How-do, folks! I hope everything's on the "up-and-up" for everyone. I have a question about what seems to be peculiar behavior concerning a soloist.

The song I'm working on is a medium-tempo bossa (125 bpm) using _BOSSAN.STY. The song has a 32-bar electric guitar solo (#707, Guitar, Electric, Soloist Bossa Ev 140,Bluesy variation, Oliver Gannon) and a 32-bar organ solo (#1659, Organ, Soloist Bossa Ev. 140, Bluesy, Mike LeDonne).

To keep each solo on a separate track, in the synth window I loaded the guitar solo into the "soloist" patch and the organ solo in the "strings" patch.

The guitar solo on the "soloist" patch plays just fine, but for some reason the organ solo on the "strings" patch plays back in double-time. I have made sure to un-check the "Double-time" button in the "Select Soloist" window, but it doesn't make any difference.

Now, when I put the organ solo in the "soloist" patch, it does not playback in double-time. It only does that on the "strings" patch. I never saved the song with the patches.

I shut-down the program and came back to the song on another day and the organ solo on the "strings" patch was still hurls double-time lines at me. May I rent your brain-power to help me solve this funny problem?

Hi Bluage,

I suspect that the double-time button you are referring to is the one that works for MIDI (as far as I know) and not RTs.

Try the following. It may well be how you are doing things but if you can be patient and follow what I have below step by step it will help narrow the problem down.

Firstly load the #1659 (organ soloist) into the String track using the following method.

1. Right-click on "Strings" (#1) and then select "Assign Realtracks" (#2).




2. When in the Realtrack Picker, click on the “#” column heading (#1) as this will sort the column numerically and make it easy to find RT #1659. Find the RT, single click on it to select it then doublecheck that the timebase is set to “Normal Time” (#2 on the image below).




3. Now “Close” the Realtrack picker using the “Close” button shown below.




4. Generate the song and let us know what happens.

Hope this helps,
Noel


P.S. The soloist will now play through the whole song. To mute it except for the 32 bars you wish it to play, use Bar settings (F5).

Hello, "Noel96"...

I'm glad to hear from you again. It's amazing that you are able to produce your own music while helping out the multitudes on this forum.

Well, unfortunately, that organ solo still sounds like the Phantom of the Opera got stoned, went to a jazz club and "flipped his wig!" It's really rather funny to hear. If I could talk as fast as the organist is being played back, I'd become a rapper.

Thank you for your incredibly easy-to-follow instructions!

Most sincerely,

bluage

Hi bluage,

That's very strange. RT #1659 sounds the same on my system whichever track I put it on.

Does the solo guitar (#707) sound ok on the String track? If so, I'd be switching the Guitar with the Organ.

I have say that I'm pretty puzzled by the fact that the Organ is fine on one track and not fine on another. It's possible that something has locked into place with the file.

To try and unlock it ...

Try going through the steps in my above post but when you get to point 3 in the post, try setting the "Timebase" to Double Time (instead of Normal Time).

Close the window and generate the song. Does it sound different?

Now try going to the Realtrack Picker again following the steps in the above post and then try resetting it back to Normal Time. Close. Regenerate.

How does this sound?

One last thought, is the String track frozen by any chance? (It will have an asterisk beside "String" if it's frozen.)

Regards,
Noel

Hello, Noel...

Please accept my apology for not getting on-line yesterday. To answer your questions...

1) Yes, the #707 electric guitar solo sounds as fine on the string track as it sounded on the soloist patch.

2) I followed your instructions to re-assign the organ to the strings patch and I set the "timebase" to double-time rather than normal time. There was a subtle change in the number of bars that had all those clusters of beamed sixteenth notes. It seemed there were not so many of them.

I'm thinking that maybe what's really going on is my perception of what sounds "wrong" about the organ. It appears to me that in those bars where so many notes are being played that it just sounds too fast. However, if that is any indication of Mike LeDonne's skill at playing the organ, then my hat is way, way off to him!

3) I went back into the Real Tracks picker and set the timebase back to normal time. Pretty much the same as double-time.

4) No, the strings patch is not frozen, nor are any of the other patches.

As I said above, maybe I have to re-adjust my expectations. If I decide that the playback is just too much for me, I'll do what I have done in the past to resolve a seemingly intractable problem, which is to reset the program to "factory settings" and see what happens.

I'll let you know. Thank you again for taking your precious time to assist me, Noel!

Sincerely,

bluage

...Forgot to tell you, your song, "Sunny Side of Life" is de-light-ful and uplifting. "Swings like a champ, too!

- bluage -

As an old hand at playing the Hammond Organ in various different genres, I don't think this is a "problem" with the program, more likely a problem with what the user has selected and for what purpose.

Jazz Organ soloist is typically going to play a lot of fast single notes.

Perhaps selecting another organ realtrack, one in which there is more of a "pad" being played, sustained and few notes, would be appropriate.

Not all organ is the same.

