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Posted By: Wallyg Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/06/13 05:24 PM
My first post. I've never used Band In a Box, but it looks interesting from the videos I've seen. I already have a Roland BK-7m backing module and also use Sonar X3 for custom backing sounds.

East Coast Music has BIAB 2013 Audiophile Edition marked down from $669 to $459.99. I assume this is due to the pending release of the 2014 version.

Questions:
Should I wait for the 2014 version or buy the 2013 and pay an upgrade when 2014 is released?

What is the typical upgrade cost for the Audiophile Edition?

Appreciate any helpful comments.

Wally G

Posted By: DrDan Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/06/13 05:38 PM
wait...
First, there's no indication whatsoever that there will be a 2014 version. We were all expecting a mid year 2013.5 version but it didn't happen even though there've been mid year releases for the last 5 or 6 years.

The history has been a new release every Xmas for basically every year since day one so you would think it's a good bet there will be one shortly but still, no announcement of any kind.

If there is one it should be announced around the last week of November. They like to have it available about 30 days before Xmas.

Normally what happens is if a new customer buys the old version within 30 days of a new version being announced then the upgrade is free. That's just the upgrade for the program itself, not for any brand new Real Tracks/Drums. That should mean you can buy the 2013 version now and be protected if they announce 2014 in a couple of weeks.

If you're serious then call Sales and they'll tell you how that should work and if somebody tells you there's a new version coming, please come back here and tell the rest of us...

Bob
Bob has good advice, but may I offer one clarification: there have been a few years where the program was not released until well into the first week of December.
Posted By: Wallyg Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/06/13 07:06 PM
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
First, there's no indication whatsoever that there will be a 2014 version. We were all expecting a mid year 2013.5 version but it didn't happen even though there've been mid year releases for the last 5 or 6 years.

The history has been a new release every Xmas for basically every year since day one so you would think it's a good bet there will be one shortly but still, no announcement of any kind.

If there is one it should be announced around the last week of November. They like to have it available about 30 days before Xmas.

Normally what happens is if a new customer buys the old version within 30 days of a new version being announced then the upgrade is free. That's just the upgrade for the program itself, not for any brand new Real Tracks/Drums. That should mean you can buy the 2013 version now and be protected if they announce 2014 in a couple of weeks.

If you're serious then call Sales and they'll tell you how that should work and if somebody tells you there's a new version coming, please come back here and tell the rest of us...

Bob


Thanks Bob,

I did as you suggested and called Sales. Here's the skinny:

Yes historically they come out with a new "yearly" version around December. No announcement date yet. She suggested I (as Jazzmandan stated) "wait". I could order the 2013 version and when the 2014 version came out I could upgrade, but I would have to ship the 2013 BIAB on a hard drive back to them, and the shipping costs, upgrade cost, my time etc. would not be worth it.

I guess the bottom line is: There will be a 2014 release, otherwise she would have told me to get the 2013 product so they wouldn't lose a sale...

Thanks for the help.

Wally G
Posted By: Del3535 Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/06/13 07:57 PM
Thanks Wallyg....

I am also a "newbie" (wanting to get into BIAB) as you are and am trying to calculate what way to go; buy and older 2013 or wait for the newer 2014.

After contacting BIAB sales they basically told me the same thing..... Wait.

Thanks for confirming ....
Posted By: DrDan Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/06/13 08:20 PM
I get one right every once in a while.
Posted By: Mac Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/06/13 08:41 PM
Originally Posted By: Wallyg

I guess the bottom line is: There will be a 2014 release, otherwise she would have told me to get the 2013 product so they wouldn't lose a sale...


Take a second and think about how many other sales outfits you know that would make that statement.

The PGMusic way is exemplary.


--Mac
Posted By: Wallyg Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/06/13 09:21 PM
Originally Posted By: Mac
Originally Posted By: Wallyg

I guess the bottom line is: There will be a 2014 release, otherwise she would have told me to get the 2013 product so they wouldn't lose a sale...


Take a second and think about how many other sales outfits you know that would make that statement.

The PGMusic way is exemplary.


