I ended up getting TC-Helicon Voice Tone Harmony G-XT. The quality of the vocal effects & harmonies is incredible. Nothing like the old Digitech I had. No robotic or grainy sounds.Even acapella it's great.I'm totally blown away!!!! Driving the guitar input using a separate track of acoustic guitar from the built in sound card works perfectly. I decided on this unit over the M because:
1. I have the flexibility of having the harmonies where & when I want 'cause I have to push the button.
2. I can turn down the outs from the Audigy card and blend the guitar input track with vocals including the effects and play an "acoustic" solo with just Bass, acoustic & vocals. This will add jobs for me.
3. A USB connection with and editor/librarian for creating/saving effects presets and for firmware updates.
This unit can be had at Same Day Music for $229 & free shipping.
Congrats!
I haven't found anything yet that comes close to TC Helicons harmonies. The EQ and voice sweetening isn't bad either. I am sure you will have many good times with your pedal. The only problem is that it is kind of addictive and when you work on older songs you start thinking about I wonder what would happen if ...........
Terry
Sounds sweet John, go forth and harmonize!!
Imagine running a sweet realtracks guitar track into that dog and singing along with it.
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Sounds sweet John, go forth and harmonize!!
Imagine running a sweet realtracks guitar track into that dog and singing along with it.
Yes the nice thing about it is I can do that and have all of the effects and mixing take place and then into the vocal channel of my mixer.Play bass & sing. Some of the places around here only want an acoustic sound for there entertainment. Pa is OK of course.I can even just put the acoustic track on a CD & run it through. Gives me a nice compact acoustic set-up.
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I ended up getting TC-Helicon Voice Tone Harmony G-XT. The quality of the vocal effects & harmonies is incredible. ..... No robotic or grainy sounds.Even acapella it's great.I'm totally blown away!!!! Driving the guitar input using a separate track of acoustic guitar from the built in sound card works perfectly. I decided on this unit over the M because:
1. I have the flexibility of having the harmonies where & when I want 'cause I have to push the button.
2. I can turn down the outs from the Audigy card and blend the guitar input track with vocals including the effects and play an "acoustic" solo with just Bass, acoustic & vocals. This will add jobs for me.
3. A USB connection with and editor/librarian for creating/saving effects presets and for firmware updates.
This unit can be had at Same Day Music for $229 & free shipping.
Oh boy! now you got me thinkin...
Today is the big town garage sale so time to haul all my old music junk from years gone by which is gathering dust in my closet out to the driveway and see if I can come up with some quick cash. 
anyone want a 4 track Tascam tape recorder from 1986? While priceless in memories of my first recordings, I'm looking for $5 with the BIAB Forum discount, but will take offers. 
I'm gonna take it for a test drive tonight at the gig.
It was great. Didn't take much setup to get it right.The sound over a PA is fantastic as are the effects. Did take a little getting used to 3 voices at times.
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It was great. Didn't take much setup to get it right.The sound over a PA is fantastic as are the effects. Did take a little getting used to 3 voices at times.
good to hear.
I have been listening to lots of on-line demos and it does sound very interesting to me. Unfortunately, I made only ~$75 in the big garage sale 
. I figure I paid at least $1200 - $1500 for the gear i sold -alhough I have to admit it was of no real value to me for all the years I had been storing it. A single guy bought it all and he was very pleased.
But $75 is a little short of a new vocal processor 
John congrats. `
I bought the GXT harmonizer last week (price in DK equals $360 though!
) it's really incredible - the harmonizer, not the DK price...
John I have a little problem when I record, or play back over the PA system for that matter, that is the guitar sound bleed through into the mic. This cause the guitar sound to be harmonized as well, sounds a bit like distortion.
Reason may be I use a condenser mic, as the condensers are more sensitive. Could you offer any advice, would a dynamic mic. be the answer.
Thanks
Jan
@John: Congratulations! Good to read the gig went well. You obviously made a good decision buying the GXT
@Jan: The GXT has a gate built in, but unfortunately this can only be set to on or off (default setting = on). You'll have to do something with your mic. What kind of pattern does your mic have? Try using a cardioid type microphone. tilt it up just a bit so that it faces your mouth and is pointed away a bit from your guitar. Condenser mics are great, but TC advices to use dynamic mics with their harmonizers. Try the good old SM58, that one should do well.
For more information regarding your TC-effects, you can also visit
the VoiceCouncil Forum
Thanks Mike.
Actually, I have considered the SM 58 for home studio use, replacing my condenser. I think it's called GAS, right
Jan
Jan,
For (home)studio use you could try recording the vocals dry with your condenser mic. After recording you can send the vocal track to your GXT. Be careful not to drive the GXT too hot, since it is a microphone-level input and you feed it at line-level. Record the 100% wet signal from the GXT to another track. This way you have much more control over your effects/harmonies and you don't have to deal with bleed-issues.
