Hello all,
I know this subject has been discussed in a previous thread but I would like your opinion or advice on mastering the final mix. I am currently using Sonar X1 Essential and that came with Boost 11. This is really the only tool I have that I’m familiar with for the final mix and it does a great job but I am considering a plug-in, stand alone app, or upgrading Sonar. I know little about this and would like to know what you guys are using that works well. I like the idea of presets that come with some of the apps at least until I learn how to use it. I have looked at T-Racks and Ozone 4 but I know there are many more out there. I have the 10 day trial version of Ozone 4 but I haven't had the time to learn to use it although I have tried the presets.
Also those of you with Sonar X1 Producer – do you use what comes with the program for mastering or something else? Do you think the difference between the Studio version and Producer version is worth it? Do you use the pro channel for mastering? Does it come with presets?
I know it’s a lot of questions but I want to make sure I spend my money as wisely as I did with BIAB. For about the same money of some the plugins I could upgrade to Sonar X1 Studio or Producer but again I just don't know enough about the choices to make a wise decision.
I’m using Windows XP 32 bit, SonarX1 Essential, and BIAB 2011.5 EverythingPak.
Thanks for your time.
Hi MrEd,
I recently bought Ozone4 and find it exceptionally good. I use it with Reaper (by Cockos).
For many years I used Cakewalk/Sonar Home Studio and, about 12 months ago, changed to Reaper after Sonar 7. One of the reasons that I changed was because Geoffrey Francis has written some brilliant books on how to get the most out of this DAW. It's different from Sonar but well worth the effort to learn. (It's only $40 for home use.)
I have found that the many plugins that come with Reaper are terrific but I wasn't able to find one that does the job the Ozone does when it comes to mastering.
If you want to hear my latest song that was made entirely with Realtracks, Reaper and Ozone4, it's here (it's still a work in progress but you're welcome to listen) ...
... link to latest song(Please note, the above link is a streaming one so it may take a few seconds to start.)
Regards,
Noel
Noel thanks for the reply and wow what a great tune - very well done. Sounds really polished.
The various effects included with Ozone are very nice. I use it in RB with no problems.
Okay so what exactly is Ozone and what does it do for you when mastering?
And I would sell my soul to the devil to have a voice like yours. I really can't sing very well.
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Okay so what exactly is Ozone and what does it do for you when mastering?
http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/
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And I would sell my soul to the devil to have a voice like yours. I really can't sing very well.
If only it could be done, you and me would be in the same line... 
Tell ya what, Dan, my dear friend Rachel here in Ohio REALLY belongs in Nashville. She is THAT good. Alas, life happens....
I am going to inbox her web addy to you. I don't know about posting it publicly until I get her permission.
Ozone is worth checking out. Very nice.
There is a stand alone program that I like to use alot, I am not good at the final stages of mastering the finished product, and this program takes alot of the guess work out, as it is fully automated.
AAMS (Auto Audio Mastering System)
http://www.curioza.com/Link to the song, “The Outstretched Hand” That I used AAMS on:
http://www.dannyriddle.com/music/DannyRiddle-TheOutStretchedHand.MP3Keep The Music Alive!
Danny
I also use AAMS & think it is well worth the price. I mainly use it for it's readouts on all the various EQ & compression settings, and then go back & make adjustment based on that...AND you get 21 days to try it out...can not beat that!
Another one that folks rate highly is Hal-Bar, tho I have only tried it a few times...
jcspro, it's har-bal as in harmonic balance.
To those of you that jumped on the killer Tracktion deal months back, the FinalMix plugin that was included in Tracktion is an outstanding 'mastering' plugin but it only works in Tracktion.
Thanks everyone for your input. Some great suggestions and it's very much appreciated.
Danny I really like your song and it is a very good showcase for AAMS.
Thanks for sharing.
I downloaded a few plugs a while back i liked for mastering. T Sledge, was good, there were others. I also bought Sonar Essentials, recently, as well as Reaper. I find Reaper to be less cluttered, but i find Sonar to be slightly better. Reaper has a gazzillion small features that you can customize ever detail, but i find that confusing, and distracting.
Many like the Reaper evolutionary growth process, but as i said i find it to be a waste of time, there is update or change every few days, and one feel compelled to make the change, as if I am missing out somehow. Also my DAW is not internet connected so all changes have to be transferred by thumb drive or such.
All the crying over at Sonar to me is just that. I have not had one single issue so far with stability. I think if you do a good plug in search for mastering plugs you can get a half dozen or so and be fine. Really what you need is a solid Multiband EQ, a good compressor, a very clean limiter, and a spectrum analyzer. Having a better reverb, and such does not hurt.
Having a very clean mix to start with helps, making sure tracks are panned properly, that offending frequencies are tamed, goes a long way to polish a project. clean up the mud, stop any clipping problems, and you are really there.
