seeking recommendations for external speakers to make my laptop playback louder

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All --

I am seeking recommendations for external speakers to make my laptop playback louder.

Here is the deal.

Playing Biab and my digital piano with headphones on sounds great.

However, I am working with individual musicians on various parts of a tune.

For example, I have a singer and I play piano and I want to have Biab play the drums and bass. I can use the built-in speakers in my digital piano (which are OK for small-room size playing), a Casio PX-130.

We cannot do this with headphones and we cannot do this with the built-in laptop speakers because they are too soft and have very little sound quality (bass range for instance).

So, I want to plug a cord into my headphone-out-jack and plug the other end into something-- like an amp-- and play it loud.

Ideally, whatever I get should work with the case when I am working 1-on-1 with a live drummer and Biab is playing bass.

Plus, of course, I am trying to do this on a budget, so I do not want to over-buy either.

BTW, one idea that I have is to get an amp that will be kind of dual-purpose. When I want to rehersey in a small room, I use the amp to will play Biab parts and I use my digital piano's built-in speakers. And, if I need to gig at a small open mike or lounge, I can bring the amp and use it to make my keyboard louder there. Etc.

I have been looking at stuff like this...

Behringer KT108 15-Watt Keyboard Amplifier

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-KT108-15...ds=keyboard+amp

Pignose PB-30 PB-30 Bass, Keyboard & Acoustic amplifier

http://www.amazon.com/Pignose-PB-30-Keyb...ds=keyboard+amp

Peavey Peavey KB 1 20W Keyboard Amp

http://www.amazon.com/Peavey-KB-20W-Keyb...ds=keyboard+amp

...so would they work for Biab playback?

What would you get if you had to solve this issue and had up to $300 to spend (but wanted to stay under $200 if possible)?

If possible, please mention brands, models, makes, wattage, etc, if you can-- I have limited knowledge in this area.

Thanks.

-- Mark Kamoski

http://www.klipsch.com/bookshelf-speakers

Klipsch has always been my "go to" choice for speakers because you can't go wrong with any of their speakers.

have you checked Craig's list to see if somebody is unloading an amp at a ridiculously low price? It's practically a cultural cliche that kids gear up on dad's money, then when they leave home and get married they sell the stuff for far less than its worth to buy diapers. Easy come, easy go.

Ads usually mention the make and model, and you can do a web search to determine if its a good deal or not.

KRK Rokit RP-5's, Gen 2 self powered speakers. I have a set of Gen 1 and a set of Gen 2s. That's $300 right there. Combined with a Behringer 802 mixer would give you an excellent combo and a nice recording setup as well.

Gary

If you're wanting to use this for live performance, you might want to re-think your output power. If you're looking at 15-30 watts you could struggle, or find you have to run it on 10, which won't give you the best quality.

Hopefully, John (Silvertones) will wade in on this one - he's the one to ask about live rigs.

ROG.

"And, if I need to gig at a small open mike or lounge, I can bring the amp and use it to make my keyboard louder there. Etc."

Your budget is a bit low for what you want to do, and 15 watts is not going to cut it live - period. If you're not singing, just playing BIAB and your keyboard, look for a used guitar amp on CL. An 80 watt ss guitar amp will be plenty loud for an open mic.

If you need a bit more, look at some of the PA packages most retailers are selling.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/peavey-audio-performer-pack-portable-pa

Regards,

Bob

Just for a point of reference, when I was playing in bands, my KEYBOARD rig alone contained a 200w per side amp running stereo through Yamaha speakers. For live PA applications, you would be best served to buy the biggest amplifier you can. You can always turn down. Eventually, with a small amp, you will run out of "up". Then the tendency is to turn up the input levels, which leads to clipping.

Read up on amplitude vs volume. The short version is that amplitude level (I guess you can call it the gain stage) is the level you send into the amp. Volume is the amount of power you push OUT of the amp. Your amplitude is finite. If you go "into the red" you start to clip (distort). Rather buy more wattage than you think you'll ever need and give yourself the headroom.

You can find mixers and amps all over the internet. Craigslist and eBay are a gold mine. A typical quick and portable rig would be an 8 space rack with a mixer (4 spaces), a power amp (2 spaces), an EQ (1 space) and a digital reverb (1 space).

I don't know your level of experience with this stuff, so I will explain that a "space" is a 1 3/4" standardized unit of measure, so a 2 space unit is 1 3/4" x 2, or 3 1/2" total. Thus an 8 space rack, holding 8 x 1 3/4" is 14" of total space. Some company makes a really nice 12 space tabletop rack for like $30. I had 2 of those before I bought my rolling server rack that has 44 spaces. That allowed me to mount a full sized mixer and a bunch of 1 space units in the rolling rack.