Mike.
Thanks for feed back.
That would be the optimal way, however I tried that, but with a bad result. Problem is - as you mentioned - that the input signal tend to be too hot through the mic port, and in addition you need to feed in a guitar input at the same time. I believe it can be done, I just haven't been able to obtain an acceptable result so far.
I recall you have VoiceLive2 (?), is that the way you do it?
Jan
That is the exact reason i prefer the midi drive harm units. they do not have to rely on the guitar signal, and can be set to run off the midi alone and therefore not bleed over and confusion. I originally bought the GT version and sent it back cause it seemed to get confused.
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I originally bought the GT version and sent it back cause it seemed to get confused.
Wow don't tell my wife. The doc said it was chemo fog, but heck if she sends me back I'll have somewhere new to be, other than here, which can be new at times. I think she's only keeping me because I cook and clean and am deaf so she can snore.
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That is the exact reason i prefer the midi drive harm units. they do not have to rely on the guitar signal, and can be set to run off the midi alone and therefore not bleed over and confusion. ...
OK, tell me more about this. Since I always have BIAB in my gig is there a unit (or version of this G XT) which would generate my vocal harmonies off of the chords from BIAB?
Yes.
I got the Voicelive from PGmusic (who resell TcHelicon stuff). The VoiceLive2 came out about an hour later lol.
I have the Opts. Prefs. Output channel in Band in a Box set so ch 5 sends chords to the box for harmony.
I then set the soloist channel to 5.
At the point I want a harmony I press F5 and set it in the soloist channel. So even though 25 is Nylon Guitar it triggers Preset 25 on the box. Works great. I have one channel I set to have the harmonies off and the voice thickened, and you can set any of them to pitch correct or not. So you can change during the song. Or in the case of the VoiceLive you can hit the pedal and mute the harmony.
Too bad radiation treatments have wrecked my voice. The docs think it might get better. I'm messing now playing horns and stuff through it. And the wife's flute turns in to 3. Kinda cool.
Jan,
I had answered your question this AM it was as Mike said. I went to post it and PG site went down. Just got back on.
If I could have afforded it I would have gotten the Voice Live 2 for all of it's flexibility. The GXT is the same harmonizer though so went with it. It also has more features then the M. I didn't cre so much for the Voiceworks. All three in the same price range. With BIAB you will need a midi unit to get the chords. I use RealBand so sending a silent guitar track to the guitar input is a cinch.It never missed a chord. Even if there were more then 1 chord change in a measure. Using a RT acoustic guitar is ideal for this thing as it's very straight ahead and steady. Unlike if you're playing it yourself.
Thanks John.
Yes I believe I can make it work. I'm using Sonar for the final mix, just need to figure out how it works, sending the guitar track to GXT.
Jan
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Jan,
If I could have afforded it I would have gotten the Voice Live 2 for all of it's flexibility.
Ya, that is definitely out of my limited price range. 
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With BIAB you will need a midi unit to get the chords. I use RealBand so sending a silent guitar track to the guitar input is a cinch.It never missed a chord. Even if there were more then 1 chord change in a measure. Using a RT acoustic guitar is ideal for this thing as it's very straight ahead and steady.
I need to understand this part.
Are you saying with RB you can route a RT guitar part to use for setting harmonies? But this can not be done from BIAB? What do you mean when you say that BIAB would need a midi unit to get the chords. Is the porblem with the routing in BIAB, which is better done in RB?
As you know I use BIAB for live shows but this could be the decider to switch to RB for live gigs.
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Are you saying with RB you can route a RT guitar part to use for setting harmonies? But this can not be done from BIAB?
It can't be done in BIAB. It can be done in RB BUT you need to use either 2 soundcards or a multi out soundcard.You play guitar though so you don't NEED to run a guitar part from the program. Guitar plugs into the GTX and out to the amp. Mic plugs into the GTX and out to the PA.
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What do you mean when you say that BIAB would need a midi unit to get the chords. Is the porblem with the routing in BIAB, which is better done in RB?
BIAB is setup to send the chord changes via MIDI.There's a menu under prefs called chord output or something to that effect.
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As you know I use BIAB for live shows but this could be the decider to switch to RB for live gigs.
It'd take a little time but all you need to do is open your *.mgu songs in RB then save. You could probably do 200 songs in 2 hours.Add a guitar part & route to different card/output and you're done. Even if I was a guitar player I think I'd still do it this way.In this way you get steady chords to the GTX and don't have to taylor your playing. I've heard that your playing is important to getting good harmonies. I read this to mean more basic steady rhythm.
John prefers the GTX due to it sharing the newer units harmonie engine, but my view on this is that the older voiceworks sound pretty darned good, and it is more tailored for both studio and live work, maybe leaning a tad towards studio. but when i tried the foot pedal unit, i had to remember to step on the unit and turn it on and off every time i wanted it.
