Mac, I did that. I matched 16/44.1 for everything, but still got the the distorted robot sounds. So, I tried some trial and error with the settings and this seems to be the culprit:

There is a box next to the Audio Driver type that says "Allow IM effects recording (ASIO-only)." I unchecked it and now the audio playback sounds normal. Any ideas about that?

IM means 'Input Monitor' which means the computer was trying to run the input signal thru any DX FX you had loaded on that track while it was recording it (in real time).

That puts quite a load on the system, and if FX are not loaded or not quality FX it creates even more problems.

Yeah, another classic example of just how tricky this stuff really is. It's not anybody's fault it just reinforces the need to be a computer nerd and know the language of audio engineering to accomplish anything. It's also why so many people think a program is buggy when it's not. Trying to emulate a recording studio in your computer is not easy because the programmers have no choice but to use the language of recording studios. If you have no experience at that, then you have to read up on it in order to learn those terms or you wind up frustrating yourself.
Even though a basic PC will work, a higher end one (of course much more money) is better so when someone asks what PC should I get, the answer should be the most powerful one you can afford. The new quad core Intel i7 chip with the latest Asus motherboard is $829 at Newegg. That's only the chip and motherboard, nothing else. I'm preparing to build a new system and I just saw that yesterday but I don't think I'm going to go that much. That's more than a whole bunch of complete PC's but I'm sure it will run many tracks with live DXi effects.

Bob

Problem is, Bob I'm no newbie. I've been doing this stuff for years, using PG products and Sonar. I know what IM effects are and my computer and audio interface are pretty decent. What I don't understand is why unchecking one thing suddenly clears up the problem, when I have yet to even try recording. This is affecting playback of audio and MIDI tracks. I just want to know why it's affecting that.

Because when that is enabled, the input is being run thru effects in realtime. I believe you can sing into the mic and hear the effects even if record is not enabled.. may have to double check that, but I think it does. Even if it doesn't they are taking up RAM and processor attention.
Look at it like It's another service running, and under ASIO which means it is requiring more attention to begin with from the system in general.

So if the computer is running those effects the whole time it IS a load on the system. Maybe switching to a different 'thread' for the processor will help, maybe not.
Only explanation I can think of.

My guess is that it is putting a load on the system. Since it is routing the signal thru the IM loop. maybe there is a effect somewhere that is having a well .... er ... effect.

One thing i have noticed is that PG programs especially yhe PTPA based stuff is sensitive to these things. I can not even get ASIO to play with mine now, and i have used it for years.

Trust me, I know how it is Dan. You can have years of experience but overlook something like this. Yes, live DXi effects definitely puts a big strain on your system. Maybe you never noticed it before because you only had them applied to one or two tracks but depending on your system of course, do that on ten or more tracks at once and see what happens. These sorts of details will drive you crazy sometimes.

Bob

I've now tried this out and tried everything. I don't get it. I have a brand new quad core system with 8GBs RAM. I have a fast Firewire interface. There's no way that IM with effects is straining my system. There's something else wrong here.

With my last, computer - a wheezing old Compaq - I used WDM drivers in Sonar and a mere 1GB or RAM. With that, I got decent latency and had no problems running multiple VST effects when IMing. That was with multiple tracks, synths, and effects running.

Now, with my new system, I can't use ASIO in RealBand with the IM effects monitoring. It won't even work when I'm just playing back tracks with no effects loaded in the mix.

There is something wrong and I don't think it's my "system being overloaded." That just can't be. If my computer is being overloaded, then how does anyone get this to work?

I have problems with Rb and ASIO on my system. It runs the CPU meter in the RED, but with MME it stayt very low. So i use MME.

I just got a new interface that's strictly for bass/guitar. It's ASIO only. Doesn't even have WDM drivers. Works great. It's a Stealth interface by IK Multimedia. Came with my Ampeg SVX Studio.

DanL

in control panel under ieee on your system what fw chipset do you have ??
be aware that lots of fw sound devices like to interface with a TI fw chipset.
this is a known issue with many fw sound devices.
best bet is to ask the manufacturer of your fw sound device
what fw chipsets on the host computer it likes.
otoh this might not be your problem.
just because you have a nice quad isnt the whole story.
sometimes its how the drivers or the fw or the fw sound device control
panel is set up mate.
ive seen on various recording forums where folks have fw issues.
many times its not related to the music software used.
but just a set up issue.
please post a pic of your maudio control panel settings
plus a pic of your rb settings.

