I would not pick up some guy who just ran out of the bank after robbing it, and drive him off to some remote place.
Why should I help people who steal Band in a Box or any other PGmusic software?
How often do you say, 'contact customer support' and then eventually the user gets it sorted out with a little help from an aider or abetter?
I re-iterate my desire to see users registered. I've no problem then if the fields showing where they come from are allowed to be blanked out, I don't really care where you come from but knowing you are from some country with another language can help in formulating a reply.
And as to the net, facebook, twitter (I don't), messaging, skypeing, etc. there needs to be more tolerance. Sometimes that remark you took offence or offense to, was a jest, or oblique humour. Heaven knows we need more humour in our lives, but the politically correct nut jobs are after anyone who makes a remark about anyone. Heaven knows I have a trombone and know how to use it (sort of) but I make trombone jokes ALL THE TIME, the regular 4 who sit behind me in band are just bad boys, always joking and talking and making me miss what the director is telling me, and then I get in on it...so WHAT? Some trombonist is going to sue my backside. I take it all back, I'm going to have get a hidden face, a fictional town, and call myself jean-de-nowwhere! (I'm KIDDING HELLO!)
So I guess I presented 2 dilemas, would you give a helping hand to a thief, and I lament the political correctness people, for as (I believe) Rowan Atkinson said, "every joke has a victim.", and who is leading a campaign that might just outlaw all humour in the UK.
Perhaps you've not been aware, but google Band in a Box + torrent...here's an example of stolen software...
*link removed*
Hi John,
I've been using this software since it first came out on the Atari then on to the PC. Why give help to a thief?
Unregistered Users = Perspective Buyers?
Wayne,
I forgot the thieves can vote. In that the anonymous users outnumber the registered users, many of whom are not really registered users but put something like BIGfatcheeseburger as their registered name from nowhere, but actually a professor of music at x. Nice.
I am still a bit conflicted about this. There's no doubt illegal is illegal and that's it.
I do believe a lot of people will "steal" things off the web but then will buy it later. They do this as a way of demoing something. Case in point is my long time assistant in my office. George started working for me as a somewhat immature but smart 19 year old and he's now a very smart young man of 28 and is getting married soon (man, how time flies!). Like every young person I know he's a computer and internet wizard. It's like a rite of passage. Anything I want to know concerning gaming the system or figuring out my new phone he knows all about. Surprisingly he's also very straight, doesn't drink, no drugs, he's a pretty solid citizen. He uses various ways to download mostly illegal movies and music but he's told me several times he also has an extensive DVD and music collection. There's so many movies that look good but really are not he wants to download them first to see if he wants to buy the DVD. DVD's have a lot of extras besides the movie itself and he likes that.
There's also plenty of people who are just curious but not really interested enough to buy software so they download it just to see what it is and then never use it again. Those really are not potential customers so it's no loss to the company.
Does all of this add up to a net positive to the studios and other companies like PG or is it a net loss? I sure don't know and nobody else can figure that out either. It looks like PG is thinking it's a net positive, that's why they don't use any kind of authorization protocol.
Bob
It is a real issue. one thing I don't like is when people steal good software companies go out of business. I personally always buy my software mainly because I like to support the companies who are bringing me the great software........Something to be added to the mix is that there are a lot of honest people being screwed by software companies due to their anti piracy devices....I owned autotune (anteres)...I say owned past tense because I became so disgusted I deleted it and will never do business w/them again) I bought the software legally and then had to buy an ilok which worked the first time for about a month, cost me $50 to have it fixed, the second one worked for about a week. there are no people to talk to so If I want to use what I bought and now paid 80 extra to get to use (30 for original ilok 50 for replacement) I have to pay 50 dollars again. ...I must say I truly appreciate the way P.G. music runs their company..There has always been a person to talk to to resolve technical issues and they are more concerned with putting out great software than they are about thieves.....But I do agree that stealing is wrong....In a way though for a software company it is almost as if dealing with petty thieves is part of the cost of doing business ,kind of like owning a store in the middle of a bad neighborhood...either hire an in store cop and calculate his salary into the cost of doing business or put up with some thieves and calculate that in.
