lossy, lossless, gainy, gainless, whatever

Okay, so here's what prompted yet another late night post.

Did some re-singing tonight. Mixed down a new lead vocal and 2 bgv tracks. They sounded PRIMO in RB. Balance and effects wise anyway. (I still can't find that "anti-nasal whiney" effect.)

Now, given RB's inability to dump to MP3 anymore, I have to use the intermediary step of dumping out to a WAV, sending it into Adobe Audition, and saving out to a 320k MP3 file that way. To test, I played the song back in this order.

RB multitracks
Merged WAV file played in RB
Merged WAV file played in Audition
Merged WAV file played in VLC player
Merged WAV file played in WMP
Merged WAV file played in Real Player
MP3 file played in Real Player
MP3 file played in WMP
MP3 file played in VLC Player
MP3 file played in Audition
MP3 file played in RB

ONLY as a RB file played in RB did the mix sound like it was when I sent it out. In every form factor after the merge to WAV, the vocals were out of balance. The 2 bgv tracks were so soft I could barely tell them were there.

Doesn't take Inspector Clouseau to figure out that the merge to WAV is where the bgv got lost in translation. So either I am doing something wrong, or RB is not sending out a representative mix when merging to a stereo WAV. Obvious resolutions are to find another way to take it from RB tracks to MP3, but until they fix that bug, I am kind of SOL here. Remember, the last couple of songs had bgv sent to me as done by a group singing them and they were already a WAV when they go there. I just loaded that WAV with the other WAV files RB created (I save every song as individual WAV files) into SONAR and mixed it there.

I mean guys, this was drastic. They were fine in RB but after the merge to a WAV those 2 tracks almost disappeared. So why THOSE 2 tracks? Why not the organ fills, or the hi hat ride?

Is RB trying to tell me to stop singing (like pretty much everybody else does)?

In the old thread there are 3 other people having this issue. I wouldn't call that global, but I will say that 4 makes it not isolated. All 4 of us get the same error message:

"Can't get stream data"

Now, computer nerd logic.

Lame encoder, not quite as lame encoder, hip encoder, Bob's encoder... whatever encoder. No shades of gray. They work or they don't. So, (nerd mode) if I CAN open Adobe Audition, or Goldwave, or Audacity, and take a file from WAV to MP3, the encoder is working. It is a piece of software with no brain and no ability to pick and choose when it will work. It doesn't know if it is being invoked by Audacity, Real Band, Goldwave or Audition. I tested in Real Band at 44,100 at every rate from 128 to 320 and got the same error at every rate.

So I sit here thinking about that computer. "What has changed between the time it last worked and the first time it DIDN'T work?" And the answer is nothing. Things have changed SINCE it stopped working, but only downloading the K-Lite 910 codec pack, and that didn't break Audacity, Audition or Goldwave. It is just RB that is broken.

As we tell help desk callers to break any tension, "Perplexing indeed."

RB 2012 with the #6 patch, as I had when this still worked. Literally nothing has changed on that computer. I use it only for RB.

Is support's mail address inside PG simply "support"? I want to touch base with them about this not being able to send out to MP3 issue. Too weird. It CAN'T be a codec because I can make MP3s with 3 other software products. 4 if I wasn't too cheap to buy Sonar's "unlock" for the feature.

Hey, I am trying to get out of debt and 10 bucks is 10 bucks....

Quote:

I still can't find that "anti-nasal whiney" effect.

I know you're (mostly) kidding, but there are a lot of interesting suggestions on Google. My initial thought was a very focused EQ cut would work, but a lot of people are against that. Particular mikes are harsher than others, so that might help. Placing the microphone higher (so the singer looks up) also comes up.

But working on proper technique is still the best solution.

Eddie,

If I understand your issue, even 2 track mixdown to .wav doesn't sound right to your ears. Like rharv is saying, writing to .wav shouldn't change MIX perception too much. There is something squirrely about how the mix is appearing at your ears as a difference between RB and the .wav print.

Some other thoughts for when this has popped up before:

1. Is it possible that one audition is MONO and the other is STEREO? A stereo mix on some tracks that don't mix well to mono could be cuplrit here.

2. Are both being played through the same hardware (had to ask)

-Scott

When in WAV format, the first playback is on the same computer that I used to work the song, which means they play back through Wharfedale near field monitors at 100w each. Step 2 is a system downstairs running through the room stereo. Step 3 is a desktop with stereo and sub woofer. Then after taking it to MP3 (in both 320kb and 128kb) it goes to computers and then a car ride (the dog loves it when I need to hear a song on car stereo!).

Everything in the source is stereo.

I have even tested this to the point where I create the WAV, close everything, restart RB, load the song back in and do it again and the second time through it is fine.

I am starting to want to blame ear fatigue due to listening to the same thing 150 times as I tweak it. I need to learn that "walk away for 15 minutes" trick.

This is the kind of thing where I annoy myself, Scott. I work with the EQ on the vocals, get it how I like it, and move on. Until Saturday when I finally saw the "save preset" option on the EQ and saved it. I did the same for the reverb, the flanger for the guitar.... now when I want to EQ vocals I don't have to start the pick and choose method from scratch every time.

Everybody join me here.....

"DUH"......

You are correct abt one thing and that's RB doesn't seem to support that sample & bit rate.

No, it DOES "support" it, because if you think about it, when you are encoding you are not using RB. You are using a 3rd party encoder. If the encoder was part of RB, you wouldn't need a codec pack.

Also, remember, it works for you, nnumerous others, and used to work for me.

