'change by' with RealTracks in the bar settings still doesn't work.

Hello rcarver,

What version of Band-in-a-Box are you using specifically? When you go to Help | About Band-in-a-Box what is the 3 digit number in brackets next to the version year state? Please also walk us through your exact steps you take in the program and what the exact issue you are experiencing is for best clarity and replication purposes.

Thank you,
Ember

Hi Ember,

I have Build 829 installed using 64 bit.

Trying to use 'change by' in the middle of a song to increase the volume of one Real Track but it does nothing.

Can I send you a couple of files?

I'm pre-release test running BIAB 830 now and it definitely reduces the volume of a Realtrack for me.


As a test can you please try this.

1) Select "File | New".

BIAB will probably load in _WLZJOHN.STY (CountryWaltz Piano Solo [85 RS]

2) Solo the Piano track.

3) Set the song to one chorus. (This is not necessary but will make generating the tracks quicker.)

4) Click on Bar 3, select "Bar settings" and put -50 (i.e. hyphen+50 with no spaces) in the "change by" option.

5) Generate the song.

You should be listening to a solo piano. When it gets to Bar 3, does the volume decrease?

Regards,
Noel

• my latest song: I Will Always Be There

It appears that many of us are confused with how "Change By" works.

Recently, PG Music staff explained:



So the results when using 'Change By' for MIDI will be significantly different to the results for RealTracks. I think that is what you are possibly witnessing.

Hi Noel96,

Just a side note but I don't have _WLZJOHN.STY and I thought I had everything.

Anyways, I did as you suggested and you are correct about decreasing volume but there is no way to increase the volume.

Try your scenario, but start at a volume of 50 and at bar 3 'change by' plus 50 and see if it increases.

Randy

Hi Randy,

What I did below, worked for me.


1) Select "File | New".

BIAB will probably load in _WLZJOHN.STY (CountryWaltz Piano Solo [85 RS]

2) Solo the Piano track.

3) Set the song to one chorus. (This is not necessary but will make generating the tracks quicker.)

4) Click on Bar 3, select "Bar settings" and put -50 (i.e. hyphen+50 with no spaces) in the "change by" option.

5) Click on Bar 5, select "Bar Settings" and put 50 (or +50) in "change by."

6) Generate the song.

= = = = =

Then I tried...

Starting the song with a volume of 50 and setting "change by" in Bar 3 to 50 (also +50).

As you've said, this does not work.

It seems that for "Change by" to increase the volume, there must be a "Change by" that decreases volume earlier in the song.

I'll pass this on to the Development Team.

Regards,
Noel

I have been messing with it and it seems to work (sort of). If I do a 'change by' plus 127 it increases the volume by 10 or 15. If you wanted a dramatic increase in volume, it would take several bars at +127 each to get there (I think you can do multiple 127's). It will require a lot of trial and error to get the volume increase that you really want. I was expecting to see what we had a view builds back when if you did a 'change by' it would show that exact increase in the mixer panel. I don't remember which build that was and I will have to go back and try to find the songs I worked on then to see if they play differently now. So I guess my current question is 'Is the current configuration PGMusic's desired method?'

Randy

PG Music also mentioned:
So hopefully this functionality might be delivered in a future version. That would resolve the issue you are witnessing.

Thanks Noel,

It might have been Build 818 or 822 where it made immediate changes to the mixer panel but I don't know how to revert back, But thanks for your help and confirmation.

Randy

Thanks VideoTrack,

I am pretty sure that we had that functionality in build 818? or 822? or somewhere thereabouts and I was glad to see it. That function was removed, I think, because at the start of the song it didn't recognize a starting mute.

Randy

Randy,

You should have build 818 or 822 saved on your computer somewhere.

To install an older build, simply double-click on it and run it manually. BIAB will warn that it's an older build. If you select "OK" it is installed over the top of current build. I've done this many times when I want to check a previous build's behavior.

I suspect that 818 was the build where it worked. Something I used worked in 818 but not later builds. I no longer remember what it was because it was fixed shortly thereafter.

I have copies of all the earlier builds so if you can't find them, let me know and I'll share mine if you want them.

Regards,
Noel

Thanks Noel,

I did that and Build 818 works Flawlessly. No guessing and completely intuitive.

Thanks again,

Randy

Randy, I can tell you that Noel has been working hard behind the scenes to get this sorted. Many more tests have been conducted and an issue has definitely been identified.

Trev,

I've just been having a look at the work that you've been doing on this. Awesome! Something is definitely not working as well as it could be. You've narrowed it down nicely (and much more thoroughly than I did).

Noel

We did a quick check and found a style called M_WLZJHN.STY with the long name "Country Waltz Piano Solo" and tempo 85. The suggestion could have actually been referring to this style.

Do you know what PAK you had ordered? It is the UltraPAK and higher that includes all of the RealTracks Sets. This does not include the Xtra Styles or MultiStyles PAKs.

I do have M_WLZJHN.STY. Thank you.

>> have been messing with it and it seems to work (sort of). If I do a 'change by' plus 127 it increases the volume by 10 or 15. If you wanted a dramatic increase in volume, it would take several bars at +127 each to get there (I think you can do multiple 127's). It will require a lot of trial and error to get the volume increase that you really want.


F5 Dialog - "Change By"

It works as intended, and works the same way in 2021 as it did in 2020 and years prior to that. No change. We confirmed that by testing current version of 2021 vs 2020 on the same song.

As pointed out, the changes for RealTracks are small, where +127 will give about +6dB. (+30 dB gives 1 dB).
That's something that we can't change, because we want older songs to sound the same.
We can, as mentioned, in the future add a x Use Mixer Volumes for "Change By" Volumes that would use bigger volume changes.

>> Try my test song out with Build 818 and then with the latest build. It definitely worked differently in the 818 build.

Yes. But 2021 build 818 wasn't working like the previous years, as people pointed out, so we reverted that back to the same way it worked in 2020, 2019 etc. Which is only a 6dB change with +127, which is a small amount. Now if you use 829 you'll get the same results as if you were using 2020 or earlier. As mentioned, in the future we plan on adding a checkbox to use mixer volumes for that, and then you can choose if you want a louder response to the change by, or the old way, and not affect old songs.

Yes, I believe this will be a very welcomed feature, and definitely one I would use.

Also, with this feature enabled, the mixer sliders should be able to operate in sympathy to the <F5> bar settings. Such visual feedback would be ideal.

Thank you Peter for that clarification. I find that Build 818 gives me the control that I want and for older songs it is easy, with that control, to make any mods necessary. So, for the time being at least, I will stick with Build 818 and wait for the checkbox you mentioned.

Randy