After reading about John's problems with his new gig, I wonder how long it will be before it becomes uneconomical to play music anywhere. Here in the UK we have the Performers Rights Society which collects money from anywhere that plays live or recorded music, including places like the hairdresser who has the radio on. No one wants to see songwriters ripped-off, but whatever happened to common sense?
Now we also need an entertainment license to perform anything, anywhere. This means, for example, that a group of people singing Christmas Carols outside a house need a license. If they move to another house, they need another license because it's a different location. Now look at the penalties for breach of this law -
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LIST OF OFFENCES UNDER THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT (MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS) (NI) ORDER
1985
OFFENCE PENALTY
WHERE THERE HAS BEEN NO ENTERTAINMENT LICENCE ISSUED
Provision of dancing, singing or music or any
entertainment of a like kind held indoors
Fine of up to £20,000 and/ or a maximum
of 6 months imprisonment
Provision of public musical entertainment held
wholly or mainly in the open air on private land
Fine of up to £20,000 and/ or a maximum
of 6 months imprisonment.
So, if our singers visit ten houses, they could get a fine of up to £200,000 ($300,000) or five years imprisonment.
How long before they just ban music altogether?
ROG.
The home concert scene is alive and well in the USA - I don't believe there are such laws against performance in the home, (or in churches for that matter). Does that wording cover the whole of the law? What is the cost to obtain the so-called 'entertainment license'?
ROG,
That reads like something from the Middle Ages. Isn't it great to know how much progress we've made in the last 500 years? This side of the pond we had a revolution over things like that. Unfortunately, we Yanks seem to be in lockstep with you and headed down the same road.
There is a forum member from the British Isles whom we all know who is a world-class musician. I asked him once why he didn't profit from his art, since he so obviously could. His answer was that the provisions of his housing didn't allow him to operate a business, and he couldn't afford to lose his home.
I got a cartoon on Facebook today from another forum member showing "Our [Americans'] Rules for the Government." It was a single page, our Bill of Rights. Next to it was a hardbound book with thousands of pages labeled "Laws and Regulations" and subtitled as "Government's Rules for Us." It's too true to be funny.
It's too flip to simply say the the lunatics are running the asylum; it is becoming criminal. It's almost as if government intend to crush the human spirit. Or am I just overreacting to a case of unintended consequences? Surely your law is not meant to be interpreted so harshly.
Hello?
The home concert "scene" caused me to get into a very heated debate with someone who was a very good friend at the time. Because of that debate we no longer speak. My question was this:
Are you SO desperate to just play ANYWHERE that you stoop so low to perform in someone's breezeway for 25 drunken people who are just a bunch of the host's friends that not only don't really know good from bad and but are also so rude that they sit in groups and chat the whole time you are playing?
In a time where we "pretty up" simple language in an attempt to make words sound like something far more "acceptable" than they are, is a "Home Concert" anything more than playing at someone's party? Like a "previously titled automobile" is nothing more than a used car, and a "home equity loan" is nothing more than a second mortgage or a "landscape contractor" is a guy who mows lawns for people like we did when we were kids?
Now, of course the other side of the sword is that this IS the music BUSINESS and if they are going to pay you 200 bucks to play that "home concert", more power to you. I can only speak for me, and "me" isn't doing this to pay my bills anymore, so $200 for a garage concert may be a great gig to those who do this full time. I just couldn't look my best friend in the eye and say "I played in a garage in a northeast Ohio suburb Saturday night. House of Blues and Hard Rock Cafe were both booked, so I took the garage gig."
(PS, my best friend is me.)
It's all moot though. It will never come up. It's just my opinion on it.
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After reading about John's problems with his new gig, I wonder how long it will be before it becomes uneconomical to play music anywhere.
It already is, for the most part. Bars that used to look forward to having bands in now see a band as a necessary nuisance and an expense they would rather not have. Every week the stories make the rounds of how the band that was supposed to get $500 for their work was told "Here's $300. Take it or leave it. We have a slow night."
Yet that same band, so desperate to play, will go back there again and again and again.
