Is it possible to adjust an enternal soundcard so it will put out more volume? I ask this as in a previous post I mentioned my volume output via earphone jack from a new laptop was less than 50% of what it was with my old laptop. Needless to say if I can't get this puppy to crank up it's volume I will either have to get an external soundcard (and I just spend 600.00 on this Lenovo so I will hate to do that) of just get another laptop.
There is just not enough volume to drive the PA without having to vrank the PA volume up to the point of distortion. I am grateful for any and all advice.
PS: I am trying to reach Lenovo to ask this same question, but response is very slow.
Thanks,
Danny,
This doesn't sound quite right. I don't understand what you're saying "There is just not enough volume to drive the PA without having to vrank the PA volume up to the point of distortion." If there's not enough gain coming from the headphone jack it could never distort the front end of the PA. Maybe the soundcard is just defective and is distorting period. You just don't hear it until the PA is up.
Something is defiantly queer about this.
There is no distortion from the soundcard, but because the volume(while set at max)from the laptop is not 70% of what my old Lenovo was driving. Therefore to make up for the lower volume coming from the laptop I had to crank up the PA almost to max and therein lies the problem and the less than perffect sound out of the speakers.
In fact I just returned from Office Depot where we tested every laptop in the store and not one model drove the volume my old Lenovo did. Bottomline there is nothing wrong with my new laptop, it is normal in that the volume is lower than older models.
I understand that there may be some "volume driving" software out there of which I am looking into, or maybe a pre-amp or external soundcard.
Thanks,
This may be too dumb a Question , but have you looked at the control panel settings for types of speakers and possible volume increases ? You might have to get a usb sound card to fix the problem if it's the computer. My laptop uses a M-Audio mobilepre ,I bought on eBay for $40 came with Protools too that I didn't use and sold that back on eBay for $50 .
Danny,
Do you have one of the small mixers for recording?
Consider using it as a stereo preamp between the headphone out of the laptop and the input to the PA.
Of course, you should use two of the Line inputs on the mixer and not the Mic inputs.
That would give you at least two extra stages of gain to boost the sig into the PA and you likely already have a mini mixer, or can pick one up for little cash outlay.
You'll get the separate channel gain faders as well as the master fader, plus you will likely also have some physical EQ shelving as well.
--Mac
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Danny,
Do you have one of the small mixers for recording?
Consider using it as a stereo preamp between the headphone out of the laptop and the input to the PA.
Of course, you should use two of the Line inputs on the mixer and not the Mic inputs.
That would give you at least two extra stages of gain to boost the sig into the PA and you likely already have a mini mixer, or can pick one up for little cash outlay.
You'll get the separate channel gain faders as well as the master fader, plus you will likely also have some physical EQ shelving as well.
--Mac
When he said he plugs it into the PA I would hope he'd know that it has to go into some sort of mixer first. Not likely enough gain to drive just a power amp.He should either be using a mixer and amp or one of the box-top units. Either way there's something wrong if he can't drive the front end of a mixer or box-top with the output from the headphone jack. My Lenovo is no different then my old Toshiba in that respect.
Danny, you never answered my question about using the RED keys to up the volume.
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Danny,
Do you have one of the small mixers for recording?
--Mac
Exactly what I use from Laptop (Laptop1/8 headpone jack to RCA plugs input of mixer, then mixer main to PA). Guitar and vocal mic also go into mixer so I control all levels sent to PA.
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Danny,
Do you have one of the small mixers for recording?
--Mac
Exactly what I use from Laptop (Laptop1/8 headpone jack to RCA plugs input of mixer, then mixer main to PA). Guitar and vocal mic also go into mixer so I control all levels sent to PA.
This is SOP I would hope this is how he was doing it. In fact I'm going to assume this is how it's being done so....... I still think there's an issue with the Lenovo. Either with the actual unit or operator error.
You guys arent getting what I said.
I meant to use *a second small mixer* between headphone out and the line in of the PA's mixer.
But instead of viewing at as a mixer here, it would be functioning as a Line Amplifier to boost the signal that the main PA mixer is fed.
