking through reviews on inexpensive reference speakers the other week, and someone mentioned that they hooked up their M-Audio speakers to a Berhringer UCA202 instead of going directly to their audio card.

I occurred to my that I had a UCA202, and tried it out. There wasn't a huge difference, but the UCA202 was noticeably better.

The audio chain is only as good as the weakest link.

And as Mac said, if you can't hear it, you can't fix it.

Sly, don't even think about buying another DAW until you're completely familiar with Real Band. It works very well and it is fully capable of doing everything you need an audio/midi recording program to do at this time. Real Band IS a fully functional DAW and it's included with all but the most basic Biab purchase. I have advised folks for years that they should learn RB at the same time they're learning Biab. Spend an hour with one then have some coffee and spend another hour with the other. Keep on doing that until you can start answering other noobies questions here. Hang out on the RB forum and start reading all about it.

For you to talk about spending several hundred bucks for another DAW right now is like some rich guy letting his 16 year old kid take his 300K Ferrari to the DMV to take his first driving test. Kinda overkill, ya know?

Baby steps, baby steps. Learn how this stuff works first then when you can explain to another noobie on this forum exactly why you need another DAW, go ahead and spend your money.

Bob

Sly,
Bob (Jazzmammal) has given some very good advice. I think that Band in a Box and RealBand will take you a long way...
Enjoy!

Sounds like a good idea. Band in a Box and RealBand is probably all I want. I was thinking about Cubase since I know it could be the best. But I am sure it is so high tech I would be at a loss. And RealBand will likely be all I need. And who knows 2014 might have more improvements. So I will just go for BiaB and use RealBand. Thanks

The thing about Realband is that it supports BiaB features way beyond any other DAW.
Regeneration alone makes it worth learning.
No other DAW does that.

So if you are paying for BiaB features, you may as well learn a DAW that uses BiaB features, because you move on to a DAW to improve your final project, but sometimes you may want that DAW to be able to regenerate sections. That happens a LOT here.

In all other DAWs, if you decide to re-arrange the song, or add a verse, you have to go back to BiaB and regenerate everything, then import it into the DAW.

With RB you can continue to generate (even small sections) right on through the DAW stage.
Other DAWs DO have certain features and aspects that may make you eventually need to use them, but until then I agree with the above posts; learn RB as a DAW. Most of what you learn will 'translate' to other DAWs, so there is little time wasted on learning it.

You'll also learn what it can do that the others can't, and thus know when to switch to which DAW. Saves time in the long run.

After all that was said here about Real Band I am looking forward to that program also now instead of just thinking about BiaB. Sounds like the best DAW for BiaB you can have. Then possibly for some reason someone could use another program like Cubase to import your production into it. Or parts of it. Who knows why. I will probably always use Real Band once I get comfortable with it. Maybe I will go to YouTube and see a couple demos on it to see what I am in store for.

Hi Sly

Here's a good place to start!
There's plenty more though!

Yes Real Band will be treated like it is part of BiaB for me. I will learn both. I am sure I will just fall in love with Real Band and never even think about Cubase. Once you familiarize yourself with this one and it works wonderfully with BiaB why use anything else right? These two programs together will really be interesting to learn. I will take my time with it all. I won't expect any productions from this for a month. I think just enjoy learning about it. Take it slow. It is kind of an adventure I think to learn all of this. It is almost December now. What if on December 1st it is up for sale? WOW!! The day I do see it will be amazing since I have been waiting for maybe 4 months or so for this to come out.

Well, my advice is to START with RealBand.

*It is already included in the purchase of Band in a Box.

*RealBand will give you a much better idea of perhaps which features and how to implement them are desirable for you and your workflow, etc. which will put you in a much better place to be able to make intelligent decisions regarding the choice of a different DAW software - or not.

*It is entirely possible to publish world class musics using RealBand and the plugins which come with it.

*Having the RealBand DAW along with the Band in a Box program shipping together as they are, gives you the chance to find out more about what it is that you may not know now concerning these issues. And these forums will prove very helpful as well along those lines.


--Mac

i find Cubase to be very complicated, and a big learning curve. I have a version and have never tracked with it.