This caused a lot of confusion for me, there were songs that it had to go on/off several times in a simple chorus. Like for instance where you want the harmonies to sing along then stop and allow you to sing one short part for effect, then some back in. In short a lot of foot clicking all the while i am trying to play the guitar, make eye contact with the audience, and remember the lyrics. Sometimes if I did not have just the right position on my seat i had issues getting it to turn either off/ or on, and then you sing the next verse and bam the harmonies are still on. Sometimes i stepped on the wrong button and wham the wrong sound.
I use the voice works because i can program it to turn itself on and off by midi CC commands. Plus it has 4 voices that i can tailor to need, plus thickening, compression, reverb, and pitch correction.
I can control the voices far better, i can have one come on in unison for a section and have two more kick in at the chorus. The voiceworks also has harmony hold so the harmonies can hold a note and i can then sing around them. The ability to genderize them is nice. Sometimes in the studio i set it up so that it drops my lead voice and only outputs the harmonies, this makes for a great sound, especially if you record the harmonies one at a time on separate tracks and pan, and move them around.
My wife wanted to know what girls i had sing with me the other day on one recording. Kinda funny .. er well that is after i convinced her it realy was me.
Lastly what i am doing now is to add harmonies right into my songs in RB, and mix them better, and not even use the unit live. Slowly i am working over a few songs at a time so that i can leave the unit in the studio, and just have recorded harmonies. This allows me to pan them left and right and add personal amounts of effects, and as i said earlier you can genderize them and it sounds more like other people. One of the big problems with Harmony units is that after a while it starts to sound like a whole bunch of you.
Interesting thread.
I like the voiceworks for all the reasons given by Rob... I hate having to make changes with foot pedals.. I like things to be programmed in advance to whatever degree of complexity I need. The voiceworks is a truly programmable unit capable of far more functionality than the newer audio driven units... and the relative price of each testifies to that.
One of John's objections in past discussions is that he didn't want to reprogram hundreds of songs. For his needs, I think he made the perfect choice. The GTX works right out of the box on the fly and gives him hands-on control, which is what he prefers.
The sound quality of all these TCHelicon units is very good no matter which one you get. When deciding what to buy it boils down to a question of whether convenience or control is most important to you. Also, how much time you want to invest in making the songs work with the unit... the voiceworks is more time-consuming, but also more powerful.
Whether you drive a vocal processor with MIDI chords or audio chords, you'll need a way to send a unique chords-only signal. RB allows multiple MIDI ports, so it's easier to send clean MIDI chords to the VoiceWorks with that program.
If your setup provides a way to split audio signals to multiple outputs (mixer, splitter, sound card with muliple outs etc) then you should be able to send a clean chords-only real track to the GTX device.
Or, you could use it as it was designed, play directly into it and let your playing trigger the chords.
Another thing to consider before buying any vocal processor is the wide variety of harmony types that are possible. Audio activated devices generally produce chordal harmonies. But there are many other kinds of harmonies. (several varieties of scalic, note driven etc)
If you want specific notes (such as the harmony used in Scarboro Fair) a chordal harmony won't do that. It will provide a theoretically correct harmony, but it won't be the one in the original song. If you are into note-for-note reproduction of cover songs, you definitely want to look at a programmable device.
A programmable device is capable of reproducing ANY harmony that is possible (If you are willing to endure the learning curve and time to reprogram your set list of songs)
The chord-based harmonizers do one thing very well: they provide excellent sounding backing vocals that fit a given song in a generic way (much like BIAB reproduces songs very well, but without the signature licks)
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If your setup provides a way to split audio signals to multiple outputs (mixer, splitter, sound card with muliple outs etc) then you should be able to send a clean chords-only real track to the GTX device.
This is what I do cause I play bass.
For background in 2001 I bought a Digitech Vocalist II. It was almost identical in features as the 2003 Voiceworks. All the programability etc. All I ever used were a couple of the close voiced presets. I did use CC messages to activate the unit. The sound was reasonable and I liked it.This time the main focus had to be on the quality of the harmonies. After listening to demos of 3 units:
1. Voice live II
2. Harmony M
3. Harmony GXT
4. Voiceworks
Done by:
1. TC Helicon
2. members of this forum THANKS
3. other folks
4. comments at the TC forums
I decided that even though they all sounded very good the VoiceLive II & the GXT had the best sounding harmonies for my needs. I could not afford the VL II at this time.The GXT is the same vocal processor as the VoiceLive II.
One thing that may slip is that the new GXT has a USB connector and a program for saving and restoring presets & setups.It's also used for firmware updates. I've already done one of those. Slick. The presets are save as sysex files. With the unit plugged in it shows up as a MIDI driver. See where this is headed.There's discussion that appears to be from a knowledgeable source that there will be an update that will allow the GXT to be MIDI controlled. Sort of a merge of the older M & G .