--Mac


I agree. If their product is as good as their customer support, I'm looking forward to using BIAB!

Wally G
Posted By: BarryKJ Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/07/13 03:00 PM
No 2013.5 release...no updates since January 2013 for the Windows version...no new anythings....
I'm guessing something big is coming - maybe the much requested new interface, or 8 beats per measure, or some other major change. I'd wait a month on 2013 and then if nothing new is released pull the trigger and go for 2013. A great program.
Oh yeah Barry, there's been rampant speculation about that some of it from me. Did you not see my somewhat tongue in cheek suggestion to create two versions, one a Classic version and the other an Awesome Cool Dude version in my post in the other thread? Gimme that ACD right now!

Good info Wally, I didn't know they would require you to send your HD back for the upgrade I thought they would just send you upgrade links that you d/l and install to the existing drive.

Bob
I like the concept of returning the hard drive for a rewrite, or at least have that be one of the purchasing choices (perhaps at a reduced price?).
I am in the same boat as to whether or not to buy now or wait. It's trickier for me as I live in Turkey and would have to pop over to the UK to pick it up. I am going anyway this winter but was planning on going in the next couple of weeks. However with nothing booked can put it off a few weeks.
Whilst I am sure that the current version is more than sufficient for my needs, if as is surmised above the new version will have a more user friendly interface and therefore a shorter learning curve it would well be worth the disruption to my plans.
Cheers Steve
Posted By: Mac Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/07/13 10:01 PM
I'm thinking that the return of hard drive thing has only to do with the much larger sized Audiophile version.

Wouldn't want to be downloading that anyway.


--Mac
Good thought. I even have some older BIAB audiophile drives that were far larger, before the Elastique algorithm reduced the size of the files to about one-third previous.
Wallyg,

1st of all welcome to just maybe the best forum on the net, Now re: to wait or not to wait . . . I am thinking (and that in itself could lead to a problem)we are just a few weeks away and I am a patient guy (when it comes to music anyway) so I would most definitely wait a few weeks.

Later,
Originally Posted By: Wallyg
I could order the 2013 version and when the 2014 version came out I could upgrade, but I would have to ship the 2013 BIAB on a hard drive back to them, and the shipping costs, upgrade cost, my time etc. would not be worth it.


I have never heard of this, OR had to do it in all the times I have updated BiaB!

Do you have to do this if you UPGRADE and not just UPDATE? Like if I went from the Reg to Audiophile version? Or would this apply to just the Audiophile Version & it's large files?

Surely a PGM employee can at least answer THIS question, as it seems over the top to have to incur extra expense after paying $$$ for the software in the first place...
Posted By: Mac Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/08/13 07:46 PM
I'm not a PGMusic employee, but I'm 100 percent certain that you will not be required to ever return the hard drive on any non-Audiophile version of BB, even if you decide to go for switching to the Audiophile version.


--Mac
And the same has been true for audiophile hard drives. This is why I have so many of them. eek

Someone suggested the idea, and I would be willing to do an exchange by shipping, but it is not the way it has been done so far.
Posted By: Mac Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/08/13 11:44 PM
Yes, Matt, I agree.

I'm thinking tha what may have made the difference in this particular case is the idea of buying the present version so close to release and then wanting to take advantage of a free upgrade to the newest version.

Think about it, in that scenario, pgmusic would be out two of the more expensive hard drives plus twice the amount of much longer time it takes to load and prepare the Audiophile drives.


--Mac
Makes sense folks, Thanks for the replies!
Posted By: Wallyg Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/09/13 04:08 PM
Originally Posted By: jcspro40
Originally Posted By: Wallyg
I could order the 2013 version and when the 2014 version came out I could upgrade, but I would have to ship the 2013 BIAB on a hard drive back to them, and the shipping costs, upgrade cost, my time etc. would not be worth it.


I have never heard of this, OR had to do it in all the times I have updated BiaB!

Do you have to do this if you UPGRADE and not just UPDATE? Like if I went from the Reg to Audiophile version? Or would this apply to just the Audiophile Version & it's large files?

Surely a PGM employee can at least answer THIS question, as it seems over the top to have to incur extra expense after paying $$$ for the software in the first place...