Hey guys I know no one voted me forum police, but links to torrents and piracy discussion ...:
Forum Rules:
[6.Pornography, warez, piracy, software hacking, or any other illegal transactions may NOT be linked in any shape or form ]
For me to be a potential customer, you need to give me at least some sort of free trial period, or as is the case with PGMusic, a 30-day money back guarantee. I'm not going to lay down big bucks for software that I may never use (although, interestingly, I have laid down big bucks for software that I ended up not using very much, or even at all). But that was my choice...
Back it the DOS days, I really liked the shareware concept. Try before you buy. And if I liked it, I bought it. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who don't [buy it].
I also suspect there are a lot of people that illegally download the software just to add to their collection, and then never use it. Yes, it's an illegal copy, but I doubt it's a lost sale.
Likewise for music, unless it's a group I already know, I also want to hear the music before I buy it. If I like it, I'll buy it (he says some 1500 vinyl albums, 800 cassettes, and 2000 CDs later).
Over the years I've lost friends and business, because I wouldn't copy or install software programs for them. They felt I was cheap and selfish. As if everything I had I got for free.
As far as PG Music Software, these are my tools. Tools cost money.
Wayne,
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It is a real issue. one thing I don't like is when people steal good software companies go out of business. I personally always buy my software mainly because I like to support the companies who are bringing me the great software........Something to be added to the mix is that there are a lot of honest people being screwed by software companies due to their anti piracy devices....I owned autotune (anteres)...I say owned past tense because I became so disgusted I deleted it and will never do business w/them again) I bought the software legally and then had to buy an ilok which worked the first time for about a month, cost me $50 to have it fixed, the second one worked for about a week. there are no people to talk to so If I want to use what I bought and now paid 80 extra to get to use (30 for original ilok 50 for replacement) I have to pay 50 dollars again. ...
You just nailed the conundrum for a software company and I don't know if there's an answer. My understanding is the only kind of copy protection that really works and stops the hackers is hardware based and virtually every one of those I read about suck. All internet based call/response type of authorization using codes get hacked by keygens.
Most software companies start out with a couple of college kids working out of a dorm. Even if they turn it into something there's no way they can hire enough people to handle customer support questions and if they try, they can't make enough money to be worth it. So, they're faced with two choices, they get stolen to death or they get expensed to death. Either way they die. The trick seems to be to survive long enough to get bought out for enough to either retire or to stake a new venture.
I think PG is surviving because they started way before the internet was a problem and they had time to build up a loyal customer base before all this crap happened. If Peter were starting now it probably wouldn't work.
Bob
I don't think that creating an "unregistered user" forum is practical, because who's going to post there? And who's going to bother to answer?
It's the same problem with the idea of creating an
.xxx domain extension - if it ever happened, the first thing that would take place would be that it would be locked down so no one could get to it.
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Why should I help people who steal Band in a Box or any other PGmusic software?
You've got no obligation to help anyone on this forum. For those that choose to do it - yourself included - thanks!
But PG doesn't currently require anyone on the forum to prove they're a registered user. So for you to personally go on the attack against someone you suspect is not a registered user seems to me to cross a line.
The danger isn't so much to the person who's posted the question as it is to other people who run across what's seen as a hostile thread. It takes very little to destroy good will between a company and its customers.
As was pointed out on another thread, the "PG Music" logo confuses people - myself included - into thinking that they are getting an "official" response from the company itself.
I believe that the vast majority of warez users were never potential users of the software in the first place. Creating draconian policies against these sorts of folks often backfires against your own customers.
Similarly, I think trying to root these folk out of the forum creates an air of hostility that also is harmful in the long run.
I did the poll. The last question is too limited, IMHO. I think some people, who are potential customers, may have valid questions before they purchase. If there is a software program that has some features that BIAB does not have, they certainly would want to ask if BIAB has those features before purchasing. They may not be musicians or have much musical knowledge which would certainly have some bearing on how effectively they could learn and use BIAB. Questions about the learning curve are relevant, IMHO.