The other thing
I am generally very conservative on my gear purchases - I am not one that suffers from GAS, however, following this discussion you guys have really got me going on this one. The harmonies I hear by web searching are generally really good which to my ear says the sound engine has improved from last time I looked at this stuff.
Now it is just a matter of usability - I am not looking for something which has to be overly programmed. I always try to stay away from units which have to be programmed by ..push first button twice, then hold down second button once, for 5 secs, then switch unit off and then on, then select option 1 to 10... I need presets and I need it to be simple.
Started poking around on Ebay and craigs list looking for deals. Also heading out to the local guitar \ music shops today to see whats is available - the search is on.
Thanks for the great info on what is being used and how.
Harmony GXT can be had if you call, for $239.It has 10 presets.With the included software & USB cable these can be saved and a different set made. My first test of the unit was just preset #2 which had the following settings:
1. 2 above
2. voice correction off
3. Hall Reverb
4. Tone on---kind of smooths out your voice
5. double on
I left it like this all night. Just hit the button when I wanted harmonies.With open voiced chords coming from RT the harmonies stayed real close voiced which I like.
I agree Pat. If you want to recreate the exact harmonies to a particular song you must have a unit that will play based on the midi notes you program in. Digitech calls this Vocoder Mode.Don't remember what TC calls it.
Dan,
I can't imagine that you wouldn't be very happy with any of the TC Helicon vocal processors. IMHO, they are the perfect addition to PGMusics products. Those two products plus your talent can reproduce the sound of an entire group.
BY the way, the voiceworks doesn't HAVE to be programmed... that's just one way to use it. You can use other types of harmonies that are just as hands-off as the harmonies from John's device.
You can send chords from BIAB or set the key from the faceplate then just use the foot switch to turn harmonies off and on.
You'll like it. It is by far the coolest piece of gear I've ever owned.
Hey guys thanks so much for the personnal endorsements and recommendations.
The hunt is truly on. I spent the day at a local Sam Ash and a Guitar Center. Both would have to order it for me. SA for $249 and GC for $279, although I'm sure they would price match. GC did have a demo True Voice Harmony G which is the predessor to the Harmony G XT. But I have my mind set on the G XT. I am currently chasing some eBay bids and will let you know in the days ahead how it all works out.
Perhaps you can ask John (Silvertones) for the demo-files he used to make his choise.
Here's a short demo I made with the VoiceLive2 (same harmony-engine as the GXT).
This demo is made using a Shure SM58 and an Ovation CC48, both plugged into the VoiceLive 2 and the output was recorded live as-is into Cubase. No further editing was done: the sound you hear comes straight from the VoiceLive 2.
The first bit is The Boxer by Simon and Garfunkel. I used a factory preset (3th above) and tweaked it a little bit to better suit my taste. The first part is only lead vox with reverb. The second verse ads the harmony (foot-switch).
The second bit is Teach your children by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young. I used a preset with a small tweak. You'll hear 2 3ths and 2 5ths, panned in stereo.
The guitar-sound was enhanced with the VL2 built-in guitar effects.
I bought a TC Helicon Voicworks from pgmusic. Got it next day shipping.
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I am not looking for something which has to be overly programmed. I always try to stay away from units which have to be programmed by ..push first button twice, then hold down second button once, for 5 secs, then switch unit off and then on, then select option 1 to 10... I need presets and I need it to be simple.
when I say "programmable" I don't mean layers of menus. I mean the same kind of continuous controller programming that lets you control any MIDI device as part of the sequence.
In the same way that BIAB and RB let you use upper bank patch files to add the names of your synths non GM patches to the dropdown patch selection dialog box, you can also add the CC prameters for MIDIable devices to the same file.
That way, in Piano roll mode when you click on the dropdown box to add a continuous controller, you get a custom list of controls for your MIDI device. In the case of the VOICEWORKS, the custom dialog would say things like...
harmony off/on
pitch correction off/on
harmony type
harmony key
correction type
correction key
etc
every single parameter can be changed on the fly by inserting continuous controller commands into the track. Its very easy to make harmonies switch on and off, add more vocalists, change the reverb, key etc
And the nice thing is that because it works via continuous controllers, most of us MIDI enthusiasts already know how to do that, so there isn't a huge learning curve
Anybody who is gearing up for a solo act should consider buying only MIDIable devices that can be controlled with CC. Once you get the sequence set, all volume changes, patch changes, key changes etc happen automatically, as if you had an invisible sound guy controlling the show.
All business is about offering the same product or service at a price that is lower than your competitor. The way to do that is by cutting costs. With BIAB, a vocal processor and continuous controllers you have eliminated the cost of a full band, backing vocalists and the sound guy. (CC can do lights too).
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Perhaps you can ask John (Silvertones) for the demo-files he used to make his choise.
Here's a short demo I made with the VoiceLive2 (same harmony-engine as the GXT).
