After resolving my problem regarding midi dropbox for a single track, I wanted to also save the whole song as midi.. But when I did, only the drum was saved. It was kind of good also since I could not use the drop box for that, because it did not have this green line under it... Why not, btw? Since there obviously IS midi there anyway...

So, do this means I can only save real tracks with midi charts to the dropbox, and not as a whole song midi file? So I have to open those single tracks in another software to get it as a whole song ?

I tried Real Band, but as usual, run into a lot of trouble doing it. That's why I almost never open real band.. When I open one of the midi files, it works, but when I try to add another one, the last one erase the first one. So I tried to drag and drop it, 5 single tracks, but RB did not liked that so decided to crash, twice ! So how do I solve this?

Leo,
When it crashed, did it provide you with any error message that you could send to the developers?


How did you add another one? What steps exactly did you use?

Trygve,

This is normal behaviour. It's how BIAB has always behaved unless you activate the option to save Realtrack charts in a midi file.

This option is found under "Preferences | Realtracks". See the image below.

Regards,
Noel

Ah, thank's again Noel ! It's a bit strange we have to do it, because what does it matter if this check box is checked by default anyway?

I'm not sure why you would not want it, true.

By the way, I just use the File menu and not the drop boxes.

I'm not sure why it's like that. I suspect that by having it so that people have to make a choice would help avoid confusion. My experience is that many new users are confused about midi and audio and a number of people think that saving Realtracks as midi is the way that Realtracks work when, in actual fact, they need to be rendered to audio.

By having the option off, if someone tries to save a Realtrack backing as midi (which often happens on here), they will only get the drums. This then causes them to find out why and to learn about rendering.

Given my experience on here, I think having it off is probably the better default option.

Thank's VT for trying to help me out, but it seems like it crashed so hard that I cannot start RB anymore.. It starts, but just this blue circle spinning and spinning and never stop. So cant replicate what exactly kind of error message was coming up. But it was this kind of boxes ask me if I would like to send an error report a.s.o.

Is there a way to uninstall and re-install BB without going trough BiaB ? Then I will try again...

Well, that's one way to look at it.. I look at it a little different; If someone tried to save it as midi, and it was successful, then no need to ponder about it and go to the forum to figure it out... Then next time they would perhaps wanted to render it as audio, they would probably have no problem at all also...;)

Just my two cent..

No, you're missing a big point. The Real Tracks midi is for notation only. When you check the box to save as a midi file, it's not a regular midi file. You try to play it and you won't hear anything. The reason is a real human had to physically transcribe the RT by listening to it just like we all used to do with records 40 years ago to figure out a part by ear. The person doing the transcribing is then manually entering the notes as notation the old fashioned way, one note at a time. The part was never actually played by a musician using a midi controller to create a midi file. There is no volume, no velocity, no controllers for reverb, vibrato, expressive slides, bends, nothing. Just the notes.

Notes alone won't play as a midi file unless you go into the file and add all that other stuff. Yes, you can add volume and expression envelopes but doing it after the fact produces a pretty fake sounding track. To me that's way too much work to keep tweaking it until it sounds decent but hey, maybe you enjoy that sort of thing. There are folks here who do it.

The Real Charts are simply an answer to many requests asking can we see an RT written out as music notation?

Bob

Well, at least it plays when I export it as a midi file.. I often drop it to the dropbox and import it to the melody/solo tracks to let it play together with the soloist, but on another instrument... Sound cool enough to me, even without all the expression u mention here...

Any way to prevent the styles list from showing any real tracks? Trying to export song with all instruments as midi files and all I get is drums, I did somehow manage to get drums and bass to midi but nothing else, driving me up the wall for about 2 weeks now.. I never had this problem with older versions.. I do lots of very detailed tweaks.. Thanks! /Chris

Welcome to the forums.

Under "Preference | Realtracks", disable the autosubstitute MIDI style option as shown on the image below. That should do the job for you.

Regards,
Noel

So I found a way to disable real tracks in the preferences but now im missing several instruments for different styles, think IM going to call it a night before I do something I will regret.. LoL I should go back to the old old old version about 5 years ago, I could export everything midi! Even "real tracks"! Well at least I dont recall ever having problems before..

Wow! Didnt expect a response thanks so much! Checked the box and Im now my drums are yellow, Im stuck cant get other instruments to export as midi.. I will check this out some more hopefully Friday I have some time.. Thank you I really appreciate that screen pic and the check box makes sense, maybe after a reboot..

If the other instruments' names are in green text then they are Realtracks and may or may not export as midi.

If the text has a line beneath it, that means that there is a notation midi file associated with that Realtrack. To do this, though, you need to activate BIAB to save Realcharts in midi files.

Scroll up to my first post in this thread and you will see the solution you seek.

How good these files will be as midi will depend on the track. The reason for this is that Realtracks are audio files. Any accompanying midi files are transcriptions of the audio, not replications (since midi and audio are two completely different systems... like oranges and eggs).

