BiaB 2009 for Macintosh - when will it be shipping?

How about it? We were told it would be ready Q1, now it is Q2.

We're working hard on BB Mac 09, and expect to ship in Q2.

Thank you. I will be patient until June.

That sounds promising!

Will the same amount of real tracks be present for the Mac version as the Windows version Peter?

Will there be any kind of special pricing? It has been a long time since BIAB 12

I think it shoud sell for double the PC price. After all you paid way more for your computer right? And they promised it came with all the easy to use software you'd ever need.

(Ducks) LOL.

>>>> Will the same amount of real tracks be present for the Mac version as the Windows version Peter?

Yes, the same amount of RealTracks and RealDrums will be available for Mac and Windows.

BTW, erstoke, I edited the subject title of your thread, from "BB 2009 for Macintosh shipping" to "BB 2009 Macintosh - when will it be shipping" - to avoid confusion, as it isn't shipping now.

Great news and thank you for your hard work.

Please include crossgrade pricing for those with the current PC version - thanks.

Time for me to shop for a Mac. Any suggestions as to what model to get? I'll be using the Mac primarily to run Biab and Sibelius.

Thanks ahead of time for any suggestions

Donsta

I had given up checking each week for news like this.

Thanks for not giving up on the Mac version.

I'm a bit ashamed at how eager I am to spend money on this.

Good Luck

I forgot to ask if there will be special pricing for owners of the current PC version?

Great news PG Team !!

Can't wait

Glad to hear it.

With all due respect,

I'll believe it when I see it

Looking forward to it!

Any chance of an estimate of release date Peter?
Thanks for answering my earlier post btw.

Paul

Greetings,

This is the first confirmation that the new Mac version is upon us. Im thrilled, and cant wait to get my hands on it!!! Im just hoping I can be a beta tester for this!!!

Ed

Ed, you raise an interesting question. For the PC version, every year they can pretty much roll over the beta testers. We know each other rather well.

For the Mac, however, it's been awhile since the last version, and there are a whole lot of new as well as experienced users to consider serving as beta testers. Perhaps PG Music will put out a call for a new group of testers.

Second quarter already passed you by there, Mate. Third quarter started on April 1st. Still no Mac version. I'm not holding my breath.

With all due respect, it's not nice to hold people hostage while you 'waffle and twaddle' your way through software development and customer service. Some of us don't buy BIAB because we like you, Peter. We buy it because we have no other choice for this type of software. Please don't continue to abuse that position lest you be knocked off your pedestal by people who despise you. Someone might get tired of PG Music's attitude and make a competing product with better service, support, and feature set, then what will you do?

am i missing something here?

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Second quarter already passed you by there, Mate. Third quarter started on April 1st. Still no Mac version. I'm not holding my breath.

With all due respect, it's not nice to hold people hostage while you 'waffle and twaddle' your way through software development and customer service. Some of us don't buy BIAB because we like you, Peter. We buy it because we have no other choice for this type of software. Please don't continue to abuse that position lest you be knocked off your pedestal by people who despise you. Someone might get tired of PG Music's attitude and make a competing product with better service, support, and feature set, then what will you do?

Are mac users all like this???

Paddy

Obviously in the case of buddy, too many brain cells died.

I don't need a calendar to tell me that if there are 12 months in a year, and you divide it into quarters the third quarter starts in July.

Too much poteen can do that one.

"Are all Mac users like this?"

This thread is going south

This is the only forum I know that still suffers from the obsolete PC vs. Mac syndrome. Other forums and companies (Steinberg, Native Instruments, Ableton..) demonstrate peaceful coexistence and equality of status. Hopefully this will become true also for PGM in the near future.

As a BIAB Windows user (who uses and prefers a Mac for almost everything else), I guess I should be breaking out the champagne some time in Q2. And yet... while it's good news that Mac BIAB 2009 will support all the Real Drums and Real Instruments, I'm afraid I'll need a few more questions answered before I jump "back-to-Mac" with BIAB. Are there some functions in BIAB for Windows, particularly in the audio area, that the Mac version will lack? (I've grown to appreciate BIAB's ability to generate audio harmonies, for example.) On the other hand, will the Mac version offer anything (integration with other Mac programs and/or the Mac OS?) that will give it an edge over Windows BIAB? I guess my main concern is: even if the Mac and Windows versions reach some kind of parity, will that parity remain? When BIAB Windows 2010 is released, with new features that may blow us away, will there be a comparable Mac upgrade at the same time, or at least soon thereafter? Or will the Mac version slip back into the role of a poor stepchild, always several generations behind? It would be nice if PG could tell us that, from now on, they plan to update both platforms on approximately the same schedule. That's probably not realistic -- what PG does with the Mac version will (and should) depend on the sales and other factors. Yet it's tough to justify even a modestly-priced Mac cross-grade without some sense of PG's long-term plans for the Mac version. Any comments, PG?