Mike, your the man. Great sound here, thanks for sharing.
John, I would trade my eye tooth for the Voiceworks II, but unfortunatley no one would give me $799US for my tooth. At this stage I simply can't afford it.
If you follow the Helicon products you'll see they had a pedal for guitar called G & a pedal for keys called M. They updated the G to GXT but did not update the M. I think it's a matter of time before the M is discontinued and the G & M are combined.
Hiya bobseekone,
It will show up as a device because MIDI is used to transmit updates over USB but Harmony GXT is intended for manual footswitching only, as such there is no MIDI patch change ability. There are a few people who use MIDI foot controller boards so we'll put this in the wishlist!
Best wishes,
Joey
The sound of the GXT is the same as the Mike's VoiceLive 2
Musician's Friend is having a closeout sale on the previous version
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pro...ists?sku=180235$169
such a good price I feel like buying one as a backup!
I just got back from Ebay where a "new in box, never used, got it as a gift" TC Helicon Voiceworks sold for $209
that's a lot of bang for the buck!
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I just got back from Ebay where a "new in box, never used, got it as a gift" TC Helicon Voiceworks sold for $209
that's a lot of bang for the buck!
I have a different outlook on that. To me, whether it be a harmonizer, keyboard, new car,it is not a FEATURE unless it's something you need or want.The Voiceworks used for $209 or the one I could get new for $239 at MF was not good bang for the buck cause all I want is 2 voices & effects for my voice & the harmonies.Nothing more. The Voicelive 2 & GXT are better at this then any that I have listened to. Admittedly I've only listened to factory demos & a couple from folks here.If you need or want all the other things then the Voiceworks would indeed be a great value.I don't do any recording at all as hard as that may be to believe. I focus on live.
analogy:
When I was a kid my Mom used to buy my clothes and shoes a bit large so that I could "grow into them. "
I have found the same strategy to be useful with gear.
Just lostout on a bidding war over on Ebay:
TC HELICON VOICELIVE 2
Item condition: Used
Ended: May 20, 201108:17:04 PDT
Winning bid: US $521.99 [ 25 bids ]
Shipping: FREE USPS Priority Mail Large Flat Rate Box
I had if for $460, but in the last 5 minutes it jumped to final price. So the hunt continues. Did I mention that next tuesday was my birthday
?
Try these guys. Read the info. Start at a very low offer and work your way uo until you either get it or the price is out of your range.
VoiceLive 2 NEW
That is my view as well. what i focused on two years ago has changed. Right now i have spent the last year building up a nice set of live music. Recently I have had the bug to record a full album of original tunes.
So i try to buy gear that will allow me to accomplish what i want to do now and in the future.
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Just lostout on a bidding war over on Ebay:
TC HELICON VOICELIVE 2
Item condition: Used
Ended: May 20, 201108:17:04 PDT
Winning bid: US $521.99 [ 25 bids ]
Shipping: FREE USPS Priority Mail Large Flat Rate Box
I had if for $460, but in the last 5 minutes it jumped to final price. So the hunt continues. Did I mention that next tuesday was my birthday ?
Dan,
Good luck in your bidding! My experience with Ebay is that if you know exactly what you want and what you're willing to pay for it, you will eventually get one at that price if you relentlessly bid on every one you see.
And happy birthday a few days early!
I am spending a lot of time with my horns and my Voicelive. I'm gong to make a video and post it. I wonder if I should fire sale the thing, or keep working on it. My voice is a sad thing, the radiation killed it. I can talk for about 3/4 of an hour. After that it's just a rasp and a croak. But hey, I'm still here. I think.
Surprized to see this thread reappear!
Well I retuned the GuitarPort (never opened the box) - that was another thread. So now I have a little extra money. While I was at the music store I checked on availablity of a used TC-Helion VoiceLive II. It have always been on my wish list. Guy says they don't have, but they do have the new TCHelicon VoiceLive III. What the heck is that?? So he shows me a TCHelicon Voicelive Touch and says it is next generation, and a lot cheaper.
So I look up a comparison.
http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/ci/fattach/get/28398/Looks good, I like the Voice Looper, I like the price, seems to have the right features without going crazy. Just need to see if it can be cc controlled via BIAB.
Found a favorable answer to that question:
http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2865Here we go again.....
Dan
Well it is odd to have this thread again. Way back I tried to get TC Helicon to answer a simple question & that is what's the difference in harmony between the GXT & the M. I received a reply yesterday. They say the M is identical harmony wise. I wish I would ahave known this. The GXT is really nice and I haven't had but a little time with it however at second glance the tracking is exceptional but not perfect. The M being MIDI is perfect. For a guitarist the GXT is the only way but I had to create tracks anyway to drive the GXT. I could have just as well done MIDI tracks. One other factor was I would have needed a MIDI interface. In hind site I should have gotten the M for use with BIAB or RB.