I usae RB for 95% of DAW work i do It actually does almost everything i need. However it is lacking in a few areas. Most of those you will not need at first. Learn RB and learn it well. Then add a good DAW later for things like Detailed automation, and such. Hopefully over the next years Rb will add those features as well. and there will be no need.

I recently bought Studio one only cause there artist version came with my interface free, and i grabbed the producer version for $49 black friday upgrade. I also own Sonar X-1, and Multitrackstudio, as well as reaper 4.5 truth is i never open Sonar anymore, and i never open Reaper either, really i hardly ever open MTS. I work for the most part in RB. If i want to really polish up a project with fancy automation and a few more plugs, some lane comping, Studio one will do all that.

It is my deep hope that RB adds those feature soon so I can just stay there 100% I love what the guys said about starting a project in BiaB and moving natively to RB and there you can generate tracks and part seemlessly.

Actually, Nuemann doesn't make a $10,000 mic. As someone who owns quite a few microphones, going from a Shure to an AKG C414 is a HUGE difference. The sound on a recording opens up. Much richer. Is it twice as good. Absolutely. The signal biggest thing you can invest in is a good microphone. Consider it an instrument, something that will last a lifetime.



While this is sort of true, what you do when you mix is to make it sound good on anything, be it iPod headphones or $10,000 Martin Logans. Why people spend thousands of dollars on a good mixing studio is to save time. Sure, you can come up with a good mix with just whatever you have, but it will take a lot of time. Like if you don't have a good subwoofer in your mix studio, then you perhaps won't hear that you have low frequencies that are mudding the mix....

I will respectfully disagree as I think you overlooked your mic preamp. I would invest in a good mic preamp before I bought a good mic. That Shure mic plugged into a good preamp will sound better than the AKG C414 plugged into a cheap consumer soundcard preamp.

Just my thoughts and I’m not trying to start a war.

I've not been using BIAB 2013 much this year. started out well, did a few songs but as the weather changed my attention shifted to other things. Now the nights are darker and it's "stay in doors" weather my attention is turning back to BIAB. However, I've noticed there is no 2013.5 and I don't have time to read through 14 pages of posts on this subject. Can anyone tell me what the latest info on this is please? Looks to me that BIAB are doing something big for 2014 because no 2013.5 is released or am I wrong?

Thanks.

Hi Paul. You are correct, there was no 2013.5 release. If past is a guide, the next version could come out in early December but again, the past is no guarantee.

What would be the benefit of a 64bit BIAB? Faster processing?

In other discussions on this, we've identified the ability to support more RAM as perhaps the major benefit, especially when using VSTs.

Faster processing is also theoretically possible, if the programmers take advantage of it.

Oh really? Here is one discounted to $8,000! http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SolutionDM/


And also because they buy into the marketing hype that implies a $10,000 Neumann is 100 times better than a Shure!

The law of diminishing returns is a very real concept. Where someone draws their line as to "good enough" will differ greatly from person to person. If you are wealthy then purchasing the very best of the best for only a small improvement may make sense. If you are on a more limited budget (like most of us forum users) there are lots of places where spending the extra cash to buy high-end gear may not make any sense at all!

Of course, each person has to decide for themselves as this is a very subjective process.

Well, it would be great if they have spent the time making the holds, shots and endings sound more natural across all styles and maybe fixing the midi file output.

Already a great product for the most part but I find these 'little' things spoil it sometimes. Very fiddly to get them all right I daresay but essential for the finished article.

I would rather they did that than release more and more Gigabytes of real instruments that only work 90%.

Cheers
M

I agree, the intros and endings seem an after thought but a good ending or intro can really make a song come alive. The other thing I've noticed is that the sound quality between real styles vary a lot. This is not so could if putting an album together and you use different styles from say "country" sets. Some will have better drums sounds than others, better base sounds than others etc. The differences are massive. I doubt PG Music could solve that but certainly record new real tracks with better levels, mixing and recording equipment for better continuity between tracks.

Ruby took me years to learn Cubase, I haven't used it at all this year. BIAB I use every day and I have never 'learnt' the program. I just type in some chords, pick a style and off I go, sometimes I dont even have to do this!

If you learn RB then the fundamentals of recording will be apparent without the numerous options, and options of the options of the options that Cubase has.