Not unorthodox at all, really, I do that quite often to obtain some extra inputs on the PA's mixer when needed, just press my home recording mixer into service jacked into one of the stereo line inputs of the main board and use it as well as the channels on the board. I have indeed done this to boost the laptop headphone signal into the main PA, too.
--Mac
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You guys arent getting what I said.
I meant to use *a second small mixer* between headphone out and the line in of the PA's mixer.
--Mac
Exactly - 
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You guys arent getting what I said.
I meant to use *a second small mixer* between headphone out and the line in of the PA's mixer.
But instead of viewing at as a mixer here, it would be functioning as a Line Amplifier to boost the signal that the main PA mixer is fed.
Not unorthodox at all, really, I do that quite often to obtain some extra inputs on the PA's mixer when needed, just press my home recording mixer into service jacked into one of the stereo line inputs of the main board and use it as well as the channels on the board. I have indeed done this to boost the laptop headphone signal into the main PA, too.
--Mac
Oh I most certainly did get what you said.We've been saying for years how the headphone output was perfectly fine and was totally adequate. And indeed it is. I bet 99% of the people here are using it into there mixer with no issues and no added gain stage. I have a new Lenovo and this is not a problem. No one else is having a problem. He appears to be the only one. Makes me curious as to why.
An experiment for you.
Plugged the Lenovo headphone out into the TAPE INPUT of my little Behringer mixer.Set the MASTER to 0. The TAPE IN has no other controls. Took one of my tunes and played it. 70% output on the Lenovo drives the mixer LEDs to 0. So.............
Something is wrong with his Lenovo, the PA OR the songs are mixed way to low.
Here's something just to toss on the pile.
I have 3 laptops. On one of them when I look at the internal sound card properties, I can adjust the output level. On the other 2, that is grayed out (Or GREYED out for my Canadian friends!!) and there is nothing to adjust as far as gain, just the volume control on the system tray.
Kicker?
All 3 are Dell laptop. Why 2 of them act differently, I have no clue. I have done EVERY Intel chipset update I could find and nothing changed. (FYI I use a program called Driver Genius that has treated me quite well when looking for driver updates.)
So bottom line, if your volume control is 100% and you have no gain controls on the sound card properties, maybe the thing just doesn't have ear splitting capabilities.
Of all the ways one might connect audio equipment, I like the 1/8" audio headphone jack the least. It is prone to failing with repeated use as the prongs inside get bent. You lose one channel, or the jack gets loose and you can't count on it staying in, and/or it gives you crackling noise with any vibration.
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Of all the ways one might connect audio equipment, I like the 1/8" audio headphone jack the least. It is prone to failing with repeated use as the prongs inside get bent. You lose one channel, or the jack gets loose and you can't count on it staying in, and/or it gives you crackling noise with any vibration.
I agree with this. I only use it to drive my Harmonizer.This isn't really relevant to his issue of course if you are thinking Matt that the jack might be messed up.Could be even though it's new.
Thanks, and I agree, it was likely not related to his original problem. My comments were more to encourage another solution for this different reason.
There's a good chance there is a hack out there for Eddie's Dell problem. Often it's software related rather than hardware (when things are grey'd out). Maybe not, and even if there is you have to decide if you trust the source.
As we've noted many times on these forums; music recording isn't a focus of most computer companies. Probably never even gets considered during design. We as recordists have to figure out how to make up for the shortcomings. That's what makes this forum great. Lots of knowledgable recording enthusiasts willing to toss out what they've learned along the way..
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This may be too dumb a Question , but have you looked at the control panel settings for types of speakers and possible volume increases ? You might have to get a usb sound card to fix the problem if it's the computer. My laptop uses a M-Audio mobilepre ,I bought on eBay for $40 came with Protools too that I didn't use and sold that back on eBay for $50 .
Yes,
Did all the adjusting I could via the OS (windows 7) and the computer controls.
Thanks,
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You guys arent getting what I said.
I meant to use *a second small mixer* between headphone out and the line in of the PA's mixer.
But instead of viewing at as a mixer here, it would be functioning as a Line Amplifier to boost the signal that the main PA mixer is fed.
Not unorthodox at all, really, I do that quite often to obtain some extra inputs on the PA's mixer when needed, just press my home recording mixer into service jacked into one of the stereo line inputs of the main board and use it as well as the channels on the board. I have indeed done this to boost the laptop headphone signal into the main PA, too.
