Live recording in RealBand - PG Music Forums

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Hi....while I've been learning how to make backing tracks in BIAB and also bring them into RB for adding more midi instrument files or already existing audio files, I'm a total novice when it comes to the idea of recording something "live" into RB.

I've made a few tracks in both BIAB and RB and now want to try to add myself both vocally and on my horn(I'm a trumpet player) to make a demo CD,etc. Is RealBand like a recording program to be able to do this?(not that I'm knowledgable on those either,heh) If so, what do I use to plug mics into and/or where would that plug into the computer? Am I able to have "playback" of the existing song while I record?

Any suggestions or help is greatly appreciated.

thanks,
Phil

Indeed. This is exaclty how I use Real Band. Do the arrangement in BIAB, then bring it into RB to add my 'live' playing parts, vocals etc.

You will need some kind of interface between your mic, guitar and the computer. Check into M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Tascam models.. both make USB interfaces that should work well with Real Band. You will need to use ASIO drivers for low latency during tracking the live stuff along with your tracks.

More detailed info will follow soon by the more veteran type guys.

http://m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackPro.html

http://tascam.com/product/us-144mkii/

Yes you can have playback at same time, as long as 'Full Duplex' is enabled in the audio options (it's been many years since that was an issue on most systems).

Is it a desktop or laptop? This will affect choices. Do you have a PCI slot available (if desktop)
Do you have a USB 2.0 port available if a laptop?
Need more info to recommend anything, but you will need a soundcard device to record into, and one that can accept a mic (unless you have a mixer laying around and I'm guessing you don't).

Yes, Realband is up to the task. I've recorded as many as 16 tracks at once doing 'live' recording.

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Indeed. This is exaclty how I use Real Band. Do the arrangement in BIAB, then bring it into RB to add my 'live' playing parts, vocals etc.

You will need some kind of interface between your mic, guitar and the computer. Check into M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Tascam models.. both make USB interfaces that should work well with Real Band. You will need to use ASIO drivers for low latency during tracking the live stuff along with your tracks.

More detailed info will follow soon by the more veteran type guys.

http://m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackPro.html

http://tascam.com/product/us-144mkii/

Thanks for all this. Again I'm a total novice still, but I DID figure out how to add an old mp3 horn track to a BIAB rhythm track I made. Had to cut/paste and adjust tempos to get em to match,heh. So I figured there HAD to be a "next step" to being able to record on this thing,heh.

Phil

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Yes you can have playback at same time, as long as 'Full Duplex' is enabled in the audio options (it's been many years since that was an issue on most systems).

Is it a desktop or laptop? This will affect choices. Do you have a PCI slot available (if desktop)
Do you have a USB 2.0 port available if a laptop?
Need more info to recommend anything, but you will need a soundcard device to record into, and one that can accept a mic (unless you have a mixer laying around and I'm guessing you don't).

Yes, Realband is up to the task. I've recorded as many as 16 tracks at once doing 'live' recording.

Well...I have to learn about "full duplex" too I think,heh.

I have the BIAB 2010.5 with it's RealBand attached program,etc. I'm also on a regular desktop and a couple USB ports on the front of the tower available,etc. I DO have "Soundblaster" for my sound on the computer so BIAB/RB has been playing I think through that,etc. It also does have a "mic" input channel of sorts but I've never used it before,etc. My BIAB and RB are on the desktop so I don't have that other newer set up with the separate hard drive,etc.

Phil

Yep, there's always that 'next step'... the guys around here will be your crutches ! rharv and others will still want to know more about what you currently have in order to make the proper recommendations for your unique situation. I made some generic ones based on my use (laptop) so I use the USB type sound cards. You have more options if you use a desktop computer... do you have speakers ? You'll need to use headphones when recording live parts that require a microphone... so headphone option on the interface may be important etc, etc.

I strongly suggest the M-Audio Fast Track Pro. It will give you 2 inputs and 2 outputs, and easy interface through USB. You would then just connect a mic or line cord to the interface and play onto an empty track. Select an empty track in Real Band, and then click "Record Audio (is that what the button says?) and play your parts. At that point it's just another track to the computer.

In my case those two inputs were fed by a 16 channel mixing board where all my "manual" instruments are connected, but that's just my case. Many ways to do anything and the users here have all had success with many methods.

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Indeed. This is exaclty how I use Real Band. Do the arrangement in BIAB, then bring it into RB to add my 'live' playing parts, vocals etc.

You will need some kind of interface between your mic, guitar and the computer. Check into M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Tascam models.. both make USB interfaces that should work well with Real Band. You will need to use ASIO drivers for low latency during tracking the live stuff along with your tracks.

More detailed info will follow soon by the more veteran type guys.

http://m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackPro.html

http://tascam.com/product/us-144mkii/

Man....just checked with Best Buy on that M-Audio one....$149 bucks?..... heh. One of the music stores I teach at has a used Alesis interface with two mic inputs for like $70?

