I am using biab 2017. I recently noticed that the piano track (channel)volume was lower that the others. To experiment, I loaded the same real track (fingerstyle guitar 822) on different channels. The volume on the piano channel is definitely lower even though they are all set at 90. Why would that be, and how can I fix it?
Thanks.

Not sure why the track would be lower but an easy fix is to open Plugins, Select PGMusic Dynamics.

The default selection will raise the volume some and that may be enough. If it isn't, you can either increase the auto gain or the compression threshold.

Up-date. I tried my experiment again using a different style. Now the piano track is the same volume as the others. The problem must have been with the style I was using. Any other ideas?

Thanks Charlie. I'll keep that in mind.

There are occasional volume differences between RealTracks that we sometimes come across. If it's odd or objectionable, you should report it and PG Music will fix it for the next update. Send an email with the RealTrack number to support@pgmusic.com

But your report is weird and nothing I've seen mentioned here before, that the SAME RealTrack on different channels sounds different. The first thing to try is Options, Return to Factory Settings then reboot and restart BIAB. Let us know if it still has this problem after that.

Matt: I did as you suggested but the problem persists. The offending style is _SLBLGRW.STY. (slow bluegrass waltz w/banjo) Piano track has RealTrack 822 finger picking guitar. If I load this same RealTrack to another channel, I notice a volume difference between the two. The same problem exists with NEWLIFE.STY using RealTrack 1701 piano. I'm curious to know if anyone else has experienced this.

What you experienced is quite normal. There is no bug. No extra plugin required. Everything is fine !

Balance between the different parts of a style is made inside the Stylemaker.
You are referring to volume set to 90 for all tracks. But these controls are for MIDI tracks only.

In your case of the _SLBLGRW.STY, you can see in the Stylemaker, that PG music decided to put the volume of the Piano track to -11. Try the value that is convenient for you and save the style. For example try value -6 or even 0. Think also to add some brillance with the tone control in the mixer, for ex. set to 10 value. Your guitar part will shine in the mix !
Go to StyleMaker/Misc/More to do that.

That's how the things work !

Please also refer to the BIAB manual, chapter 14 for more details.

Thank you John-Luke. I suspected it had something to do with the style but I don't know enough about the program to figure that out. I appreciate your input.

I find lots of RTs that are not at the same level at the default 90 setting. LOTS. I simply arrange in my BIAB then send all the wavs to my DAW and sort them out there. Is it me or shouldnt there be a set Standard in the PG studios for Final Level of any / all RTs before they are published?
WendyM

Wendy

Yes, it would be better if there was absolute consistency but I have to imagine this would be difficult to deliver, given the tonality and timbre of so many different instruments.

I agree that mixing to get the balance one desires is always the best way to put the polish that all songs require.

Trev

I think it also really depends on the listener. I did a song awhile back and got lots of positive feedback; however, several sax players said that the sax solo needed to come out even more than I had it (which I thought was pretty loud). It depends on what you are listening for.

Yep... some tracks are recorded lower than others. No big deal since there is a way to turn up individual tracks in BB/RB/DAW

Ultimately, in the final mix, you're going to be raising and lowering the tracks anyway from where they all started.

For the most part, the volume adjustments are not major except for piano MIDI SuperTracks. Those seem to be pretty quiet. Don't forget, for 'regular' RealTrack piano tracks, to adjust the Tone and Reverb as well as the Volume.

One trick is if a track is too soft for your taste, simply insert the PGPeakLimit plugin in the next slot for that track's FX area. Then you have another slider that will boost it even more, and pretty intelligently.

If you then find that certain track becomes a little to 'squashed', move the PGPeakLimit to the main output FX and turn the other tracks down to let that track fit.. use PGPeakLimit to compensate for the overall gain.

If it still sounds too 'squashed' turn up the main physical monitor volume and re-adjust everything else down, working backwards in the chain.

To get back to styles, this is another example that Biab is NOT a DAW, it's a styles based backing tracks program.

With Biab it begins and ends with the styles. John-Luke
has the best answer imho. Don't like the balance of any particular style? Change it and save it.

Bob

Thanks Jazzmammal.

In fact, the message was this :
Rather than opting for sophisticated approach, and speak about limiter and other plugin, let's privilegiate the basics of the things, I mean 'how does it work ?'.

The issue was style related, so I have checked the style in question.

This is pure logic, is not it?

TL,

I've been playing around with styles since reading this email of yours because I've noticed the same as you. I haven't really paid all that much attention to it, though, because I eventually export all tracks to a DAW and mix there. This means that whatever volume the tracks leave BIAB is irrelevant because I adjust the volumes in my DAW.

Inspired by your post, here is what I have discovered...

From what I can deduce, PG Music approach the creation of styles by adjusting the volumes of individual tracks in Stylemaker. These internal adjustments are such that when the final, instrumentally balanced style is completed, the 'balanced' track volumes all show '90' on the Mixer volumes.

The image at the end of this post shows three such adjustments made in the the _ECLIPSE.STY style so that balanced track volumes translate to '90' on the mixer panel. As can be seen, the three volume offsets for the individual Realtracks (1595, 1676, 1539) are +1, -7 and -8 respectively.

Since the above settings are applied to the tracks that host the RTs, any RT that is used to substitute for the above will be affected by these volume settings. For example: if a piano RT is used to replace RT 1539 (where the dB offset is -8 db), then that piano RT will also be playing at -8 db quieter; if, however, were the piano RT added to the track that hosted guitar RT 1595 (where the db offset is +1), then it will sound louder.

While such an approach might seem unusual, it means that anyone who plays around with mixer volumes for any style can always return to the original volume settings for the style simply by adjusting the volumes back to 90. From a user's perspective, this is very valuable.

Regards,
Noel

P.S. Apologies if this has already been discussed in detail. I didn't read through all the above posts. I just posted this on the off-chance that it added extra information.

Noel, that has been indeed mentionned.
See my post #433939 - dated 0/17/17.

You got the same conclusions as me.

It is true that this feature is not very known.
For all BIAB users, to help your memory , see below the description from the BIAB manual :

John-Luke,

Apologies for doubling up. You know about great deal more about Stylemaker than I do. I'm just in the process of learning about it. Hopefully I'll get there one day!

I encourage anyone who is keen to understand BIAB in a little more detail to investigate this aspect of the program. It's incredibly powerful!

Regards,
Noel

You're welcome, Noel.