Is the Coyote Forte DXi soft synth the best one I can get for BIAB 2015?

I'm running Windows 7 64bit on my desktop, and 8.1 64bit on my laptop.

I'd like it to run on both computers.

Any suggestions would be appreciated...

"The best" is a tough one to describe. Best for what?

Lots of folks like the Coyote Forte DXi for its sound in a number of instruments and it is very affordable.

You can get much better sounds, but you'll have to spend more than $40.

Forte used to come with BIAB as a 30-day trial. I don't know if it still does (I'm not at my music computer, so I can't check). You might want to look for the EXE file installer and see; if so, you can always install it and try it out for 30 days to decide whether you want to purchase it or not.

Other folks also like using the Cakewalk TTS-1 ($39), so in the same range, but you get that by buying Cakewalk Music Creator (you really get the Music Creator DAW with the TTS-1 included).

Or if you already have Sonar, you probably already have TTS-1.

The Coyote WS that installs with BIAB is not the same as Forte. It is merely a wrapper for the MIDI sounds that are included in Windows already (and doesn't sound very good).

So I would say that those are probably the best in the $40 range.

You can also go free by getting a free soundfont VSTi (such as Synthfont) and using a good free GM soundfont file, readily available on the internet.

Or you can spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars for softsynths which much more realistic sounds (but generally not GM, so it's not just plug and play for MIDI - you have to specify each instrument within the softsynth for each MIDI track).

Others will chime in, I'm sure.

Thanks for the advice. This is exactly what I'm looking for.

Now, how 'bout an upgrade? A good soft synth for up to $100 that's plug and play (GM) and will work with Windows 7/8 64 bit.

I don't want to assign stuff. Plug and play GM up to $100 or so.

Bob :-)

Bob, IMO you have two good options. TTS-1 is one of the better GM softsynths. The free soundfont player(s) and GM soundfonts that John also mentioned are as good as if not better than many of those purchased for $100 or less. One great features about soundfonts is that if there is one in your set that you don't like you can easily replace it. With a little work you can have things like 5 different trumpets, 3 different violins etc that you can use. There are a lot of options. Soundfonts are Ok but they are old technology, much like the GM VSTis and ST2 that is shipped with BiaB. They are usable but not the best in the world of MIDI.

But if you want really good MIDI sounds you have to purchase better sound sources and assign them. Assigning them is not a big issue but that is better done in a DAW like RealBand, Sonar etc IMHO.

We've all wanted that for years. Doesn't exist but there are workarounds like Sampletank with the Omnisynth library. ST is free and Omnisynth goes on sale a couple times a year for $10 but it's not simply plug and play inside Biab. However there are instructions how to make it work in the Tips and Tricks forum.

The thing is none of the softsynth companies cares one bit about GM sounds. GM isn't considered pro, it's not even semi-pro. GM is basically for sending generic midi files over the internet so your friend can play them. For us Biab uses though it's very convenient.

Bob

If you don't mind loading a good sound font, by all means look into CoolSoft Virtual Midi Synth. It is free and I have been using it for a few years now on both BIAB and TablEdit in order to get better MIDI sounds. It runs just fine under both x86 and x64 versions of windows XP, 7, 8 and 8.1

It is not my favorite, since I am a die-hard Yamaha XG fan but since there is no 64bit support for my Yamaha SW1000 card or my DBXG50 Daughter Card, CoolSoft is a very good alternative.

http://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/virtualmidisynth

I have also successfully loaded Yamaha's fabulous SoftSynth, S-YXG50 VSTi Plugin using jBridge under Windows x64 8.1 and have had no problems running it as a vsti Synth in BIAB ever since jBridge was released. Unfortunately for most people Yamaha's VSTi SoftSynth has been discontinued for a number of years now by Yamaha, but if you are lucky to own that program you can try using jBridge to load it

For all others, give CoolSoft Virtual Midi Synth a try. It might be exactly what you are looking for. The one good thing about using CoolSoft with sound fonts is that if you don't like the sound of one particular sound font you can always load another and there are quite a number of free sound fonts on the web.

As a final note, if you want to try CoolSoft's program, don't use the current 2.x Alpha version, use the stable v.1.12.1 version that was released on 01-07-2015.

Does the Super Midi in Biab provide sound?

Or,

Are they just better midi arrangements?