--Mac
Mac,
I do have a stand-alone recorder but I am trying to avoid taking another gadget on gigs. So with that said I am into remixing my entire songbook. If I get tired of this process I will go to a small mixer I can build into my rack or an external soundcard.
It's just that this new laptop does not have the volume drive of the previous 3 old trucksters. Heck I even spoke with Lenovo tech and they told me in no uncertain terms that the new lappys (not only theirs but all of them) just don't push the volume of the older ones.
I have two gigs this week after the 1st tune on the 1st gig I'll know if the re-mixing is working or if I have to go to plan B.
Thanks for the advise and suggestions from you and the others who have offered input on this post, I sincerely appreciate the time and thought in my behalf.
Later,
Danny,
I would look into the purchase of one of those small standalone recording mixers such as the little Behringers for this purpose rather than go through remixing every song just to make the laptop work. For one thing, you know the songs are already mixed correctly and therefore they won't be once mixed to be louder on that lappy. For another, the sound may be loud enough once that's done, but the gain staging will still be wrong, can't avoid that with what you intend to do.
You can find one of those little mixers for under $30 these days.
The reason I suggest the use of the little mixer as a Line Amplifier into the PA is that a standalone Line Amplifier costs a lot more than the little mixers do, likely because of supply and demand issues. But the mixer can indeed be pressed into service to do the same thing as the Line Amplifier.
Another device that could be used here is the Active Stereo Graphic Equalizer, such as were popular as home stereo and PA devices. Most of them can deliver 12 to 15dB of gain, which should be plenty.
Adjust the signal, not the separae files, as it is the signal which is down, not the files.
--Mac
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There is no distortion from the soundcard, but because the volume(while set at max)from the laptop is not 70% of what my old Lenovo was driving. Therefore to make up for the lower volume coming from the laptop I had to crank up the PA almost to max and therein lies the problem and the less than perffect sound out of the speakers.
In fact I just returned from Office Depot where we tested every laptop in the store and not one model drove the volume my old Lenovo did. Bottomline there is nothing wrong with my new laptop, it is normal in that the volume is lower than older models.
I understand that there may be some "volume driving" software out there of which I am looking into, or maybe a pre-amp or external soundcard.
Thanks,
Danny, I've learned this lesson in the past as well. Not all internal soundcards are the same, nor is there any guarantee of equal output.
Follow Mac's advice - go buy the lowest end Behringer mixer. Use it in between your lappy and the PA mixer.
Done.
-Scott
Mac & Scott . . . Thanks looks like thats the way to go. I thank you guys and will keep you posted on the "new and inproved" volume increases.
Later,
Danny,
Just for my curiosity. What is the mixer or PA head that you are using?And what input are you using.
A Yamaha 300 Watt per channel PA driven right from the laptop 1/8 earphone jack. The very same setup I have been using with the old Lenovo for 6-8 years or so.
Later,
OK
What inputs are you using?
What model Lenovo?
Not sure what you mean re: inputs?
Lenovo Edge 420
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Not sure what you mean re: inputs?
Lenovo Edge 420
What holes on the Yamaha are you plugging the laptop into? what are the settings? What are the master settings? I'm just trying to see if this is a setup issue and not an issue with the New Lenovo. I will agree that there can be a difference in the output levels however I still believe the new one has enough drive to work properly. The old one may have just had a real hot output.
If you've settled on putting another mixer in line and don't want to be bothered just let me know.To me another mixer inline is silly. That Yamaha has more gain available then a barrel of monkeys.
I wouldn't even consider going from laptop to PA amp. I agree with inline mixer; not silly to me at all. Proper gain staging for the PA.
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I wouldn't even consider going from laptop to PA amp. I agree with inline mixer; not silly to me at all. Proper gain staging for the PA.
The idea Bob was to add ANOTHER mixer in line with the mixer in the Yamaha.That's silly. Of course I wouldn't run a laptop to a power amp.
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Danny,
Do you have one of the small mixers for recording?
Consider using it as a stereo preamp between the headphone out of the laptop and the input to the PA.
Of course, you should use two of the Line inputs on the mixer and not the Mic inputs.