Well, I pulled the trigger today.
Such a deal I could not resist. Amazon.com has the TCHelicon Voicelive Touch for a price so low they can not advertise it otherwise others would have to match it You have to put it in your checkout bin to see how cheap it is. (I'm not held to any such contractural agreements - $388 USD) . Got it and the Foot switch ($49 USD) being FedExed to me in the next couple days.
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In hind site I should have gotten the M for use with BIAB or RB.
John, In reality likely a very small difference, but, there is always ebay.
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In hind site I should have gotten the M for use with BIAB or RB.
John, In reality likely a very small difference, but, there is always ebay.
If I ever get out playing again I will do that.
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Well, I pulled the trigger today.
Such a deal I could not resist. Amazon.com has the TCHelicon Voicelive Touch for a price so low they can not advertise it otherwise others would have to match it You have to put it in your checkout bin to see how cheap it is. (I'm not held to any such contractural agreements - $388 USD) . Got it and the Foot switch ($49 USD) being FedExed to me in the next couple days.
I went to the TCHelicon site and watched the videos for your new gear... it looks like it will be a lot of fun! Keep us posted on how you're using it and which features you like best/use most
John: I'm sure you will enjoy the harmonizer. I have a question for you or anyone else about using one of these with BIAB and or RB. Since I play bass on a gig or @ home, this is less than ideal to guide the MUS IQ.. My unit is a Digitech Vocalist Live 4. It works good enough for me with rhythm guitar. With a bass guitar the root note will select a chord change. Western swing requires switching to 4/4 mid song sometimes. Now we have usually 1-3-5-3 or 1-1-6-3-5 etc. NOT GOOD. My O.S. is Windows 7-64. I have an HP Pavilon dv7. lap top, 6GB of ram / 750 gb hd with intel CORE I-7 processor. I use the 1/8th ear phone out to an Allen&Heath ZED 10FX mixer. Present routing is: BB to Mixer stero ST2 in,- vocal mike to mixer--aux.1(mike channel-selective with send knob)- send to line in lef/mono of the Vocalist 4. Bass guitar 1/4 out to guitar in of the Vocalist 4--then guitar thru to bass amp. Step on a pedal and the wet harmony signal only goes to ST1 channel of the mixer. I almost never plug the mike into the Vocalists 4. The mixer has musch better pre. amps. and better E.Q. A third up and a third down fits most of the songs I sing. With this set up I can offer harmony to others when desired. By zeroing my vocal channel send and opening another, the Vocalist 4 can be used by others in the band. What I would like to do is send a RB or BB clean rhythm guitar track to trigger the Vocalist 4 instead of my bass signal. Panning the BB guitar signal full left or full right has not worked very well so far. Too much bleed from drums soloists etc. Also everything else has to be pannsd to the oppisite out. That sucks big time I am thinking that an external usb unit would solve this routeing problem for me. What would I need and how much money? I am open to suggestions. e.l.c.
I've never found the real-time triggering of harmonies by a guitar to be dependable enough for a gig. Maybe with a keyboard, but the guitar produces too many asynchronous notes in a chord, each of which tries to change the harmony.
That's why I like the vocal processors that let you control the harmonies by continuous controller. It takes a while to set up, but once you have it, it always produces harmonies in the right key, and it always comes in on time. Plus you can turn harmonies on and off at will, use more complicated harmonies if needed, all without being distracted by trying to manually affect the harmony.
If your vocal processor supports MIDI control, I think that's the way to go. BIAB can embed the chords needed to control the harmony, and if you move the song to RB, it offers multiple MIDI ports so your vocalist chords don't accidentally play on your synth.
I use 3 soundcards:
1. Audigy 2 ZS Notebook for the band
2. IKM Stealth for bass
3. Internal card to send,as you want, a guitar track to the Harmonizer.
I'm finding the tracking of a guitar part to be less then stellar. In hind site I should have gotten a MIDI unit. The only people that should get one of the guitar controlled rigs are those that play acoustic guitar solo and have no other options.
Don't say it Pat
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I use 3 soundcards:
1. Audigy 2 ZS Notebook for the band
2. IKM Stealth for bass
3. Internal card to send,as you want, a guitar track to the Harmonizer.
I'm finding the tracking of a guitar part to be less then stellar. In hind site I should have gotten a MIDI unit. The only people that should get one of the guitar controlled rigs are those that play acoustic guitar solo and have no other options.
Don't say it Pat
using the internal card to send a separate signal to the vocal processor is an excellent idea, I would never have thought of that in a million years! In RB it should be possible to send different tracks to different audio outputs... instead of sending the guitar track, how about sending a sustained organ or strings track? The main consideration when triggering with audio is that all of the notes are played simultaneously. Guitars are problematic because the notes are all struck at slightly different times, which confuses the unit.