Originally Posted By: Mac
I'm not a PGMusic employee, but I'm 100 percent certain that you will not be required to ever return the hard drive on any non-Audiophile version of BB, even if you decide to go for switching to the Audiophile version.


--Mac


When I talked to PGmusic sales I explained that I was interested in purchasing 2013 BIAB Audiophile, but was concerned that they might be coming out soon with a 2014 Audiophile. She stated w/o giving any release dates that PGM usually comes out with an updated version in December. If I purchased the 2013 version of Audiophile and wanted the 2014 version when it was released, I would HAVE to send the old drive in plus additional funds for the newer version. I used the word "Upgrade" in my orginal post and should have used "Update". Just stating what sales told me.

I have enough backing media for now with Roland's BK-7m and a DAW (Sonar X3) so I'm not chomping at the bits to get BIAB. If PGM makes major changes to the interface, the time spent learning the "old" version would be waisted.

Wally G
I didn't think about the fact you're asking about the Audiophile version. Those files are much larger than the regular ones. The standard RT sets are about 200-400 megs in size so PG can provide links for those that you download and install but the Audiophile ones must be many gigs in size and would be too much to try to download.

Have you really thought about if you need the Audiophile version or not? The standard files are really good, that's what all the demo songs are and they sound great.

Bob
Posted By: Wallyg Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/09/13 11:28 PM
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
I didn't think about the fact you're asking about the Audiophile version. Those files are much larger than the regular ones. The standard RT sets are about 200-400 megs in size so PG can provide links for those that you download and install but the Audiophile ones must be many gigs in size and would be too much to try to download.

Have you really thought about if you need the Audiophile version or not? The standard files are really good, that's what all the demo songs are and they sound great.

Bob


Bob,

Quite honestly I don't know what I need! Music right now is my main hobby. I had a weekend band that I started when I was 11 that traveled from Maine to Florida for 40 years. (This is in addition to my main job as an Electronic Design Engineer). I retired from the band 17 years ago and took up flying. (cheap hobby...)I sold the plane last March and got back into music. It'a mainly for myself and my wife's enjoyment. My signature tells you the instruments I play.

As I stated earlied I have a Roland BK-7m backing module for quick turnaround of backing tracks (almost instant), and a DAW that I can turn out custom sounds. (Just finished a 20 piece big band arrangement of green eyes that took about a month of spare time to complete...). Will BIAB do a lot more than the BK-7m? Not sure...

I'm 69 (sorry that this is long story) and still doing design work with my consulting company. (My second main hobby). This gives me extra money for my music hobby.

I can probably get the tricked out Band In a Box Audiophile for about 0.5 Music Hobby units, (One Music Hobby Unit equals $1000.00) so it's not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things.

What got me interested in BIAB is some songs that had fiddles in it. I need this for some of my songs.

I appreciate your inputs and anyone else that can chime in.

Wally G

Posted By: Mac Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/09/13 11:38 PM
Wallyg,


Click on over to the User Showcase Forum and listen to some of the song offerings there.

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=50&page=1

Posted by regular users and I'd venture to say that the greater majority were done using the standard RealTracks and RealDrums.

Find out for yourself about how they sound.

On top of that, consider seriously the PGMusic 30-day No Questions Asked Return Policy.

That policy has been a standard part of the PGMusic sales for a long, long time.

What it means is that you could purchase the standard RealTracks set, have it for up to 29 days, use it, listen to it, and if you then decide you don't want it, you can still return it.

AND - It is like having a full-featured DEMO of the entire program, as it will be when you keep and own it, able to Save and Export anything you create during that period of time.

Hard to go wrong. Matter of fact, ya can't go wrong actually.


--Mac
I am wondering if the 2014 version is so different that you can't just download an update this time around. Course some of "da folks" here know more than the rest do as they are most likely beta testing at this time.

Not fishin' for info just stating thoughts. You beta guys do a great job keeping things close to the vest. Just as the company would want.
interesting I have #600 post give or take, and mac has 36,000!

Know what that means?!?