I can't figure out how to post pics, so here are the settings...

The IEEE is listed as "VIA 1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller"

The settings for the M-Audio are:

(Under "Hosted Mode")
Synch Source:Internal
Sample Rate: 44.1 kHz
Buffer Size: 1024

For RB (These are all of the choices that aren't MME)

Audio File Type: 16-Bit, 44.1
Audio Driver Type: ASIO
Enable Input Montoring (ASIO only): checked
Allow IM effects recording (ASIO only): checked

Offset in MS: 0
Track Buffer Size: 16384
Input Channel for MONO Tracks: Left
Buffer Size for Edit/Save: 1K Bytes
Audio Temp Directory: c:\Users\Dan\AppData\Local\Temp\
Full Duplex (Record/Play at same time): checked
Quick Volume Change: unchecked
Realtime Effects Enabled: checked

Always record audio too, if current track is MIDI: checked
Backup most recent audio take: checked
Speed Change Quality: TIMESTRETCH_QUALITY_4BAND_SUM
Unassigned Ouput Ports Work As Subgroups: unchecked
Mono Tracks can use effects in Stereo Mode: checked

(Please note that I've tweaked these in various ways to try and get it to work.)

This is one area where PG stuff does not keep up with the 'Big Boys' or even the small boy similarly priced sequencers. Sorry folks. This is a reality I've lived with since about 2005, when I went off of PTPA because I got hooked on live ASIO playthrough with low latency for live playing of softsynths. That was 5 years ago in case you haven't done the math. My drug at the time was CMuzys, which used to come as a freebie DAW on the Computer Music cover CDs. So, it's not that it requires a load of money to get real ASIO usability.

Folks keep saying to switch to MME or WDM, but once you get hooked on live playthrough with ASIO that works, it's really hard to go back to something without that capability.

-Scott

Uncheck these and see what it does for the system

Enable Input Montoring (ASIO only): checked
Allow IM effects recording (ASIO only): checked

DanL
so it looks like you have a non recommended fw chipset.
this is a common problem.
i would ask maudio support which add in TI fw cards they recommend.
then run a test with such. and lets see where you stand.
the whole problem with pc daws is you must set them up
and configure them correctly as well as the pc itself.
this is why prior to purchaseing my pc i made sure i got one with
a TI chipset. let me mention what was weird at the time.
the acer amd duals had the TI chipset but not various brand intels
if i remember. so i got the acer dual.

scott.
with respect you keep on hammering on this topic.
and as ive said mebe there are issues.
but lots of this stuff can be how ones pc is set up.
all i know is someone awhile back a few months was haveing
probs with third party plug ins for example.

so as i have various computermusic.co.uk
plug ins i tried em. and they loaded and displayed fine.
however a couple displayed but no sound from the midi trak
UNTIL i discovered the "trick". and that was correct setting
of the midi channel if i remember and third party plug in settings.
i remember definitely trying cm dominator for example
(great synth) and many others.
thus i'm not sure one can say categorically RB doesnt do certain things.
i didnt have time to try the real time pass thru aspect..
so you might have a point there.
i would love to hear from people if they can do that.
particularly it might be interesting to hear from people with a
new i7 quad powerfull processor.
the reason i ask this is (and not just in pg products) ive seen people
have probs with daws that are well known to have excellent
asio and vst plug in support.
for example its a well known fact that
one daw i know of has had to include custom code so folks can
run certain well known plug ins.
and therein lies the rub scott, for a developer.
in summary , yes mebe there are issues..but its a well known fact also that certain plug ins
have probs of their own. and w7 is a further complication i understand.
one well known daw has even had to add code recently i understand
to protect itself from some plug ins that might crash it.
all i'm saying is one cant ALWAYS blame the host software.
cos there are lots of other factors includeing how well
the plug in is designed.
one other aspect is ive seen folks have probs with running resource heavy plug ins on
clunky old pc's. whereas someone with a new powerfull system might not.
some people ive seen have ridiculous low amounts of memory.
i'm not saying this to defend pg...just suggesting there are lots of factors involved
out of pg's control.
ha anyone got real time playing of softsynths working ??
silvertones for example ..how about you ??
cos if some folks ARE doing real time playing ok then this puts to bed
the idea it cant be done.

I have three interfaces that all work just fine with ASIO in Real Band & BIAB.

manning1,

I'm having a hard time following your post. The chipset issue with IEEE394 devices is not limited to ASIO.