Thanks,

Trax

MIDI data is only ever 'messages' to control a MIDI device that then actually makes the sound. MIDI data never has any sound of its own, it only has events that are received by a MIDI capable device that then converts the events into whatever sounds it has available. Essentially, MIDI Super Tracks are just better (more realistic) arrangements of MIDI data. But you still need something to receive the MIDI data and convert it into sounds. This would typically be a Soft Synth (e.g. Coyote Forte) or a Hardware Synth (e.g. Ketron SD2).

I'm actually partial to the Roland VSC (Virtual Sound Canvas). It does GM2 and GS. It has the SC88 Pro-stuff as well. Patch files, etc are already setup for BiaB. It used to be included (for free). The setup files are part of my BB2010, but apparently those don't play well with W8.1. Fortunately, I have a VST version still working (I dumped the DX stuff long ago). I have issues loading it into BB2015 (?) directly, but can pipe midi to it using MidiYoke (which does install after using some compatibility settings) via VST exe shell for the VSC.

The CW-TTS1 is more programmable (FX,etc) and does GM2 but I think it lacks the extra Roland soundsets. The TTS1 does load into BiaB2015, but is natively DXI, though it can be wrapped into a VSTi shell, which is the better way, as DXI support is disappearing.

As noted, these are just GM/GS sounds, so not considered 'pro' but more than adequate for composition stuff. I use RBand/Sonar/FLS and my own VSTi's when a song is worth the effort to 'finish' with better samples/instruments. Though the whole export midi/audio is a bit tedious which is the plug for RBand.

I'm actually pretty bummed with the SampleTank/AmpliTube BiaB stuff. They are just demo's and while nice are pretty pricey. The real downside is that they scatter files all over the place and don't clean up after themselves well, leaving IKM junk scattered all over including the registry, so I don't even consider installing the demo's anymore as they are more trouble than they are worth. The IKM copy protection stuff is just a real PITA (imho).

It's been awhile since I've played with SoundFont's (given their age/legacy). While not quite as PnP as the VSC, they are more versatile, though require more work (searches, DL's, comparisons, etc) and setup. Basically, they are reduced feature set SampleTanks.

The BEST softsynth.....

wow, is that one hard to answer.

Best for what? Many synths are specific to a certain style and genre of music. Some are all around general synths that cover a wide range.

Some like TTS and Coyote are inexpensive. Others like Kontakt and East West are not inexpensive. Some sound like synthesizers and some sound like real orchestras..... it all depends on your needs AND your budget.

In BB for example, in my rig, TTS is the default synth for playing the midi and it sounds relatively decent for that purpose.

If I had to keep just one synth out of all the ones I have... it would be the mid-priced Kontakt. It has professional quality samples in it and it covers a wide range of sounds.

There are also synths in my stable of synths that just do drums, or just do some other instrument.... and they do, what they do, well.

Best is very subjective but very good can be described. Very good costs real money. As a keyboard player I probably have 15K (new prices) worth of keyboards right now. The best overall synths I have are the Kurzweil PC3 and the new Roland FA06. The Kurz retails for about $2,800 and the FA for about $1,500. Excellent sounds. For modules I have a Roland Sonic Cell. About $500 new. The new Roland Integra is about $1,700.

Good sounds cost real money. You can save by going software vs hardware. To equal the sounds of my keyboards again, it's real money. Kontakt with all the sound libraries is $6-800 and the other big name softsynts are about the same.

When somebody asks for the "best" on this forum anyway they usually mean the best for cheap. That is problematic because there is nothing that is even close to "best" for less than several hundred bucks.

$300 for ST 3 is a steal imho. But when someone talks about the aggravation in using stuff like this, getting it all set up, having problems, all that stuff all I can say is welcome to the real world of digital audio. Somebody has a problem with IKM's authorization process? Try other companies with their iLock dongle. You have to be a true computer nerd to get all this working if you want anything close to the "best" sounds. Lots of folks simply want something that they can load up, sounds like a million bucks with no hassles and all they have to do is hit play.

Good luck with that.

Bob

Bingo!!!