What I do to trigger chordal harmonies (basically the same thing the new audio units do) is:
1) I created a style that has only one instrument and one pattern (plays a simpl triad for every chord)
2) I named the style VOCALIST
3) when I want to add clean chords for harmonies, I load the VOCALIST style and generate a MIDI track, and it creates simple triads for each chord, without embellishments that tend to change the harmony
4) I send the midi chords to my unit, but if triggering via audio, you can route the soft synth's separate output to the vocal processor.
I bet that will work quite well... maybe even better than straight MIDI, because your unit has a newer faster engine.
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Don't say it Pat
Actually, Kudos to you John for being candid and up front with your assessment. Others do learn from our lessons and experiences.
I am 98% sure the VoiceLive Touch will have Midi, Guitar and Aux inputs to drive the harmonies. However, not entirely sure about CC control. Lots of rumblings that the manual is very poor and folks just can't figure out what this unit does or how it does it with CC control. But of course, I will have all you folks to help me figure it out. Which I am counting on.
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I am 98% sure the VoiceLive Touch will have Midi, Guitar and Aux inputs to drive the harmonies. However, not entirely sure about CC control. Lots of rumblings that the manual is very poor and folks just can't figure out what this unit does or how it does it with CC control. But of course, I will have all you folks to help me figure it out. Which I am counting on.
from the musician's friend review:
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VoiceLive Touch accepts any of three inputs to drive the harmonies: guitar, MIDI, or MP3. If you plug in a guitar, you can elect to have it come through the mix with VoiceLive Touch supplying effects, or the guitar can be muted at the output, so that its function is only to drive the harmonies. Whether you play acoustic or electric, a Thru jack lets your signal pass through unaffected on its way to the amp. Besides the XLR and 1/4" inputs for the mic and guitar, VoiceLive Touch includes an XLR out, balanced L/R outs, a MIDI input, a stereo aux in, and a headphone out jack (with dedicated volume knob). This is a thoroughly professional unit with regard to its audio connections.
link to the manual:
Quote:
http://www.tc-helicon.com/voicelive-touch-details-user-manual
page 18 of the manual says that the unit DOES accept continuous controller input
pages 27-29 show which continuous controllers change which functions of the device
pages 30-32 show the patch numbers, which you'll need to change patches via MIDI
cool beans, looks like it does everything you could possibly want to do PLUS looping!!
[quotelink to the manual:
http://www.tc-helicon.com/voicelive-touch-details-user-manual/<br />
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
page 18 of the manual says that the unit DOES accept continuous controller input
pages 27-29 show which continuous controllers change which functions of the device
pages 30-32 show the patch numbers, which you'll need to change patches via MIDI
cool beans, looks like it does everything you could possibly want to do PLUS looping!!
Indeed, all very cool, Pat.
However, this manual looks a little skippy and vague, and more to point this CC stuff will be new to me. Not sure If I will be able to use my BIAB tracks to trigger preset favorites at specific times in the tune or exactly what I will be able to achieve. So stay tuned I will appreciate dialing you in when I get stuck.
And here I am still using my old school vocoder, The Vocalist by Digitech. Play the parts in on the keyboard and sing into the mic plugged into it at the right time. When I used it live I would set up one SM58 from my right and another from the front angled toward each other and when the tracks on channel 7 played the box sang the harmony just like it was supposed to. Live play was different from studio, obviously, because it was real time and I couldn't always play the keyboard that was controlling it.
I have played with the new breed that follows the guitar and they are extremely cool.
(I've never found the real time triggering of harmonies by a guitar to be dependable enough for a gig. ) Like I said in the post, it sounds good enough for me.
If the guitarist is good enough, the harmonies will follow. A good example is: Amazing Grace. If it is played back thru a good system it does not dissipoint. I have had a few harmonizers before this one including the Digitech Studio which was midi controlable. At that time I was working with a Ketron--Solton MS 100 work station. It was nice to have it follow the left hand. I no longer use either of those. Thanks for the feed back. e.l.c.
It seems to have the hardest time, and not at all gross, going through chord changes while signing especially going to minor chords. Sometimes not knowing a C from an Am.
I have also noticed that some of this is my fault. At times I'll DL a MIDI to get the basic chord structure. I sometimes miss some of the oddball chords like F6, G6 etc.
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Quote:
I use 3 soundcards:
1. Audigy 2 ZS Notebook for the band
2. IKM Stealth for bass
3. Internal card to send,as you want, a guitar track to the Harmonizer.
I'm finding the tracking of a guitar part to be less then stellar. In hind site I should have gotten a MIDI unit. The only people that should get one of the guitar controlled rigs are those that play acoustic guitar solo and have no other options.
Don't say it Pat
using the internal card to send a separate signal to the vocal processor is an excellent idea, I would never have thought of that in a million years! In RB it should be possible to send different tracks to different audio outputs... instead of sending the guitar track, how about sending a sustained organ or strings track? The main consideration when triggering with audio is that all of the notes are played simultaneously. Guitars are problematic because the notes are all struck at slightly different times, which confuses the unit.
