Router & Skype - PG Music Forums

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Hi all
My music computer is in the basement & I use a router to access the internet. The transmitter is connected to the cable box upstairs, as the crow flies, a distance of perhaps ten feet. My computer has a G force 7 vidio card & a Creative Audigy 2 sound card. Not the latest I know but work fine usually. My nephew is in Vancouver & I am in Ottawa & we are attempting to play together via Skype. He is vocal & guitar. I'm pedal steel. We see & talk fine but when we play, the audio breaks up completely. The camera is a new Microsoft product with built in mic. My questions are. Is it because Skype won't work well with a router? Are there good & not so good routers? My router is a Belkin "G". Your advice will be greatly appreciated...Hank

Voip and video conference/video call type facilities are not real time, they nearly are, but not quite, especially across the internet.

It might be possible to set Quality of Service (QoS) in your router to prioritise the appropriate protocols, but... The compression algorithms in the codecs are also somewhat lossy. The sheer quantity of data in the music and video will not be helping. In addition, many ISP's reduce priority on Voip and video call data that are not generated by services they directly provide - this could be happening anywhere along the data link.

The other thing to note is that packets containing this kind of data are not guaranteed to be delivered. If packets get out of order or dropped somewhere along the way they are not resent, the philosophy being that maintaining the flow of data in a timely fashion is more imnportant than data accuracy so missed packets stay missed.

Have you found that some times of day are better than others? If so, this could indicate that system load outside your home services could be where the real problem lies.

Also a "G" router is a bit slow, i thing the newer "N" routers are far faster.

But VoIP is going to be a problem for audio signal in "realtime" for something as difficult as live music. You might look into something a little more connected like a VPN tunnel, or something that is more dedicated. Still I think you are asking a lot.

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... We see & talk fine but when we play, the audio breaks up completely. The camera is a new Microsoft product with built in mic. My questions are. Is it because Skype won't work well with a router? Are there good & not so good routers? My router is a Belkin "G". Your advice will be greatly appreciated...Hank

If you can hear each other at the same time, but it is a matter of distortion, investigate the sound LEVEL of the instruments into the mics. Could easily be overdriving the audio stage. When you talk, you are not creating anywhere near the Sound Pressure Levels that amplified instruments may be generating in the same space.

Another factor that likely rears its ugly head here is one of Bandwidth. The spoken voice only requires about 2 to 3 KHz of bandwidth for intelligibility and a digital service such as Skype likely limits the Bandwidth available to you to somewhere in that area. Thus they can fit quite a few more phonecalls into the same territory that one fullrange audio connect would require. These days, fullrange audio of CD quality is considered to be "20 to 20" or more orecisely, from 20Hz at the bottom end to 20 KiloHertz at the treble side. Muscial instruments will generate tones completely outside the bandwidth of a digital voice connection and that may also lead to something that can be described as audio distortion - and there ain't no cure. Can;t fit twenty pounds of you-know-what into a three-pound sack.

To find out if it is your Router ahould be dead simple, actually: Eliminate the router from the chain as a temporary experiment. May have to carry the computer somewhere to the router on that day, or perhaps just use a long network cable to attach directly to the modem, bypassing the router entirely and see what happens then. I wouldn't think that the Router could cause audio breakup, but you are still likely to incur bad SYNC problems as a digital phone line such as Skype provides does not necessarily happen in Realtime, there are plenty of places where digital delay will come into the equation, good enough for conversation but not very likely able to be used with music. You should have TWO wait state situations going on, one on your transmissions and another at the other end coming back to you. It does not work in realtime like the old analog phone systems did, which were also a tad bit out of realtime due to certain delays of wire length and amplification, microwave linking, etc. but were still a lot closer to realtime in many cases.

I doubt if Skype can be used for the purpose of jamming music in realtime due to the syncing problem.

--Mac

Thanks all for replies. I did carry instruments, Amps etc. upstairs, eliminating the router & everything worked well. No break up. No sync problems, just a sore back. I will look into the "N" type router....Thanks again....Hank

Umm, hold it, were you talking about a router or an access point? You CANNOT connect to the internet without a router of some kind (may sometimes be called a modem, but it will incorporate a router function), but an access point is for wireless (WiFi) - some routers also have WiFi support E.G. there is certainly a Belkin router that supports wireless G as well as the necessary routing function...