There's the Jazz Organ Solo style, there's the Jazz Organ Comping style, there's the Gospel Organ Styles, Pop Organ, Rock Organ, Hard Rock Organ, even (gasp!) Theater Organ among the many different ways to voice and play the Tonewheel Organs.

If the song is not of the "straight ahead" jazz style and feel, LeDonne's soloing, and even his style of comping, likely is not the proper choice for it.


--Mac

Howdy, "Mac"...

You know, this software, Band-in-a-Box, has such a vast range of creative options that sometimes I can't see the "trees for the forest", if I may put a spin on that famous saying.

You're right about exploring other options, and I will, though I'll regret possibly having to leave Mr. LeDonne's soloing behind because except for those high-octane riffs and runs, everything else about his soloing is right for the song.

I am consciously attempting to emulate the sound that Wes Montgomery achieved on his "Boss Guitar" album that featured Melvin Rhyne's organ soloing. Because the RT style I am using -- _BOSSAN.STY -- has an even 8ths feel, the few organ soloing options available in that category were all by Mr. LeDonne.

Anyway, I'll go through the RT options again and look for other soloists that have the even 8ths feel. However, I am going to try one more thing.

While viewing the notation during the organ solo playback, I will note which bars have all those blazing runs. And then, in the bar setting options, I will slow down the tempo only in those bars and listen to what happens. I'll let you know how it went...


"Mac", thank you for your eloquent and illuminating response to my post!

Hah! I forgot that tempo changes affect the entire song!

I think I will do what Noel suggested, which was to put the guitarist on the strings patch, and the organist on the soloist patch and see if that works.

What's funny about all this is that when I put both the guitarist AND the organ on the soloist patch, the organ solo plays back with measured statements and only a few bars of double-time riffs.

- bluage -

You might also consider trasnferring the project to RealBand, where the whole thing gets laid out along one timeline, no repeats - and you can highlight a specific number of bars of any RealTrack such as that organ track and regenerate just that area. You might be able to force simpler playing in those bars, using the same organ solo realtrack.

Melvin Rhyne played dead in the Jimmy Smith tradition for both his comping and soloing. LeDonne is his own solo style that, though it "stands on the shoulders" of Jimmy's seminal style (there ain't a jazz hamnmond player alive who doesn't...) it isn't quite that same bluesy situation at all. Jimmy - and Melvin - leaned heavily on the Tritones and tritone subs for the comping of 7 chords, when it comes to the soloing, the Pentatonic scales are at the root of it, interspersed with Melodic minor riffs and to a certain extent, sometimes even pieces of the diminished scale.

You might look into some of the MIDI organ styles that feature the Jimmy Smith style of playing for this project, with a great sounding MIDI synth with food Jazz Organ patch that features the first three or even four drawbars pulled all the way and not much else, especially no Percuassion clicks at each note beginning, it would likely do what you want with much less fussing about.


--Mac

Hi, "Mac"...

Here I am, late again. I'm sorry. I manage residential properties so I have no true "off" time, which makes going on-line problematic sometimes.

I tried out Noel's suggestion about putting the organ in the soloist patch, and the guitar in the strings patch, so everything's okay, now.

Nonetheless, your suggestion about selecting a Jimmy Smith-style MIDI soloist and patching it with a synth is insipiring, as I have Native Instruments' Hammond B4 II sampler that I don't use much.

You seem very well-versed in music theory. Are you, or were you a performer, or a teacher?

As usual, I'm grateful for your generous attention to this thread.

- bluage -

I wear both hats, in music, teaching is learning.

I'm also a retired EE design engineer.


Have Fun,


--Mac

Hi, "Mac"...

"EE" means electrical engineer?

- bluage -

yessir

"Mac"...

Thanks for responding.

I am learning music theory "later in life", so to speak. I've been using BIAB to compose songs (mostly "jazz") by playing and entering chords on the chordsheet window using my "ear" to determine what sounds "right". My one and only post to the "Users Showcase" is "Goodbye, Cabrini Green."

Composing songs and figuring out chord progressions by ear requires an immense of trial and error, but I find it exhilarating, truly, but the fact of the matter is that I'm doing nothing but guessing and getting lucky, at least when everything goes well.

If I asked you to advise me on what books I could read to instruct me in explaining and applying music theory, what would you recommend?

Currently, I'm learning how to design chord progressions by way of a workbook titled, "The Chord Wheel: The Ultimate Tool for All Musicians," created by a man named Jim Fleser.

"Mac", thank you.

- bluage -

What is your main instrument?

Hi, "Mac"...

Your question made me laugh out loud! My "instrument" is the five fingers on my right hand.

What I mean is, I haven't learned to play any instrument but my MIDI keyboard, which I play with my right hand, mostly. That's how I get the melodies to my songs into BIAB. I really did get a late start becoming involved with music.

Thanks for asking.

- bluage -

Then your main instrument is the piano keyboard.

Go to youtube and use the Search slot there to find some of the many FREE 'jazz piano tutorials' 'jazz piano lessons' available there.

Good stuff from beginner to advanced to be found there.


--Mac

"Mac"...

Thank you very much, sir!

- bluage -