Here in northeast Ohio, we have mostly singles and duos, because they are cheap entertainment for the owners. There are really no more "music clubs" like 25-30 years ago. Now it's all restaurants with a little stage that will only hold that single or duo, or they move the pool table to put the 4 piece in there, most of which are really a trio with a girl singer, and she is only there because none of the guys can sing. All the players around here play in 3-4 bands so they can play more often and not have to get conventional jobs. However, that also means they never rehearse, and 60% of the "bands" are not really bands, and on Thursday they are calling around to find someone to play bass Saturday night. As a result, all of these pickup bands play the easiest 40 songs they can bluff their way through. That leads to 75% of the set lists being the same 40 easy songs that require no arrangement no matter where you go and who you hear. And the boring ten minute 12-bar-blues jams where the players are pointing at each other for who solos next. I think that looks totally bush league, but they are playing for $200 and beer. I don't drink, so what does that do for me?
Totally dead scene here.
And get me started on "jam night" where all the basement studio heroes who don't really play in a band go out and give club owners music for free. And then complain that there's no place that pays. Why would they pay when these idiots are giving them music for free?
Roger,
I don’t know if what I’ve read is true, but it stated that a street performer in England could be arrested for standing on the corner with his guitar case open for tips and playing cover tunes.
That seems to fit what you said in your OP.
Is that true?
I think there’s a way around the BMI extortion that’s going on in the USA, but unfortunately it won’t be to the liking of most musicians, audiences or venues.
That is to simply to play ALL original music. The obvious problem is that most musicians aren’t songwriters and most of the ones who do write their own stuff aren’t even half way decent at it because all they know is memorizing something someone else wrote.
Add to that the fact that audiences want to hear something they know and venue owners want the same.
Maybe when the law was enacted, the intensions were good, but there were no doubt people behind the scenes supporting the law that had no other intension than to profit from it.
I have no problem with cracking down on people selling bootleg copies of music, but it gets ridiculous if a performer isn’t allowed to pick up an instrument and play “Sittin’ On The Dock of the Bay” for anyone who wants to listen. There’s far more damage done by music pirates than by someone playing covers at the bowling alley.
Common sense be d*mned. That is the American way in our legal system.
@eddie and Bob,
The home concert scene is something far different than being hired to play someone else's music.
It's almost always all originals and the point is not to be entertained by music you already know and will hear played marginally well by an o.k. local band. I've never understood that particular bent of folks to hear familiar songs played by unfamiliar people.
They are usually quiet, acoustic guitar/piano. Songwriters. They will make about the same from the entrance fees as they will from what they will selling their self-made CDs at the event. They might make a couple hundred bucks that night if they are lucky. They will not have beer spilled on them or their gear. They won't get their gear stolen at the venue. The room will be hushed as they play/perform. The people there will not talk loudly through the songs or clank silverware on plates. They will see someone be moved by their art and receive joy as a result. They people sitting in the chairs and on the couches are likely friends or friends of friends. Nobody will boo or hiss. They will probably crash on a couch at the home. They'll work on a new song and maybe record some scratch tracks in Garageband during the week. They will look quite bohemian, some from a false sense of what is fashionable, some from pure necessity. etc.
I much prefer it. I only have to know MY songs as a performer. Not saying that learning other's music is not worthwhile, but this is the aspect of the home concert that you are missing. If you are not a songwriter, it would be very hard to understand. As hard as it is for me to understand to have a 100+ song repertoire memorized, in each genre for which I might be hired to play. I'm pretty sure I couldn't cut it in that scene. Skillful performance is not my forte.
-Scott
Same thing in Germany, although the street singing thing is not specifically forbidden (yet) . GEMA is out to rule the world, blocking youtube if there is a sniff of none GEMA music involved. We can thank Sony and BMG for all this, together with a corrupt political system. If the rewards were distributed to all artist correctly it would make some sense, but the way it works only the biggies get the money, and the performing rights societies of course. That is the way all things are heading, back to the dark ages.