That would give you at least two extra stages of gain to boost the sig into the PA and you likely already have a mini mixer, or can pick one up for little cash outlay.
You'll get the separate channel gain faders as well as the master fader, plus you will likely also have some physical EQ shelving as well.
--Mac
When he said he plugs it into the PA I would hope he'd know that it has to go into some sort of mixer first. Not likely enough gain to drive just a power amp.He should either be using a mixer and amp or one of the box-top units. Either way there's something wrong if he can't drive the front end of a mixer or box-top with the output from the headphone jack. My Lenovo is no different then my old Toshiba in that respect.
Danny, you never answered my question about using the RED keys to up the volume.
I said that already right here.
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A Yamaha 300 Watt per channel PA driven right from the laptop 1/8 earphone jack
That is what stuck in my head, from Danny a few posts up.
That's why I asked that.If we're chasing an issue with a laptop being run directly into a power amp all I can say is "wonders never cease to exist" A consumer level amp fine but not a pro amp requiring much higher levels.
Danny never really answered my question though did he. I just assumed.
OH!!!
Bob are you saying that your a young buck that equates PA=Power Amp ?
When an old buck like me equates PA= Public Address
Thus to me a PA System is a Public Address System that would have had a mixer/amp combo & speakers.
Actually I'm old enough to remember when the PA's weren't actually powered mixers, and there were three parts; the mixer, and the Amp/Speakers (which we refer to as the PA around here). Most gigs I would bring the mixer and Barry brought the PA (amp&speakers). Maybe it's a local thing. I guess most assume there is a mixer, since it is needed.
I remember the old cheap PA's that had an XLR connected to a single amp too, and was not meant for line level signals, just a mic. There are a few different configs I can recall and I don't remember Danny mentioning a mixer even though others here did. He kept saying 'directly to the PA', and having to crank it to point of distortion. No mention of mixer settings.
Seeing it's a Yamaha, I should have thought 'powered mixer' right away but I didn't.
Or maybe I did, and then threw that idea out, since Yamaha powered mixers are nice, and I would think even a laptop could get enough gain from one. They are not real noisy and have decent preamps in my experience.
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Or maybe I did, and then threw that idea out, since Yamaha powered mixers are nice, and I would think even a laptop could get enough gain from one. They are not real noisy and have decent preamps in my experience.
Exactly. The Yamaha PA heads are real nice and as i said LOTS of available gain. I use to have one. Also had the Peavey head as well.
I do believe based on what's now come to light that he's not using ANY mixer and indeed is just going to the Power Amp. BUT he sings!!!!! Got to have a mixer
Dannyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy helppppppppppppppppp 
I thought maybe he just played guitar along with old standards or something (no singing then). Using guitar amp and 'PA' only.
If using a mixer, are you *sure* you checked all the Win7 settings? Some are kind of hidden here.
Thinking on this, and skimming back thru, I don't think anybody asked him if he right-clicked the speaker icon and checked *all* the properties/levels there. I know on my Win7 machines there are quite a few hidden sliders.
In the device 'Levels' tab.
Click the little arrow bottom right 'tray' area.
Right-click the speaker icon and select 'Playback devices'
Highlite the device and click 'Properties' (may be listed as speakers or headphones)
Check the 'Levels' tab for mixer options. Check 'communications' tab too, to make sure Windows isn't reducing volume automatically.
.. at least that's the path here.
From his Web Site
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Danny is a guitarist and singer with over 40 years of professional playing experience currently specializing in playing the private parties and corporate event circuit. He writes and uses professional backup arrangements that provide a full professional sound true to the performances that made each song popular.
So he does indeed sing.
OK, didn't research it that much.
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The End
Not sure what this means? I just hope it is not because I did not respond to your latest questions fast enough. Either way thanks for your efforts.
Later,
Danny,
I meant the end as far as Bob and I go because until we hear back from you it's all speculation as to what you are really running for gear and how.
I think Bob and I agree on two things:
1. If you are plugging your laptop directly into a powere amp without any sort of mixer that this is wrong
2. If you are using a mixer already, as I suspect, then to add another mixer is also wrong as there should be plenty of gain.
