Band-in-a-Box for Windows Version 2012.5 (357)

I wrote out a song chart in Am, then needed changed it to Dbm.

I did this using the key box between the "style" and "tempo" boxes. The chords changed accordingly (Am went to Dbm) but when I printed out the leadsheet, the key signature was wrong. It showed 4 sharps (as in C#m).

I looked around for a fix and found the "transpose" menu item. I tried to transpose all, then selected bars of the song from C#m to Dbm but the leadsheet still always showed 4 sharps.

Anyone know how to fix this?

C# minor is the relative minor to E. Db minor is the relative minor to Fb. BIAB does not recognize Fb, so Db minor/C# minor will always have the key signature of 4 sharps.

I didn't find an answer
Later versions have improved features for transposing including just change key sig., or transpose and change key Sig. But that Dbm sure don't look right in the 2016 version. I couldn't find a way to change this, 2013 version help talks about improvements, it states:

"Better enharmonic display for transposed instruments, like alto sax.
In some key signatures, a Db was showing up on an A7 chord for example, and this is improved so that C# would be shown. (Nothing needs to be done to enable this.)"

However, I don't think it will work. There's a similar thread here

Others might know.

Ray, only because the BiaB program doesn't show the flats correctly though? Surely?

Probably because Db minor is only a theoretical minor key.
Phrases that are tonally in Db minor will be written in C#.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_key

Chris..

Maybe because BiaB doesn't display the Bbb in the key signature? Certainly it is possible to represent Dbm in a key signature using only flats.

Thanks VideoTrack for taking the time to duplicate my finding.

I guess this is just one of those things that can slip by software testing. I don't suppose anyone went through all the possible key transpositions.

Will this get picked up from the forum or should I do a bug report somwhere?

Certainly put it in the wishlist (with all the many other items). In the meantime, get used to reading sharps while playing flats...
Good luck!

It isn't a bug, it just isn't right Db minor is C# minor. So the key sig is 4#'s. Just because something might work in theory it doesn't make it right in practice. You just don't write in FbMaj/DbMinor, it's E and C#.

Pretty basic music theory really. Check out any circle of fifths diagrams.

Chris..

btw

Two of Verdi's most well-known operas, La traviata and Rigoletto, unusually, both end very decisively in D♭ minor. For clarity and simplicity, however, D♭ minor is usually notated as its enharmonic equivalent of C♯ minor.

Yes, BIAB doesn't recognize Fb or Cb.

Or E# or B#.

So using that rule that means that Eb minor is D# minor?
and Ab minor is G# minor?

In my opinion, theoretical keys or not, it is a software bug.

If the drop down box allows Dbm as well as C#m then the printed leadsheet should show the correct number of flats or sharps. If Dbm were not in the drop down menu of allowed keys, then fine, 4 sharps it always would and should be.

Ricobasso

I'm 100% on your side.

Your description is absolutely perfect.

As a good sight reader I still doubt that I would be able to easily interpret to read Flat Chords, and play Sharps and improvise an accompaniment at the same time. Despite the theory that others have mentioned, doing that live would be very confronting. The score should be correct.

Theory maybe, but just to get this clear in the actual real world.

I'm playing a musical score. It's supposed to be in Db minor - but represented in the key signature as all Sharps (because in 'basic music theory' you can do that)

I see a D note written on the stave. There is nothing in the key signature to tell me to play a Db (because there is no Db in the key signature, there is only a C# on the stave for the key signature). When I see a C I know to play a C#. When I see a D nothing tells me to play a Db. Why would a musician play a Db because the score shows a # for a C?

If the score showed it was in C#minor and used Sharps, all would be well. If it is in Db minor, it HAS to show where the Flats are. When you put it in practice, Flats aren't Sharps.

VideoTrack, in the circle of fifths in the link I posted can you find the Key of Db minor?? NO didn't think you could. 16 maj keys 16 minor keys. With enharmonic keys included.Not even sure I know what your arguing about. Dbminor as a key sig is theoretical not practical.

And if you are trying in your example to say that a score only has one # and that is C# it would be incorrect.

But there is a Db major scale:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-flat_major

And a Db minor scale:
https://www.basicmusictheory.com/d-flat-minor-key-signature

These are not shown on the circle of 5ths as they use the enharmonic C# major and minor because rarely is a key signature that uses either a double sharp or flat used today.

FWIW - I use the C# minor scale but I have seen double flats and sharps used in songs:

http://music.stackexchange.com/questions/87/purpose-of-double-sharps-and-double-flats

http://jtauber.com/blog/2006/11/17/why_a-sharp_is_not_b-flat/

I'm with Mario, VideoTrack, and ricobasso.

If I'm reading this all correctly, a point VideoTrack makes about readability of a note and its key signature is not trivial. It reminds me of the not-infrequent case in which an arranger writes an F# chord, but then notates Gb in the staff. Or indeed any flatted note over a sharped chord. Drives me crazy.

There is now another thread about this in the Wishlist, so I don't want to duplicate everything. Nevertheless, to support Db minor or similar, we would need BIAB to support all four enharmonic note spellings (Fb, Cb, E# and B#), and double-sharps and double-flats. Tall order, I suspect.

Yes, thanks, I'm aware of that. I mentioned 'All Sharps', and then I only discussed one sharp simply for brevity.