When people say they want good sounds for under $100 ... I have to shake my head..... because while you can get decent sounds, no sir, they will not be realistic enough to fool anyone. Coyote and TTS are good synths but they are definitely bottom of the barrel when it comes to sound quality...and yes, I have and use TTS every single day I am recording....it's my default BB synth. The only thing lower in quality it the wavetable synth. (IMHO)

There are a few decent low cost sample libraries... GPO is one, Miroslave lite is another.... The NI stuff is good and Kontakt is a benchmark and at the lower end of the professional sounding libraries. Some of the "best sounding" libraries are several thousand bucks.... and out of the reach of most home hobby recording enthusiasts.

Good does cost money. Best costs even more.

Something to add, I'm not trying to scare anyone or make them feel foolish because they don't understand this. Most of us here including me don't use Biab itself with the best sounding synths. We mostly use it as the first tool to get a song layout. The basic synths are plenty good enough for that. If I really want some good sounding horns or strings I can always hook up my Kurz or Roland but with all the Real Tracks and what I use Biab for, the Forte DXi is usually good enough.

Bob

Well said Bob +1
Coyote Forte Synth seems good enough here.

The best soft synth if you really must is this probably this one https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/vst/halion_and_halion_sonic/halion_5.html#c216893

Another +1

That is exactly how I work, i.e. Coyote Forte to much better sounding softsynths.

tss-1 for me. But for what I do I also really like the Garraten personnel Orchestra. You have to assign instruments but you do get the better sound for the your $100.

Yes, Garritan is good, but not fully automatized.
IMO, Old Yamaha XG Softsynth is still the best option for standard 128-instrument General Midi.
I just listened to couple of soundfonts mentioned here, none of them is good enough compared to Yamaha.
The key moment is BALANCE. Sure that every soundfont has "Excellent sounds". Yes, single instruments can sound realistically. But any COMBINATION of them involves calculation of individual chorus, reverb and many other parameters. The Yamaha still manages this task better than any soundfont, no matter how huge it is.
I'm very big fan of GM midi's since the 2000 year and Pentium era. Regularly I've been monitoring the web for new soundfonts, softsynths and other. The answer is no. Not a Roland, not a Native Instruments. The more instruments are involved - the clearer is the difference.

How about a digital audio worstation (DAW) with built-in instruments?

There are a few forum users (I'm not a user but if I was looking for a DAW this would be my first choice) that use MultitrackStudio. It is easy to use, stable, well supported, works with Windows or Mac and within your price range. You can find out more about MultiTrackStudio, or MTS, ++ HERE ++

You can also try this updated version of Rolands classic...

http://www.roland.com/products/sound_canvas_va/

A bit expensive but it works well with Band in a Box and it sounds good from the tests I have made.


Kevin

How do you use the Sound Canvas VA in BIAB, it is a VSTi ?
The DXi synth works fine as Default Synth, but the Roland Canvas don't work. According to the display, the tracks are well fed with MIDI data but, no sound get out.

Well, folks, it is very simple task to link VST-plugin and MIDI-output of any program.
1. You need a free program called MidiYoke. It gives you several virtual MIDI input and output devices. Every version of windows is supported, even Win 2016 Server TP4
2. After that you set the MIDI-output of your favorite program to "Out To MIDI Yoke: 1".
3. You also need any of programs called "VST Host". "VST Host" from Hermann Seib, for example. Or SAVIHost. Or any other free utilities. This kind of "VST Host" programs can load VST-plugin and then you can set its input to "In From MIDI Yoke: 1".

OK with MIDIYoke.
I would dream of a direct integration of VSTi in BIAB without any additionnal software....

No MIDIYoke or LoopBe app needed you can use VSTi's directly in BIAB . But those apps are useful to have for different reasons and in complex config's.

BTW that New Roland VA comes with too many restrictions - you need to click on the buy button and then read the "reminders"

The old Roland sound canvas plugin/app was good but these days $125 is too pricy you can get Coyote Forte for a third that or buy Cakewalk Music Creator here and it comes with TTS-1 a Roland SC like plugin ( sound clone) a lot cheaper. And I am a Roland Fanboy

Larry, could you please detail how you proceed to get the Roland Sound Canvas VSTi as default synth ?

I think this new SC looks interesting. It's more than just a GM synth because they say it has 1600 sounds with lots of editing.

I'm going to DL the trial and I'll report back but it will take a few days.

Just watch the Biab set up video to see how to set it up. It's simple and no problem at all.

