Hi All

I have been doing quite a bit of reading about side chain comression and was wondering if anybody had any sucess using this concept in Realband?

For those who are not familiar with the concept it is that a gain reduction is automatically applied to one track based on a signal from another track. Similar to what a DJ would use to automatically reduce the gain on the music while talking into the mike.

I would love to use this in my mixing.

Hi Joanne.

Yes, it's a very useful technique. It's also called "Ducking" when it's used to reduce the volume of a track which has a voice-over - the music metaphorically ducks it's head!

Having said that, I don't think it's possible with RealBand at the moment. We'd need Re-wire, or something like that which could route signals within the program and this has been on the wish-list as long as I can remember.

Maybe someone out there knows a work-around? rharv, where are you?

ROG.

I have been aware of this for many years but really never felt the need to use it. Good solid recording techniques and mixing will, for most styles of music and cases, be more than sufficient.

DJ's and radio stations use this so that when the announcer or DJ speaks into the mic, the music, or the caller's voice (in talk radio) is lowered so that the main voice can easily be heard.

If you use this in music, you certainly want to use it carefully so as to avoid the pumping that would naturally come from it's use.

Most full featured DAW's accommodate this easily.

Hi Herb and Roger
I thought I many not have much luck with this feature being available in RealBand. Tis a pity.

Unfortunately I don’t have the budget (or perhaps the patience) to invest in a new DAW at this stage of my life.

I have read that this technique can be used to easily bring a vocal forward if it is competing with another instrument. Seems easier than manual editing or using volume envelopes. Obviously only a judicious amount of gain change would be applied to avoid pumping.

Josie, a little compression and EQ can be used to bring the vocal more out front.

Download Reaper and give it a test drive. It is free to try and has no time limit or feature/function limit during the trial. When you do decide to purchase it only costs $60!

Lots of folks here use it and can help you out. Watch an hour or so of free tutorials and I bet you'll be as comfortable with Reaper as you are with RealBand! And then when you want to use a modern technique like side chain compression you can just do it! And I'll bet you'll really enjoy the streamlined interface on Reaper too! I save so much time because it works in a modern way like most other 21st century software!

Reaper Download
http://www.reaper.fm/download.php

Free Tutorials
http://tutorialsforreaper.com/category/tutorials/
https://www.youtube.com/user/TutorialsForReaper
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=reaper%20tutorials%20free

I've not tired this (I have lots of external compressors/FX/mixers, Sonar X3 and most of the other usual SW suspects. In other words, I have multiple ways to skin that cat in real time or post production) and would have to ponder a while on the best "how to" with this Rube Goldberg approach BUT

Audacity is free

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

it has a built in "Audio Duck" app already (I've used it for "over dubbing/inserting" of narrative audio onto already recorded live operational test audio; nothing to do with music). Besides what Audacity makes available for free there numerous other free compressor plug-ins out there (with SSB/ducking, etc.).

Just bring all audio in into Audacity and select tracks to duck and the control track (I assume a vocal track but could be anything) do the "ducking and then bring whole thing back into RB if needed - may not even be necessary. Is this a "final" track mix? Technically you could "master" in Audacity - it can use all your PC's existing VST plugins?

In any case, I hope you can get some variation of RB, your other existing commercial apps, and the plethora of free apps out there to do what you want without shelling out 'mo mony.

Good Luck
Larry

Reaper ReaComp can be used in RB and should do as desired. It may take a little tinkering with to set up the control track, but should not be impossible. In Reacomp it's called the Detector Input.

It's a free download for the set of free ReaPlugins.

http://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/

Hi J*3 and Larry
Thanks for the info but I think for me right now, changing away from Realband to use this feature will be a little like throwing out the baby out with the bathwater because Realband is so integrated into my workflow.

If you are interested my workflow is as follows:

I do the basic structure of the song in BIAB. Then I open the song in Realband and record the vocals and harmonies (three of each). I then mix the vocals to just the drum, rhythm and drum tracks while also messing about with the bass, drums and rhythm instruments to see what suits the song best. Sometimes I don’t use any of the tracks originally used in BIAB but generate new tracks for all the instruments. I do the mixing in Realband, adding and deleting instruments to “sweeten” the mix. To do the rough mix I use Real band’s volume envelopes but once I am happy with the basic mix I will manually apply gain changes and fades (I find the volume envelopes sometimes do some weird things with the sound!). Once I am happy with the mix I output the song to WAV file, open Realband again and apply Ozone to the WAV file. Save the WAV file and import it into Audacity to convert to MP3.

