I thought I could trick BIAB into playing a bass line that I want.

So I entered a bunch of slash chords on every beat to get the bass I wanted.

BIAB obeys and plays the bass line on the beat....

BUT....

It also plays a boring piano part bang on the beat, punching chords (same chord) ad nasueum like a metronome.

I guess BIAB doesn't take too kindly to being tricked.

Freeze the bass track and export it. change the chords back and regenerate the piano.

Several options at this point. Export all the files and import them into RealBand or if you want to continue within BIAB, import the saved audio bass line into the audio channel.

Freezing is a neat trick for this purpose.

Sometimes your bass line calls for the same bass note under changing chords. If you run into that, remember that BIAB supports pedal bass.

Thanks c_fogle!

That sounds like something doable.

Thanks Matt. I hope the next time I need a pedal bass it will work for me.

When I needed it a couple of years ago I was using BIAB 2011 and it had a bug in the pedal so it didn't work.
PGMusic techs tested it and confirmed.

Since you have a different chord on every beat (for all intents and purposes), BIAB is only going to play one beat patterns. I suspect that's why you get one beat piano banging.

So the freeze option definitely send to be the best way to go.

Right, but if BIAB was really smart it would see that the chord remains the same;

// Cm/C , Cm/G , Cm/C // Cm/Eb

and try to add some embellishment/interest to the chords instead of bashing the *exact same* chord smack *on* the beat!

Dare I say it?

Have you tried to play the bass part with either a bass guitar or a keyboard bass synth?

When I want a part and BB/RB won't cooperate, I will give plan B a shot. If you can pull it off, it might just be the faster solution.

Playing a bass line on a keyboard is not that difficult. And with either autopunch, or midi editing... mistakes are a breeze to fix.

That is my solution when BB just doesn't deliver the goods.

Thanks GH!
No I haven't tried to play the bass part yet.

In all my years using BIAB I have never resorted to playing any parts inside BIAB.

All I have done was render songs and move them to Reaper/Acid to play on top of the changes.

Is there an easy way to record the bass part using midi guitar in BIAB? Is it easy to set up?
I wouldn't even know how to connect my guitar synth to BIAB!
I have a GR-1 synth and USB Edirol UA-25EX.

I like c_fogle's response:
Even if you decide to go the guitar synth route, I think you would be better moving to (and learning) Realband at this point in the project.

They both have strengths, and learning the 'transfer point' (or when to move to RB) can save a lot of time/effort.

They are similar, but very different.

Since you know and use Reaper I would render the song minus the bass track and move them to Reaper. I would use your MIDI guitar controller in Reaper. Using a DAW for recording is much easier then recording in BiaB IMHO.

Another option is to record your guitar, I am assuming you are a guitarist based on your MIDI guitar controller, playing the bass part then transposing that track down an octave. Sometimes that can sound as good as a bass guitar.

Also, again if you are a guitarist, go to Rondomusic.com and buy a bass. You can get quality instruments at a very good price there. I have a number of guitars and one fretless bass from them. The fretless bass is what you are hearing on my more resent songs and it only costs around $100 USD.

I hope this helps.

Thanks very much Mario, you give some very good suggestions!

I would be much more inclined to work in Reaper rather than Real Band (or BIAB) on this.

I know many here swear by Real Band, but at the end of the day it is still another program to spend time learning.
And can it easily record multiple takes, allow easy editing, smooth fade-in's/outs, multiple fx's plus a ton more features that Reaper has?

Most of them (DAW software) can - those basic operations are not restricted to Reaper

Real Band was referred to use because it is the only DAW that specifically addresses The BIAB limitation you had with RealTracks. No other DAW will do that without live instruments. It can easily do your list including a ton more features related to BIAB that Reaper or no other DAW has.

The good news is you do not have to spend a lot of time learning in order to fix your issue in RB. You should already know how to generate a real track from BIAB. Multi riff works the same. Cut/Paste, move/copy work the same as other DAW's. Just use the features you need to fix the problem. You may spend a lot of time either setting up for someone or yourself to play the part; Certainly more time than it takes to regenerate a song.

The issues with your tracks can be fixed 'in house' with a BIAB method in either BIAB or RB if you want it to. There are simply more options available in RB. Beside that, it is a technique you will find valuable in future projects.

Yep... use a DAW and record the midi into a track.

On the song I did recently that sounded like ZZ Top... that bass part, IIRC, was me playing the part on my keyboard and using a bass sample.

I'm missing something. MarioD and Guitarhacker appear to me to be offering good solutions to a problem BIABguy doesn't have.

His original post tells us he was able to get the bass part he wanted but the changes he made resulted in unwanted changes to the piano part. At this point, Isn't it the piano that needs fixing and not the Bass?

This is an easy fix from within the BIAB program, no DAW or live instrument is necessary. Also, not knowing if BIABguy plays keyboards or has access to one or a person who can play the part, generating a RT, Midi or SuperMidi piano seems to be a better option.

I've been thinking about this problem.

It brings to mind some questions. Someone could probably figure out the answers by just playing with it, but I would hope these questions could be answered within the documentation (by PGMusic).

1. When you use slash chords for different bass notes, which instruments respond to it? Just the bass, or all chordal instruments? So in other words, does the piano, guitar, strings, and bass (assuming they are accompaniment versus soloing styles) all honor the slash bass note? Meaning if you freeze the bass track and then take away the slash chords for the other instruments, you may end up having conflicting bass notes playing.

2. If just the bass, is that based on the name of the instrument used, or is it that the bass must actually be on the legacy bass track only ?

My concern (in thinking about it) with freezing the bass, then removing the slash chords and regenerating the piano part, is that the piano (as potentially a full range instrument, depending on the style used) will now play the root bass note (and potentially other bass notes that work with the chord), which may then conflict with the moving part on the actual bass instrument.

I think we need a better understanding of how it works "under the hood", and what is actually affected by using slash chords. I did look in the user manual to see if this was explained, but only found that 1) yes, slash chords were supported and that 2) [presumably MIDI-only] soloists will adjust their scale based on analyzing the use of slash chords.

So Assuming that all chordal instruments probably honor the slash bass, I agree with the original assessment; if the base chord is the same when using slash chords, it should be treated that way and the style should not play the 1 beat MIDI patterns found in the style. This should then probably be a wishlist item (if not already).

The question left out ...or I didn't see it..... Did the piano part sound OK before you did the slash chords?

IT was said that after the slash chords the piano sounded clunky.... so did it sound good before?

If so.... you could freeze the piano Before you do the slash chords) or play the bass part live in one manner or another.

Sounds like the slash chords changed everything...which I would expect them to do.

Lots of options....

I would actually assume PG follow the conventions of music in that for a slash chord all instruments other than the bass play the nominated chord as written. Or in whatever inversion the player chooses. The chords do not necessarily have to play an inversion that matches the root.

And were it this way, it brings us to my 2nd question: If just the bass, is that based on the name of the instrument used, or is it that the bass must actually be on the legacy bass track only ?

It would still be good to know the answer to how the process works and which track(s) are affected.

Thanks guys for all the suggestions you've been making!
I appreciate it.



Well, yes and no.
The bass part isn't quite right either.
The first bar of three notes on the downbeat are fine, but the next bar is quite a bit trickier with syncopations.
To get the line right it seems I will have to play it in via midi.

No, actually the piano part didn't sound good either before or after the slash chords were implemented!

You can read my other post entitled "Chord symbol?" where I am trying to find good 4th chord comping.




See above.

BTW, the song is 'Footprints' by Wayne Shorter.