Well don't hold yer breath. Those who develop for the Mac do so at their own peril, for the company is liable to turn 180 degrees and render it totally impossible to compile for the platform.

This is what has happened numerous times in the past. The catchphrase is proprietary.

When you have code that was developed in a language that requires a compiler and none is available for the new platform you are shafted untile someone releases o/s details and someone else makes a compiler.

What we should all hope is that the new version is open source compliant at least to the extent that it will compile on linux/ubuntu/debian etc. so that we can shed ourselves of the both the Windows and Mac nonsense.

At least in the Windows/Vista world there is enough of a base to have the tools and the hooks to make software, unlike the draconian approach of the Mac world where they don't want 3rd party software to invade thier wee private space.

We will all be better served once the software runs on a true open source free operating system. And on an open platform not needing years of development to release a software product.

It's interesting that many companies (big and small) routinely develop their software as cross-platform for Windows and Mac (and sometimes Linux). I think the simple trick is proper structuring of the software, ie. strict separation of platform independent vs. dependent code. So only the dependent part (GUI, drivers) needs to be adapted on different platforms. It seems to me that PGM have missed the opportunity to design/redesign BIAB for this purpose.

You forget tha age of band in a box. Support for the needed compilers stalled with Mac's closed door policies. To blame P|G Music is disingenuous. They had the code, it could no longer be compiled. Had it been written in C from the outset, then cross platform might have worked.

John,

what I mean is this: If the Windows version was written in C *and* properly structured, they could just drop the existing Mac version and compile the platform independent part (probably 80% of the code) on OS X and Linux. Then only the platform dependent part must be coded.

BTW, I think the main problem with Linux is the non-standard MIDI/audio framework.

The midi audio framework is proprietary on Mac and Microsoft platforms so it's the other way around.

Secondly the original version was not written in C, C didn't exist, and it's obviously a lot of code. My smallest piece of software was in business basic and was 50,000 lines for the main app with 20 thousand for each of the modules. I tried to rewrite it to run properly on a PC but ended up keeping it on Unix. I had a large enough customer base, and it ended up a good decision, for every tom dick and harry and their kid were walking into my clients offices and trying to help them with 'clunky' terminals. Some of them thought it was a Dos system with bad screens. In reality to look up parts and print invoices you don't need a fancy interface. My best story is when I wanted 12k for an upgrade to a bigger CPU and tape backup they brought in a 17 year old. They started entering the 1/2 million part inventory, and every 20 items the system rebuilt the index for about an hour, and finally when they had spent 8k on the kid and his dream system that worked great with 40 parts got bogged down so badly I got a call. Needless to say I wasn't fast to get there. The whole Dos on the table computer debacle lead a lot of people down the garden path.

At the end of the day, if Mac had no compilers for the O/s you had to rewrite the whole thing you might just as well look at your business model and throw up your hands. I still have lots of code out there but none of it would run on a Mac.

When the program started on the Atari, C was not on the horizon.

Regardless of history, if you want to stay in good business with software you should take advantage of the currently available tools and methods. It may require investments for redesign of existing software but pays off in the long run.

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It's interesting that many companies (big and small) routinely develop their software as cross-platform for Windows and Mac (and sometimes Linux). I think the simple trick is proper structuring of the software, ie. strict separation of platform independent vs. dependent code. So only the dependent part (GUI, drivers) needs to be adapted on different platforms. It seems to me that PGM have missed the opportunity to design/redesign BIAB for this purpose.

