PG Music Home
Posted By: dga StyleMaker Question - 06/01/16 07:49 PM
Is it possible to start with auditioning a RealDrum and add just a Bass to create a Style?

I've been finding a complete style and then muting all the other instruments and creating a Style for the song. File>StyleMaker>Save current song (except muted instruments) as a style.
Posted By: Dave Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/01/16 08:37 PM
The simplest way I have found is to find a style, any style, that matches your requirements, such as even / swing, 8 / 16, genre (country, jazz, rock etc) tempo. Just pick one that is close.

Copy and rename it. It doesn't have to be in the bb library, but there's no harm either.

Then import the instruments from other styles that you want. You can add your RD from the misc tab

Basically you are creating a hybrid style, so you can watch the video for that to get more ideas.
Posted By: AudioTrack Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/01/16 09:07 PM
There are several videos on Styles on this page

This one may be useful.
Posted By: Muzic Trax Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/01/16 10:00 PM
If you already know a RealDrum Style that works, try loading a "blank" style and then add each realTrack as you see fit.

I use this method 99% of the time to get a style that works well with what I am looking for.

You can then search the RealTracks for genre, tempo and feel to match closer to what you are looking for.

Trax
Posted By: dga Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/02/16 01:13 AM
Originally Posted By: Muzic Trax
If you already know a RealDrum Style that works, try loading a "blank" style and then add each realTrack as you see fit.

I use this method 99% of the time to get a style that works well with what I am looking for.

You can then search the RealTracks for genre, tempo and feel to match closer to what you are looking for.

Trax


Yes Muzic Trax this is what I want to do. How do you load a "Blank" style?

I've tried setting the preferences to open with no song, or style, but I keep getting a blank song with _JAZFRED.STY loaded in the style box.

I then mute the piano, select the realdrum style I want to use, add a Bass RealTrack in that style and Save File>StyleMaker> Save song (except Muted Instruments) as a style, name it and go from there. This is all I need to back up my acoustic guitar singer/songwriter stuff.
Posted By: dga Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/04/16 01:53 AM
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack


Problems with most of the BIAB videos? They are using a very old version of the program. They go way too fast, clicking buttons, moving the mouse to this point and that.. I have to watch the video 5 times, or keep pausing the video looking back and forth between my BIAB version and the video to try and see the label on the buttons, to catch what I need to know. If PG wants people to continue to upgrade each year, change a bunch of these videos to the latest version. Especially the basic ones. I know I was lost watching a bunch of 2009 videos when I was on 2015.
Posted By: AudioTrack Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/04/16 04:16 AM
Originally Posted By: dga

Problems with most of the BIAB videos? They are using a very old version of the program. They go way too fast, clicking buttons, moving the mouse to this point and that.. I have to watch the video 5 times, or keep pausing the video looking back and forth between my BIAB version and the video to try and see the label on the buttons, to catch what I need to know. If PG wants people to continue to upgrade each year, change a bunch of these videos to the latest version. Especially the basic ones. I know I was lost watching a bunch of 2009 videos when I was on 2015.

Yes, it must be a huge task for PGM staff to update videos and documentation every year to keep abreast of the product features. It will be a major task for them for 2017 when they release the all new version with the completely revised and totally updated User Interface...
Posted By: Lee Batchelor Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/04/16 10:06 AM
Quite correct VideoTrack.

Problem is, few companies devote adequate resources to proper documentation--note the word, "proper." In theory, this entire forum should only be about sharing great songs and ideas on how to use BIAB. Most of the forum is devoted to explaining how to use the program. Why? Because documentation is what it is, including the videos. To be honest (and as an old guy raised on Basic A and Fortran), I'm not sure it's possible to easily document everything in a sophisticated program like BIAB. Most applications today are way beyond the average user.

I am a technical writer and technical writing instructor at a college in Toronto. I was shocked when I opened my BIAB product and found a small hardcopy manual! Hats off to Peter and the team for this. The small manual is written primarily in a tutorial style, which is the least desirable of the two most common formats: tutorial and user's guide. The videos help, but all this costs money. It becomes a balancing act between budget and keeping customers happy.

I rewrote several manuals for a Toronto-based company. The manuals described how to use very complex laser guided autofocus systems for microscopes. They employed 23 engineers, 30 percent of whom spent the better part of their day at the Help desk. Why? Because the manuals were garbage. After my two year contract, I had rewritten all their user's guides and reference manuals (a huge task). The Help desk activity dropped by 50 percent.

I tried to get a job at Yorkville Sound as a technical writer. Their engineers and secretaries write the manuals, and it shows. I bought a powered mixer from them and found nine mistakes in the first ten lines of the manual!!