Phil

If you can get by with only 1 input...

http://compare.ebay.com/like/11078885438...gsi=y&cbt=y

...or I'd sell you mine if interested (PM me)

You need to make sure whatever you buy has ASIO driver support, and outputs to speakers etc.

if you can live without 24 bit audio, here's a 16 bit device that is the least expensive audio interface I've found (under $35) :

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-uphono-ufo202-usb-audio-interface/476149000000000

You can buy them separately at this price, and they also come bundled with a lot of different Behringer products such as mixers

I'm pretty sure there are ASIO drivers available for it. I got one bundled with my Behringer Xenyx mixer. It was easy to set up... just plugged it into a USB port and windows recognized it as an audio interface. It showed up in my list of ins/outs with no hassle.

On the other hand i always suggest not scrimping on the interface. It is truly the heart and soul of the system. everything comes and goes from there. Having a solid stable interface or card is a life saver.

I have used a M-Audio 24/96 card for years, and never have issues. I recently bought a Tascam US 800 USB interface, and while it works pretty good, it is not as trouble free as the card. Figure out what you want. Do you want to record alone, or with others that will determine how many inputs, then what kind of attachment card, USB, or Firewire. Buy once record forever.

Does the 24/96 have XLR mic connections? He (OP) may need that ..

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Buy once record forever

in my experience, the physical electronics tend to outlast the technology curve.

even when (especially when?) you buy good stuff, something more desirable will be available long before it wears out.

My current strategy is to buy the less expensive item that's good enough to get 'er done, with the expectation that I'll trash it when I outgrow it and buy something else that is better than what I had, but which is cheaper than the current state of the art toy because now it's a year old (but still within the product life cycle)

(I hope my high school grammar teacher doesn't monitor the forum.. that last sentence was an embarrassment!)

You are right Pat, technology changes very rapidly. I want to build a new desktop but also want to keep my Delta 44 which is a PCI card. Alot of the new motherboards don't have a PCI slot. USB 3 devices will be the next new cards to hit since they will be 10 times faster than USB 2.0
Brian

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even when you buy good stuff, something more desirable will be available long before it wears out.

So true. My keyboards are all late 80s vintage and I will not buy new. All the new stuff boasts about being so "everything in one" that it takes an advanced degree to figure them out. Terminology is not universal. I want to be able to hit internal sound bank, group 1, and know that the second button on the top row is that killer organ sound that Ensoniq was famous for. The ESQ-1 was my learning curve keyboard where I learned about building block song structure. Bass goes here, piano on the next track, strings on the next, organ on the next, etc.... save it as a song, send MIDI clock to the drum machine.... done.

Just like what we do in Real Band on a computer screen!!

The new Korg Kronus... AMAZING unit. And if I buy one, I will tell you in 14-15 months how it works, because it would take me that long to learn it. WAY too confusing. I wonder how long Jordan Rudess had a prototype before he did the demos at the NAMM show.

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Indeed. This is exaclty how I use Real Band. Do the arrangement in BIAB, then bring it into RB to add my 'live' playing parts, vocals etc.

You will need some kind of interface between your mic, guitar and the computer. Check into M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Tascam models.. both make USB interfaces that should work well with Real Band. You will need to use ASIO drivers for low latency during tracking the live stuff along with your tracks.

More detailed info will follow soon by the more veteran type guys.

http://m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackPro.html

http://tascam.com/product/us-144mkii/

Phil,
YOU DO NOT NEED ASIO DRIVERS TO RECORD IN REAL BAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trying to use ASIO will set you up for failure.You will have no latency while monitoring through the interface.

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You will need to use ASIO drivers for low latency during tracking the live stuff along with your tracks.

Why does everybody push ASIO drivers?

Latency comes from disturbing the OS running in the background, like a mouse movement or a keystroke would send an interrupt message to the OS. These are called IRQs (Interrupt Requests). When you move a mixer with your mouse, you will get a latency event. However, while recording an extenal instrument, you are not playing with your mouse or keyboard.

This is the way computers have worked forever. Your CPU is sitting there cycling undisturbed asking "Have any work for me? Have any work for me? Have any work for me? Have any work for me? How about now?" until you give it "work". Tap the space bar, roll the mouse, poll for mail on your wireless network.... once you give the OS a "job" to do, it momentarily pauses what else is going on to do it. In 99.99% of the cases that pause is so fast it is imperceptable. However, with music playback, should you use your mouse to boost or cut a slider on a channel, that IRQ will cause a "burp" in the sound being played back. NEITHER driver will eliminate that. It CAN make the latency gap so small you don't notice it, but it will happen every time you send an IRQ. That is NEVER zero latency. And before 17 people tell me how they have no latency, let me repeat that it may be .00000000000000001 nanoseconds, but it is there all the time.

This is why I traversed the long and winding road (and forum threads) of adding hardware that allows me to mix on a mixer and off the computer. When I record or play back I do not touch the computer running Real Band other than to start it and stop it. Volume changes can come later. I can move sliders on my mixer all day and night and I do not disturb what is going on in the computer.