I missed this part:

"Ideally, whatever I get should work with the case when I am working 1-on-1 with a live drummer and Biab is playing bass."

In that case, I would agree with Eddie:

"For live PA applications, you would be best served to buy the biggest amplifier you can."

We run 600 watts at 4 ohms through two Yammy S115V's just for vocals and backing tracks, and we're just a duo!

Regards,

Bob

Do not buy a guitar amp. Guitar amps are designed to be very midrange focused. Go for a keyboard amp or a smaller used pa system.

Yeah, the key word here is bass. Bass takes power and larger speakers than you think you need. The instant you find the bass is getting buried and you turn up a small home rig, bam there goes the woofers in a blaze of glory.

Every single person who has no experience at this makes the same mistake at first. Too small, not enough power. One good pro level 12" 250W powered PA speaker by Mackie, JBL, EV or Yamaha will get you started and $300 should get you a good clean used one. Imho a guitar amp won't cut it because it's set up for guitar sounds not a full range sound which you need for Biab backing tracks. You said how good everything sounds through headphones, those are full range not just for guitar.

For small gigs I use a pair of 12" Electro Voice (EV) powered speakers that I bought used one for $275 and the other $300 but even that is not good enough as soon as I get a crowd of 25 or more if I'm playing bass. They're fine for just my keyboard stuff but not adding the bass. The bass is very difficult. You have to have a robust rig to play bass even in someone's living room as soon as you have other players. For that I use a regular PA setup, two JBL Eon 15's powered by a 500W Peavy amp. You think you won't need what I'm describing but with bass you do. Playing with other people even in your house, you and your friends want it to sound like a real band and the volume goes up. A strong singer even in your house with no mic is louder than you think. I have a 5'8 grand piano in my living room and I've had singers and sax players over. Those people are trained to blow or sing hard with control and can get get really loud. I've had to tell my sax friends to stand a little off to the side because he's blowing my head off and I have to dig into my piano to keep up with them and that's with no amps at all. Believe me about this. Just that pure acoustic volume level will completely blow out what you think are nice sized home studio speakers.

Go into the PA department at any big music store and check these pro speakers out. Those sell new for around $500 or so. And don't be fooled by thinking 10" powered speakers will be good enough. I bought a pair of used 10" Yamaha's many years ago thinking that and no, they were only good enough for monitors right next to me, the keyboard still had to go out through bigger stuff even at low volumes. Fact of life as a musician.

Bob

I only suggested a used guitar amp because they can be found all day long for cheap on CL.

Sure, the guy can get JBL's, Mackies, power amps, mixer, subs, and a fabulous light show - but can he do it with this?

"...but wanted to stay under $200 if possible."

I don't think the OP was looking for Van Halen's rig.

Regards,

Bob

All --

*** UPDATE TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION ***

Thanks for the GREAT responses.

OK, it looks like my budget is too low to buy something worthwhile that will "grow with me", etc.

As such, I would increase my budget and pay $400-$600 because that makes more sense.

Also, when I say "whatever I get I want to be able to use at a gig at a small club or something like that", I am saying that "I want to be able to use it to make my digital piano loud enough to keep up with the rest of the band" -- but -- I do not intend to buy equipment to serve the band at-large. I envision that each player brings his/her amp-- bass brings an amp, guitar brings an amp, keyboard brings an amp, singer brings an amp, and drummer brings a full kit.

I thought that at some point we would need a mixer and put everything through a pa, for a "real" performance, but to start, we could just "everyone brings their own amp and that is good enough for rehearsal".

Also, I am hearing a lot about getting a full-range amp (keyboard or pa) and that is fine and I will do it. However, I am wondering how I can plan an "upgrade" and "scale up" path. So, get 1 amp now (whatever size) then use that for rehearsals and Biab play-through for missing backing parts. Then, add another one (of the same size and type) to scale-up for a bigger sound and prepare for a small club.

Is that doable and, if yes, then what kind of wattage am I looking for?

And is there any difference between a "keyboard speaker" and a "pa speaker"? Which is better?

Thanks and please keep the good answers coming, adjust as necessary given my "new budget" etc.

I appreciate it.

-- Mark Kamoski

Between Craigslist, eBay and the used items at Guitar Center, and you can look at the used gear from EVERY store in the USA on their web page, you can find some steals.