Like John, I think the 30 day trial is really fair and helpful. If you get a trial version with limited features, you may find that you cannot make a meaningful evaluation. Putting on a time limit is better, IMO. I might be wasteful, but if I think the program is worthwhile, I just buy the paid version without spending much time on the trial. I have tried some that I just uninstalled within a very short time of trying them out. FWIW. I don't think that I could really decide on BIAB via a trial version. In my case even 30 days would not make me knowledgeable.
stan
The same difficulty faces us original music creators...a lot of people show us the enjoy our work by stealing it...I think it all boils down to honesty. P.g. music has enough honest pg music fans to keep it running. I personally believe that is because over the years p.g. music has always cared about its customers. I can remember calling the support hot line back in the late 90s when they had someone there answering the phone to help me. someone in Canada not outsourced help. I can still get that help today. they read what it is that we write on the wish list forums and they are in it to win our business. I believe that that is the great business model. there are other great softwares on the market but none that I feel treats me with as much respect...it is a loyalty thing:)
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So, they're faced with two choices, they get stolen to death or they get expensed to death.
That's not entirely true. For example, Reaper allows the user to continue to use the product past the 30 day trial period with no degradation in features other than a nag screen. There's really no incentive to go to a warez site to download it.
So why do people buy software in the first place, instead of using a free version? I think it's important not to discount the social aspect. One thing that often distinguishes great software is a supportive community. With computer software, that often takes the form of on-line forums. I believe that forums are instrumental to selling software. People want to belong, and buying software buys them into that community.
BiaB has an outstanding community on the forums, and that's part of what makes buying the software a compelling purchase. (In addition to being a great program with a liberal pricing model and responsive customer support). 
On balance Dave, I think you're right. As to the PG logo in some folks avatars I also agree it's confusing. The only one I'm aware of that does have some kind of official affiliation with the company is Mac. Maybe the others do too, I don't know.
Bob
It's not the logo avatar that separates PGMusic staff.
Under their user name is "Team PG " where regular users say 'Veteran', 'Journeyman', etc.
They also tend to have a different color font for their username when they post.
The question that struck me most is, "Do you favour the phrase "Registered User" being added to the forum?"
Should "Registered User" be added to my name?
RedGuitars, "Registered User"
Wayne,
I meant to differentiate between registering for the forum under ...goofball.... with no other info, and being a registered owner of the software...
My Bad.
Downloading, uploading and/or using software without having the proper licenses is illegal and wrong! A lot of (most all) young people however think it's completely OK for them to do so " 'cause everybody's doing it". I have even seen DJ's doing (paid) shows using cracked software and all illegal mp3's. Funny thing is that when I asked if I could use their name and logo to do drive-in shows they said "Of-course not! That's OUR name and logo. We invented the name and created the logo." When I pointed out they stole software and music they said that that was OK; everybody can download those on the internet.
It would be nice to have a (limited) usable demo of BiaB, RB and PTPA. This way people can testdrive the software without having to buy the software first. We as regular PG-customers know that the service is outstanding and that PG will keep their word on the 30-day money back guarantee. But new prospects don't have that confidence yet and many of them may be scared out of buying the software.
There really is no excuse for software piracy. There are a lot of different products on the market in all price-ranges and some of them are even free. If you want to add reverb, delay, compression and eq on a vocal track you don't have to download a cracked version of Waves Mercury bundle; there are plenty of alternatives you can use. Be it already embedded in your DAW, a cheaper set of VST's or even free legal VST's.
(having said that; I did try a cracked version of Cubase for 4 weeks because there was no other way to try the software. ANd Cubase is way too expensive to buy, try and trash! I had PTPA 12 already as my DAW but I wanted to use the controller functionality of my Yamaha 01X. After 4 weeks I removed the cracked software and bought a Cubase 5 license. Nowadays they have a demo-version, so I now would never have used the cracked version. I did a very detailed spyware, malware and virusc-heck after removing the crack, I tell ya!)
I agree with almost everything that has been said here so far. I first learned about BIAB when somebody gave me an illegal copy... and I'm glad he did, because I liked it and bought it. I am very busy, and the usual 30 day demo period is not enough time for me to experiment. Usually once I install the demo, I get one brief period of exploration, then I don't make it back before the demo expires. And I have noticed that PG stands alone in their decision NOT to protect the software... they COULD, yet they don't. Personally, I think this accounts for a great deal of the good will enjoyed by the company.
Somebody mentioned the social aspect and the online support. If the forum had levels of authorization, allowing unregistered (supposedly non-owners and seekers) to get enough access to ask questions that would help them decide whether or not to buy, while simultaneously allowing registered users more access, I think that would add value to the owners without making life difficult for everyone by having to deal with protection schemes.