Bottom line, your MME driver with the latency buffer at about 500 and "Quick Volume Changes" enabled should make the latency so small you won't hear it.

The thing that is hard to remember is that you can't play sloppy like Bob's garage band and expect it to come out sounding like the digital remix of Sgt Pepper.... you need to have an ear for EQ and when to (and when not to) add effects.... and experiment. Experiment with your hardware, your software, and your skills.

Yea Eddie, the fact is Windows is, and has always been, broke.

They should have borrowed more than they did from unix/xenix/linux and the 300 or so variants. All of them allow you to attach priorities to fix that issue.

I disagree on keyboards. I have 4. I got a Korg Ps60, straight forward, great horns/strings, organs. You can lift it with 2 fingers. I've had it over a year and not opened the manual yet.

EVERYone needs a good up to date USB mixer, but unless you are mic'in drums or recording more than a 2 piece band you don't need a 16 in hardware solution.

IN fact, when Peter first put in the ability to record in Band in a Box the examples were using the cheap mic built into a laptop. And it sounded not bad.

Unless you've a drawer full of cash (please pm me for where to send some

)incremental is the way to go. Next thing you know you have a board the size of a car, and U2 are sitting in your house waiting to record and all your beer is gone again.

Latency is the round trip time it take for sound to travel thru the system from the sound card/interface into the software, and back to the sound card/interface to exit to the ears. MME drivers do not have the speed compensation for this that ASIO drivers do. One thing to remember when PG product say MME they actually use the updated WDM drivers which are faster than the older MME, but still do not compensate like ASIO does.

ASIO4All on the other hand wraps the WDM drivers and makes them function very much like ASIO.

WDM drivers can be very fast if set to be so. ASIO gets a higher priority in the system though

I will also add that that MME/WDM is limited to only 2 channels input. For instance on my Zoom R16 I can record 8 inputs at a time. ASIO supports true 24-bit samples, unlike Windows MME and DirectSound which only pass the upper 16 bits. True 24-bit samples offer the potential for a higher signal-to-noise ratio.
One caveat is that, since ASIO is now such a popular format, some manufacturers only release WDM drivers with limited I/O support.
Brian

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I will also add that that MME/WDM is limited to only 2 channels input.

Really? Someone should tell M-Audio that, since I record 8 at a time using MME quite often using Delta 1010lt..

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I will also add that that MME/WDM is limited to only 2 channels input.

Really? Someone should tell M-Audio that, since I record 8 at a time using MME quite often using Delta 1010lt..

Number of channels is not LIMITED by WDM.It's up to the manufacturer. I use multiple WDM with my Audidgy card.
I do wish though that the not so experienced stop telling the even less experienced users that YOU MUST USE ASIO.
Once again. You only NEED ASIO if:
1. You are using effects in real time while recording
2. You are playing a soft synth in real time with a controller
3. Your card only supports multiple ins/outs with ASIO

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I will also add that that MME/WDM is limited to only 2 channels input.

Really? Someone should tell M-Audio that, since I record 8 at a time using MME quite often using Delta 1010lt..

Bob yes there are some manufacture drivers that do support this. My M-Audio Delta 44 does not, as well as my R16. Anyway whatever works for everyone.

Quote from Wiki

MME lacks mixing multiple audio streams during playback and device sharing, so only one audio stream can be rendered at a time. But some sound card drivers can emulate more than one MME device so it could work with MME too. MME supports up to two channels of recording, 16-bit audio bit depth and sampling rates of up to 44.1 kHz with all the audio being mixed and sampled to 44.1 kHz. Wiki

Yeah, but, we are really using WDM drivers. The MME name is from years ago. PGMusic continues to use MME label where WDM would be used.

WDM allows Directsound to be used.
Another quote from wiki-
DirectSound is a software component of the Microsoft DirectX library for the Windows operating system. DirectSound provides a low-latency interface to the sound card driver and can handle the mixing and recording of multiple audio streams.

Correct Bob I should have not included the WDM along with the MME. Also it is my R16 that cannot have multiple inputs with the WDM not my Delta 44. I use the same driver as you do on the 1010.
Brian

Not a problem, just trying to keep information clear, since you don't need ASIO to record multiple tracks. The MME setting (actually WDM) will often work fine.

I'm using 1010 on Win7 64 and it seems to be working fine with both ASIO and MME. Actually I find some things (like VST's) that claim they will not work in Win7 64bit, will indeed work. Maybe I'm just lucky that way sometimes.
'ParMeter' is one of my favorite metering plugins and it said it was not supporting 64 bit at all (the jeff rippe/rocksonic site even disappeared!), but it works in RB just fine on a 64 bit system. I almost didn't even try it; I was looking for another metering plugin but saw that I happened to have the install files on one of the old drives and decided to give it a try. Glad I did. It's not the $15 I paid to buy it, but the hassle of learning a new one that concerned me.
Win7 seems pretty good at handling these kind of things even when developers don't want to.