Tinny speakers - not good for mixing, but... listening to the final mix through them is educational as that is what your listeners may be using. Many great producers do this - Phil Spector, Quincy.. so you just might want to keep them in your studio

WOW 2014 is here!! This is UNBELIEVABLE! Now Let me go back to see the details!

Yes, version 2014 has been here for two hours now, and there are great discounts in effect through the end of December.

We'll see you on the forum with user questions now, right? Enjoy.

I just bought BiaB WOW I AM IN THE GAME of production. My songwriting will be back better than ever. My online albums will be in over 750 Stores. My dreams are coming true!!! lol I just ordered it all for 709 dollars total. I got the 25 dollar bonus deal. The audiophile version. They don't cut the prices for first time buyers. So I get no discounts I guess. I think they should have gave me 50 dollars off though really. But anyway I put it all on my credit card. I didn't get around to saving any money for it. I think I will pay maybe 159.00 on it tonight though. That leaves me a balance of 550 dollars. Next month pay 200. So as you can see this won't be costing me in interest. I am looking forward to getting started with this soon.

Hey Matt Finley, by the way. Do you think they added quite a bit to the program this year? Do you think it sounds like more than usual? What did you think when you first read what you are getting in the 2014 version? Since you are very experienced with this program and what you usually get. Do you think they gave you more than you expected? Let me know please.

Thanks,
Sly Ruby

Thanks for the advice ZeroZero,

I like the Real Band idea for me. I don't need all the hundreds or Cubase nonsense they give you. I will do like you. Enjoy BiaB. Have some good times. Make some great recordings. No need to act like a multi-million dollar producer with a million options. How about enjoy BiaB with all the options you need. Keeping it to a happy medium with everything you need to make your songs sound great!! WOW!

It will be in the mail come Monday I am sure!!

Yes Finely, now I will inundate the forum with questions instead of my BiaB dreams! I will add more substance to the forum with questions and when I learn some things I will answer some questions later also lol

Congratulations on your purchase. Yes, I am a twenty-year user. In all that time, I have never been disappointed in a new version. Sometimes we don't get all that we asked for in new features, but that is always offset by brilliant innovations that we come to appreciate once we understand them. This version includes changes that address two common requests, to overhaul the user interface and allow users to create their own RealTracks. As time goes on, that will be a game changer for this program. Don't overlook some of the exciting developments in MIDI, too. There's more than enough new here to excite.

And it's not a well-kept secret that some of us are beta testers, so we have been using the new program for awhile. That's why I'm hanging around tonight, to answer questions about the new version where I can. My knowledge goes way beyond reading about the new features.

Hey I just ordered the 669 Audiophile deal. But I just noticed this Omnipack for 769.00. Maybe I should get that. Does any of you know about that one? Sounds like you get a lot more. I may have to cancel to order that. Tell me more about that if you can.

Matt, some screen captures of the new user interface would be great!

The BiaB 2014 New Features video right on the PGMusic homepage provides you with way more than just a few screenshots.

Have fun

Here's a screenshot of Ray's setup, taken during the beta, chosen because I thought it looks nice.

Bear in mind that things like toolbars, etc. at the top half are User Customizable now, you can choose to eliminate or add icons, etc. in order to have what YOU want to see at any given time.


--Mac

You are saying now people can create their own Real Tracks? Before nobody could create them? But now they can? How was this allowed? What did they do to the program that made this possible? Also if this is true will producers be out selling BiaB Real Tracks that they have created themselves? So we will see Larry's Jazz Real Tracks for 50 dollars online?

Also I cancelled out my order and bought the OmniPAK Audiophile for 100 more dollars. Coming to 809.00 delivered. I thought maybe I should go for it. I just bought a new guitar a few months ago and it looks like they have a lot of nice lessons. If I can learn something from these lessons I will have spent my 100 dollars wisely. If I were to buy all of these separately it would cost me a bundle. Some of the program I might never use. But I think it might have been a good idea to go for it.

I also went for the 25 dollar Bonus for the 2014. So I got everything I could get. This is a good investment for me. I know 800 dollars is a lot for poor boy's on a limited income but I will take maybe 4 months to pay this off. When I start putting together some great tracks with this I can start my songwriting. I will put together my music first. Then I will put my words and music to my tracks. Start writing my albums. I will listen to The Great American Songbook for some great ideas.

