the art tube mp mic pre..a discussion.
(it costs around 50 buks or less often.)

some background. part1.
over the years ive seen many people knock this very inexpensive
mic pre.
then a few years back to counter the naysayers
i heard a trak done by a pro AE in a big studio useing an mp.
it was great.
so i thought..who is right ?? is it junk ??
so a couple years back i got one even tho' i do my own diy mic pre's.

background. part 2.
on a recording forum awhile back i saw some folks knocking
once again the mp. so a shootout ensued.
tween the mp and other much higher priced pre's.
it became very interesting and actually made some people think
about their position on the mp.

be curious on other folks opinions of the mp.
i personally have the following thoughts.
(ive used very expensive big studio stuff in the past.)
1. i feel trak conditioning post recording is more important
often than choice of pre.
2. with the mp ive noticed its very important how one sets
its controls. and feel some people boost it too much cos they
dont have good phone monitoring set up.
so they boost the mp too much so they can hear emselves.

i was testing out a new piece of software just the other day,
n mebe my vocs suck on this, but i thought what the hey n
dragged the mp out of the closet,
and used it to do the vocs on a daft likle song idea.
instead of useing a diy mic pre of mine.
heres the very short mp3 test.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jy2yzndzfzy

now mebe the song idea suks also. n the mix cos i did it very quik
n mixed over mini earbuds.
but theres just something bout the mp texture on my vocs on this i like.
i did no conditioning. just put a bit of fx round the vocs.

cos there are still loads of people who still tell me to use
a 2k pre etc etc. trouble is ive used big studio stuff in the past
n i just dont hear a big difference.
i STILL dont think its a bad pre. but feel free to slam me
n disagree.
listen on mini earbuds if you can cos i did a quik ruff mix on minis.
what is your opinion of the mp ??
cos all the naysayers who continue to this day still make me wonder
if i'm totally wrong that for the price noone can complain.

Two things to consider:

1) A good engineer with crappy gear will most probably get better results than a crappy engineer with good gear will.

2) Only one way to find out if this pre-amp works for you: test drive it. (and have fun doing that )

I'm gonna complain-
I'm complaining that I didn't get three of them when I saw a deal for $19/each one time. They $29 now most places.

I'm also complaining that the light on the VU meter burned out on the one I got and I need to replace it.
Even though the reason it burned out is it has been 10 hours a day every day for a couple years now, being used.

Oh, and I'm not going to complain about the sound. It does fine for what it is, I just try not to push the tube aspect of it too much. Some guys claim putting a better tube in it makes it a whole different pre, but I kinda like it just the way it is. No fuss No muss.

I have the Tube MPStudio version, may be a little different, I think it has an 'OPL' which is a limiter built in, but I leave that disabled anyway.. never liked that feature.

Now I will say there is a reasonably priced preamp I like better; VTB1. It just seems to have more depth and detail.But it costs a little more, not a lot, but it is more.

1) It might just be that some people received units that were not up to snuff, used different components in places, or were broken. They would report a different situation than the people who got good working units.

2) It has already been mentioned, but it is also apropos that some may not be the fine sound engineers that they think they are.

3) Others may just be biased and trying to prove a point on an internet forum.

4) A "shootout" using a lot of different computers, soundcards, mics, rooms, noise floors, etc. isn't a fair shootout as all other aspects besides the mic pre are not equal in the first place.

5) Who cares?


--Mac

yeh ive seen many complaints by mp owners bout component failures.
nothing i can complain about.
here in canada the mp is one heck of a deal cos one gets a nice long warranty
i seem to remember. cos of some hook up tween art n yorkville for service.
i just often wonder why on many forums the mp gets no love.
i mean i just brought it outta the gear closet the other day ,
n i just dont hear a huge diff compared to when i used
uber mics into a uber big studio console.
interestingly enough people seem to rave with praise for the mpa gold
mic pre also from the same art company. but of course its
a few hundred buks.

i totally agree bout the vtb1 btw.
i heard a shoot out of it awhile back compared to some really expensive pre's
recording a great singer n it sounded great. more than held its own imho.

I have owned one for a year with no problems, and like the sound of it.

I got it to use with my Nady RSM 4 ribbon becasue of the gain needed, but it is surprisingly good for a bass DI (with some tube added) and for the MXL990 mic to tame the harsh hi end...

And rharv I seem to remember that sale, MF?

Well worth the $30 IMHO.

manning1, you already know the answer to your question.

With the relatively low noise floor of today's recording systems, unless it's a solo mic'ed track, any one of the ART preamps will do the home recordist and small studio owner proud.