Perhaps I've equated two different things as well; but here IS a reality:

Softsynth playthrough is absolutely here to stay and it becomes more and more of a necessity. You say that I hammer on about this, while at the same time you hammer on and on that you see other people loading up tracks with plugins. Definitely not what I'm talking about.

I'll talk about a single instance of a single soft-synth. Just one. If PG can make that work reliably, then problems like Dan's go away. When I got soft synth playthrough working back about 2004/2005 with CMuzys, it was with ASIO, NOT WDM or MME drivers. If you've ever used any of GSi's physically modeled soft synths of old-school electromechanical keyboards, you will not go back. You know that you need the live feel to get the grunt from the electric pianos and such.

Many people chime in and say that you have to pay more to get that capability and crow to keep costs low with PG stuff. I'm here to testify that isn't the case - it can be had for free with other DAW software that is freeware. It isn't a matter of how much you pay. Many people here buy the yearly $19 or $29 updates. They've spent well over what I've spent on DAW software over the years.

-Scott

scott.
of course softsynth play thru is a reality.
i'm not disputing that mate.
can you provide a link to the softsynths your talking about please ,
so people can test things out ??
perhaps silvertones would be kind enough to test on his rig play thru capability
as asio seems to work well on his rig.

if you remember scott a few years back i stated plug ins would be a problem.
one of the reasons i said that at the time was i felt puter processors were too puny
and not yet powerfull enough those years ago.
to handle the plug in counts that folks wanted to use.
subsequently my own projects (useing plug ins) went from 80 per cent resource useage on an athlon
down to the low 20's when i got a new dual core system a couple of years back.
now of course with i7 processors and their power that stumbling block of puny processors has
been removed now.
i wish you only the best.

silvertones mate.
could you test out real time play thru on your rig please ??
any latency probs etc ??

This is annoying. After all my research, I never heard about a T.I. chipset problem. And even knowing about it doesn't exactly clear it up. In fact, "undesireable" doesn't mean it won't work. Since everything else works, I think there's something else going on. And I might add, I just did a search for a T.I. chipset Firewire card and hardly anything comes up that makes much sense. Where do I buy a new PCI Firewire T.I. Chipset card?

Honestly, I'm very close to packing this thing up and sending it back to GC. While my 30 days has passed, I "stupidly" bought the extended warranty, so I get 60 days. I'm mostly irritated at M-Audio. They should be more clear about what is required. If a T.I. chipset is required then they should say that before people plunk down $400. It's not on written on the box and that's just not right.

BTW, manning, before I pack this thing up, should I be worried about my USB ports now too?

BTW, I'm probably going to try this before I take it back:

http://www.amazon.com/Firewire-1394A-3PORT-2X1394B-1X1394A/dp/B000Z80JY4

I really want to keep the 610, I just want it to work well too.

DanL.
i concur Dan..of course it makes sense to put on the box
that a particular device needs a TI fw chipset.
this is why ive told many friends to always check the manufacturer
of the sound device web site prior to buying.

re...will i get usb probs ??
answer..it depends as always.
some people get no probs..but others do.
so one option is to use one of silvertones
sound device choices n test how well it works for you.

before going further..
what are your needs in a sound device ??
for example do you want multiple inputs n mic pre's built in ??

as to add in fw TI chipset cards, there are many recommended
on different forums i seem to remember.
but make sure you have a free slot in your pc to take such.

fyi i tried very hard in my tips thread in the tips n triks section of the forum
to point out various aspects of daw work n "got yas" includeing mentioning
the TI fw issue if i remember. trouble is its a long thread
n mebe some folks dont have the time.

one thing to be aware of with usb, and FW and pci too...
as i mention in my tips is..if any bus is very busy supporting
other devices and the sound device is on the same bus..
there exists the potential for the sound device to be locked out
by the other busy device hanging off the bus.
thus in summary whatever bus i'm useing for the sound device i ensaure
that it isnt busy servicing other busy devices.
cos this can be one reason why pops n cliks can occur.
cos the busy device can interrupt possibly the sound device.
ps..call me ed. manning is so darn formal..lol.
and god bless.

manning1, please navigate to my favorite softsynths of all time right here:

http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=37

These are the freeware versions of these instruments. Try any of the Mr. Ray's for very authentic, non-sample based Rhodes and Wurlitzer electric piano emulations.

These are physically modeled soft synths - not sample playback devices. They put a nice big load on the CPU, but they sound like heaven. Once I started playing with these back in the day, I simply could not go back to recording midi without the real-time funk that these provide.