Peter's documentation needs some work, but again, hats off to him for spending some money on videos and documentation. I would love to know what program he used for writing his manuals. I tried opening the online PDF manual (after conversion) into MS Word, and the program crashed! MS Word is pretty poor at the best of times. Peter may have used FrameMaker or InDesign.
Posted By: DrDan Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/04/16 11:37 AM
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
It will be a major task for them for 2017 when they release the all new version with the completely revised and totally updated User Interface...



Tried to slip that one in thinking no one would notice grin.
Posted By: earl kirby Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/04/16 12:47 PM
We noticed. chuckled and moved on.
Posted By: Muzic Trax Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/04/16 09:05 PM
Open the style menu and simply type in blank in the search box. There are 4/4 and 3/4 blank styles which allow Biab to set up with the correct timing. Then you add whichever Realtracks you see fit for your song.

Trax
Posted By: dga Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/04/16 10:55 PM
Originally Posted By: earl kirby
We noticed. chuckled and moved on.


I read it, CHOKED and said no, I can't learn another new thing.
Posted By: dga Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/04/16 11:03 PM
@Lee

When I first purchased BIAB I tried to learn it using the videos, and the helpless files. No luck, finally David Snyder invited me over to his house and showed me the ropes.

Documentation, new help files,new videos are needed. Just the number and diversity of the questions on this forum indicate this.

I'm learning a lot of features by making mistakes, that's not good.
Posted By: Noel96 Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/04/16 11:18 PM
While I've watched a few videos, pretty much all I have learnt about BIAB has come from the manual and playing around. These forums have also been very useful with extending my knowledge.

While I haven't used it, Youtube, and the BIAB users on there, is also another great resource that forum users often refer to.
Posted By: dga Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/04/16 11:27 PM
Where is the manual?
Posted By: Noel96 Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/04/16 11:50 PM
It's in the \bb folder and is called "Band-in-a-Box 2016 Manual.pdf"

In Window 7, there is a shortcut to the manual under the Start Menu and 'Band In A Box' folder.
Posted By: Larry Kehl Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/05/16 12:19 AM
Are we stirring the pot a little early this year? wink

Larry
Posted By: AudioTrack Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/05/16 01:03 AM
Originally Posted By: Larry Kehl
Are we stirring the pot a little early this year? wink

Larry

Well, no good waiting until December. Maybe I was a little too subtle? wink
Posted By: Lee Batchelor Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/05/16 11:38 AM
I agree, DGA. There are two fundamental requirements of good documentation:

* The information must be usable (Written to the correct audience, understandable, and usable by all.)
* Retrievable (Can users find the information?)

Technical writing is probably the lowest priority in any company budget. It takes a lot of convincing to show management that their developers' time is better spent, well, "developing" not answering questions that a well written manual should address. I believe the philosophy is, "We have a computer and a word processor. We can write our own manuals." Nothing could be further from the truth. A computer and word processor are merely tools. If I own $50,000 in cabinet making tools, does it automatically mean can I build fine walnut furniture?

I'm drifting from the original topic, but there seems to be a legitimate concern about the documentation. I will finish by saying, when you let developers write the manuals, you have made a fundamental error--that is, the users' schemata (how they commonly process information) often doesn't match that of the developers'. To write programs and code takes an advanced and logical mind set. Most users do not come close to that type of schemata, hence, anything the developer documents is likely to be totally misunderstood. For the life of me, I can't find my way around LinkedIn and Facebook. My navigational schemata just won't permit it. What does this mean? The folks who built those sites think one way, and I think another. Are they wrong? No, just different. However, their developers have missed the mark. The younger generation usually have no issue with those two sites. I'm 63 years old, which means I was weaned with a slide rule, not a Pentium IV!

I'm not putting in a plug for my skills, however, if Peter is interested (and for the benefit of all) I would be more than happy to perform a usability analysis of the documentation, starting with the online PDF manual. Such a study involves a usability chart developed by my colleague at IBM. It provides a quantitative assessment of "how ready" the document is for release. It also points out specific areas that need to be fixed.
Posted By: DrDan Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/05/16 12:19 PM
Originally Posted By: Lee Batchelor

I'm drifting from the original topic,

I'm 63 years old, which means I was weaned with a slide rule, not a Pentium IV!



OK with me to drift abit. This slide rule comment caught my attention.

You and me are the same age, but besides seeing my Dad with his Slide Rule I never actually used one. High School was a blur and I went to college in my mid 20's. But by then the first wave of calculators was becoming available and I quickly latched on. By my first year in Grad School I had a Commodore 64 which I was writing code to do linear regressions and charting. Can honestly say I have not seen a slide rule since it was in the hands of my Dad who is long passed away - by the way he was an IBM Service Engineer. I wonder what ever happened to that?

Ok, back to topic now. grin
Posted By: Lee Batchelor Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/05/16 01:01 PM
Interesting stuff, Jazzmandan.