I sing these songs in Second Life Live all of the time. I try and emulate the singers most of the time. Sinatra, Perry Como, Dean Martin, Tony Bennett. I do my best. If I can write songs similar to what these guys have done WOW! But who knows what I will come up with. As I said before one of my first projects is to do something like Sinatra did with Antonio Carlos Jobim with some Bossa Nova flavor to it. That is my hope. I think they have a lot of Bossa Nova with BiaB.

Anyway I will have plenty to work on in 2014. I am sure some of my BiaB productions will be great. I will become a prolific songwriter again after many years of not writing. I will create my own music business. No need to contact any of the Big Shot companies. No need to beg for their acceptance. I am doing my own thing. I will sell some online albums. Even if it is 2 or 3 albums a month I am a winner lol. This is all for my own satisfaction. Sure who knows I might try to submit them to a couple companies for kicks later. But really it is all for my own entertainment!! We are all stars wit BiaB by our side!!

Hi Sly

Congratulations on your purchase. I wish you the very best, and encourage you to be patient and take your time to learn all of the fantastic features that this program suite can provide.

I think we all admire your enthusiasm, and hope you achieve all of your aims.

Welcome to the Band in A Box Club!

Regards
Video Track

I can't find any reference to the audiophile "omnipak" anywhere. Where is that discussed?

OmniPak is shown from the online store page, Click on this Link...

VideoTrack -- that was easy enough! (ha, ha).

But I have to admit, it's tucked away a bit and certainly doesn't jump out at us, like the others do. Maybe it's one of Peter's secrets

Why not retire this post and start a 2014 - "as its happening" one?

Yes, I agree, this thread has followed some very interesting paths. I asked about the same thing a few weeks ago.. Maybe it's time to continue these discussions under an improved / more-relevant topic heading...

It'll only happen if one of the Moderators decides to lock this thread.

Thanks Video Track!! Yes I have a lot of hope for what I will be able to accomplish with this program and all of the Real Tracks. It makes producing some great songs possible for someone like me that isn't rich. Sure to some buying an 800 dollar OMNI-PAK with everything PG Music has to offer means you have to be almost rich lol. But if you have a credit card and can pay 200 a month it will be paid off in no time. I think I will pay about 15 dollars in interest or less to the bank so that isn't much. What I get is a few albums produced over time. I get hundreds of hours of studio musician recordings. And with my ability to write songs and sing pretty good I think I will get some nice original songs produced with this. I have been improving my vocals in the last year singing in Second Life the virtual world. Live performances. You sing at the venues inside that virtual world. I don't sing too much now. I just have a weekly show at Cafe Casablanca now. So anyway I have been singing The Great American Songbook. Sinatra and the rest of them. So learning to at a very high level like that takes time. I do pretty good at emulating him. But who knows how close I am to getting real good. I am at least as good as Sinatra in his final days singing. But he ended up singing when his vocal cords really were not up to it. Very rough. Who knows even at that stage he was probably better than me lol. Anyway I keep working at it. Smoothing things up. Trying to make my vibrato flow without hesitation. No skips. Just relax and sing the notes. So now I can try and produce some tracks songs that can allow me to produce some songs maybe similar to Sinatra, Nat King Cole, Tony Bennett, Harry Connick Jr. I hope this will happen for me. I will do my best and keep working on it. 25 years back I wrote a collection of Country Songs. I came up with a fake country voice that sounded authentic enough. A decent guitar strum. But writing country with basic chords was all I could do. And now that I have this program I hope I can write some songs in the genre that I sing in now. WOW!! At least it makes for a great hobby. I will have my online albums. I hope at least one in 2014. And a few more songs in possibly other styles. In fact I think I will also work on my old country songs. Produce them in BiaB. I know there is a lot of country tracks in it. I also might try to put them into another genre also. See what I can do. But a lot of times country just won't work in other genres. Though Hank Williams Sr songs did. At least the one called Half as Much...Rosemary Clooney really made that sound great and turned it into a standard. I sing that myself with her track. Enough rattling on.