Robh,
I wasn’t aware of any problems with SonarX1. I haven’t had any issues at all and I’m very pleased with it. I did try Reaper but I think I was already leaning toward Sonar and for me it works great but I know a lot of people use both.
I plan to in the next few days try some of the mastering software mentioned here and hopefully find something that I will be comfortable with.
Thanks
I've had a few challenges with SONAR Xi, but Ozone works fine with it on my system. Also, anyone with older versions of SONAR can continue to use them while testing X1, since they reside in separate installation folders.
Hi Don, Mr Ed, and Eddie1261,
Thanks for listening to my song.
Eddie: I composed the music, wrote the lyrics and then got Jason Wyatt in Nashville to sing the vocals because I'm not that great a singer!
Robh: My experience with Reaper updates is that they're pretty much like PG Music and come out at about the same rate.
Regards,
Noel
Yeah i hear you, but Reaper puts out a small update about every three of four days, and your system sees it and asks, i always feel like i should so what i do is constantly update. I do like Reaper a lot, and may end up using it, but i find MTS better at simple audio and midi tracking as it has far less options, but not really far less features and abilities, and i tend to like Sonar a bit better because the midi area is still pretty far ahead of Reaper.
We will see, I am going to give both Reaper and Sonar a solid shake down, and see which i personally like the best.
The other issue is i hope as RB matures it begins to close the gap.
Rob,
I agree. Reaper isn't as intuitive where MIDI is concerned but it's ok once you get the hang of it. What I normally do is to take my MIDI from BIAB as a wav file and then work with it as audio in Reaper.
If it's any help, what did I to learn Reaper was work through the instruction book and do all the suggested exercises using the demo project file "All Through The Night.RPP". It took a couple of weeks of learning but the time spent was well worth it in my opinion.
Cockos have approached the design of Reaper from a completely different perspective than the majority of DAWs. I found that this meant that what I had learned in Sonar was not always helpful with understanding Reaper. After my couple of weeks of "induction", though, I started to see just how easy Reaper made working with audio. Procedures like "auto crossfade" when a section is simply pasted in place, "splitting at zero crossing", working with "takes" as opposed to "tracks" (just to name a few techniques) have been invaluable to me.
If you get around to trying Repear again, it might surprise you. (Note: I find it better to set the Options | Themes to "Default_3.0"; I find teh visual layout of this theme easier to work with.)
All the best,
Noel
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Ozone is worth checking out. Very nice.
Once again getting confused. Someone said "I use it with Reaper". Okay, the WITH part is what throws me. Is Ozone not a standalone program? Is this one of those "drop to another software program" situations like moving a song from RB to Sonar?
I have never used "plug-ins" with RB. With Sonar I know I can add soft synths by clicking on a button and loading it, but the part that is confusing me is loading an executable program as a plug-in into another executable program. I know about loading my B3 or my Prophet soft synth into Sonar.
How do I do that in RB? And more importantly, why? Can I generate a track to play B3 on my plugged in soft synth rather than a Real Track?
Well, Ozone is a program that is a suite of integrated mastering utilities, and it runs as a plugin under another program. It is not a stand-alone program. It can run as a Direct X plugin, or a VST plugin.
I get an error 127 when I try to load either Ozone or Reaper.
Of course I don't know what I am doing, so that may be part of it.
By clicking on DX Plugins or DXi/VSTi Synths.... same error either way. One asks me if I want to load a .ax file, and there are none, and when I try to load .dll I get that error.
Reaper is a DAW like RB, but with a deeper feature set. It just does not do any RTs type stuff, it is really more like Sonar than Rb.
I use a lot of Plugins in RB. in any audio track just open the track up by clicking on the down arrow, and add FX with the Edit Dx box drop down. Or in the mixer view the FX button in the tracks.
A box will open put any Effect in any of the 4 slots.
To add synths in RB, just click the DXi button at the top tool bar, and add any available, or there is an option to add a VSTi to the list. Click that and browse and find any folder with .dll files for synths and click them.
If the track is a MIDI track, the top slot of the four slots will be for a synth, the next three will alow effects. Did you try to load Ozone in the synth slot, Eddie?
Use an audio track. Also Ozone is truly not meant to be used in the Tracks FX area. You should open the mixer, got to the bottom right and click the FX button for the A1 slot. This is the main output slot, or final output in RB. Put Ozone in one of those FX slots.
I've asked for a shortcut to those FX slots for a long time but haven't got it yet. It's a pain to have to open the mixer to get to those slots.
Finally, did you run the install for Ozone? If selecting the DX version it has to have been installed to the system, clicking the dll won't work otherwise. All DX effects have to be installed to registry in Windows. VST effects do not.
Oh, one more thing- the first time you use a new effect in RB, you have to open the FX slot, go to the bottom of one of the dropdowns and choose 'add vst', so RB knows where to find it after that. Then never move the dll file or RB won't be able to find it.