-Scott

scott..
perhaps silvertones would be kind enough to try these.
these are synth edit plug ins.
if you notice on the site it mentions possibilities of probs with some configs.
on the reaper forums if you peruse them there are more than a few threads
from users on probs with some plug ins developed useing synth edit.
they seem to work for some people but not others.

if andrew or someone at pg support is reading this perhaps they would
be good enough to try these. n report back.
are you on xp scott with a single processor ??

I can't as I don't have a MIDI controller. The closest I can get is to use my Stealth ASIO only guitar/bass interface and set Real Band up with ASIO and put my Ampeg SVX modeling plug-in into a track. That works fine but it's not really the same.

silvertones.
i dont have a midi controller also.
been selling gear to pay medical bills.

There are indeed some certain brands of FireWire cards that do say that the TI chipset is the recommended one.

I don't know if the M-Audio is one of those cards, perhaps it is not.

Best place to check is directly with M-Audio, on the M-Audio Support Forum.

A quick Websearch using Bing brings up the following ("firewire pci card ti chipset):

http://www.bing.com/search?q=firewire+pci+card+ti+chipset&src=IE-SearchBox


--Mac

I checked M-Audio's site and checked the listed specs for my computer. They match - both say IEEE 1394a. The TI issue is nowhere on the M-Audio product page.

Oh well, I can always try a new card - that's not hard to do. If that doesn't work, I'm taking it back and going USB2. I didn't want to do that, though. The interface that I would buy is $100 more and I don't think it's $100 better.

My friend had a Firewire 410 from Maudio and his Dell lappy has firewire but no way would it work consistently. He sent it back. Bought a desktop and an MAudio Delta 1010.

Personally as much as i have always been a huge M-Audio fan, i would buy focusrite if i bought now due to the great pres they have.

Can anyone point to where the issues with certain firewire interfaces deals specifically with ASIO? I don't think the two are related.

My interface, a PreSonus FireBox, requires use of the TI chipset, but it's not specifically for ASIO to function correctly.

manning1 - I know all about synthedit plugins and problems that go along with those. In fact, I would say that the lion's share of my go-to plugins are SE plugins. I've been using SE plugins since before Reaper was a gleam in the developer's eye.

I do have a few that are not SE plugins, both VST and VSTi, but the main difference one notices is that non SE plugins usually use less CPU. They seem to be typically coded more efficiently than SE plugins, as one of the items with SE is that it's development environment is a higher level language that allows somewhat average programmers to make plugins then compile for use. Not always the most efficient code.

To answer your core question: I use these on both a single core AMD based system that I assembled, and a dual core Intel IBM Thinkpad that I bought. On the single core, I used the plugins with both a SB Live card with KX drivers, and the aforementioned firebox. On the Thinkpad, I've used 3 cards: the internal soundcard with either WDM or MME drivers, the aforementioned Firebox w/ASIO, and an M-Audio Fast Track USB with ASIO.

I will give you a warning - the electric pianos are completely addicting if you've ever played old-school electromechanical electric pianos in the past. You may quickly join in with my concern once you've experienced the joy of playing these without the back-breaking hassle of hauling around a 'suitcase' Rhodes, or a Wurly where you have to screw the 4 silver legs into the bottom of the case.

The non-freeware versions from GSi are definitely optimized from a code/compiled standpoint. I have a few of those that I've won in songwriting contests.

scott..
now i know which plug ins your referring to
you wont get any disagreement from me on the "sound".
a friend of mine has all sorts of plug ins includeing those.
so yes they have a nice sound. i'm well aware of that mate.

but it was technical aspects of synth edit plug ins i understand
that is of concern and sometimes causeing daw probs.
i frankly havent followed
all the probs various people have encountered.
if i remember one aspect was multiple instances and/or multi core
operation ?? but mebe these have been addressed.

as to tI chipset, a far as i was aware most people running studios
know that a TI chipset in the host pc is de rigeur.
some people however have been lucky enough from what ive seen
to use a fw sound device with a non ti chipset.
there seems to be no rhyme or reason for it.
and ive never seen a satisfactory explanation.

i think its prolly best if andrew or someone at pg test out your plug ins
etc etc with RB n other pg products.
i'm just too busy with family n medical stuff frankly.

all the best.

I would like to point out that, even without a TI chipset, the interface actually works fine for most things. With the exceptions of the monitoring problem, regular input monitoring, recording, and playback are great. I could get by fine without the effects thing, but it wouldn't be much fun doing guitars.