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.p...;gonew=1#UNREAD
The small rig would be ideal:
1.Two Kustom KPC10 speakers
2. 100watt per side amp
3. dual 31 Band EQ
4. Behringer mixer.

Quote:

Also, I am hearing a lot about getting a full-range amp (keyboard or pa) and that is fine and I will do it. However, I am wondering how I can plan an "upgrade" and "scale up" path. So, get 1 amp now (whatever size) then use that for rehearsals and Biab play-through for missing backing parts. Then, add another one (of the same size and type) to scale-up for a bigger sound and prepare for a small club.

based on what you're saying here, I would recommend a keyboard amp with a line out jack. The jack will let you send output to the PA if you need to scale up. And by buying an amp instead of a PA, you won't be paying to amplify the whole band.

It's hard to recommend wattage without knowing more, but I think you'll find a lot of options in the 50 to 100 watt range. That should be plenty loud enough for practice and small to medium sized gigs. If you go larger with a PA, the amps wattage won't matter if the PA is loud enough for the venue.

Jazz doesn't tend to be as overpowering as rock, so 100 watts might be overkill for jazz keyboard, but it would give you plenty of headroom. Jazzmammal plays jazz keyboard, so his recommendation should be golden.

Just as an FYI, this is what I use to push 2 Yamaha speakers (connected in parallel to 2 JBL higher frequency range speakers).

That Peavey mixer is from like 1996 and was something like $150. 6 mic ins and 4 stereo channels that can also be used as 8 mono channels by panning L&R. Effects loop, tape in and out. Tracked down the last set of rack ears on the planet (that mixer is LONG out of production) from a warehouse in Mississippi for $30. (6 spaces)

That EQ I bought used for $40 on Guitar Center's used gear web page. (2 spaces)

The Alesis reverb I bought for $25 on Craigslist. (1 space)

The power amp is 450 per side (3 spaces), and it's an amazing story. I posted on Facebook that my power amp took a dump. Within TEN MINUTES there was a text message from a friend who said he had one he'd give me. I drove up to his house to pick it up, brought it home, took the cover off, blew the junk out, sprayed the pots with tuner cleaner, and it is in it's new home at the bottom of the band's practice PA rack. I gave him 2 tickets for him and his wife to attend our reunion show and we called it even.

The rack is a 12 space tabletop rack that costs $30 new from some company in that state up north. (Ohio State fans can't bring ourselves to name that state up north.)

So, to recap.

$150 for a mixer (and you can do better for used gear).
$30 for the rack ears (you may not even care to mount it).
$40 for a stereo 31 band EQ.
$25 for a digital reverb (and I have 4 of that model, all eBay or Craigslist finds).
$50 for 2 tickets in trade for a strong power amp.
$30 for a rack.

$325 for that whole rig.

I can't say enough good things about the Behringer EuroLive B205D monitor speakers. 150 watts at $150.00 each. I play dinner gigs constantly with them, running the BIAB tracks, a sax player, guitar, and two vocals through them at the same time. No distortion and plenty of volume. Quite often we're asked to turn down. These things only weigh 7 lbs. Most of time, I leave the larger EV speakers and the Bose Model II at home. They're overkill and too heavy to tote for most of the gigs we play.

Thinking along the same line as Pat, does anyone here own or use a Roland BA-330 portable amp?

Yes, they are pricey, but the reviews look great, the size, portability, and most of all, the enormous flexibility looks terrific for all sorts of uses and combinations, which sounds like what the OP is after. Wouldn't need a mixer, FX or much of anything else... and of course, for that big bass sound, it can always go out to a bigger amp or PA. It would certainly meet all the needs, present and future, of the OP... take a look: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BA330/

Anyway, I am really asking for reviews for myself... Maybe I can be busking again on the Santa Monica Mall -- altho I may not be able to afford to pay off the cops.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVKB4

Mark, don't forget what I said about bass. I don't know how good you are as a keyboard player but I do a lot of piano and organ. Both of those can be bass heavy even if I'm not playing left hand bass. One night at the local jazz club I work at we were doing Revelation by the Yellowjackets. That has a strong rocking left hand gospel thing going on in the same octave as the bass. We had a decent crowd, maybe 40 or so and they were talking so we were not rock & roll loud but fairly strong and I blew out the woofer in one of my EV's. My 12" EV's are 225 watts each. That sounds like a lot but not when you're punching some left hand piano like I was. Organ is even worse. A big two handed organ smear will kill weak speakers. What I'm talking about here are called transients. Your average power output may be only 50-75 watts but a peak like that can jump to 300 or so in an instant and that's enough to blow stuff up. In amp speak that's called headroom so your rig has to have the headroom to handle a split second transient even if the overall volume is fairly low. If I'm playing left hand bass those EV's definitely won't cut it even at that fairly quiet jazz place. I have to bring in the 15" JBl's. And yes, a keyboard rig is the same as a PA, it has to be because a keyboard can put out a full freq range.