I *think* John meant that this shows you use some sort of mixer already. If you confirm that, it probably IS 'the end'. Until you report back on how the extra mixer works out. Did you check the properties stuff I mentioned a few posts up?
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I *think* John meant that this shows you use some sort of mixer already. If you confirm that, it probably IS 'the end'. Until you report back on how the extra mixer works out. Did you check the properties stuff I mentioned a few posts up?
I'll go back to my original statement. In this situation to add another mixer to get enough gain certainly will work but to me it's just fixing the symptom and not the problem.
Bob & John,
I just got to check out the suggestions you pointed out and (fingers crossed) or maybe at this stage of the game it may be wishful thinking but I think I did gain some volume. However the only way to know for sure is when I kick off my fisrt tune at day after tomorrow gig. In the until then I thank both of you for the assistance and promise to let you know the final results.
Later,
BUT Danny you still haven't told us if you're plugging directly into the power amp or if you have a mixer as part of your original setup.
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BUT Danny you still haven't told us if you're plugging directly into the power amp or if you have a mixer as part of your original setup.
How about a picture of the gear. A picture will tell a 1000 words.
My PA does indeed include a 6 Channel Mixer - perhaps it is best called a Powered Mixer with Cabinets. I have connected directly from the 1/8 headphone out of the laptop to the RCA inputs of the powered mixer with good results. Howwever, I also setup with a small Beringer 4 channel mixer between the laptop and the powered mixer. I do this in two cases, 1) when I am using the house PA system and don't have easy access or control of the house board or 2) when I simply want to have control right where I am playing (sitting). In either case, I leave the PA along and I can adjust my levels for Guitar, BIAB and mic, from my music stand. I have a picture of the whole setup somewhere around here....
Let's make this easy:
Danny - report back with the model number(s) of the mixer and/or amp section of your PA. I'm guessing you have a powered Yamaha mixer; but perhaps not, maybe you have powered main speakers, or completely separate components.
Yamaha has nearly all of their user manuals for their series of products up on their website. After a short download, we'll get to see what inputs are available.
There should be a Tape in set of RCA connectors, or a set of stereo line-in connectors on 1/4" jacks if there's a mixer of any type involved, built-in amp or not.
However, this doesn't mean that your laptop has equivalent output at the headphone jack as what your old lappy did; even with all software controls set the same for the output volume. I've experienced this myself - even among the same name brand. Fact of the matter is, there's only a few actual lappy builders in the world that OEM them for all the brands and one particular brand doesn't always buy from the same maker. I don't think this is the case with Lenovo - pretty sure they are one of the brands that actually builds their own.
But, with that said, there should be sufficient make-up gain available in the mixer to account for a mismatch - so as to avoid remixing all of your backing tracks.
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BUT Danny you still haven't told us if you're plugging directly into the power amp or if you have a mixer as part of your original setup.
John & Bob,
Sorry but I thought I did mention that I am plugging right from the earphone jack to the "pictured here" Yamaha PA via RCA lines into the line in jack of the PA. Also that I have been doing the same thing for six years prior or so with other laptops with zero issues. Also I have my 1st gig tomorrow and I did make some adjustments as directed by Bob in another post that may have helped, I'll know tomorrow and will post results at that time.
Edited portion: The only ,difference in my setup is that I do not have powered speakers.
Please keep in mind the only thing that has changed since everything was sounding fine "for the past six years" is the laptop.
Later
Geez.
I for one already knew what Danny uses for his PA system because he has posted that info here in the past.
When you see, "PA" used as an abbreviation, it is always designating, "Public Address" system or PA System. More than 40 years in the business, both performing and as an electronics technician, I've never seen PA used to designate "Power Amp".
It is apparent that the new laptop that Danny has does not produce enough amplitude to drive the consumer level line inputs of his PA. Quit trying to compare a newer model Lenovo to an older model. Danny even said he went back to the computer store and auditioned a bunch of laptops and all of them exhibit the lower volume hassle, for whatever reason this appears to be designed in. Don't know what the laptop designers are thinking, what with the current level of consumer interest in the viewing of movies, videos and audio listening on puters, perhaps it is a sign that they are trying to sell folks more aftermarket sound devices, dunno. And don't care. If there is a problem and Danny has to do the gigs, solve the problem. Amplifying the output of the laptop using an inexpensive and tiny home mixer as a line amp can and will solve that problem for him.