Also remember, that in 3 other packages, I can convert to 44,100 at any bit rate. That's why this is so puzzling to me. Nothing changes on my computer. Ever. I don't update, upgrade, it ain't broke so I don't fix it. I will NEVER update a driver unless my current driver breaks. You shouldn't update drivers just because they are available unless you have the problem the update is supposed to fix. If I read "Addresses video problem of shadows under the figures when playing Kill Them All And Let God Sort Them Out", and I don't have that specific problem, there is no need to update the driver. I will remove and reinstall the same thing again, buut never change to something new unless it addresses an issue I am having. And there is no driver incolved with encoding a data stream into another format. Pulling hair out here!!

Remember, it USED to work. Same RB, same patch level, same OS, same hardware, same everything.

This is something deeply seeded and I will now not rest until I figure it out.

Yes.

I am a geek.

It works for me but not at that rate. I guess there's something I just don't understand here.I can use other rates in other programs.

I just checked to make sure. I have all sorts of options in Audition. I just saved to 44.1X320 MP3. So why is that not available in RB?

Quote:

So why is that not available in RB?

It's not a 'system' available codec, but one that Audition makes available.
RB uses windows system available settings.
That said, I did indeed create that bitrate in RB and told Eddie (via PM) exactly how, but he seems to still have a problem.
I assume he restarted PC and all that.
I did it on a relatively clean install (twice), no other codecs or anything, but it didn't work for him.

Download the latest K-Lite codec pack and they will be available. Whether they will work or not is anybody's guess.

I don't know much about K-Lite or your version of it, but my first suspicion would be the codec. RB relies on OS reporting codec and priority to choose from(this is only from personal observation, no real knowledge).
/I once had Lame running separately as a distinct listing in RB besides the generic MP3 listing in the dropdown, but that was XP long ago./

Now it's next to impossible to set codec priorities. I've looked around a bit on the net, and it seems to have been left by the way side. So the OS sets priorities or the installer. Order of install could be important. I wouldn't doubt if this affects how RB handles conversions compared to other software.

But sounding that much different on a wave file?? That is just plain weird.
I still suspect a routing issue with the background vocal track from your description. If every other player sounds of, check the track port maybe?

It is a weird issue.

I removed all my codecs and started clean with a codec install I had. I was able to merge to MP3 but only in MP3 format and up to 44,100 @128kb. Higher bitrates were just not available. I then loaded the LAME encoder. I was then able to see the LAME format, and the 320kb bitrate I want, but then the error came out again "can't get stream data".

Everyone who is saying they can merge to MP3, please try to do so at 44,100 @320kb. Now that I know I can do it at 128kb, that steers me toward the LAME encoder as the issue.

Note that between every step of removing, installing, testing... I rebooted every time so the RAM cleared.

I am just totally stumped.

I just DL the Lame Codec as it's necessary for Tracktion. Tracktion has a dialog to point to the codec location. Works fine in Tracktion.RB still only shows 56Kx22.5 for MP3.I don't know how to make RB update so it shows the other rates.

I get the "stream" error as well. I have installed the LAME MP3 CODEC as per the instructions provided for Win7 64-bit, but I get the error in RB.

Not a biggie for me, because I generally use a different program to create my MP3's. I always render to WAV first, then do some clean up in a different program and create the MP3 from there.

For the record, being a Tracktion fanatic - I have had a similar issue with Tracktion now and then where I had to re-install the LAME codec in order to render to .mp3 at all. Once done with that, then it would go problem free for awhile.

I like LAME as I think it sounds fine and it does offer tons of choices (for my ears, I can't hear any improvement to the sound once I render 192 kpbs. Anything higher than that is transparent to me, so I stick with the 192 rate).

As for cleanup work and audio editing, there really should be no need to 'go outside' and use a different program. If I was you guys that do this, I would be asking for those features inside of RB. It will only improve the program over time and it's one less piece of software to have to use. One thing that Tracktion does run circles around PG products is it's audio editor that's built in. You can still tell it to go outside to a different editor program, but what comes included has always been very efficient for my use for trimming, comping, etc. It doesn't have any cool auto accompaniment nor notation features - which has been my main complaint with it.

Could someone tell me how to install this LAME CODEC?

Locate the xxxxxx.inf file, right click it, and select install.

Now, if that breaks what you have that is working right now, we can start to wonder if the latest greatest RB patches made it glitchy using LAME encoding.

And for those who don't know this, LAME simply means "Lame Ain't an MP3 Encoder".

Quote:

Locate the xxxxxx.inf file, right click it, and select install.

Now, if that breaks what you have that is working right now, we can start to wonder if the latest greatest RB patches made it glitchy using LAME encoding.

And for those who don't know this, LAME simply means "Lame Ain't an MP3 Encoder".

Now that's intuitive!NOT!!!!!!!!!!

Old school Windows practice. Back when you had to install manually. Now everything has a setup executable that does that difficult task or one right click and one left for you...

It had an executable but there's no change to anything but Tracktion.

Quote:

Old school Windows practice. Back when you had to install manually. Now everything has a setup executable that does that difficult task or one right click and one left for you...

They often don't save you any clicks in the long run; you have to click it to execute it, then answer questions along the way..

This will install your software. Are you sure you want to do this? [Y] [N]

Are you SURE you ant to do this? [Y] [N]

Are you REALLY sure you want to do this? [Y] [N]

Seriously now, do you want to install this? [Y] [N]

Okay now, one last chance to turn back. Install? [Y] [N]

Don't say we didn't warn you. Click OK to proceed. [Y] [N]

Okay you are probably wondering why there was no OK box. For those of you who can't understand that OK, PROCEED, NEXT and YES mean the same thing, here. [OK - PROCEED - NEXT - YES - INSTALL ALREADY!] [CANCEL]

is there an .ini file in RB that needs to be edited to state the location of the codec?