I submit that on a whispery solo vocal or delicate classical guitar track, then you'll begin to notice the difference in mic preamps, but for what most of us do here, it's a great piece of kit.

scott.
actually kudos to you mate
re "whispery" .
this is one aspect where i find one has to be carefull with the mp
compared to other pre's ive used in the past.
it can still be done, but one needs to be carefull also in mic selection
possibly.
well said..thanks for reminding me.
once i get some family medical bills bills outta the way, i'll still keep the mp,
but might plop for something else.
lol..the last two years just as i save up for some new gear,
some family emergency occurs n i'm smacked down again,
such is life. good point mate.

for example i'm down on vets right now mate.
vet fees here have gone nuts n our cute doggie needed to visit the vet.
doggie takes priority.
the vet bill just sent us reeling frankly.
we were gobsmacked.
pretty soon seniors wont be able to afford pets at this rate.
no wonder vets drive flashy cars.

I have 2 of the TubeMPStudio's. I had a power supply fail on one (under warranty) so I just replaced it. I use one and the other is in a box waiting to be used. At 29.99, it seems to work just fine (I might have gotten the first one for less, but I can't recall).

I haven't really done any comparisons, but I needed something for phantom power so I got it. I now run the bass and roland spd-20 through it when I use those instruments.

Kevin

This had better be good! You caused me to order one just to see what the hype was all about!

Oh, $29.99 on Amazon. The music stores were about $20.00 higher.

Charlie..
theres a trick with the mp.
some people set the controls too high.
so test out sometime gentle boost of the mic with the mp,
then out of mp into a clean line mixer for added gain
before sending to sound device line in.
or say mp out into a mixer line in you might have hangin around.
frankly for 30 buks i dont think anyone can complain.
ps..i once used to work with some people from texas.
(i assume from the tx in your id thats where your from.)
we used to have a big laugh , me the english bloke trying to mimic the texas accent ,
and them trying the uk cockney sayings n accents.
it was an interesting cross cultural exchange.
man could those texans party. we had lotsa fun..lol.

in my humble experience the mp is best used by using the tube more than the output, depending on the source I can sometimes put the tube up to nearly maximum & the output to nearly nothing, there is largely enough signal going into the computer & gives a very round, warm sound. I am in agreement with the last post about people setting the output too high, but you can really use & abuse the tube with good effect.

"mp is best used by using the tube more than the output,"

What does this mean? I Have an input gain and an output gain. I set them both a 50% and go. I always engage the 20db booster, but I have never messed with the Phase or OPL buttons.

Kevin

Hey manning great to hear from ya. And yeah, roger that on the vet bills, sorry to drag attention away from the art but you touched a nerve when you mentioned that.

Last year my sister had a cat with an infected possum bite (out fighting at night). 2 nights o/n at the vets so she (the cat) could have some I.V. antibiotics over 24/24. Treatment and board for that brief excercise, ~$600. They were lucky they didn't have to spring for a clean up op, debridement and lavage kind of thing- the vet charges $20 a miniute for that! Who'd be a lawyer? They only make $7 a minuite here!

I used to joke that what this country needs is a health insurance scheme for pets. Then I discovered that the Fed Gov't here already offer one. I kid you not. Not sure about its full title, do you think "moggycare' or maybe "doggycare", but apparently it's real.

Ok back to mic pre's...

Hey manning, thanks for the tips (and everyone else's). Looking forward to experimenting once it arrives.

Shackman
yeh i'm really down on vets right now..lol...
couldnt have come at a worst time cos i need to visit me 91 yr old mum in uk.
and theyve also bunged up all the airport taxes.
advert 99 buks return to uk..then in the small print a ton of airport taxes..lol.
i feel everyones out to raid my puny pension such as it is.
then the blinkin iceland volcano blew up , so me mum is worried bout me travelling from canada to uk right now. so delaying uk visit a couple of months.

by the way if ya ever visit the uk..my wife n i like this hilarious hotel..
just like the cleese fawlty towers. lol.
i'll give ya the name if yer ever wantin to visit ole blighty.
its a riot to stay in. all old brit brigadier types "i say old chaps"..etc lol.

charlie.
well i hope you enjoy the mp.
just set carefully.
god bless.

Okay,
I have to ask. I'm not a vocalist, the dogs and I have an agreement, I don't sing, they don't leave me presents on my lawn. I don't have an instrument to mic.

TO ME, using a tube amp of any kind only adds harmonics and noise to a recording. Yes, some people call it 'warmth' or whatever, but the truth is it is harmonics, noise and distortion. There's nothing wrong with that, if you want it.

So, why do you want it? Why not have as clean of a signal as you can get?

Curious.