Besides BIAB, I also use Finale -- which came on a DVD with both the Mac and Windows versions, and a license that allows installation of two copies, one on each platform if I choose. I also use Smartscore (music scanning software), which also shipped with Mac and Windows versions. And before Apple bought Logic and discontinued the PC version, Logic also shipped both Mac and Windows versions, and I ran them both. Bandstand and other software synths likewise ship ready to run on either platform. My point? Well, it would be really nice if PG could do the same thing with BIAB. I'd gladly shell out some extra bucks for a mega-mega-pak I could run on either platform -- and it would mitigate my concerns about one version lacking a few features found on the other platform (the Windows version of Finale also apparently has a few tricks the Mac version can't do). I'm not a programmer, and I don't know what PG would have to do to get there -- but it's the product I want, and it seems to make sense in the long run.

Thank you Peter for the update on the new Mac OSX Version. I look forward to it coming out and I do believe there will be a strong interest in this new version. With real tracks included we will have a great tool for creating songs etc. I hope the final stages of development go well and not too many problems are encountered.

Enjfb

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This is the only forum I know that still suffers from the obsolete PC vs. Mac syndrome. Other forums and companies (Steinberg, Native Instruments, Ableton..) demonstrate peaceful coexistence and equality of status. Hopefully this will become true also for PGM in the near future.

At the Garageband forum they steadfastly refuse to port the product for the PC.

I guess my options are to

a\) lurk there and post derogatory statements, and inflammatory insults.
b) postulate that Mac isn't 10 percent of the market and exptrapolate the riches that await them when this obviously everything to all software sells millions then billions of units.
c) ignore the whole thing.

I'm leaning towards c). falling over...ouch

I go with C) also...

What's with all the negativity?

Peter has said his company is making the Mac BIAB 2009 and it appears to be the next product PG is releasing. PG has obviously made the business decision that it is worth their while.

So PG releases it.
MAC users buy it and enjoy it.
PG gets more cash.
Everybody's happy.

Looking forward to the release.

We all hope that more than 5 people buy a program which worked fine for years, but when Mac changed the o/s and no one had a compiler any more for the platform, PG music was unable to compile the software.

Let's hope that the 5 to 10 sales compensate them for making the software work on a platform that might change again tomorrow.

The real solution is the same. Get the program to run on a free version of Linux. That would be the deal of the century.

Mac's remind me of a girl I once dated. One could say, "no matter how pretty she is somewhere some guy is tired of putting up with her c***. "

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Get the program to run on a free version of Linux. That would be the deal of the century.

Talking about Linux is rather quixotic. Here are some quotes from discussions on the 'Plogue' forum. Note that Plogue is a small and successful audio software company like PG Music.

From developers:

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Its the kind of anti corporate mentality and "must have all free" and "open your source or you die" user attitude that pushes small developers - who just want to make a honest living - away from this great OS.

Just wish people in the linux audio community would fix up ONE STANDARD AUDIO DISTRO. Then, only THEN should we be interested in porting.

From users:

Quote:

I've spent days in the past trying to install and configure Linux distributions, but ultimately I come back to XP because I know where I stand, and it means I can actually get on and do my work.

LinuxAudio is a playground for devs, a babylonic confusion, but not really ready for the productive user.

Well of course the opposite to that is that many corporations are running Linux, where my wife works they have the network and the database software runnining on it. The database is proprietary, and runs on Unix variations and linux.

As to sound applications there are lots.

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Well of course the opposite to that is that many corporations are running Linux, where my wife works they have the network and the database software runnining on it.

But audio processing is another level of complexity/diversity.

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Secondly the original version was not written in C, C didn't exist...<snip>

<snip>When the program started on the Atari, C was not on the horizon. <snip>

Not that it really matters to this thread, but C was developed in 1972, long before BIAB on the Atari.

And as far as Windows vs. Mac development, Apple and Microsoft both have proprietary libraries and the bulk of both platforms software is written in a compiled language (even if Windows' Visual Studio tools compile to an intermediate object code it's still compiled rather than interpreted). The only time Apple really complicated things for developers badly was the switch from OS9 to OSX, and then a little bit with the switch to the Intel platform and the universal binary. This is what complicated BIAB development since it's still using older PowerPC code on the Mac. OSX and the GNU C and Objective C tools are good enough that most open source C code for Unix/Linux compiles and runs just fine on the Mac.

Just pointing out some of the obvious errors in your posts about software development on Windows and Mac platforms. I was biting my tongue until the "C wasn't even on the horizon" comment.