Bob

Just added VST Hyper Canvas by doing:

Upper Menu: Opt. -> MIDI/Audio driver setup
Check: Use VSTi/DXi Synth
Button: VSTi/DXi Synth Settings ()
Button: ADD VST...

But i'm agree with

This new-year-2016 Roland Sound Canvas is silenced in a BIAB-VST mode. The channel charts are moving up and down, but no sound cannot be heard.
The MIDIyoke does a job though! Thank you folks, for mentioning new ROLAND module!!

Love to hear your report (i am on phone today so internet crippled)

But sounds like its a vsti version of most Roland GS Sound Canvas 's (for those who don't know GS is an expansion of GM thst allows variations of base 128 GM sounds as weel as other functions - Bob i kniw you know that but i think some reading this thread might not )

So suspect it 's like your Sonic Cell or my sc-8850 (1640 sounds) or SC-880 or SD-80 or 90

Don't get me wrong a good GM with GS expansion sounds/functions plugin is welcome and the "street price" will probably be closer to 100'ish but the listed restrictions by Roland was like a cold shower

And, I just read all the specs, what restrictions?

Bob

I use soft synths as well (Dimension Pro-Cakewalk) which has some excellent sounds), as well as several already mentioned that come with Sonar. But, to echo what JazzMammal said regarding hardware synths/keyboards, I use a first generation Yamaha Motif keyboard, as well as second generation Yamaha ES Motif Rack unit more than soft synths. The advantage of hardware synths is much less overhead on the computer, and, I might add, pretty amazing sounds and replication of various instruments. While not quite as flexible as soft synths, most modern day (and even my hardware synths) can be updated with new sounds/patches, etc., as well as creating customized sounds. Whether playing the keyboard or using the rack synth with my synth enabled guitars, I can capture (mostly) what is played both audio and midi through the instruments and bring it right into notation.
Richard

Bob -

I think these are the restrictions he was referencing (from the Roland web site):

Yeah but that's just normal CYA stuff. You know, "Hey I just tried to play this wonderful midi file I downloaded from a free website and it sounds like crap, what gives?"

When they talk about all those exceptions, it won't read this or that what they're saying is if you load in a midi file that was created say in Kontakt using non GM controllers to get the performance nuances those little nuances won't play correctly because this synth isn't Kontakt. Many users especially here have no clue about those sorts of things. Many folks here simply want brain dead plug and play and once you get above the basic GM synths we've talked about, it doesn't work that way. The better synths require some tweaking from the user.


The one thing I saw was the minimum computer requirements. the CPU should be no problem for older systems but it says 4 gigs of ram. There are still quite a few users here running old XP systems with 2 gigs ram. That apparently won't cut it.

As far as the listing of compatible software, nobody ever lists Biab but Biab handles VST's just fine so it should work but that's why they have a free trial which I will try soon.

Bob

What John said.

NOT trying to discourage, as matter of fact I just re-looked on the spec page and this just confirmed that THIS plugin is IDENTICAL (sound wise and part/poly wise) to my SC-8850


From Roland spec list:

"Number of parts 16 parts

Maximum Polyphony 64 voices

MIDI Format Conforms to GS, GM2, GM

Sound Maps 4 types (SC-8820, SC-88Pro, SC-88, SC-55)"


The SC-8820 and SC-8850 had same sound sets (analogous to how SD 80 and sd-90 have same sound sets) -
(look here to see who supplied the SC-8850 patch map to PG.)

Which makes it really good GM (GS/GM2) plug-in but sounds will be little dated. And PERFECT for BIAB and fast song generation for all non-real track parts!

I USE my SC 8850, I also use my old Alesis Nanosynth but when serious "endgame" is needed I use other rack gear or other plug-ins than SC, or TTS-1, or Forte, or even "plug ins" like Dim Pro!

actually the biggest gotcha for ME would be this one (Sonar is my goto DAW)

"Due to host application specifications, you cannot use control changes to make correct bank selections and program changes in the following host application.