I agree that many who pirate software are not potential customers. Iknow a lot of teens who pirate software routinely... but they have no budget for it. However, they are building proficiency with THAT software, not other software, and when they reach a point in life where they will buy, it will probably be the software they already know. The shareware principle is alive and well.
More in another post
In spite of all that has been said so far, I do think there is a generational difference in attitudes toward software. The older generation is much more inclined to buy what they like, whether they first learn about it illegally or through normal advertizing.
I know I'm about to make a huge generalization here, but I believe that on average the generalization stands true under scrutiny, even though it does not apply to all.
I have noticed a trend among my kids' friends (who grew up with online privileges and learned much by simply taking and using whatever they could find on the web) that they have more of a disdain for copyright laws than their adult counterparts. The adults tend to see it as a "letter of the law vs. spirit of the law" issue, but the kids see it as anarchy, there should be no law at all.
Until recently, the MIDI aspect of BIAB appealed to the generation who grew up with MIDI. My kids never liked MIDI. They gravitated toward all the music apps that deal with audio. Now that BIAB is more powerful as an audio app than most of the alternatives, I suspect that the young crowd will be more interested. But the question is, will they buy it? or steal it?
Even among young men of such age where they DO have a budget for software, I've encountered many who simply do not believe they should have to pay for software. There is a growing trend of thought that intellectual property is a proletariat manifestation that needs to be knocked down for the good of the people, and that really causes me some concern for the future.
I have had 'users' send me a private message and seek help after trying to send them to live help.
I remember the one, who obviously balked at the update, and found the previous version of the software on-line, for free. He told me that the users on the board were almost totally against spending anything on the update (July version) because it was a waste of time, so he was going to just keep using his current version.
We also get a LOT of people who post less than 10 times, who ask a question, don't wait for the answer, or who don't say they even read the answer. Sometimes you go to great lengths to answer some question and then they never seem to come back.
I'm just more suspicious, because someone who is smart went to the trouble to search the net, find my email address and send me a rant that he was using the latest version for free and that we were all morons sitting around waiting for our hard drives in the mail. He then told me how to get 2010.5 for free, and that the forum would give you all the advise you needed. No need for support.
Perhaps I'm more sensitive since the cancer and brush with 'mortality', or the disabling side effects, drugs, and on-going monthly screening while holding my breath. I certainly have far less patience than before, if I had any then. People who are having a melt down over minutiae seem somehow frivolous, though I admit when I worked feeling the same about my family when I'd dealt with deaths at work.
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So, they're faced with two choices, they get stolen to death or they get expensed to death.
BiaB has an outstanding community on the forums, and that's part of what makes buying the software a compelling purchase. (In addition to being a great program with a liberal pricing model and responsive customer support).
I think these two factors rank at or near the top here. The pricing model is flexible, the program is reasonably priced, and combined with the 30-day guarantee makes it easy to make the purchasing decision. Combine this with customer support that feels like you're dealing with real human beings rather than a machine with programmed response; most people are more than willing to pay for this kind of value.
Terry
I’m happy to say that I got in on BIAB all the way back to the days when you could get the whole program on a couple of floppies. I downloaded the demo, loved it and bought it.
I’ve bought the upgrades every time up until 2009. I haven’t been able to afford the upgrades since then, even though some of the changes made were changes I asked for, (in particular the ability to use bluegrass styles the way they’re written, instead of the way they were programmed previously, aka 8th’s vs 16th’s).
If we want companies like PG to be around in the future, then we have to support them by BUYING their product, not stealing it. I admire PG for not taking draconian measures to prevent software theft, because someone will always find a way around the “anti-theft” measures. And that would only create hassles for legitimate users. (Anyone used LOGIC with the “dongle”? If you haven’t, trust me, you don’t want to!)
So even though I could conveniently click on the link that was provided in the first post by John and jump up 3 upgrades, I won’t.
I’ll wait until I can afford to buy it. If that day doesn’t come, I’ll continue to use BIAB 2009 and still have one of the best programs available for musicians.
I’ll also know that I supported a relatively small company that has a passion for music.
And I can hope they’ll be around for many more years to come because others have supported it too.