No Lawrie, I meant that the upstairs router does not involve the wirless router. It is dirct to the cable box. Thanks for your interest...Hank

Quote:

Thanks all for replies. I did carry instruments, Amps etc. upstairs, eliminating the router & everything worked well. No break up. No sync problems, just a sore back. I will look into the "N" type router....Thanks again....Hank

Good show.

But I would prefer to simoly run a wire if at all possible.

1) Cost effective, even if you have to purchase a ready-made cable of a set length to make the trip.

2) Bandwidth of the wire is almost always going to be bigger (and thus also faster) than any wireless situation will be.

3) The cable connect is much more robust than wireless.

--Mac

Thanks Mac
Is the length of the connecting cable relevent? Drilling holes large enought to pass the plug, taking the short route, versus down the hall then down the stairs etc. I would guess the long route is roughly 40ft.....Hank

100 feet would be just fine. So you are good to go.

If you want to snake only wirepass holes and have the knowhow, equipment (long flex drillbit and fishtape) then you might look into cable with no ends and pick up some ends and the proper crimping tool. I ran a line outside of my friend's house and down the outside wall with appropriate cable clamps, that sometimes is an easy straight run, just pick up a couple of thruwall kits designed for outdoor use for the two holes. And don't forget the all-inmportant dripleg loop downwards on the cable at each point so that water will run off the cable onto the ground outside and not down the cable and inside the wall...

--Mac

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Umm, hold it, were you talking about a router or an access point? You CANNOT connect to the internet without a router of some kind (may sometimes be called a modem, but it will incorporate a router function), but an access point is for wireless (WiFi) - some routers also have WiFi support E.G. there is certainly a Belkin router that supports wireless G as well as the necessary routing function...

This is nitpicking, but the true definition of a router in a home use context is "a device that allows sharing of one connection". The device that actually connects is not a router. It has become an interchangeable term in the last 10 years or so, but to say "you can not connect without a router" is incorrect. And with cable and DSL, modem is not technically correct either, since with digital signal, there is no MOdulate/DEModulate going on.

So to the original poster, you need to get your terms straight. The MODEM (and I will defer to the masses in using that term) is the connection device. The router shares your one connection with many workstations on your network. Networking school defines router as "a device that connects networks", and that is accurate here as you are connecting your (inside your house) network to your (internet provider's) network. So if you have one computer, you can indeed connect without a router.

Now, the topic was SKYPE, or some other VOIP type communication device/network (Vonage, VOIP.com, etc) and THEY confuse the issue further by calling THEIR device a router. And then you get the combo devices that are a router and DSL modem in one (2Wire, Sagecom, Netopia) and I don't know WHAT to call those!!! Mouters? Rodems?

With respect Eddie, I was not nit picking - my original answer was predicated upon the device being a router, NOT an access point - I had no idea he was using wireless - if I had I would have had a whole set of other responses that would have been far more relevant.

FYI I make my living working with this stuff.

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The device that actually connects is not a router. It has become an interchangeable term in the last 10 years or so, but to say "you can not connect without a router" is incorrect.

Actually, every DSL modem you've ever seen IS a router (unless it has been configured as a bridge which will allow another piece of equipment to perform the login function - if this device is you computer then that is the only time there won't be a router in your home on a DSL connection) as it will be performing NAT (Network Address Translation) which is a router function.

In addition, there is most certainly a MOdulation/DEModulation function for a cable connection I.E. a modem of some kind. If your cable provider gives you an ethernet port to connect to that's fine, but on the other end of that is a modem which they will have supplied. Even in a fibre to the home situation there is a conversion from optical to electrical media - usually called a media converter, but it will still fill the bill as a modem - though in this case it needn't necessarily be a router as well (though it probably will).

Mac, you dont' happen to live close by? Didn't think so.I have friends that I am going to show your suggestion to. It won't be for a few days as I will be enjoying a week of USA hospitality. Michigan to be exact. Big family wedding. thanks, I will let you know how it all works out....Hank