[Windows]

・Cakewalk
SONAR PLATINUM / Professional / Artist(32bit Edition / 64bit Edition)

"

but I WILL DOWNLOAD AND TRY TRAIL in spite of all this. But will (probably) wait till price comes down for me to seriously consider buying (mainly since it's duplicative to what I already have in HW and other SW)

but your report will be useful to others here - so please ignore my doom and gloom

actually to beat this horse to death

Looking at list of patches they are one for one identical to SC-8850. Sound maps use same banks with same names - ditto drum maps to an SC-8850. BTW it DOES sound IDENTICAL to the SC-8850, here is a youtube on this it shows some sounds/patches with VA and then again with SC-8850.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP_67GQkKn4

But if want a BETTER review of what it does well and not well (this is for "iStuff" which I don’t own any of but same sounds/app) actually go to around 13 min if you like "voices" and especially jazz scat (~15:30+ min)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v24enzx3Beo


the included SC-55 maps even include the CM-64 LA and CM 64 PCM sounds (which for gamers might come in handy - if you use the right VSTi .dll wrapper - TBD).

So if it were cheaper I might buy it as a SW substitute to using/carrying my SC-8850 and cables.

SIDE BAR: Since folks here that have a Ketron and swear by them for acoustic sounds - it would be nice if they had a Ketron plug-in counterpart to this one!

Since we got off topic a little wonder why PG doesn’t pursue selling Ketron's SD-2's or one of the other Ketron variations here?

Larry

(I'm probably talking myself in to buying it after all)

I don't think you're beating anything Larry, this is good info and it's great that you have the hardware version to compare to, I always heard good things about the 8850.

I think the real question regarding cost, is this significantly better sounding than the Forte Dxi or TTS-1? Those two are $40 each, if this is that much better I think it's worth it because what's the next step up? Not $2-300, it's more like $4-500.

The cool thing about having this as a plugin is the fast rendering of your song to audio. Software can render a song in 15-30 seconds while a hardware module has to be routed back to your computer using the audio ins and you record the playback in real time, there's no "rendering" with a hardware synth. A six minute song takes six minutes to record to audio.

Bob

Some users have comments about the sound of this VSTi, so how have you tested this VSTi in BIAB ?
Has anybody get Roland Sound Canvas VA working in BIAB as default synth without MidiYoke or other virtual cable?

Yes I was just about to comment

But you NEED JBridge. As dumb as it sounds I cannot get the 32 bit trail version to work in BIAB (or even Powertracks) (more later once I figure it out - it seems to be a sample rate issue interfering with BIAB BUT I'm still investigating so don't quote me, it could be ANYTHING (including "short between headsets") - remember it's a TRAIL version)

The 64 bit trial VERSION DOES WORK (via JBbridge).\


as with adding any VSTi/DXi as default:

1. click on the "Plugins" button

2. Click on the "Realtime VST/DXi Plugin in settgins

3. Click on the "default Synth"

4. at the top of the window that opens click on the TOP (first) slot and run scroll bar doe top bottom that says "add VSTi plugin"

5. POINT to the 64 bit version of the Sound Canvas .dll if you installed the trial with defaults than it is at

"C:\Program Files\Roland\Sound Canvas VA\SOUND Canvas VA.dll"


If you ALREADY added the 32 bit version (it has same name as 64 bit) you must FIRST delete it from the list in BIAB becasue the .dll's have the same name BIAB won't try and load the second version even though it's different (it's the 64 bit one) but BIAB sees the same name so it doesn't try to "reload" it.

You need to delete 32 bit one using the Options button in the VST plugins pull down window and you will see the remove VST button.

NOTE the FIRST time you open the Sound Canvas window in BIAB the "Parts" (or "FX' or "Options") portion of screen is cut off and you need send at least one instruments change to it then close BIAB and re-open to get the full Sound Canvas screen.

It is a BIAB display issue I will document it and send to PG support. I've had previous issues with large VSTi screens that BIAB wouldn't show whole "window" for in the past.


The output VOLUME of this VSTi (even at MAX for each part) seems to be low. And the total mix needs to be adjusted to level it all.



The 32 bit version of Sound Canvas VA works in 32 bit Mixcraft - but when I load a GM song ("Saturday in the Park") it sends the GM set to the Sound Canvas - it seems to ignore this - the parts play but are all the default Piano - also investigating that issue.

However the same song in 32 it Reaper works as expected and compared to my external SC-8850 sounds identical (when levels are set the same)

In 32 bit PowerTracks (2014) it loads up, has same display issue as BIAB (initially), and song sends all the right parts to the Sound Canvas VA VSTi but can't get any audio with - it causes no issues with running PowerTracks like it does in BIAB - just no audio.