Hi Mario. Thanks, yes I am already using EQ and compression but find I am often manually reducing the volume of some tracks as well. It would be nice for this to happen automatically.

Hi Rahv. Thanks so much! I am going to give that a try.

If you use any DAW that supports volume envelopes and sub busses, you can accomplish exactly what you need.

Every song I work on and practically every track in it.... even drums and bass, use volume envelopes even if it's just to fade that last held chord or note.

That makes it easy to pull things down and push them up in the mix as needed. I add the nodes manually and set all the levels the same way..... totally by ear. As the song is in playback, I have "Automation read" enabled and the levels change instantly and automatically.

Sometimes, I even find that in spite of my envelopes, after the mix is pretty close to being done, I have the levels on the band too high to get the vocals to their proper level in the final mix. This is where a full featured DAW that supports sub bussing comes in real handy. Most of the time, at this point, I like the mix and the levels between the instruments. So having to rework all the envelopes lower would be time consuming at best.

I simply insert a new stereo buss and call it "Band" and then I route all the instruments and /or other sub busses into that new buss. Now, it's a simple matter of turning that busses' volume down as far as needed, and then the vocal track/buss is at the right level without having to do anything else.

As I pointed out in my first post above, if you do things right, the need to sidechain the compression becomes moot in most (but not all) cases. Yes, there is a time and place where side chaining is the best answer. Certainly, learn about this technique if you wish, since the more you know about things the more adept at this whole mixing and recording hobby you will become. I know what it is.... but have never come across the need to use it. I treat all compression with care, knowing that a heavy hand on the knob of the compressor can easily ruin an otherwise good mix. New enthusiasts tend to go heavy on compression because it can make the mix loud. And yeah, it sounds good, but too much of a good thing isn't always a good thing.

BTW: Sonar's Music Creator 6 is also a good inexpensive DAW that supports everything I discussed. It's selling for around $50. I used MC4 for many years when I first was getting back into digital recording. MC is totally capable but has synth number limitations and track limits. Neither of which will affect most hobby recording enthusiasts with our smaller and even larger projects. I've never come close to topping it out. 8 synths at a time, 48 audio tracks, 256 midi tracks..... IIRC.

If you're not in a big hurry, it really pays to drop in on the cakewalk store about once a week. A few months ago, cakewalk was running MC6T on sale for $20..... It had some folks speculating about what was going on with Cake & the MC line.



EDIT: I just checked the cakewalk store and if your computer's OS is Vista or XP, you can still get Music Creator 6 (XP/Vista) for $20 ...... That is what I call a "No Brainer" price.

Hi Herb

I think this may be turning out to be a discussion on which DAW and why, which is never a bad thing so I'll just continue on that vein.

I think for me the huge plus about Realband is the ability to generate and regenerate real tracks on the fly without having to go back to BIAB to do it. Realband allows me to very easily generate new instruments and include small or large pieces at any stage of the mixing process. I don’t think you can do this with another DAW (but I could be wrong!). This is probably the biggest reason I am not thinking about changing my DAW at this early stage of my development.

I must say I was a bit disappointed with the volume envelopes in Realband as they definitely do something weird with the sounds but I have persevered and despite that problem I have found a work around that works okay for me.

This is turning into an Interesting thread though.

zactly
When you can go back and regenerate parts (or add parts) it is a HUGE plus.

With your workflow (much like mine) I think you have an anchor point.
Don't discard the other DAW suggestions, but use them when you need them.

I find quite often I am better off staying in RB until I 'need to move'.
Even then I may end up back in RB .. which is why I put a lot of effort into learning what I COULD do with it, instead of worrying about what I couldn't.

Yeah, DAW A supports this, and DAW B supports that .. but what RB supports seems to outweigh the others a lot of the time for me.
Clicking a track and regenerating = precious!

I totally agree. Quickly selecting a brand new instrument and generating to hear what it sound like in the mix = priceless

Most folks already know but for those who don't...

I use 3 programs to get to where I want to be in my music.

BB, RB & Sonar. All 3 have specific jobs. Each one has unique strengths, but they all have weaknesses as well. Just use what you need in it's strong area and move to something else to use it's strong area.

The right tool for the job at hand.

+1

I could hammer a nail with my Martin but I choose to lay it down and use a hammer instead!

All in all as Herb mentioned volume envelopes and such are more effective than side chaining for track volume control.

"Ducking" to me would affect the tonal quality of the track, more than just the volume levels.