P.S. John, ...... Just because we know they're thieves around doesn't mean we need to put a note on the front door telling them the key to the door is under the flower pot on the front porch, .................. aka the link you provided. The least we can do is make them look for it!
Quotes my kids about a year ago...when exhorted to use Open Office..."geez Dad every moron knows you can get Word just by using any of the torrents." I found all the top searches of wanting to buy the software were pirated. In fact the only link that showed up near the top was paid for by pgmusic.
I also was told some other stuff with my now 21 year old son hovering over my shoulder....see Dad..this one can't be the software, it's there for idiots, the size is wrong, it's a virus for sure. And if it says "Nekkid pics of teen star ...and the size isn't right for 2 pics at least then that's some virus too.
That being said, two friends have computers with illegal versions of xp, they bought the boxes off some friend's kid who makes them, one was running an Elvis tribute show and his soundcard quit working. I looked at what was there and the computer on bootup told him he probably was running an illegal version..then it disabled his Gina card drivers that always worked. NOTHING would let him download and install new drivers. He even found the old ones and they wouldn't work. He went out and bought xp, reformatted his drive (I wish he didn't phone me every ten minutes...while doing that) and then voila, the card worked. Go figure.
I guess with 500 CD's kicking around and all legit software I'm a sort of puritan, heck even the biab songs I have found on-line I don't use the melodies anyway, just backing.
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...It's the same problem with the idea of creating an .xxx domain extension - if it ever happened, the first thing that would take place would be that it would be locked down so no one could get to it...
Huh? I would disagree with this; it would make it easier to lock down such access for minors and for those who would rather not see such material. Moot point, I suppose.
I would cast a vote for a vBulletin-based forum; the "thanks" tools, contact tools, etc. are far superior to many other forum engines. Most Internet users are also well aware of this forum engine, being members of at least one vBulletin-based forum site. This way, they would accept the requirement to register as just another forum engine requirement.
I agree with the above reference that registering be required for site visitors, as many software producers require. I was pretty surprised at the number of unregistered are here compared to registered.
Hi John,
I would not help a software pirate. But how do you know when they come and ask a question?
How can you make sure someone is a registered user when they ask for help?
If they can lie about their non-purchase of a product, they can certainly lie about the fact that they are registered so I voted "no" on both of those questions. This would have to involve PG Music and they would have to spend the time and effort to make sure everyone who said they are a registered user actually was a registered user. A simple e-mail check wouldn't do since many people have multiple e-mail accounts.
I've heard the argument and I suppose some software pirates will eventually buy the product, and I'm sure others do not. I can't rationalize the fact that some do eventually buy it to approve the practice. PG Music offers a perfectly good demo of the product for those who are curious, and when they ask me about it, I always refer them to PG Music and recommend that they download the demo.
On the other hand, I get some very curious people who really want to know about BiaB before they buy. I guess they choose to ask me questions because I am not PG Music or perhaps because they think I wrote BiaB (I wish I did). I always help them as much as I can and then direct them to PG Music and suggest they download the demo.
I'm often amazed at people who don't think twice about stealing someone else's software, and yet go ballistic if someone stole a song they wrote or anything else. What happened to "do unto others"?
Unfortunately there is no way to copy protect software without punishing the legitimate users. A company has to make that decision and more often than not, they go without copy protection.
An example of punishment. I bought a multi-fx pedal for my guitar a year or so ago. It came with a free copy of Cubase LE. The Cubase LE came with a "software dongle" which seriously affected my computer in a negative way even when I wasn't trying to run Cubase. It locked things up, made all my MIDI programs non-functional, and wouldn't even load Cubase LE correctly. Fortunately I made a "Ghost" disk image of my hard drive before I installed it, and was able to revert back to the pre-installation condition.
I really was curious about Cubase since my preferred sequencer was purchased by another company who introduced bugs in it back in 04 and they still haven't gotten all of them out. Thanks to the lame Cubase LE copy protection scheme, I won't even consider buying Cubase. That's the peril of using copy protection. True you won't have as many pirates, but on the other hand, there are potential legitimate users that will not buy your product. Which is worse?
So what's the answer? I wish I knew. If I did, I'd patent it and make some serious money.