STILL investigating (call me a geek)


.

the

I've read most of the responses here. I have to agree with some and disagree with others.

Coyote Forte is decent enough for an inexpensive GM soundset, but it is not "great", IMO.

TTS-1 is about the same as Coyote, IMO.

Hardware CAN be better in a lot of cases, but it depends on the hardware. I do tend to use a Yamaha MOXF on a lot of sounds, but some of its sounds are not great, either.

I also use Kontakt on some things, and on some things I use some of the cakewalk softsynths; SI Strings, SI bass, Soundcenter, DimPro, Rapture.

Mostly what the answer to this thread boils down to this:
it's about what you can afford for your level of satisfaction with the sounds. if you can afford Kontakt and can hear a difference between it and Coyote, then get it! if you can afford a hardware synth and can hear a difference, get it! if you are satisfied with Coyote and don't want to spend any more money, then don't!

just my 2 cents

Larry,
In my mind, I was speaking about the 32-bit version!
yes the 64-bit is very functional.
Thanks for helping !

User Chris_Kn, Is Halion 5 a sample player comparable to Kontakt? I followed your link and that was the first impression I got. If so, why do you recommend HaLion over Kontakt? While I do not have either sampling system if someone was to ask I would recommend Kontakt just because there appears to be more free and paid third party support for Kontakt than there is for HaLion. Also, what general midi type of sound library do you prefer to use with HaLion?

Halion has some excellent sounds. I have Halion 4 (but Halion 5 is out, so can't comment there). Of course, as with all things Steinberg, you have to use a USB dongle.

Halion Sonic is the "lite" version of the full blown "Halion". Not as many instruments and not as much control.

I have got Cakewalk TTS, Roland Dxi and NI Bandstand.

Here is an all midi example of each done in Realband as the default synth, will play direct on Chrome, may have to download on IE


Cakewalk TTS
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4ZlL1nYKFgndzExdWtyTlN1NTA/view?usp=sharing

NI banstand (a little glitchy in biab but fine in RB)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4ZlL1nYKFgncXZjZldvRTl3NUU/view?usp=sharing

Roland dxi
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4ZlL1nYKFgndDdza3dVT1oyNlk/view?usp=sharing

I usually use the Roland Dxi but kind of leaning towards Bandstand as well.

Musiclover

jford,

I agree. The samples I've heard indicate Halion is a nice sounding sample player. What I'm trying to figure out is it more of a proprietary sample creator and player or more of a system like Kontakt which is also a proprietary sample creator and player but also has a underlying development system that encourages third party adaptation.


Musiclover,

What product is the Roland DXi? Is it the VSC (Virtual Sound Canvas), HyperCanvas or another product I'm not aware of? Roland has released bunches of DXi products over the years. I'm sure you are aware the Cakewalk TTS-1 also was made for Cakewalk by Roland.

Jim,

Its the VSC which as you know will only work on windows 7 32 bit, does gave an error message on exit of biab as well, no big deal.

musiclover

Dear BIAB friends,
I'm using BIAB since 1994 now and started with a Roland VC 50. When I got a new computer cuouple of years ago I couldn't find a driver and did not have the serial interface anymore.
Currently using standard Coyote which comes with BIAB.

Maybe a stupid Question after being a fan and user for such a long time:
I would like to improve the sound quality (want it to sound much more realistic) and I only use real styles.
Will I gain in quality with Coyote forte DXI or Roland SD 50 if I only use real styles and no Midi styles?
thanks a lot for your answer.
regards
jean

Roland VC-50? is that a sound module? I can't find anything on a SYNTH module called a VC-50 (there is a video field convertor but that's a differ animal). But if you have ANY Roland synth gear that has an RS-232 (serial) interface I'm sure it ALSO had 5 Pin DIN MIDI? So you can still trigger it over MIDI from any OS: DOS up to current Windows 10 and from most any (all) Mac's.

That aside, and I don't mean to be rude but your basic question (and it's been asked by almost every new person to computer music) is analogous to asking which is better a golf club or a cheese bagel to fly an airplane.


If you are saying you ONLY use real styles that have zero (zip, nada, zilch) MIDI in them (no MIDI drums, no MIDI guitars, no MIDI pianos, no MIDI strings, horns, reeds, organs, vibes, etc.) than it is immaterial if you have ANY MIDI synths whether virtual (software plug-ins Like the Coyote Forte ) or actual (like the SD-50) and irrespective of cost: free, cheap, expensive, or astronomical.