He is 10 times smarter than me when it comes to PG music stuff
Posted By: Mac Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/10/13 03:11 PM
Originally Posted By: Robh


Know what that means?!?

He is 10 times smarter than me when it comes to PG music stuff


I call Bad Analysis of a Statistic.

All that data would prove is that Mac posted a whole lotta times.

Quote:

From the Ashley-Perry Statistical Axioms:

The product of an arithmetical computation is the answer to an equation; it is not the solution to a problem.


In this particular instance, we would have to tabulate all of Mac's posts and answers first, then correlate those to the amount of actual solutions to problems due to Mac's advice.

Some answers I get right, others I get wrong.

Fortunately for forum posters who have problems to solve, we aren't in a situation where Mac's advice and answers are the *only* inputs. These forums represent the cumulative inputs from quite a few other users of the fine PGMusic softwares, too.

And I wouldn't have it any other way.


--Mac
Since i do not fully understand what you just wrote, i rest my case! ;-)
Wally, you and I are almost the same age and I too traveled all over the place as a musician in a previous life.

I have a Korg Pa1XPro arranger keyboard and am very familiar with arrangers including your Roland BK-7. Your Roland is very nice although not as good as their flagship G70 keyboard. That thing is a beast but at around three G's it better be.

The big difference between Biab and an arranger is the arranger is instant. Turn it on and start playing and it will give you some nice backing tracks right now. The downside is no matter how good they are they're limited. For each style you have a couple of intro's maybe four variations and a couple of endings and I can get a drum fill by pushing a button. After some time though they sound the same over and over unless you're good at creating your own styles.

Biab is completely different. It's called intelligent because you have to enter the chords and set up your song structure first then hit play. Biab then analyzes all that and comes up with an arrangement. It doesn't depend on your playing for the exact chords it will decide what chord voicings to use based on the style. That can be good or bad depending on how picky you are. Some complain a lot that they can't input exact chord voicings. All I can say is that's not how Biab is designed to work and leave it at that. With my Korg I can play pretty much any voicing and I will still get the appropriate backing tracks. That's a big advantage sometimes. The other big advantage is live playing. I can do what I want with a tune on my Korg. The backing tracks are automatic and it will dumbly follow whatever I do. I can change keys, vamp a verse, extend a solo, segue into something else, whatever. Biab can't do that it has to be preprogrammed ahead of time.

Biab oth has the Real Tracks/Drums. All the arrangers and your Roland are using midi to trigger their internal synths. They sound pretty good but are not even on the same planet as the RT's. The RT's are like having a studio player right there with you. The bad news there is you can't tell him exactly what to play because his parts are prerecorded but still they sound so good that most of us don't care. You can still mix the RT's with a few midi tracks to get certain parts exactly how you want them.

I could write a book about this but at least this might help you a bit with the differences between using your Roland and Biab.

From what I'm reading you don't need the Audiophile tracks. Just get the regular ones and if you think they're lacking use the 30 day return policy and upgrade to the Audiophile.

Bob
I don't think it would make great sense to buy 13 now so near the release date of biab 2014.

Just hoping there the new upgrade will have the features for windows 32 bit as well, and we are not just lumbered with the old biab 13 (with new realtracks) whereas everyone else gets a 64 bit copy.

Musiclover
Posted By: Wallyg Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/11/13 03:49 PM
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Wally, you and I are almost the same age and I too traveled all over the place as a musician in a previous life.

I have a Korg Pa1XPro arranger keyboard and am very familiar with arrangers including your Roland BK-7. Your Roland is very nice although not as good as their flagship G70 keyboard. That thing is a beast but at around three G's it better be.

The big difference between Biab and an arranger is the arranger is instant. Turn it on and start playing and it will give you some nice backing tracks right now. The downside is no matter how good they are they're limited. For each style you have a couple of intro's maybe four variations and a couple of endings and I can get a drum fill by pushing a button. After some time though they sound the same over and over unless you're good at creating your own styles.