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PG Music offers a perfectly good demo of the product for those who are curious, and when they ask me about it, I always refer them to PG Music and recommend that they download the demo.
Hi Bob. There is not a demo any longer, and hasn't been for a few versions. Here is the Sales FAQ on the subject:
3. Do you have a Band-in-a-Box demo?
We don't have a demo program available for download currently since the program is quite large with all the RealTracks and RealDrums, however we do have a 30 day money-back guarantee. You can watch our video demonstrations at our Band-in-a-Box Demo page. You can also listen to hundreds of audio demos of Band-in-a-Box at our RealTracks pages, and Band-in-a-Box Add-ons pages.
Citaat:
Hi Bob. There is not a demo any longer, and hasn't been for a few versions. Here is the Sales FAQ on the subject:
3. Do you have a Band-in-a-Box demo?
We don't have a demo program available for download currently since the program is quite large with all the RealTracks and RealDrums, however we do have a 30 day money-back guarantee. You can watch our video demonstrations at our Band-in-a-Box Demo page. You can also listen to hundreds of audio demos of Band-in-a-Box at our RealTracks pages, and Band-in-a-Box Add-ons pages.
I think a MIDI-only demo of BiaB will be more than adequate to decide wether the software will work for you or not. You get the feeling and workflow of the program and you will experience the ease of use to come from "nothing" to "something". Include a couple of different MIDI styles, let them have save functionality so people can work out songs in their DAW. Limit the demo to 30 days.
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Huh? I would disagree with this; it would make it easier to lock down such access for minors and for those who would rather not see such material.
That's exactly why it isn't happening - those making money don't want to be restricted to an easily locked down domain, and aren't going to do it voluntarily. Thus the parallel with asking users to use an "unregistered" forum - what registered user wants to give support to someone who's announcing themselves as a warez user?
Interesting and multi-faceted discussion. Personally I would not help anyone hack software or movies or recordings, and it lowers my opinion of a person when I see that they use hacked materials. I bought my first copy of BIAB years ago and have bought all updates since. It was a very inexpensive program originally, but has gotten more spendy (as they say here in Oregon) as it has gotten better over time. As a Macintosh user I thought for a while that usable development for me had come to an end, but the current form is great and very usable. My main software, Digital Performer, uses an i-lok key for registration and security and I have only experienced minor problems with that. Almost all these companies (BIAB, MOTO, CUBASE, ETC. and even ADOBE-photoshop, have gone to yearly and semi-yearly updates to generate a steady income stream that enables continuation and development of their programs.
I have a different opinion concerning song copyrights, the original laws were intended to protect usage for 20-30 years but vested interests (relatives and publishers) have continually lobbied congress to extend these copyrights for what seems like perpetuity. Of course, countries like China and others have no such laws and no uniform court and legal system of enforcement. So as the economy goes global such things are even more clouded.
Regarding online aliases. I think people should be required to register under their own names, and avatars etc. should only be for fantasy and dating sites where it makes sense. They have done this at the JUST PLAIN FOLKS website just by request of the founder and the spam has decreased and the courtesy level has increased.
As to political correctness, humor is one thing and mean-spiritedness is another. Usually but not always it's possible to tell the difference. Also as our world and awareness changes we have to change to. Often humor is used to mask or fears and dislike of a group. There was a rash of French jokes when they didn't want to join in the Iraq War. I hear a lot of Muslim jokes and towel-head jokes and comments which I don't think are funny. But you also hear Irish telling Irish jokes etc. So it's the context and the perceived intent (humor or denigration) that makes a difference. Some people are just not aware that making jokes about mental and physical handicaps is a thing of the past. If you go to a Comedy Club you check your political correctness at the door (for the most part) but if you want to post up Uncle Bobs joke that got a laugh at the bar you may get an earful of PC in return.
Well I might have a different view about this subject, so here it is.
As a teacher for jazz guitar I get confrontated with students owning illegal copies of BIAB on a regular basis. The point is: they usually have very old copies, like BIAB 10 or 12, usually PRE-Realtracks.
When I turn on my computer and we practice along with the newest version of BIAB they go "WOW" all the time. "That sounds completely different than what I have, how do you do that"? Then I tell them that these are Realtracks, played by Real pro musicians and I tell them the PGmusic website adress, where they usually buy the stuff then.