If you mean you ALMOST never use a MIDI instrument - then it's a matter of WHICH or what type/class (brass, strings, chromatic, etc.) of MIDI instrument you do use infrequently and need to sound "realistic." If only MIDI piano than you don’t need a full "spectrum" synth or even a GM synth you just need a really good dedicated piano plug-in or an external HW synth that has a really good piano. at least if narrowed to one or a class - folks can point you to a specific dedicated HW or SW solution that duplicates that one "class" of sounds really well.


If you mean you, and this is what I think you are really asking, use a lot of real styles but in reality you ALSO use more than a few BIAB styles that have more than one or two MIDI instruments, then it is a question of how much to you want to spend (see above discussion[s])? The sky is the limit on that one.

Coyote Forte is ~$40, or Music Creator 7 for just a few bucks more, $50, and you get the TTS-1, it is included with MC 7(TTS-1 is similar to, but different from, Coyote Forte - both are GM synths) on the other hand a Roland SD-50 (new, not used) is an order of magnitude more ($450). If you want only acoustic instruments a lot of folks here swear by the Ketron SD-2 (a little cheaper than the SD-50).

Note, you JUST missed a good one (holiday sales are over) if you have or have access to the FREE SampleTank 2.5 (the one that has both VSTi as well as DXi and also has a standalone .exe) then you can still get inexpensive libraries for that, that are actually pretty good for the price and in a lot of cases better than the Coyote or TTS-1 instruments. As matter of fact, Sonic Reality (eSoundz) has a GM lib called Omnisynth 2 that when not on sale is $26 and when on sale is $10 or $15.

https://www.esoundz.com/sounds/omnisynth-2-sampletank-expansion/4736.html


eSoundz also has the same lib for Kontakt (OmniSynth) but setting up GM libs is a P.I.T.A. in Kontakt and requires a lot of memory (not an issue for me with 32GB) and you need the NOT free version of Kontakt - but if you have the full Kontakt 4 or later then you have the factory lib and that already has a lot of good usable sounds (more than Coyote, TTS-1, or even SD-50 and I am a ROLAND "fan boy.").


Finally, you can start virtual fist fights over the question "what is best sounding piano (guitar, sax, solo violin, cello,...) ?" And that's without even considering best sounding piano (guitar, violin,...) for what use: solo [and is that solo for Jazz or solo for a piano concerto] or is that for comping and "sitting in the mix."

To compound that "which is best" piano (guitar, sax, violin...) you get the actual ivory-ponders (pickers, blowers, bowers) weighing in that that swear NONE of them sound real - because they can’t get sympathetic resonance coming out of wood into their finger tips (blah, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine, BS, BS, BS).


Good Luck and Welcome
Larry

Jean,

Real styles use RealTracks that are made up of audio files. Audio files do not use midi. PG Music includes a midi transcription with many RealTracks so the Band-in-a-Box and RealBand piano keyboard windows can work and so that notation can be printed. The midi has nothing at all to do with what you hear when you're listening to a Real style using RealTracks.

Of course Band-in-a-Box also includes midi (only) styles and hybrid styles as well as midiSuperTracks. All of these use midi commands to tell a soft synth what to play and how to play it. The most common format for songs to follow is general midi. General midi has 16 channels (like a mixer channel) and each channel can play one instrument from a standard list of 128 instruments. The 128 instrument list is standard so that when a midi or Band-in-a-Box song file says load up instrument number 1 a piano instrument sound will always be be loaded. While the general midi standard has 128 instruments, it is not the only standard midi instrument list. Roland and Yamaha also have midi instrument lists. General midi added additional instrument sounds that is called General Midi 2 (gm2).

The most popular midi instruments are keyboards that have midi instrument sounds built-in. If a keyboard has a USB or five pin midi connection and it has speakers then the keyboard most likely is GM or GM2 compliant and can play all the instruments in a midi song file at one time. That is also the way the midi players built into Windows and Android works but, it is not the only way midi players can work. Some players can play only one instrument sound at a time. That's the way many synths works. Some midi software players like Kontakt and SampleTank work that way. That means there has to be a player for each instrument in a song.