Biab is completely different. It's called intelligent because you have to enter the chords and set up your song structure first then hit play. Biab then analyzes all that and comes up with an arrangement. It doesn't depend on your playing for the exact chords it will decide what chord voicings to use based on the style. That can be good or bad depending on how picky you are. Some complain a lot that they can't input exact chord voicings. All I can say is that's not how Biab is designed to work and leave it at that. With my Korg I can play pretty much any voicing and I will still get the appropriate backing tracks. That's a big advantage sometimes. The other big advantage is live playing. I can do what I want with a tune on my Korg. The backing tracks are automatic and it will dumbly follow whatever I do. I can change keys, vamp a verse, extend a solo, segue into something else, whatever. Biab can't do that it has to be preprogrammed ahead of time.

Biab oth has the Real Tracks/Drums. All the arrangers and your Roland are using midi to trigger their internal synths. They sound pretty good but are not even on the same planet as the RT's. The RT's are like having a studio player right there with you. The bad news there is you can't tell him exactly what to play because his parts are prerecorded but still they sound so good that most of us don't care. You can still mix the RT's with a few midi tracks to get certain parts exactly how you want them.

I could write a book about this but at least this might help you a bit with the differences between using your Roland and Biab.

From what I'm reading you don't need the Audiophile tracks. Just get the regular ones and if you think they're lacking use the 30 day return policy and upgrade to the Audiophile.

Bob


Bob,

It takes some effort and time to type your post and I greatly appreciate it! I will wait for BIAB 2014 and in the mean time do some more research into the different packages including getting more info from this forum.

Thanks again for you help!

Walt
Originally Posted By: musiclover
I don't think it would make great sense to buy 13 now so near the release date of biab 2014.

Musiclover


So, there's actually been a release date?
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack

So, there's actually been a release date?

No.
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Originally Posted By: musiclover
I don't think it would make great sense to buy 13 now so near the release date of biab 2014.

Musiclover


So, there's actually been a release date?


I think Videotrack that you have been long enough on the forums to realise and to know by now how PG music works as regards release dates and how there is no prior warning until the actual announcement appears on the PG website.

Saying that even the dogs on the street know that the next years version will always appear early to mid December.

Musiclover
Originally Posted By: musiclover
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Originally Posted By: musiclover
I don't think it would make great sense to buy 13 now so near the release date of biab 2014.

Musiclover


So, there's actually been a release date?


I think Videotrack that you have been long enough on the forums to realise and to know by now how PG music works as regards release dates and how there is no prior warning until the actual announcement appears on the PG website.

Saying that even the dogs on the street know that the next years version will always appear early to mid December.

Musiclover


Hi MusicLover, thanks for your comments.
I've been using Band In A Box since 1992. 21 years or so. Yep, we all hope that there will be a 2104 release before Xmas, but I just got the impression from your earlier comment that a release date must have been announced, and was seeking to confirm if that was fact, as I'd missed any formal statement. Matt confirmed that this was not so (and he would definitely know...). Let's all continue to hope of an early to mid December date.
Kind regards
VideoTrack
Given that we broke the longstanding pattern by having no mid-year release, my dog is reluctant to draw any conclusions. And I don't even have a dog.
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Given that we broke the longstanding pattern by having no mid-year release, my dog is reluctant to draw any conclusions. And I don't even have a dog.


Got to admire the way that PG music have all these beta testers trained, not allowed even to own a dog in case it divulges any info smile

Speaking of dogs isn't it strange how some react to music, I have seen some who wail when any music starts, it it annoying to them I wonder?

Musiclover
We can recap what we do know, that two users (Wally and Del) reported here that PG Music advised them to wait to make a new purchase, and confirmed that in the past new versions are released in December. That's all we know (the known knowns).
Posted By: Ryszard Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/12/13 12:57 PM
Originally Posted By: musiclover
. . . Got to admire the way that PG music have all these beta testers trained, not allowed even to own a dog in case it divulges any info smile

Musiclover


You could have a dog, but it would have to kill you. >:-)>
Posted By: LtKojak Re: Buy BIAB 2013 now, or wait for BIAB 2014 - 11/13/13 07:13 AM
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
(the known knowns).


Don't you hate it when you don't know what you don't know? wink
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