Also I see someone else was interested in the OMNI-PAK. Yes they do need to showcase this deal more. But they just didn't have the room to do it on that download page. They need to add a link where it really showcases it and make a page for that. I did let them know they need to update it to show exactly what you get. And tell us you will get the very latest BiaB with this deal and all of the
files. 2014. I first ordered the 697 dollar Hard Drive Audiophile. Then I saw the OMNI-PAK offer and
that was one of the reason I cancelled. I checked all of the programs that I would be getting with the OMNI deal. A lot of guitar courses, and also some piano. I just bought a new guitar 3 or 4 months ago and don't use it. I thought I would. But I said to myself I should get the OMNI-PAK. Enjoy the Jazz Guitar courses. I want to play some Jazz guitar. Maybe I will buy a keyboard in a year or two and work on the Piano lessons for Jazz also. So this is educational. And they have more programs to offer also. If I bought them alone it might be 300 or 400 dollars who knows. So for an extra 100 dollars in debt I said go for it. This is for your music education. So I say just go for it and buy the 809 dollar total Omni-PAK Audiophile version. Well that price includes the 25 dollar Bonus Files that is offered in the 2014 BiaB deal. I think they made it hard for me to add that to the order. But I got it in the order also. So yes get everything you can. Then next year I might just get the discounted download for being a return customer. I highly doubt I will go for the audiophile. Why not go for the big discount on all of the new files? I just thought I would initially go for the Wav files to have a huge collection of the best they have. Then next year I can get the compressed Real Tracks for cheap and likely be very happy with the quality. I probably will won't even hear the difference. And if I create some songs that are masterpieces then I may say I want to produce these in the highest quality I can for sure. So I could then buy the hard drive with the Wav's at that point.

Someday I will have some real questions for everyone. And also will be learning where I can answer questions I hope also as I learn. I am downloading now. So let me get back to that.

Goodnight and Goodluck!!

Sly

There ya go Mac! 2013.5 just took another turn. ha ha

I think I will wait until my hard drive comes in to really get started. I probably will buy another identical hard drive so I can fully back up what I bought. I don't want this one to go out and I will lose my investment.

Also I know I have been a little type happy around here about my big productions lol. This won't be over night. I will really have to get familiarized with this program before I do anything real great with it. So I am giving myself 6 months to slowly get to know how to use it. I have to take it slow and enjoy the learning. Not expect too much too fast.

I am sure some buy it with big expectations and think they can create some great songs from minute when. And when they can't they try and get a refund. Those few people are weak and will never accomplish anything worth while. I know this program and all of the tracks I bought have the capability of probably more than I think.

For now I am searching online for Videos of people giving some tutorials. I think even if the tutorial is a little old most of the functionality should still be there. I will get back to it now. See what I can learn tonight.

Just a suggestion. You would certainly make PG Music happy by purchasing a second hard drive as a backup, but it's not necessary. You could use any inexpensive USB drive that has sufficient capacity. I like my Toshiba portable drives, but Western Digital and several others make them too.

Another approach is to install from the supplied drive to your hard drive, particularly on a desktop that would normally have larger capacity internal drives. Then you put away the PG Music drive, which becomes your backup.

Hey Finely, hows your trumpet playing? I hope great. I don't mean I will buy the identical drive from PG Music for 700 dollars. Just another drive just like it so I can save all my files to it for backup. I don't have enough room on this pc for all that I ordered. Once I get my drive and have it backed up I can start trying to figure BiaB out. It might take me a good month to get the basic fundamentals down. I hope I will. I have to keep looking for good tutorials. Too bad BiaB doesn't give us a complete Video Tutorial on 2014. It woud really simplify it all. So far I found a couple called Bozos on what I ordered. And Bozo 1 has no video. The second one does. I guess I will get back to reading the help files too. My albums will not be all produced in a month lol. Maybe I will take 2014 just to try and enjoy being part of this community. Like I am in the BiaB University. Enjoy my learning. Don't worry about producing anything yet. Tonight I just imported an mp3 and checked out the chords on The Days Of Wine and Roses. I won't be one of the losers that get depressed because they can't start using it like a pro right from the get go so they want their money back. Those are the people that never have their dreams come true. Let's see if I can figure something out tonight.