Gary

Gary.
it really depends on ones definition of warm.
ive got super clean diy mic pre's here that are as clean as a whistle
i built. useing very high end parts. 1db noise parts.
cant get any lower noise.
similarly some very high end mic pre's are ultra clean.
but the problem for some people is the sound is "clinical".

i had to laugh frankly. awhile back a whole bunch of people
on a high end recording forum who think de rigeur is one must spend
at least 1k on a mic pre were putting down the humble xenyx
mic pre's. so as a friend of mine didnt have many quids ,
i rented a xenyx just to see if the uber high end types were right.
(i'm a rebellious sort..lol.)
i put the xenyx thru its paces. recorded voc traks etc n compared
to voc traks ive done in hi end studios with megabux gear.
i came to the conclusion
the high end types had obviously never tried the xenyx.
cos i felt for such daft low money no one could complain.
getting back to your comment the thing i didnt like was it seemed
"clinical" once again.
as your aware theres a lot of BS when it comes to gear and marketing.
some people spend daft amounts of money searching for the ultimate.
i personally dont think of the mp as a super character mic pre.
to me it seems to provide just a little bit of character.

for over the top character awhile back i was trying to get for a fun
experiment an old stones vocal useing sorta a cokney style vocal.
in the original recording one can hear a bit of mic pre distortion or character
in the stones song. i couldnt get it straight ..clinical mic pre was too clean.
so i thought what the hey...bunged ..and your gonna laugh...
a guitar amp plug in on the track. fender bassman if i remember, twiddled a bit
with settings. n there it was , more a 60's old style vintage vocal with character.
much closer. weird huh ??

whats behind all this is (not me necessarily) some folks have the
"vintage sound" bug. so they spend large chaseing it.
but it can often be achieved with carefull use of a guitar amp plug in
if one chooses the right one for character.
ya know record 2 traks of vocs mebe.
put the guitar amp plug in on one..leave the other clinical n then balance to
get the amount of character versus clean one wants.

if i had the buks i would , instead of doing these kinda triks prolly
look at jlmaudio.com mic pre's.
ever looked at those gary ?? some folks love em.

Manning,
Because of my setup, and my needs, I don't need a mic or a mic pre.

I have several mic inputs on my Yamaha MG mixer, plus I have a dedicated two channel Lavry micpre in my LavryBlue, something I don't even use. It's outputs have never seen the inputs of the Lavry A/D in my set up, but then again, I don't use it. I have a Samson C05 mic because I wanted something inexpensive, yet not cheap. I could have spent a whole lot more, but there wasn't any need to.

But, I was really curious as to why people wanted that particular sound.

Gary

Gary, you are a jazz fan. You know what Billie Holiday sounds like recorded.

Some folks call that sound 'warm'. Some of the warmth is due to a lack of high frequency content - just plain signal loss through the whole signal chain and onto tape. But some of it quite possibly is some tube distortion that may have been added into the signal chain un-intentionally, or even tape saturation distortion.

The kind of harmonics added matters and can impart a pleasant sound. Yes it's distortion, no it doesn't have to be necessarily a negative thing. It's even harmonic distortion for the most part. You can think of a square wave as a sine-wave with even harmonics added. Still pretty smooth sounding, even though 'distorted'. A triangle wave, on the other hand, is odd harmonics and has a more brassy/grating sound.

Does that clear things up at all for you?

Well, Scott,
No. LOL. I understand all of what you said, and if the answer to my question is 'it just sounds better to my ears' then I can deal with that. It may also be possible that I'm no longer actually able to hear that big of a difference, or identify that difference, as I get older.

I've never said that having harmonic distortion is a bad thing, I know it imparts a certain quality to sounds that many people like.

Gary

Gary.
how interesting that you have an mg mixer and a lavry.
ive read some of lavrys papers, and i have lots of respect for him.

would you mind doing a favor sometime ??

it doesnt necessarily have to be sung.
spoken word would be fine.
if you could do a short say 30 sec spoken word
recording firstly useing the mg mic pre,
then another useing the lavry mic pre...
i would enjoy hearing the sonic difference tween the two.
for fun you could post a 30 second of each n let folks
guess. i would just enjoy hearing the differences.
all the best.

Gary -- Check into the very big differences between EVEN ORDER harmonic distortion (usually considered to be musically desirable) and ODD ORDER hd.

--Mac

Manning,
I'll try to do that for you. Won't be for a while yet, but I'll get to it.

Mac, I'm sure that even order harmonics would be much more desirable than odd order. I didn't really want to get into a discussion of distortion or anything like that, I just wondered why people preferred that 'tube' sound. If it is indeed because of the distortion, that's really all I need to know.

Gary

Gary.
cheers mate.
god bless.

Gary, there are explainable reasons why even is considered more pleasing.
If you do want to understand why, but don't want to have a discussion, do as Mac suggested and read about the difference.

Well, Bob, it wasn't even so much about even or odd harmonics as much as harmonics or no harmonics. Basically the question was why tube and not solid state?

The impression I'm getting is that people prefer the distortion. I don't really know why, I guess it is the harmonics it introduces.

Gary