I do wonder how WDM drivers would work with the 610 the latest Sonar (which I haven't bought yet). What I find strange is that, in my old computer, I ran WDM for Sonar 5 and MME for PT. I decided to try ASIO when I got RB and was surprised that it couldn't "find" and ASIO driver. I switched over to Sonar and changed from WDM to ASIO and it had no problem running it. I just concluded that Sonar must have been more compatible with the Edirol drivers.

BTW, manning, I really appreciate your help and advice with this problem. I hope your medical and personal issues get better soon!

Dan

DanL
well this gets more interesting by the day.

please confirm..
you said...
"I would like to point out that, even without a TI chipset,
the interface actually works fine for most things.
With the exceptions of the monitoring problem,
regular input monitoring, recording, and playback are great."

IS THIS MAUDIO PER THE ABOVE WORKING FINE IN RB ??
OR...are you talking sonar when you stated the above ??

are regular recording and playback working fine in rb ??
useing asio ??

now to the next question.
am i correct in thinking what your trying to do is the following ??.
1. load up a guitar amp emulation plug in.
eg vintage whatever.
THEN..
2. play your guitar and have for example the vintage sound of the plug in
actually live recorded on an rb trak while your playing.
is this what your trying to do ??
please confirm.

in summary you want to wail away on your guitar useing
various presets in the plug in for example, and have this recorded ??
is that what your trying to do ??
if so...what guitar amp soft plug in are you useing ??
please provide as much detail as possible on what your trying to do mate.
so you want to plug your guitar into the maudio..
(does it have a proper input for guitar or bass ??)
then wail away useing a plug in and have that recorded ??
(ps..re my personal stuff..cheers..just lifes ups n downs.)

It works fine in RB, with the exceptions of input monitoring with effects (either DXi or VST).

1. I plugin the guitar to the 610, launch Guitar Rig (standalone) with ASIO. It works perfectly. I can here each amp and effect, with no noticeable latency.

2. I go into RB and load up Guitar Rig. I checkmark the "Enable Input Monitoring (ASIO Only)" box, but leave the other box unchecked.

3. I can record and hear the guitar, minus Guitar Rig's amps/effects while recording.

4. If I check mark the other box "Allow IM effects recording (ASIO Only)," I can still here the guitar, but no effects.

5. If I playback something that I recorded, I get the terrible noise.

6. I uncheck the "Allow IM effects" box and play it back. It sounds fine - I can hear the guitar and Guitar Rig amps/effects.

DanL
whoa there pardner mate.
i might be wrong , but i suspect heres where your problem is.
your recording a trak WITH guitar rig amp emulation , but when
you play back you STILL have guitar rig instantiated on the trak.
so RESULT IS your adding guitar rig AGAIN to the trak cos guitar rig
is STILL UP N RUNNING. so your overloading .
TRY THIS INSTEAD. A TEST.
1. record with guitar rig to a rb trak.
2. NOW MOVE THAT RECORDED TRAK to a spare free trak.
dont put guitar rig on that spare trak.
just move the recorded trak to the spare trak.
solo after move. do you now hear the trak properly ??

you see what i think your doing is doubling up guitar rig
the way your working currently.
difficult without being there mate.

it sounds to me in fact that your maudio is working fine with
your via fw chipset even tho a TI is recommended.
mebe your one of the lucky ones.
but your problem is guitar rig is still instantiated after recording the trak.
this is a trap many fall into if i read you correctly.
what you SHOULD BE DOING IS...either get rid of guitar rig on the trak you just recorded
OR TRY THIS WAY.
lets say you want to lay down 3 rhythm traks.
1. label a trak guitar rig recording.
2. label 3 more traks...rhythm take1, take 2, take 3.
3. record each take to the trak labelled guitar rig recording..
THEN move the take to the appropriate free trak.
see what i'm getting at ??
tell me if this method works.
all the best.

DAnL...
PLEASE CLARIFY.
are you trying to record thru guitar rig to a trak but not actually
record the amp fx in guitar rig ?? is this what your trying to do mate ??
so after you record essentially your guitar BEFORE guitar rig..
you then want to twiddle with guitar rig on the trak n try different amps etc etc n settings ??
IS THIS WHAT YOUR TRYING TO DO ??
IF SO...look at your recorded waveform...IS IT TOO HIGH ??
mabe the playback level is too high for the plug in input.
I NEED TO KNOW IF YOUR RECORDING WITH OR WITHOUT AMP FX.
i'll check back in a coupla hrs..i need me breakfast lol.