What I do to trigger chordal harmonies (basically the same thing the new audio units do) is:
1) I created a style that has only one instrument and one pattern (plays a simpl triad for every chord)
2) I named the style VOCALIST
3) when I want to add clean chords for harmonies, I load the VOCALIST style and generate a MIDI track, and it creates simple triads for each chord, without embellishments that tend to change the harmony
4) I send the midi chords to my unit, but if triggering via audio, you can route the soft synth's separate output to the vocal processor.
I bet that will work quite well... maybe even better than straight MIDI, because your unit has a newer faster engine.
This works out much better. I tried it on a couple songs that are more difficult and the harmonies were perfect. Thanks Pat.
I had to alter your Style though and move it to the piano part. There's trouble in them that hills with it on the string part. Not just your style. Seee my other post on the subject.
Oh I also changed it around so the chords always play in root position. My unit likes this best.
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This works out much better. I tried it on a couple songs that are more difficult and the harmonies were perfect. Thanks Pat.
thanks for letting me know it worked as hoped. I like it when one of my wild theories turns out to be true.
;-)
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I had to alter your Style though and move it to the piano part. There's trouble in them that hills with it on the string part. Not just your style. Seee my other post on the subject.
Oh I also changed it around so the chords always play in root position. My unit likes this best.
good ideas! I think I'll make both of those same changes!
What do you change to get chords in 'root' position?
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What do you change to get chords in 'root' position?
I interpreted it to mean that on the staff, you can position the triad in several possible Sequences:
EGC, GCE, CEG etc and I'm thinking John put C as first note on the staff. I'm not sure if that makes a difference to the harmonizer, since it needs to see all 3 notes to identify a chord.
I read that for this unit it's best to play chords that are in root position.
Ok, we don't 'get' each other.
I use the band in a box 'app' where you go in and identify which midi channel you want to export to and it does the work.
I forgot you are using Realband and have to wrap the cords on your own.
I do understand yer root position, and in a pinch to force a walking bass use slash chords, but I've never sat down with the midi on ch 5 and dissected it. Some day when I'm bored.
It sounds like calculus to me thus it's to be avoided like Miss Smith's grade 12 calculus course at TabbaccyHigh.
You guys do know that when I get my voicelive Touch you are going to have to go through this whole thing again.
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You guys do know that when I get my voicelive Touch you are going to have to go through this whole thing again.
Dan, you are clearly a very smart guy... I'm sure that you'll be up and running quickly even without help.
But if you hit a snag, There are several people on the forum using similar devices. Somebody will know the answer, and I bet everybody is willing to spend whatever time is necessary to talk through the stuff that is not so well explained in the manual.
Keep us posted!! You should be getting it any time now!
I use the PNOSIMP style for piano chords. Generate a midi piano track in RB and then change the RB style back to the original style. Make midi channel and harmonizer channel match - voila. Easy.
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I use the PNOSIMP style for piano chords. Generate a midi piano track in RB and then change the RB style back to the original style. Make midi channel and harmonizer channel match - voila. Easy.
aha!
I figured there was probably a stock style that would work... (but it took less time to make one than to search for one.)
Thanks for the heads-up, a lot of people will benefit from this tip!
Today I recived my brand new out of the box TC Helicon voiceLIve Touch. It actually arrived several days ago but I have been on the Road and just returned tonight. Set it up - no sound - checked wiring - checked ins and outs - check channel - setup - drivers - chekc DAW - push this, slide that, tap this, double tap that....and on and on for the first 30 minutes starting to get scared
- checked the manual - put a headpone jack in and yes there was my voice via the mic so it was at least on....
Then at about the 45 minute mark it was like the clouds parted the sun came through and the little box came to life - OMG! five voice harmony from a choir - voice doubling - verb so thick you could cut it with a knife, angelic upregister harmonies..was that really my voice? Frickin incredible....
Now the final word on Harmonizer is if you have any thoughts of letting your voice enter into your music you have to check this out.
there seem to be 2 schools of thought on vocal processors... you either love them or you don't. I'm in the group that thinks they're wayyy cool.
I predict you're about to have a lot of fun, Dan! Keep us posted!
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I use the PNOSIMP style for piano chords. Generate a midi piano track in RB and then change the RB style back to the original style. Make midi channel and harmonizer channel match - voila. Easy.
This is pure gold. I have my simple midi piano track in the mix,
Now how do I, "Make midi channel and harmonizer channel match". My harmonizer is currently only connected via USB and I don't see it appear in the options to send to a USB device. I will try to work on this and perhaps I can pharse a better questions other than "what now"?
Hold it, there was some Global Presets in the harmonizer to adjust, bear with me for a bit!