Biab created backing tracks are already compressed so those transients are smoothed out that's why John's small rig using Kustom 10's is ok because he's one guy using backing tracks but playing a keyboard live is a whole other thing. I would blow those 10's out in a heartbeat unless I'm just playing piano at an acoustic volume level. One strong hit on my keyboard and I'm in the stratosphere as far as power is concerned because it's not compressed processed sound, it's live. It's the same problem people have with recording live drums. Drums are usually compressed at the input because otherwise you have to turn the input gain way down to allow for the occasional super hot rim shot.

Bob

*** UPDATE 2 TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION ***

Thanks for all the great advice.

I think a good plan is to get a PA speaker to start, at least 100w, and then add a 2nd one ASAP.

I am trying to navigate through it all of the option and I am not sure about 2 points.

(1) Should I get a PA powered-speakers or non-powered-speakers?

(2) Should I get a PA with a built-in mixer or not?

(Note that I am trying to remain budget conscious here.)

(Note that I am trying to buy something that can be integrated into a larger system-- such as buy one speaker now and then daisy-chain more onto that later as budget permits.)

What do you think?

Please advise.

Thanks.

-- Mark Kamoski

I prefer components because if yoru powered speakers blow out, you have no amp and no speakers. If you have an amp and speakers, and your amp goes out, you still have speakers.

You can buy this stuff SO CHEAP if you look around. You can find a 16 channel Mackie mixer for $100 on eBay or Craigslist. Power amps and speakers, watch the used gear at Guitar Center. Enclosures can be found there for $50 used.

If you get powered speakers, you CAN'T EVER plug an amplified signal into them, thus the component approach.

Example: I needed rack ears for my Mackie. Nobody had ears for it. I found a mixer with the ears for $100. Bought it, removed the ears, mounted my mixer, sold the one I took the ears off for $100, so I got free ears.

Just shop around.

I agree with Eddie - keep everything separate and you're more flexible if anything goes down.

Also, I've never liked the idea of putting a circuit board into an enclosure which is eventually going to shake it to bits.

ROG.

Dear Eddie1261 and ROG --

Regarding this...

Quote:

I prefer components

...it sounds like a component-based approach is good.

Yes, I will shop for used gear.

(But I am going to link below to Amazon, in order to avoid dead links to CraigsList stuff that might sell.)

Here is my guess if I go the component-based route...

(1) I need at least 1 "unpowered PA speaker" something like this...

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-EUROLIVE...rds=pa+speakers

...or this...

http://www.amazon.com/PYLE-PRO-PASC12-Tw...rds=pa+speakers

(2). I need a small "mixing board" something like this...

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-XENYX-10...ds=mixing+board

...or this...

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-802-Prem...mixer+amplifier

So aside from speakers and mixer, in simple terms, what else do I need?

Please advise.

(I know that I need to make a trip to the local music shop and talk to them but the feedback on this forum is so very good and helpful that I really want to see what you would recommend to a newbie.)

Thanks.

-- Mark Kamoski

Dear J. Larry --

Regarding this...

Quote:

I can't say enough good things about the Behringer EuroLive B205D monitor speakers. 150 watts at $150.00 each. I play dinner gigs constantly with them, running the BIAB tracks, a sax player, guitar, and two vocals through them at the same time. No distortion and plenty of volume. Quite often we're asked to turn down. These things only weigh 7 lbs. Most of time, I leave the larger EV speakers and the Bose Model II at home. They're overkill and too heavy to tote for most of the gigs we play.

...that sounds like it might be one good way to start.

Can they linked together, so that one can have 1 and then add another and another and etc?

That is, what if I had 1 of these and needed to "scale up"?

Please advise.

(I know a lot of folks here are advocating a component-based approach; but, this seems like it might be a quick and easy and inexpensive way to get up-and-running for rehearsals and at-home practice with Biab, etc.)

Thanks.

-- Mark Kamoski

First off I would never avoid Craigslist because in the past you may have found a dead link here and there. Just don't go back any more than a few days. Once again, go to www.guitarcenter.com and look at the used gear. There are MOUNTAINS of gold in there. And if you want something at another store, they will ship to your local store if you know how to ask. You have a local recycler newspaper near you? Your local news for sale ads? Garage sales? Take advantage of the awful economy when people are selling everything but their family members to buy food and pay rent. Here in Ohio the streets are jammed with parked cars every weeked from the garage sale hunters.

