Using EZ Drummer in BIAB and Real Band

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Can I still quickly and easily build a drum track by dragging and dropping groove and fills from EZD?

I don't use EZD but if you are using the correct terminology here and are referring to actual midi file "groove clips" that are stored inside a folder in EZD then yes, you can do that because a 2 or 4 bar drum clip is just another midi file and RB will handle those just fine and you can load one of those up and copy and paste it to fill up your song. BUT and this is important, if you're talking about EZD generating and recording a midi drum part as the music is playing, that's what RB doesn't support. Simply setting both to the same tempo doesn't help at least with my Jamstix it doesn't. What it does support is using EZD as a sound module to play back an existing midi drum part like one created by Biab or simply a midi file you found on the internet. This is still very useful because Biab has thousands of styles and each one has it's own substyles. Each style is capable of creating a different midi drum part and by using the chord grid you can put fills and/or a substyle wherever you want. Think of it as using the Biab "brain" instead of the EZD "brain" to create your drum part. Another thing, those Biab parts were created by a live drummer on a midi drum kit and sound great. EZD can be set up on one track or several different tracks to play those Biab created midi drum parts. RB allows you to cut and paste different sections of several tracks if you want to create one good part.
Yes it is annoying to me and others that RB won't let us use the brains inside these VSTi's to create separate parts but Biab is also an excellent drum machine in it's own right. Still, it won't allow me to easily go into the drums and change just the hi hat part or the the kick like Jamstix will without actually editing the style and that is clumsy when I just want to hear what a particular change sounds like. JS has killer controls to change a part using individual drums, velocity, manage the weighting between the kick and snare or other parts, all kinds of cool stuff and right now that won't work in RB.

Bob

Thank you for the detailed reply. I took a chance and purchased EZdrummer and I am using Powertracks Pro to try and create a midi track from the groove clips. This does not seem to work for me. I can't preview the grooves or drag and drop them into a track from the plug-in. I can however direct a midi track to use EZdrummer for the playback. I guess I need to find another solution to build the drum track as a midi file using EZdrummer, then import into Powertracks. Suggestions welcome, freeware would be great.

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/index.php

It doesn't get any better than that. I'm an EZD user and I just got Biab and RB. Not sure how I'll integrate the whole thing yet. What I'll probably do is assemble all real tracks in real band, setup a project in reaper at the same tempo, dump all real tracks out to reaper including a drum track if I use a real track drums part, match sounds a bit if I like what the real track drums are giving me, and then build an EZD performance to replace the real track drums. I'm too new at real band to know if you can import a stereo wav file into RB. If so, I'd build the EZD track in reaper, then import the wav file onto a track in RB. You can even make wav files out of each piece of the EZD kit in reaper and then import each one into RB, giving you multitrack drum control. IF RB can import wav files....

Dan

"Audio - Import wave file" command works great here.

I was considering purchasing EZD, but after the problems I had with EZmix From Toontracks, I don't think I will. At least for now. I believe the EZ products and some of the other Toontracks items seem very good. However the VST in EZmix (and I believe EZD and perhaps all other EZ products) does not function proprely in RB. I dicussed this issue with PG and Toontracks. PG was in direct talks with Toontracks, and Toontracks said they would not change their VST formate to work with PG because their VST works with other programs. PG said at this time they are not going to adjust to work with this companies VST's. I sincerely hope PG does at some time get this VST issue fixed. All the PG products I've used are great, but can always be better. I think that PG is alway striving to reach that goal.

Milwaukee Mike

Thanks to all for your input.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=2046935&mpage=1#2047396

Above is the link for the discussion at Cakewalk.

In short the problem was a file management problem.

C5's TTS-1 is OK as midi sounds go, and because it's an softsynth it's easier to turn the midi track or tracks into an audio track, and it's also faster. However, there is absolutely no comparison to the great sounds not to mention 3x the number to choose from (ie 3 different trumpets etc) on the SD2.

The reason I did purchase the program C5 was not for the Soft Synth but for the way it handles VST plug-ins. Real Band and PT do have issues with some 3rd party VST's.

Anybody out there using the PG products and other Programs such as C5 please provide your input. I would still like to know the differences, before I invest more time in C5 only to find out there is something (easy to use) better.

Milwaukee Mike

I have both the PG products and MC5, I also have MTS which i think is the best DAW on the market. RB and PT both do not fully handle VSTis like EZdrummer and Jamstix, but it is never a bad thing to have one more program in the tool box to handle thoses situations. No one program does it all, or even does it all well. When i want to use Jamstix, i pop into MTS, but for other things i use RB. If I am making a song and using BiaB or Rb to create a midi drum track, Jamstix will follow that just fine in RB, but if i need Jamstix to create the drum track, I use MTS.

Look MC5 is a low cost option to run along side RB, BiaB, and even PT. It offers two nice tjhings to make a tool kit somewhat more complete. full VST and VSTi implimentation, and TTS as a better Sampler for basic midi. Use them all get familiar. You will find that they are all similar.

One more thing i recently discovered is that MC5 can add lyrics to a midi file karaoke style and that is a cool feature.

Originally Posted By: Willow

I have just purchased EZDrummer ...... There was a problem in that each time a pattern was dragged and dropped from RB the previous pattern was deleted ....

Still has the same problem along with Superior, Addictive, EZPlayer etc...

It seem they have to be in MIDI 1 not MIDI 0 format to drag n drop without erasing the previous. To get preview sound I had to use VSTHost

So to convert the EZDrummer etc.. from Midi Type 0 to 1 use NAudio Midi File Converter http://naudio.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=MIDI File Converter you can download here NAudio_MIDI_File_Converter.zip as they only had the source code I had to build it. So after it has converted them to Type 1 rename the org "Midi" folder "Midiold" then put the Type 1 in a new folder "Midi". There is also a Mapper to map standard midi drums to EZ etc.. http://midifilemapper.codeplex.com/documentation?referringTitle=Home
VSTHost
EZDrummer in RealBand.MP4
EZDrummer in RealBand.WMV

Or open the track into RB, select 'Track-Save track to file' and save it as a MIDI file (*not a Type 0 MIDI file).
This should save it as a Type 1 MIDI file.