I also have a Brazilian Wish. That is my Frychester Virtual Band project. I have the com to that. A site online. If you want to check out my potential album cover. I want that all Brazilian style. Bossa Nova. So that was a good choice your Brazilian wish. I also just registered SlyRuby the domain so I can produce under that name. So at least I do have a couple projects named already. Right now I am reading the help files. Looking at the preferences in BiaB now. Getting familiar. Actually looking at it and saying I likely will never use 9 out of 10 of these settings. Maybe I will when I find out what they all mean. But I am sure using real tracks you wouldn't have to even mess with all of these settings. So I think some people could get a little scared and overwhelmed at first when really they could be making some beautiful music in no time if they just get the fundamentals down. That is what I have to do now so I am back it!! NOW! Listening to the Great American Songbook as I do it. That is good entertainment.

Turns out I was hit with a foreign transaction fee of 24.27. So my total I spend on my BiaB order was actually 833.27 for the OmniPAK WOW. I just tried installing this plugin Amplitube. AVG thought it was a trojan so something it didn't like about that. So I stopped that from installing. But then decided to go for it. But now something went wrong and I can't install it because of that. That Amplitude company IK Multimedia wants a lot of info also. So that thing I sure have to go through some red tape and hassle to run that plugin. I hope to God that all the rest of the OmniPAK isn't like that. I think it is just one bad apple from the start.

Sly, you're a noobie with this stuff, don't make assumptions about things you know nothing about, you will get frustrated and waste a lot of time going down the wrong track to a dead end.

Your "problem" with Amplitube and IKM is simply you having no clue how this stuff works. There's nothing wrong with IKM, it's a very well known and respectable company. Just read the instructions carefully and go step by step. Yes, you have to create an account with them and jump through some hoops. So what? Just do it and welcome to the world of third party music software.

When you get that message from your AV program simply allow it to proceed or disable it completely until you've finished installing everything.

Bob

Since Pat Marr originated this post I think he should make the final entry. Anybody else thinking the same thing?

Yes you are right Jim, and what a fine old thread it has been, kept popping up whilst others have fallen by the wayside.

I guess that Santa is loading up his sleigh with a load of PG hard drives these days and as you say time for Mr Pat Marr to make the final entry and maybe then PG will lock it!...

Come on Pat say your goodbyes to 2013.5!!




Musiclover

I also think that Pat should wait until December 31 to sign off.

For one there is the suspense of will he or won't he. We could start posting guesses or start a poll.

For another this posting has become like an old friend and I'd hate to see it go until it really has to.

Last, once the year 2014 rolls around we can finally admit there is absolutely, positively no chance PG Music will try and sneak a 2013.5 edition out before years end. Who knows, perhaps they're trying to fool us with this 2014 package they've already come out with.

Anybody want to bet if I'm saying all these things just to raise my post count?

No I am no newbie with installing things. I have been building pc's and installing things for years. After AVG gave me a Trojan note for Amplitude I stopped it. But then decided it was likely a false alarm because I highly doubt that PG Music would associate themselves with a company that would do that. So I tried again and not it just won't install. So you can try to paint me up as a newbie if you want. But that isn't the case. Sure I am for the functionality of BiaB. But not simply installing something. It would be nice if Amplitude didn't open up AVG and say it has a trojan though. That is what caused this in the first place. My fear of that. Irrespective it AVG was wrong. AVG is very popular. So I wonder what it is detecting that it just doesn't like.

I don't like all the sign ups that I have to do for that. You can like it. It is my choice. You go through your hoops. I will go through mine. You love hoops. I may not. This is my choice. In my opinion if they had less hoops and had some kind of a link for us to casually go to their site fine. But I though I bought Amplitude with OmniPAK? I would like to own that program free and clear without all that red tape. Maybe you work for that company who knows. That may be a great plugin. We will see if it will ever be installed if I can get the remnants of the initial installing out of my pc.

Sly
Newbie at Biab No Newbie on the pc and installations that is for sure

Also what assumptions have I made? I just tell the truth. Sounds like you have some assumptions on me to be honest. Painting me up as a complete idiot newbie lol. Ok since you are such a genius and I am so stupid. Here it is. I just tried installing it again. I let AVG my virus protection let it go through when it tried to block it again. Herei s what it now says when trying to install the Authorization manager of the Aplitube3

An error occurred while trying to rename a file in the destination directory MoveFile faied, code 5.
Access denied.