--Jim

I might concede that if you re-read my post I was a bit ambiguous, for I only ever had one Atari and it ran basic and I think I had lisp for it, but went to Motorola 68000 and that o/s came with C and a compiler.

The implementation of working versions of C on microcomputers was a tortuous affair, leading me to port specifically to Motorola platforms in the 680x0 family.

The problem with the upwards mobility of the code from one platform to another often depended on 3rd party vendors releasing newer versions of their compilers that would allow you to upgrade customers. Computers such as the NCR 68020 family made a lot of money for people, including me at one point.

C may have been on the horizon, but I doubt it's implementation for the Atari St was robust enough to support Band in a Box a gui.
My wife, who remains custodian of most of my old code, told me that on the new server, with 20 million records each about 30 card images long, takes less than 10 seconds to run the most complex report. I remember purging records and running some of those reports on cron OVERNIGHT and at least on monthly report ran all day Sunday. That code has not changed one line since 1996 when I retired and sold that company, however she still works there.

All I'm really interested is when the Mac version is coming out.

The debate over who prefers Windows and who prefers Mac kind of sounds like any tribal argument (eg religeon, sports, men vs women, republicans v democrats) and as such IMO no-one is right. There are people who prefer Windows. People who prefer Macs. People who prefer Linux. What's the big deal?

As a Mac user I accept that there will be less software available than if I operated Windows/PC. And I understand if companies don't wanna make versions for Macs (though in my experience of the subset of the population who are musicians that use a computer Mac users are a bigger portion of that particular subset - and PG MUSIC by definition produce software for this subset) then that's the price we pay for our perception of the Mac experience.

So let's forget the MAC IS BEST/PC IS BEST whatever argument and move on.

Hopefully PG Music will be releasing the new BIAB for Mac and us Mac users can finally experience some of the cool features that you lucky PC guys have been using for years.

Cheers.

It is a free world. PG Music makes software and we buy it. We do not have to. They do not have to, either. If someone feels that there is a business opportunity in competing with BIAB, why don't they just write it and market it, instead of posting unkind words. I am sure Peter is not deterred but I felt compelled to say this: I own every product PG made. I had never had any problem with PG attitude Yes, I would love to have a better Mac version but I do not expect PG to make it unless it is a good business decision.

Perhaps a version for iPhone

(just kidding)

Lanny

Irosicky

Good post! I agree.

Hopefully a Mac version will work for PG MUsic so they have a sound business reason to continue supporting it. I hope enough Mac people buy it, I know I will definitely buy it and with all the trimmings too!!!

Hi All,

Irosicky had a great suggestion for a version or mini version of BIAB for the iPhone. So many people could then be exposed to this program, and then spring for the whole computer version. I would love to be able to play my tracks in the iPhone instead of using my iPod all the time.

Back to cleaning up the glass from yesterdays Earthquake (Man, I thought a 6.0 would be slight, was I ever wrong!)

Ed

Hey guys, check out the top of the forum. They're looking for Mac beta testers. It looks like your prayers about to get answered.

Bob

Yes I signed on.

I'm more than a little curious about this one.

Should be fun.

Mac W

Hey all, I feel like I know most of you already. I've been lurking here for a long time waiting for news of a new Mac version. Just finally joined today to see if I could get in on the beta testing. Very exciting news !! WOO-HOO !!!!

- Jay

So sad, it was actually fun listening to guys with so much money to invest on a computer stamp their wee feet and cry and moan. If they get the same version we poor PC guys are going to have go to the back of the bus 'cause they are all so better musicians than the pc rabble, and they will get better sounds, it will take 4 nano seconds to render all 48 realtracks including the new kazoo solos that will only be available on Macs, along with the greatest instruments release, jew's harps, slide whistles, and latin marracca solos. I'm going to be so jealous. Then Mac will buy PG music for 40 million and there will be no more PC support and we will all be forced to buy computers that run half as fast at 4 times the cost and move into better homes and drive BMW's.

Oh woe is us.

There's a bulge in my cheek,
Even now as I speak,
My brain sprung a leak,
And it hasn't even peaked,
My computer it won't tweak,
And doesn't make a squeak,
I've no Mac and I'm a freak,
My knees have gone all weak,
and I've been punched in the beak.