Regards,
Noel

Bob explained transcriptions (I did some of them) but there are some RealTracks where the notes are from the actual performance. Keyboards are like that. There may be others, where a MIDI controller or converter was used at the time of the recording. But again, no expression etc.

When you export MIDI, there is a selection (click the Options button on the MIDI Save screen) to "Save RealCharts in MIDI Files". If that box isn't checked, then you won't get anything from RealTracks. If it is, and there is a RealChart associated with the RealTrack, it will export as MIDI.

Wow, so now there are some RT midis that were done on a midi controller? That really adds to the confusion now but it's cool though. If a controller was used why wouldn't there be expression it should be a full midi file wouldn't it? Is there any way to tell which one of the RT midis are like that?

Bob

Thanks, John. That's my BIAB lesson for today. I wasn't aware of that option under MIDI save options. I only knew of the one that I mentioned early in this thread under "Preferences | Realtracks" (that one is the global setting and can be set if one wants it on/off permanently).

One thing I noticed when I activated the "Save Realcharts" option, and tested it, was that it took around a minute or so to save the file because BIAB fully generated the song. This makes sense since the song needs to be generated to obtain the Realcharts.

Regards,
Noel

Me Oh My I feel left behind.. LoL.. I have done everything and all I get is a drum and bass midi track, I still have two guitars and an organ that will play in biab but will not export as midi no matter what way I try... I do know BIAB was created for creativity and ideas but if you cant get those ideas out of BIAB then they are being held hostage defeating the founding purpose of BIAB!

I guess that will end some confusion about it...;)
And it also answer why some of my 2016 songs did not contain any midi. BUT, since I just imported that song in RB and then saved it, and imported it in BB again, THEN it had the midi, means in RB this setting is default? That is what it should be also in BB in my opinion. I cant see any reason it should not...

Thank's for posting this jford...

By way of background information, just in case you are not aware of this, Realtracks are audio files and not MIDI files. Audio is the equivalent of a CD recording whereas MIDI files are a sequence of computer commands that drive electronic instruments.

When a backing that uses Realtracks saves as MIDI, it is not saving the audio file. Rather, it is saving a transcription of the audio file that someone has created. This transcription is used for notation purposes. Not all Realtracks have associated transcriptions.

The names of Realtrack are green when loaded. If a track has associated notation then it will have a green line under the name.

If you have a look at the image below, the green names indicate Realtracks, the yellow names indicate MIDI tracks (which will have notation), and since the Strings has a line underneath it, it indicates that there is notation associated with whatever is on the Strings track. The other Realtracks do not have notation.

From what you describe, it sounds like not all the tracks you used had an associated notation MIDI file.

Can I ask why you are saving as a MIDI file? If you want to get the best sound, you'd be better to save as an audio file.

Regards,
Noel

If I recall correctly I thought when real tracks first came out it used midi to trigger sampled instruments, therefore having the best of both worlds. I cant understand how real tracks can work without midi, yet still use the chords I am inputting unless they are using pre-recorded chord progressions and have every possible progression recorded..
I usually export midi to reason, or ableton live and between the two using top end sampled instruments and synths, and then from there I can modulate perimeters that can never be done with audio, and midi also has a much larger range of dynamics which is great for live performance... Audio dynamic range is limited giving more of a karaoke experience rather than the impression of an actual band or band members, and you cant edit anything with audio for the most part its a take it or shove it as it is.. LoL

No. Realtracks have never used midi to trigger sampled sounds.



That's correct. Realtracks are live performances recorded as audio. An artist performs many chord progressions in different keys and with different riffs and rhythms. PG Music then map these chords and progressions. When Realtracks are assembled into a backing, sections of the original recording are are copied, transposed (if needed) and pasted together to generate the backing.

I'm not sure that "every possible chord progression" is recorded but enough are so that it's possible to get most of what anyone wants.

Regards,
Noel

wow sounds like a lot more work, but thanks for the enlightenment..
May I ask a recommendation?
I have a style that fits the feel for a song we are putting together and gives me a pretty good rough draft..
I have searched for other similar styles, but they just dont quite line up with the one I have found to have a nice fit for what we had in mind and what we already have finished.. But all I can get is bass and drums and nothing else. Now I could probably keep the organ as an audio file, but it doesn't sound nearly as good as the organs I have, and I dont strum guitar so I can't play that part, and I think the sound quality of all the audio I have heard is a little rough around the edges.. And of course pitch to midi has its own list of problems. The style we are using is the DREAMYP.STY
Thanks! Sincerely!

Chris

Chris,

I'm heading off to work now. When I get back this evening, I'll have a play around and get back to you.