By the time I studied at Western (London, ON), I owned a four function calculator with AC adaptor, from Radio Shack. Price - $179.95. It nearly broke my parents. Today, the same unit is basically free.

Sorry about your dad. Mine is gone too (1994).
Posted By: Jim Fogle Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/05/16 03:27 PM
Multiple forum members have technical writing experience. A few years ago a discussion began about how useful the Band-in-a-Box user manual is and the consensus was it could be much better. A few members volunteered to assist in revising the manual but PG Music never responded.
Posted By: Lee Batchelor Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/05/16 04:53 PM
Good to know, Jim. I figured I couldn't be the only TW here smile.

I wonder why Peter and the team would turn down such a generous offer. Perhaps he would prefer to pay us each $65 per hour (LOL). I'm game...anyone else? I could use the folding money.
Posted By: Jim Fogle Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/05/16 10:47 PM
Perhaps PG Music has decided to concentrate on video tutorials more than written documentation. PG Music released many 3 to 5 minute tutorial videos over the last few years and they seem to be very popular.

Another thought is perhaps forum help would come too late. I've noticed PG Music updates both the help file and pdf documentation with almost every release.
Posted By: Lee Batchelor Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/06/16 09:04 AM
Good point about the video tutorials, Jim. I like them too, but as someone mentioned earlier, if the videos are shot with earlier BIAB versions, they may not be as effective. Updating the hardcopy manual and PDF manual doesn't quite wash with me when the same writing errors are made. For example:

* Writing in the future tense
* Misplaced modifiers that cause confusion
* Using condescending words such as simply or easily
* Lack of white space
* Ragged left margins
* No style guide used
* Lack of consistent terminology
* In the hardcopy manual, delete Chapter 3. It talks about all the new features of BIAB 2016. These need to be integrated with the manual in the correct places. Instead, to list all the new 2016 features, issue an online Release Manual, which I believe they did.
Posted By: AudioTrack Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/06/16 09:29 AM
Originally Posted By: Lee Batchelor
Good point about the video tutorials, Jim. I like them too, but as someone mentioned earlier, if the videos are shot with earlier BIAB versions, they may not be as effective. Updating the hardcopy manual and PDF manual doesn't quite wash with me when the same writing errors are made. For example:

* Writing in the future tense
* Misplaced modifiers that cause confusion
* Using condescending words such as simply or easily
* Lack of white space
* Ragged left margins
* No style guide used
* Lack of consistent terminology
* In the hardcopy manual, delete Chapter 3. It talks about all the new features of BIAB 2016. These need to be integrated with the manual in the correct places. Instead, to list all the new 2016 features, issue an online Release Manual, which I believe they did.



All very valid points Lee.

Actually, I think the PGM team do an extraordinary job of producing all of the documentation, help files, videos, manuals and release notes. That's not to say that these could not be improved, but I understand that the effort that goes into these is very, very significant.

I can usually find what I need in the Help or PDF. Incidentally, when used properly, Windows Help is very very versatile. I know a Non-Linear Video Editing company that refused to update their integrated help, instead only developing a PDF manual. The search-ability became next to useless unless you knew exactly the term you were looking for, where Windows Help provides intelligent guesses on other forms of the selected search phrases.


Maybe you could offer your expert services for the 2017 release? It will require a major amendment to all of the User Interface displays....
(whoops, I did it again) whistle

Trevor
Posted By: DrDan Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/06/16 09:45 AM
Reminds me of a band I was once in - "Misplaced modifiers and the Dangling Participles".

Only played one gig, no one seemed to understand us. grin
Posted By: Lee Batchelor Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/06/16 12:52 PM
Good one Jazzmandan!

Trevor, I agree. There was a lot of effort put into the help documentation. We're lucky Peter and his team spent the time to give us the information. A lot of companies just leave you to figure things out by inspection.

It's been my experience that documentation can always be improved, even when written by professionals. When I write a document, I leave it for a day or two, and then go back and review it. My first comment is invariably, "I need to thoroughly review this document for minor errors."

I'd be happy to collaborate with the other TWs in this forum when it's time to write the new PDF manual. The first priority is to develop a style guide. The Microsoft Manual of Style, Fourth Edition is a good reference when documenting the Graphical User Interface (GUI).

I'd even wager, we could reduce the hardcopy manual by several pages, just by changing the future tense to the present tense!
Posted By: GHinCH Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/06/16 05:43 PM
The manual could be improved, yes, especially when the questions asked in this forum together with the forum members' solutions find the way into a new manual.
Posted By: DEddy Re: StyleMaker Question - 06/20/16 08:39 PM
I'm so fed up with the OUTDATED help menu. I've complained for years but it's still the same ... cluttered ...

The next time I upgrade BIAB is when a "new" "revised" Help menu is done.

Signed Frustrated.

DE
© PG Music Forums