Usually works for me.

miketm, Robh and anyone else interested in Cakewalk Music Creator, available from PG Music or Cakewalk

Cakewalk was recently purchased by Gibson and Cakewalk is being positioned as the flagship name for consumer products with Sonar as the flagship name of the professional grade products.

Cakewalk currently offers two Music Creator products: version 6 and Touch. Version 6 is available from both PG Music and Cakewalk (though you really have to hunt for it on Cakewalk's site) while Touch is available from Cakewalk.

Both versions utilize the Skylight GUI interface so workflow differs greatly from version 5 and below. Both use the 32 bit sound engine borrowed from Sonar.

Touch will not load onto a Win XP or below operating system. I have both version 6 and Touch (actually called version 6 Touch when it first came out and offered as a free upgrade to owners of version 6) and running the exe file results in an error message. Touch works on Win 7 and above while version 6 works with XP and Vista. Touchscreen capability is not needed to use Music Creator Touch.

Two enhancements made me decide to upgrade from version 5; the step sequencer and loop matrix. The step sequencer was rebuilt from the ground up and is now much easier for me to understand how to use it. As the name implies, loop matrix lets you put loops into a matrix so you can get a feel for (vertical) instruments blend together or (horizontal) how adjacent loops mesh.

I strongly advise anyone considering purchasing Music Creator 6 or Touch also consider purchasing the Groove3 Music Creator 6 video tutorials . For less than $50US can you purchase a DAW that complements PG Music products but also more than four hours of great video training on how to you this DAW in particular or any DAW in general.

Also, for those that may have purchased Music Creator from BestBuy in the past, they have dropped the product from their physical and online stores.

Originally Posted By: rharv

Or open the track into RB, select 'Track-Save track to file' and save it as a MIDI file (*not a Type 0 MIDI file).
This should save it as a Type 1 MIDI file.

Usually works for me.

33,000 Good luck with that.

Jim i cut my teeth on Music creator, having used versions 1, 2.3, 3,and 5 which i still have. But i never enjoyed tracking in it.

It is a decent program, but for me no better than RB is here. Sure it allows use of jamstix timing lock, but i own Sonar X-1c which is MC's big brother. I also own Presonus studio one v 2 Producer, and they are far ahead of MC 6 in features.

Most of the MC products are usually one or two versions behind their Sonar brethrn in terms of production. MC6 is just getting skylight, but Sonar has had it since X-1 so really MC is Sonar X-1 lite.

If you really want a deal, and are a MC 5 owner you can upgrade to Sonar X-3 for the same $49 and have far more than MC offers

http://www.store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=10-CXSR3.00-30E

Robh,

I hear you. I started with MC2 and advanced through 3, 5 and just upgraded to 6 last October only because BestBuy was offering the box version of MC6 for $19.95. My wife found a $10 promo code so my cost was $9.95. Too good a deal to pass up. Cakewalk offered a free download of Touch so I got it too even though it won't work on my computer.

My brother loves Presonus Studio One.

Sonar X3 looks great but it also won't run on my computer. A new computer with Win 7 or Win 8 is in my future but I'm gonna enjoy what I've got for awhile longer.

A little mustard after the meal as they say over here.

Regarding VST plugins: Today my work routine in song construction & composing is that basically i would start a song or idea by having a melody put into BIAB with some chords and mess with song construction. Then try some styles, and if i found something useful there and to my liking, i export RT wavs and the eventually present MIDI to Cubase. BTW the BIAB live drums do sound great at times as they are, but mostly unusable for a final mix IMO because of reverb present in the live drum tracks coming from BIAB (even with export set to "dry" etc). So in Cubase i replace them mostly with EZdrummer or maybe Groove Agent, and do a lot of editing to boot. My biggest nag with this way of working is that it eats tons of time, especially when you change the arrangement later, and have to go back to BIAB and redo a lot of exports.

Sometimes the RT-wavs are not generated correctly with an occasional wrong chord, and also when you use 2/4 bars inserted in a basically 4/4 song. Occasionally stop/hold files are not correct or missing. Workaround: at times i generate separate chords, stops and holds in a separate BIAB "song" and add/edit them in Cubase. PS i am not too fond of Realband BTW, slowish rendering and cumbersome shifting of audio file positions compared to Cubase, and less control in regards to timing and WAV mutilation. But the BIAB exported results are sometimes worth all this mayhem LoL.

Besides all that: I stopped complaining about the impossibility to slave BIAB to an external midi clock or even MTC signal years ago. IMO a real miss ... - F

Hi fiddler2007
"BTW the BIAB live drums do sound great at times as they are, but mostly unusable for a final mix IMO because of reverb present in the live drum tracks coming from BIAB (even with export set to "dry" etc)."
I am able to save the biab .SGU file without reverb, then convert to .wav using the file menu option, not the dropbox, and get dry tracks to import into other programs. I also set the song to not have reverb on any tracks, then save it as mysong-dry.sgu. Then convert to .wav.

"Sometimes the RT-wavs are not generated correctly with an occasional wrong chord,"
This gets frustrating I know. I haven't had the issue in RB but yes in BIAB2016. Freezing all tracks except the offender (usually Strings track) then regenerate until I get something acceptable. Or something acceptpable in that bar of the song. Convert and export/import into DAW on separate track then cut/copy/paste/smooth cuts onto one track.