Hi gentlemen, I have mention this issue before with no much help. So now I'll ask if any one using the Ketron SD2 or other external sound module have the same problem with playing the midi out of sync in relation to real drums or real tracks. If the issue has been resolved, pleas let me know. This is happening after the 2017 version installation.
Please help with this. I use the Ketron in many of my pieces.
Thanks

Mike B.

Cannot confirm this... I too use the Ketron SD2 as the normal midi set up, and there was no change/problem with the new BiaB...
Bernard

Hi Mike,
I'm having exactly the same problem using my keyboard through the Ketron SD2.

I've been struggling for over a week now... I've done Return to Factory settings a dozen times (both MOST and ALL). I've reloaded BB2017, I've reverted back to earlier Preferences that I've saved - nothing.

I've never had a problem with the regular updates over the last 10 or 15 years, but this one is testing my patience. If I knew that it would work properly I'd revert back to BB2016, which worked perfectly.

I'm using my keyboard through an Edirol UM1x and into the Ketron from there.

Hopefully the Support Desk or one of the forum gurus may be able to help us.

Thanks Keith for confirming that. Nothing worst that believing that one is the only one with the problem. I've done all of what you say with no joy, and certainly wouldn't want to go back to 2016. I hope someone come up with the light on this.
Regards

Mike B.

Hi Mike,
Yes, it's nice to know you're not the only one.
Did you also find that your preferences (metronome, colours, high bank patches etc) had also disappeared? and it seems to revert to the synthesiser rather that the SD2?

What OS are you both using?

I have read on other sites that Win 10 is "upgrading" audio drivers. That means MS has replaced some native audio interface drivers with a generic MS driver. Individuals had to uninstall those drivers and reinstall the native drivers.

good luck.

Have you double checked your MIDI driver selection?

It's possible to have MIDIMapper selected instead of your true device.
If so, it is possible that MIDI is being sent to Windows first, and Windows is in turn routing it to the device output. If so YMMV .. a lot

Your device name may be different than my 'yes' device below, the point is make sure MIDIMapper isn't involved for external gear unless necessary.

Thanks for your responses.

Mario - I'm using Win 7, so the driver issue shouldn't affect me.

Bob - Yes, my input & output drivers are set to UM-1, which is my Edirol interface between the computer, Ketron and PC.

I've also ensured that the "Use VSTi/DXi Synth" box is not checked.

Thank for offering possible solutions.

Bump ..... hoping that someone from Support may see it.

Why wait here hoping for support to read these multiple, disparate threads on topics from puppies to why computer won't boot since installing BIAB V2 for DOS,

JUST EMAIL THEM

explain situation and ALSO reference this thread


and while you and cubanpete wait we can STILL try to figure this out among us users

WHICH REMINDS ME - can you point to a particular factory Demo song I can try to see if I get same drift/timing difference using my various external synths I DO NOT HAVE an SD2 but I do have many others

Larry

You guys ARE USING ASIO not MME?

I just tried this with a factory demo song (in BOTH Win 7 Pro and Win 10 Pro)

Style "J~Easy.sty" and it's demo song "Bluebird - J~Easy.sty demo"

ALL MIDI tracks except RD's.

MIDI routing: computer to a USB MIDI 4x4 unit that goes to my first JL Cooper MSB Rev 2 MIDI patch bay that feeds my second JL Cooper MSB Rev 2 MIDI patch bay then finally out to an Edirol SC-8850

And initially the RD's were lagging badly - until I remembered to check - I still had MME on!

As soon as I used an ASIO driver (I tried both my M-audio FW 410 native driver and the ASIO4ALL driver) timing was good even at 512 samples (buffer size).

Routing to a few other units (all set to GM) no timing issues (XV-5080, Integra 7, QSR, Fantom XR, Montage 7, Alesis Fusion) all on different ports or different MIDI patch bays even thru multiple patch bays (which adds around ~3-5ms depending delay anyway)

Good Luck
Larry

Can you go to Audio | Drivers/Settings, and try adjusting the 'Offset' value. Does that make a difference?

hi Larry the idea of posting this in the forum is that more people would see it thus more chances of a response other than just e-mailing to support. I've been using Win 7 64 for awhile and MME since 2007 with no issues whatsoever.
Andrew I'll try your suggestion next.
Thanks to all

Mike B.

Mike

Apologies - I was painting you and Keith with same brush he sounded like (actual said) he WAS waiting for support to jump in here.

good luck

Larry

I think I may have a solution. I've messaged Cuban Pete and asked him to see if it works for him. if he concurs I'll post it here.

ANDREW jump in an correct.

I have to confess I never played with the offset becasue I have never needed to, still don’t. But here's what I've found (Andrew if he's still around can correct in PLAIN ENGLISH)

Frankly "offset" is not as well explained in the help file as it could have been "Offset," in the Help file says:

" Offset in MS

This is not a setting that gets set automatically. It defaults to zero. This allows you to adjust the timing that the sound card plays audio in relation to MIDI. Normally you'd leave this at zero, but if you need to fine tune the synchronization of audio to MIDI you could try changing this setting."


OK what is NOT explicitly stated, which I think would help clarify in the Help file, is that the "offset" can take on BOTH POSITIVE and NEGATIVE values.


Here's what I found

When using MME:

Using a negative values holds the sound card audio (e.g., a RD 'beat") back by that amount of milliseconds, while the MIDI note-on data leads. I used external MIDI module so as not to confuse/confound this with softsynth latency issues/topics.

using a a zero (0) value (which moves nothing in time) shows the built-in delta between ability to get wav data into the sound card and MIDI note-on data pulse out.

Using a positive values pushes the sound card audio (e.g., a RD 'beat') ahead of, it leads, the MIDI note-on. In my mind, this has to mean that a positive offset DELAYs the MIDI note-on data package from being sent, because you can't trigger the sound card audio any faster than the audio driver & electronics can "fire" irrespective of when sent.

Try it. Put a RD (audio) with just a MIDI BASS (to an external module) and set offset -500 then +500 so you can really hear time delta when setting it negative vice positive.


When using ASIO: It makes no difference (in my case - at least not when using an external audio card).

But there is no real point to retarding or advancing timing (funny - who remembers points, dwell meters, timing lights, timing marks, TDC - LOL) ASIO audio relative to MIDI data because the whole point of ASIO is to allow closer timing of MIDI note-on triggering sound (generating audio) compared to information that is already in audio form (e.g., playing along using MIDI keyboard triggering a soft synth while listing to an MP3 or DAW, already generated, audio in near sync/minimal delay) .


hot air off

Larry

My SD4 got RUINED by the last ROM update, and it is ONLY with BIAB. Ketron was ZERO help. I did find a workaround using a different MIDI in port for recording, but it was not just out of sync... it was STUTTERING with a horrendous noise. Was told not to rollback. I switched to the SD1000 which doesn't have that problem and now use my SD4 for just live performance.

Great sounds... best in the biz, but a small Italian company is not what one looks to for support, especially if it only affects one program (even if it is the best program in the universe.)

I believe there have been a few posts where, after upgrading, MS Offset strangely acquired a value. Returning the value to the zero (0) default "fixed" latency issues.

Well I'm please to report that Mike & I have solved our latency problem, thanks to guidance from Andrew



As Andrew suggested, I changed the Audio Settings offset to 100mS (which also changes the Audio Latency to 100mS) and this allowed the Real tracks & MIDI to align.
Thanks Andrew, and thanks to everyone that chimed in with suggestions.

I have a couple more issues, but I'll start a new subject for them.