Maybe I can get rid of the folders remnants from the last install after a reboot who knows. I hope you have the great expertise needed to guide my way to success here. I will be waiting for your reply

Sly, any chance you installed either BIAB or any plugins to the /Program Files folder (either one, if you have a 64-bit Windows). We have had problems reported that sound similar to the error you describe.

By all means, reboot and check again, though.

I believe it is the x86 folder. Bye the way I reboot and now I am trying it again. AVG Detection with gives me IDP.Trojan.60DB3C59 installing the IK Multimedia products. Maybe I will be called names because of this. At any rate it doesn't look pretty. Time will tell after I research it. It could be harmless as a flea.

Thanks Finely!

I finally have it Matt. Amplitude is installed now after I got rid of the conflict. Though now I have to research this Trojan that was installed. Maybe I can uninstall it now and still keep Amplitude. That seems like a nice plugin from what I saw on a video on youtube of it. I just don't like all the things I need to install and my AVG popping up with a threat of a Trojan. I named it on a previous page. Not sure what it is. I don't know why a legitimate company would have a file in their program. Very odd.

It may not be the fault of Amplitude; false positives can occur with virus checkers.

Regardless of the virus checker you use, you can always run Malwarebytes as a stand-alone program every so often. That's the one that does the best job for me of catching most of the malware I get now and then.

I am sure it is superficial in some way. I know PG Music is on the up and up and wouldn't deal with a company that is shady. I did delete that authorization file I think they called a Trojan. My last scan showed no trouble. Also I will try and take the high road if I feel insulted by anyone. I just want good times talking BiaB here on this forum. Now let me go put a question up. Thanks again!!

Sly, this is just a forum, it's difficult to qualify everything. I meant you were a noobie at DIGITAL AUDIO. I can't even guess how many true for real computer and IT pros have come through here knowing they were pros and thinking they should have no problem with this stuff.

Wrong.

The problem is what we're doing here represents maybe 2-3% of the computer buying public so there is NO support at all from either MS or the different computer makers. You can go to a Fry's or Best Buy right now and ask one of the clerks about your audio midi interface and how you're having a problem with ASIO and getting it to talk to Biab and you'll just get a blank stare. They have no clue what you're talking about so you're stuck with us idiots here.

We're all on our own with this stuff that's all. Not trying to insult you or anything it's just we've all seen it before. Digital audio is a whole different world from regular PC stuff and most importantly it has it's own language that you have to learn. This stuff is all developed by small third party companies with zero support from MS or anybody else. They're on their own too.

Look at Mac's sig and see the link to his Audiominds website. Go there and click on the Getting Started button in the upper left. There's some great articles there going into all of this using the proper terms and language.

Bob

I have nothing to add. I just thought I would retire my first 9,999 posts in this old thread.

Likely just a False Positive, it happens.

But you are correct, IMO, to take heed of such warnings until such time as they can be proven to be okay, IMO.

Amplitube is a wonderful addition, works fine and stable here for the past few years with BB and RB, it isn't PGMusic that does the Authorization Dance that is needed on the thing, that is a function of IK Multimedia, a separate company. Therefore, I think that any questions concerning Authorization problems that are outside of the general installation directions would likely be better taken up with IK Multimedia.

The only stupid question is the one left un-asked.

Some around here mean well but maybe lack a bit of graciousness when trying to help, and there is also that prosody thing, where the written word can take on a life and meaning of its own without being able to here the spoken inflection or see the speaker's body language...

I get caught up in it from time to time as well.

Don't let anybody steal your joy.


--Mac

Well said Mac.

I'm here for fun, to learn and perhaps share some of what I do learn with other forum members.

Sly, you're not the first contributor to feel a little hot under the collar from a comment or two. I've also felt that way. But I honestly don't think any contributor is trying to be mean or spiteful. Many contributors have known other contributors for years and can tell when there is some joking taking place. I am a newer member and don't have a history with other contributors so sometimes I either come across wrong or take what is said in return incorrectly.

I hope I will have a better feel of the other contributors personality and they mine over time. Until then I'll continue to use emoticons if I think there is a chance I might be misunderstood when I am just joking about something.