Regards,
Noel

I think I found something, I had to go to each track and disable power tracks and that turned each on yellow and I only lost the strumming guitar somehow, but I can work this yes!
Thanks!
Chris

oh what the is going on around here.. I used to have almost every style imaginable, and I realized I only liked about 20 of them, so this time I got a little cheap and I bought the lesser upgrade and of course all the styles I like except for 1 are in the mix of several thousand.. Now every other style I pick I get mostly green silence tracks.. I have wasted at least 3 hours with 'silent' instruments. All these unusable styles should not be in the list can I say the F word in here? LoL
It was quite a fiasco getting the midi out and of course it was stripped to extremely basic... I had to go the plugins in the mixer window and choose do not select power tracks..
Now I keep getting errors that I dont have power tracks for this and for that and I get silence tracks, wonderful

Thanks Noel! Hey check this out everybody!
I changed the silent tracks to greyed out tracks now.. I still only hear silence with a very loud F word in my mind. So I dont get it, I cant seem to make them midi now like I did earlier what the heck is going on!

Chris,

You seem to have numerous happenings.

1. When you installed your update of BIAB, I take it that you didn't install into your already existing \bb folder. Given my experience, if you had, then all the styles you had previously would have been retained.

2. In relation to styles you like, from the sounds of things, you've taken the long way around to get those that you like. An alternative approach is to save them as 'Favorites' and then filter them so that only the 'Favorites' show up. To do this...

• Right click on the style and select "Set to favorite" (#1)
• Click on the "Other" filter (#2).
• Select "Show Favorites" (#3).

I've summarised the above on the image below.




3. Grey tracks mean that they have nothing on them. If you have removed the Realtracks from them and you're left with grey, it indicates that there wasn't an underlying midi style.

• In earlier days, BIAB styles with Realtracks were superimposed on pre-existing midi styles.
• In recent days, this approach has been modified and Realtracks no longer need to be loaded on top of a midi style.

If you want to see tracks with only midi styles, do the following...

• Open up "Options | Preferences | Realtracks" and disable the auto-substitution of midi tracks for Realtracks. This is shown on the image below.
  
  
• Now if you load a style that is a midi style it won't be automatically changed to Realtracks.

4. Because you like midi, it will also be worth your while investigating the MIDI Supertracks.

• Styles that contain these Supertracks are found beginning with M_
• Clear the filter so that Stylepicker shows everything.
• Now click on "Name" at the top of the list of names in Stylepicker to sort the list alphabetically.
• Scroll down to M_

If you want Stylepicker to only show those styles that you have Realtracks for...

• Enter Stylepicker.
• Click on "Other" (#1 on image below).
• Select "Show styles with Realtracks/Realdrums that are found/not found" (#2).
• Select "Show styles with Realtracks that are found" (#3).

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Noel

I am having a similar issue. I have all the settings as per Noels pictures, and the RT Guitar part is underlined in the radio button area, I drag it to the render box and the MID box changes colour to orange, and then....nothing!

Tried exporting whole song as a MIDI, again according to all the instructions above, and all I get is the drum track!

joden,

Did you generate the song and let it play for a bit so that the generation had time to complete?

I've found that if the song is not generated, the drag and drop on the MIDI spot turns orange and nothing happens. After generating, it turns orange, then green, and file is in the bb\DragDrop folder.

Just to check, have you tried right-clicking on your BIAB shortcut and choosing "Run as administrator" to start the program? This sometimes makes a difference.

When you say that you have set everything according to my settings, am I correctly interpreting you to mean that you have activated the "Save Realcharts in MIDI files" option under "Preferences | Realtracks". (I've mentioned a lot of different settings in this thread!)

Regards,
Noel

yep did this : "Save Realcharts in MIDI files" option under "Preferences | Realtracks" I'll try generating the song and then have another go at it.

haha, yep that worked thanks Noel, BUT the midi file was nothing like the part in BIAB! just a bunch if randomly plucked notes

Anyhoo that has it on the right track so to speak

joden,

Most of the midi files associated with Realtracks are transcriptions of the Realtrack. These transcriptions have come after the creation of the audio. They are not always exact replications of that audio. One exception are the piano tracks. These are recorded on a Yamaha piano with midi capabilities and the midi and audio is recorded simultaneously.

Regards,
Noel

hmmm, well ok. Although the thing I would say is if they are not accurate representations then they shouldn't really be there haha! Better to not have them at all really, and only have those that ARE accurate!

Looks like checking everything I could find to get the basic midi out resulted in 90% of 'silence' tracks from every style making it impossible to move forward, guess biab is not crazy music man proof! So I load a blank song, and everything works, all styles load and play, reload my song and its back to 'silence' tracks.. Silence tracks? What idiot thought of that? if I want silence I have a mute button.. !

Thanks Noel!
This helps my understanding of how things are now, compared to how they use to be..

I had bb installed on another computer that had an insane appetite for hard drives, I went through five hard drives on one computer, crazy.. So all my original biab stuff is sitting on a dead hard drive, now I have my music super computer built, it has an ssd m.2, no more ancient spinning hard drives for me, I have lost too much stuff..