Now, once in a decade will you find a Les Paul or vintage Strat at a garage sale, but I have done well just by applying myself and spending some time shopping. I have 4 Guitar Center stores within a 45 minute drive from my house. At my corner is a local music store, and there are 4 more of those within 5 minutes. Most stores now do consignment so you will find used gear everywhere.

Also remember that what you need NOW may not be what you need in 2 years, so unless you want to go through this again in 2014, buy now for future expansion. A small 8 channel mixer might work today but in 2 years you may have added a drum machine, a vocoder, and another singer. Then what? ALWAYS buy more than you think you need. To move from an 8 channel mixer to a 16 will not double the cost. A 100w amp vs a 200w amp will not double the cost. Remember, don't be afraid to ask for deals. I bought an amp from someone for my live keyboard rig (100w per side) and he wanted $150. I told him for $150 he could keep it and to call me in a month because he will still have it if he is insisting on $150. I got it for $90. I went to $75, he went to $125. I went to $85, he went to $100. I went to $90 and we shook hands. You also need to read your seller. If the guy's place looks like he doesn't have money for luxuries like, you know, soap, he will take what you offer.

Around Christmas of 2010, I ended up with an Epiphone Dot Special, an Epiphone Les Paul, and a Squire Strat for $325. When I sold them individually last year I got $450 out of them. And one of them I gave a bargain on because it was a young kid.

Point being, take your time and explore every avenue, and remember, that $100 amp you find online is going to cost $40 to ship to you.

Quote:

Can they linked together, so that one can have 1 and then add another and another and etc?

you use this term "LINKED TOGETHER" a lot. What do you mean "linked together"? Everying can be "linked together" somehow. If you mean run one speaker to the next and to the next and the next, no because you are changing the load (resistance measured in ohms) by daisy chaining. If your amp is not rated for loads down to 4 ohms, you are really going to stress the amp. Thus the component concept.

MIXER
-to-
CROSSOVER
-to-
HIGH AMP -> tweeters
MID AMP -> midranges
LOW AMP -> woofers

Now, all in one type speakers have the crossovers built in (Peavey 3020 is a great example if you have 3 men and 2 boys to move them) but you still need wattage to drive them. Like 400w per speaker.

Honestly, you simply can't cheap out on your PA. Your product will suffer, and your marketability will suffer with it. When people ask you to TURN IT UP, and you have no more UP to turn, you are done. Your only other place in the gain stage is to send a hotter signal, and then you are going to distort at the input stage.

You CAN always turn down. Buy more amp than you think you will need. Trust the experience here.

Regarding this...

Quote:

First off I would never avoid Craigslist because in the past you may have found a dead link

...yes, you are quite right...

...I should have been more clear...

...what I was trying to say is "I will avoid posting links to CraigsList items here in this thread because when those items get sold the links start to die but I will check-out CraigsList when I am actually shopping, so I am just going to post some links to Amazon stuff so I can ask 'should I get something like this?' and then link to it for your kind review", etc.

Regardless, thanks for the great input and I will keep it all in-mind.

-- Mark Kamoski.

All --

I just thought I would follow-up regarding my speaker search.

After 2 purchases and 2 returns (thanks for the no-hassle returns http://www.WalMart.com ) I finally settled on a pair of these...

Behringer B215D Eurolive Speaker Active 550-Watt 2-Way PA Speaker System with 15_inch Woofer and 1.35-Inch Compression Driver - Black

...at Amazon there are lots of reviews...

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-B215D-Eu...+eurolive+b215d

...at WalMart I was able to order and ship-to-store for free, plus a truly no-hassle return policy...

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Behringer-Eurolive-Active-2-Way-PA-Speaker/17656029

...and these things are pretty nice and pretty loud.

Thanks for all the great advice. I ended up using a mix of the various bit of advice that I got here and elsewhere. I really think that I made the right overall choice for me.

(Now I need to pick out a simple mixer.)

Thanks again.

-- Mark Kamoski

MY netbook just doesn't have enough umph to drive the speaker input that I need into the monitor. I got a usb device Xonar by ASUS. I think it was areound $36 on amazon. Wow! Without it I had the gain up to 3/4 and with it at 1/4. The sound quality is also a big improvement. I think it's sold for headphones, but if you have powered speakers it works quite well, IMO

Stan