I think PGmusic has a great tactic with copy-protection etc. EVER SINCE THE REALTRACKS GOT THAT HUGE, PEOPLE CAN´T DOWNLOAD FROM TORRENTS OR FILESHARING SYSTEMS ANYMORE. That`s why they only have real old versions or new versions without Realtracks. Nobody downloads 80GB from a torrent not knowing if they get the parts all together, if it is offered at all. In this matter I think the stolen Software is like a Demo which helps pirates getting in touch with a programm they usually start buying months or years later.
I think that`s why PGmusic doesn`t have a copyprotection. They just don`t need it, they convince us with quality. If you want the Realtracks you need to buy it anyway. So I congrat PGmusic for their decicion (I know its a money issue also to put a copyprotection on;-) not to bother us with USB dongles, register licencing like Adobe, which never works and you have to have a stolen serial to make the legal bought copy work again, or other unnessecary stuff like that.
I tell my students to buy it and they do, cause they hear how good it is. I also have a link with a recommondation from my website. Man, i should get paid for the advertising, LOL.
Sandra
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I think PGmusic has a great tactic with copy-protection etc. EVER SINCE THE REALTRACKS GOT THAT HUGE, PEOPLE CAN´T DOWNLOAD FROM TORRENTS OR FILESHARING SYSTEMS ANYMORE. That`s why they only have real old versions or new versions without Realtracks. Nobody downloads 80GB from a torrent not knowing if they get the parts all together, if it is offered at all. In this matter I think the stolen Software is like a Demo which helps pirates getting in touch with a programm they usually start buying months or years later.
I think that`s why PGmusic doesn`t have a copyprotection. They just don`t need it, they convince us with quality. If you want the Realtracks you need to buy it anyway. So I congrat PGmusic for their decicion (I know its a money issue also to put a copyprotection on;-) not to bother us with USB dongles, register licencing like Adobe, which never works and you have to have a stolen serial to make the legal bought copy work again, or other unnessecary stuff like that.
Sandra
excellent point, Sandra. ALthough I'm sure some die-hard pirates WOULD take time to download the whole thing. But the size probably does slow down the efforts of most casual pirates. I have friends from Peru who tell me that there you can buy warez at the mall! The kiosk has a computer set up and they copy from their stash to CD as the customer waits... but even in that case, they wouldn't make much money filling up a huge number of CDs or providing a USB drive at pirate prices...
Good point, however you know that down the line some hacker will break up those 80 gigs into manageable pieces that can be downloaded. They’ll probably separate the program from the RT’s and divide them into smaller DLs. I just wish these hackers would put their expertise to better use!
I have never known anyone who pirates software actually go out and buy it. After all they got it free. Pirates could care less about integrity and/or whether or not a company goes out of business. Look what they have done to the CD industry!
For the record I do not have any pirated software on any our computers. Nor do I have any illegally Dled music. I’m a firm believer against that. If I suspect that anyone asking a question is a pirate I will not respond.
Have a Happy New Year
I'm thinking there is more of a likelyhood that a pirate would burn copies for his friends, more often than buy the program. I'm sure there are exceptions.
The steady stream of improvements keeps PGMusic ahead of the game.
The steady stream of new technology makes old versions obsolete pretty quickly too.
I can't honestly say I don't have any cracked software, but the single one I have was sent to me by the company I originally bought it from (when their agreement with iLock terminated.. and they couldn't get me a response for it when I re-installed Windows)
So I don't feel like I pirated anything; I actually paid for it first!
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I can't honestly say I don't have any cracked software, but the single one I have was sent to me by the company I originally bought it from (when their agreement with iLock terminated.. and they couldn't get me a response for it when I re-installed Windows)
So I don't feel like I pirated anything; I actually paid for it first!
This is sort of what I meant when I mentioned LETTER OF THE LAW vs SPIRIT OF THE LAW
The spirit of most laws is to protect the rights of somebody. For example, a stop sign exists so people won't threaten the safety of somebody by driving through a busy intersection. But the logic gets muddy at 3 am when there's nobody on the road and you pull up to a stop sign on an icy hill. Do you stop because the letter of the law says stop? Or do you honor the spirit of the law, knowing that driving through a deserted intersection at 3 am puts nobody in danger? (I like to think that the anal retentive types will stop anyway, but the rational thinkers will proceed cautiously. But for the record, even at 3 am the police will give you a ticket if you fail to stop. Don't ask how I know this)
Likewise for downloaded music. In the past you bought lots of albums. The copyright law allowed you to make a backup of the music you bought... but there was no convenient media with which to make your backup. So, if you're like most people, you bough the same music multiple times on different media.