--Mac
mac, i always assume pa means pennsylvania in any music-related context. either that or pa, meaning father, if we're jawin' bout bluegrass or corn whiskey.
Well, I grew up in southwest Pennsyltucky where we all thought the abbreviation for the state was PT.
And Paw allus had a dubya on the end of it.
--Mac
I'm not comparing an old Lenovo to a new Lenovo. I'm comparing HIS new Lenovo to MY new Lenovo with the same soundcard.This is why I persist on finding him the solution to his problem and not just a solution to the symptom.
As far as PA there was some concern he wasn't using a mixer to begin with.
Danny,
I thought I’d throw my 2 cents in on this after the gurus have weighed in. (Most of these other guys know a lot more about this than I do).
I know you’re trying to keep the amount of equipment down, but I would think you would WANT to have a small mixer sitting next to your laptop so you could tweak your levels as needed, even if you didn’t need a volume boost. The added benefit is being able to get that powered mixer out of your way and out of your line of sight. I would feel “crowded” if I had that powered mixer within reach, but I’d feel limited if I didn’t have a small mixer next to the laptop so I’d have some control over the levels.
JMHO.
Bob,
Points well taken but with my setup the Power Mixer fits (out of site from my audience) in the same rack on wheels on which my laptop sits. But for other reasons mentioned by you and others within this thread I may be small mixer shopping this weekend.
Later,
OK so you are resigned to a mixer.I'll help you here.
On sale. Great gear.
Soundcraft Mixer
How is yours holding up Jazzmandan? I had the older model (pre-xenyx) 602 and we beat that thing up for ten years before it finally died from being dropped one too many times. The power connector broke on the back. Barry said "wonder what it will cost to fix it?" I laughed knowing a newer one was only $50!
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I'm not comparing an old Lenovo to a new Lenovo. I'm comparing HIS new Lenovo to MY new Lenovo with the same soundcard.This is why I persist on finding him the solution to his problem and not just a solution to the symptom.
As far as PA there was some concern he wasn't using a mixer to begin with.
All you really know here is that the two different models use the same soundcard drivers and thus ID the internal soundcards as the same.
However - the big BUT - is the output AF power amplifier design. This is typically a completely different circuit than that of the sound device. Apparently the designers did not specify the laptop's power amp to have enough gain to it. Might have to do with the current Green fad, may be some other completely different reason, though. At any rate, the thing ain't makin' the grade, whether jacked into his PA or even just trying to power its own internal speakers.
--Mac
Danny--
Check out this thread, slightly different lenovo model, but same problem, apparently this fellow was able to solve it by removing the built in equalizer software, uninstalling the included driver and then letting Windows install a generic driver...
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-Edg...ork/td-p/412541 --Mac
As primarily an "eclectic" guitarist (like you, JAZZMANDAN?),
I love the boost and classical guitar "sounds" I can get out
of my L.R. Baggs Para-Acoustic...with a D.I. out into any of
my amps..A Fender Keyboard or a Behringer Keyboard or a Behringer
Bass Amp. You're probably familiar with this for its great boost.
Of course my fav for final mixdown is the ol' Behringer 9024!
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Or here is mine, at half the price I paid for it :
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-xenyx-802-mixer/631263000000000
I have this one as welll but being on sale for the same money I'd go the Soundcrafter.
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Danny--
Check out this thread, slightly different lenovo model, but same problem, apparently this fellow was able to solve it by removing the built in equalizer software, uninstalling the included driver and then letting Windows install a generic driver...
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-Edg...ork/td-p/412541
--Mac
AHA!!
Looks like there is some sort of issue. Don't take me wrong Mac I was just trying to push and make sure it wasn't operator error on the new machine. Looks like this may help or the inline gain amp will do it.I am really surprised at this though.One last thing on mine. In control panel go to:
Sound/speakers/properties/enhancements/disable all sound effects
Guys,
I know I said I would do the final test on a gig yesterday, well the gig was postponed. With this said I have on route from Musician Friend the little mixer John highlighted in a previous post just in case.
Thanks again to all who have been so diligent with their suggestions and concern
Later,