All I want to do is import a midi song to RealBand, manipulate the tracks and then export as midi to Ableton for further processing.
The trouble I have is that there seems to be too many paths available to me.

1. I want to import a midi song and have he chords detected, tempo set and key signature discovered.

2. I don't need to generate BB tracks and I'm not sure why I would want to anyway.


3. I then want to work on the midi and then export it for use in Ableton.

I can do all these things but I'm not clear if I am doing it correctly.

If anybody could talk me through this process and perhaps why BB tracks might be selected then I would be really grateful. The manual does cover an awful lot of stuff but I'm not sure that I have a clear understanding of the process.


Thanks

John

1. Upper left corner - <OPEN>
navigate to where the midi file you want to work with is located.
Select the desired file and <enter>

2. <EDIT>/Tracks/make all BB tracks regular tracks

3. <Render>/Save all tracks to individual files (WAV MIDI)


That's one way to do it..

Hopes it helps

Charlie

Importing MIDI:
Was BiaB used to create the MIDI file or was it another source?
If BiaB was used to create the MIDI there are various reasons contradicting my answers below, as I am assuming it wasn't. If it was my answers would be different.

If you actually import a 3rd party MIDI file, 'change all BB tracks to regular tracks' in RB so you don't have to worry about generating over them and can handle them as simple MIDI.

Then Save As and select the .mid format. RB will save everything as MIDI. It may pop something up saying Audio will not get saved, but if you are in the MIDI realm that is irrelevant.

As to why you would want to generate anything:
A. you still can, just set the Track Type on a new track and generate there.
B. Why use RB if you don't need to regenerate? Do you just like the editing features in RB compared to Ableton?

I ask because Ableton is one of the few I haven't tried before.

Midi is very tricky and this is one of those counter-intuitive things. Tempo and key sig are part of the midi spec but chords are not. It's up to the original author of the midi file to correctly set up the tempo and key sig. Lots of time a downloaded midi file will display the default key of C regardless of what the song actually is because the person didn't set the key sig. Chords are separate. Biab and RB have a chord detection function but it's not perfect because there is no chord info in the file itself. Biab/RB uses AI to figure it out so the simpler the song the better but it's still not perfect.

Say you have a simple 3 chord blues in G and there's a guitar or piano playing those chords and it's playing basic major or minor triad with a 7th. Great, RB will display the correct chords. But lets say the melody happens to use the F# over the G chord. The chord is still supposed to be just a G but with an F# in there the program will display a GMaj7. You have to go in and correct that. If the song is more complex with lots of upper extension chords and harmonized bass notes it will not be very accurate at all.

Bob

Thanks all for the very helpful information. The reason I am experiment with this is mainly because I am not a good musician but I do love to be able to get a computer to do something I have created - with a little help from real musicians.

I want to create some original melodies (at least that's what I dream of - lol). I have studied the music theory but this does not get me too far when I am faced with a blank screen. In Ableton I can come up with a nice chord progression and a drum track and this does get me the ability record a melody by recording myself humming to the backing. The humming is then converted to midi in Ableton and then, with some adjustments, I get my melody (for what it's worth)

Anyway, since I have a vast range of midi songs on disk I thought I might be able to press these into service by giving me at least a chord progression and a drum track. RealBand is really good at letting me load a midi file and automatically connecting the appropriate instrument (albeit Coyote, but that's good enough for this purpose). I can also correct the instrument names in RealBand before exporting to Ableton (quite often if I load directly into Ableton I get names like 'track 1, track 2' etc which doesn't help when I want to connect an appropriate VST in Ableton.

I also like the chord detection feature and I appreciate the caveat pointed out regarding it's reliability, but anything that helps is great for me. What I do is discover the key and then transpose it to C for a major scale and A minor for a minor scale - so that I only have to deal with the white keys when working with my midi controller keyboard in Ableton.

The only problem I had with this is how the detected chords on the chordsheet align with the midi tracks on track view of RB. During playback it didn't look like the chord position on the chordsheet was playing the chord on the midi track so I had sometimes to adjust the offset but I wasn't sure if this really helped. I think this is to allow for a lead-in.

There might be many better ways of doing this but this seems to work for me.

Thanks to all

John

I have a friend who is a capable songwriter but he does not play an instrument. Over time, he has developed a relationship with an internet based demo producing company where he sends them his lyrics and hums the melody he has in mind over a phone conversation with them. They produce his song using that method. It is an efficient way for him to be a songwriter rather than just a lyricist. It costs him a couple hundred dollars per song but he has a nice catalog of quality demos that are done to his complete satisfaction.

Charlie

The fewer the tracks the more accurate the chord detection. As Bob indicated lead lines as well as any moving parts can confuse it. I would separate the tracks and find the most basic rhythm track, usually it is either a piano or guitar part. Sometimes you will need to include the bass line if it is playing the tonic of the chord. Bring those two tracks into RB/BiaB to determine the chords. YMMV

When you say "song", do you mean just the melody line? Because that's very different from a full blown MIDI arrangement (which will have all the other notes needed to develop a chord progression. BIAB and RealBand won't do much for you in terms of creating a chord progression based on just the melody line.

However, if you are just using existing chord progressions (from an existing fully arranged MIDI file, or entering chords from a songbook) and creating your own unique melody over that chord progression, then BIAB and RealBand both have a plugin to take an audio track (your hummed vocal) and convert it to MIDI. It's not perfect, and it helps if you are singing in tune (you could also run it through a pitch correction plugin first - MAutoPitch from MeldaProductions is free; GSNAP from GVST is also free).

But to be clear, if you are looking for BIAB to take a hummed in melody line and automatically find a tempo, set a key signature, a time signature, a chord progression, and a drum track, then I think you are going to have a hard time of it.

However, if you know the chord progression, then just enter it, let either RealBand or BIAB generate some accompaniment (doesn't really matter what), then hum in your melody along with it, convert it to MIDI (using either the provided tools or paid for tools such as Melodyne), then export that melody track only to a MIDI file, then bring it into Ableton for further processing. You'll have to probably enter the chord progression into Ableton manually, as chords aren't part of the MIDI standard and each program implements support for them differently (there are some workarounds, and I think Pipeline has provided some in the past).

Or am I missing the intent here?

Excellent point Mario. Thank you

Now I don't feel so bad. Thanks Charlie.

Thanks John. It is the full midi file, but as Mario pointed out, it would be better remove the melody track before the import.
You make some good suggestions at the end because that is exactly what I intended. In fact it was the difficulty of dealing with the chords in Ableton that led me along this path in the first place.

John

Hi Charlie,
What is the difference between Open and Import when it comes to loading a midi file? Are they both the same?


John

I have version 7 of RB 2017. I observe the following differences between < Open > and < Import > of midi files.

Using: File/Open or the Open Icon and File/Import

Open = RB imports the midi file; Places each instrument on a individual track; Completes Chord Detection (detects and populates the chord chart)

Import = RB imports the midi file; Places each instrument on a individual track; Does not completes Chord Detection (no detection or populating the chord chart)

All three choices of accessing midi file selection opens the same selection window.

So, you can use Open to open the file with chord detection or Import if you do not need to have the chords detected.

Charlie

Thanks Charlie, that explains my initial problem on chord detection because I was using Import.

John

Additionally (and I could be wrong...it's happened - LOL), Import would be the choice if you already have data recorded in RealBand and are adding the MIDI to the existing project.

I believe Open closes the currently loaded file (even if just a blank new project) and creates a new file.

John hit the nail on the head.

Import is to bring it into an existing project, Open creates a new project when it opens the song.
If you've done any changes prior you'll likely also be prompted to Save when you use Open vs Import.