If you later downloaded somebody else's MP3 backup of a song you already bought 4 times on vinyl, 8 track , cassette and CD, are you a pirate? By the letter of the law, yes... but by the spirit of the law you are accessing a backup of the song that you already bought, and you are entitled to have a backup by law. The law doesn't say you had to be the person who burned the backup.
spirit of the law--- continued
This is basically the same discussion as whether it is better to get married or shack up. The answer you get will depend on how the person views the laws, and how they balance the topics of accountability to others vs. personal liberty
There is no law against knowing what you want and buying it up front
But it raises eyebrows if you experiment, then commit to it later (either because you like it or because you feel guilty)
case most likely to make you guilty by law or by public opinion is to use the merchandise indefinitely without paying for it
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EVER SINCE THE REALTRACKS GOT THAT HUGE, PEOPLE CAN´T DOWNLOAD FROM TORRENTS OR FILESHARING SYSTEMS ANYMORE. That`s why they only have real old versions or new versions without Realtracks.
Sorry Rachael, not true or maybe partially true. I went to just one of many BitTorrent sites my assistant showed me and entered "band in a box" and up popped 2010.5 in about 5 seconds, there were a bunch of old versions too and further down the list was a 12G file of Real Drums. 12-15G is the size of one season of a TV series in HD like the Sopranos or Lost. He's told me he can set that up before he goes to bed and it's done in the morning. I didn't see any RT's but I'm pretty sure if I were to really try, maybe get him involved we would find them. One thing occurred to me though. These sites are primarily used by young people. They're not interested in jazz, country, Irish folksongs, classic rock, accordians and the like. If it's not grunge, hip hop and loops they could care less and as soon as they try Biab and realize it's for mostly serious musicians, they probably just blow it off. There's some who really use it but I'll bet it's a small percentage of the kids who download it without knowing what it is.
Bob
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How often do you say, 'contact customer support' and then eventually the user gets it sorted out with a little help from an aider or abetter?
John,
Just for the record I am 1,000 percent against stealing anything ... software or otherwise.
And I have paid for every single PGM product I use (many times over).
But I will also add that, in my experience, members of this forum know the BiaB software much, much better than anyone I have ever spoken to at "customer support."
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But I will also add that, in my experience, members of this forum know the BiaB software much, much better than anyone I have ever spoken to at "customer support."
I doubt that the forum folks know more than the support folks... but the forum folks are working in their free time, and therefore we have a much more leisurely opportunity to consider a question, play with it a while to see what's up, try some things, then shoot back an informed response. And we can choose to answer only the questions we already know the answer to, or not reply at all.
Whereas the paid support person is probably dealing with multiple complicated scenarios at the same time... every single day.
I suspect support is very busy with people who don't understand their computers, operating systems, terminology, and often, music itself.
I shudder at the thought.
Ah, I plugged the black thing in somewhere's here but thars nuttin happenin.
"What does it say on your screen?"
Ah, Toe she ba.
"Where does it say that?"
Right where I'm a readin' it.
OK, does a menu come up?
Whats a menu?
Does it want to load the DVD?
DVD? I'm not watching a movie..man..it's the box band. My son got it and this puter for me at Christmas!
What operating system?
Silence..
Is it xp? Vista? Windows 7?
How would I know?
It's one of those lap tops, but it's on my desk, should I plug it in now?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I have 'stumbleupon'. I use it for an hour or so every day. Music sites, philosophy, Linux, software development.
Yesterday it served up another file share thing. Showed band in a box 2010.5, all of it. Just download it. Then hang out here for free support.
It's time for a serial number. Not to enter, but when pgmusic finds someone who bought and is giving away say 2010.5 for Mac, which I saw on there a bunch of times, they can check who's it was and send a lawyer after them. Or go after the service that is doing the distribution. In my experience those companies pull the links when confronted.