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I don’t know if what I’ve read is true, but it stated that a street performer in England could be arrested for standing on the corner with his guitar case open for tips and playing cover tunes.
That seems to fit what you said in your OP.
Is that true?
Unfortunately, Bob, that's exactly right.
For years we had entertainment licenses which covered traditional venues. This was generally a good thing, because it meant that things like not overcrowding and fire regulations were adhered to and the system worked well. A few years ago, the politicians decided to extend the legislation to individuals and to anywhere a performance might be heard (or overheard} by the public. This now covers everything from street performers to sitting on the front porch playing guitar with a few friends.
In addition, the penalties seem to be completely disproportionate to the offence when compared to say, common assault or burglary. It would appear that it's cheaper to be a violent criminal than break the law as a musician!
ROG.
Of course back 35 40 years ago Those music clubs were packed with 18, 19, 20 and 21 year olds. And there were lots of good bands all playing current music. Selling high profit beer to that demographic who really wants to hear current music was very lucrative.
Things change. Sure it sucks but gosh we can't be Dana Carvey he's grumpy old man.
And even had there been no changes at all in the drinking age I don't suppose the local rock club is going to sell out with 60 old guys on stage playing Train and black eyed peas songs.
Like Apollo Creed said to Rocky Balboa, " It's a shame we gotta get old."
WSS
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The home concert "scene" caused me to get into a very heated debate with someone who was a very good friend at the time. Because of that debate we no longer speak. ...
I think you have a 100% incorrect view of the "home concert" scene. I think it is closer to Scott's description (even if his is a little utopian!). The house concert scene seems to fall under the 5,000 fan rule. If you can acquire 5,000 true fans that will buy a CD, T-Shirt, see you play at least once or so a year -- then you can make an OK living as a performing singer/songwriter musician. Sounds easy -- but it is not. The house concert approach is another tool to help getting a few more dedicated fans.
If you diss a practice that someone believes in strongly, I can see how easy it would be to lose friends.
This tends to confirm that all musicians are felons, but we already knew that. LOL.
When someone is all excited to tell me "I made XX dollars!!", they play music for the wrong reason anyway. That is one baby step away from totally selling out.
I don't play any more for several reasons. The primary one is that I am not good enough. I am slightly less than an average player anymore after 15 years away from it. I used to sing well but those muscles weren't used in those 15 years and I lost it. I am still a very good, very accurate harmony singer, because you don't lose "ear". You lose physical skills, like singing, from lack of use. I don't play well enough to do a solo act to the point where I have done a couple of songwriter showcase nights but took "Band in a Phone" with me. People who can pull off solo night with their guitar or piano have my utmost respect. Honestly they do. But to play in a garage for a bunch of people who are only there because they decided to not go bowling that night.....
The point is to ask "WTF happened????" Have we all lowered expectations to the level where conformity is king and we play those awful Jimmy Buffet cliche songs just to get ANY gig?
I want SO BADLY to find one group of guys who want to give it one last try and write 12 solid songs, record them in a professional studio, get promo packets made, put on suits and go door to door to the major venues in a 3-4 state area (to start with) and try to hook some gigs that get real exposure. As long as there concerts, there will be a need for an opening act, a slot usually filled by a little known act trying to sell some CDs at the venue and maybe a t-shirt or two. However, when I try to recruit, money is always the first thing mentioned. Doesn't anybody understand the difference between the words "spending" and "investing"? You don't "spend" money on studio time to make a proper CD, you "invest" it. I know for me (once again - FOR ME - not forcing my opinion on you) I don't want to record in somebody's attic or basement. I want to record in a recording studio. With a producer and a professional engineer. I want the experience of isolation rooms and high end headphones. I have never done that and it's on my bucket list.
The clubs also need to learn the difference between "spend" and "invest". You don't SPEND money on entertainment. You INVEST money on entertainment that will draw people in to spend money in your bar instead of the one down the street. These cheap club owners have taken bands from the asset column and put them in the liability column.
What a sad place music is in now where 60 year old musicians, with so many years of experience and seasoning, are still in a place where they worry about a gig paying enough to cover the gas to get there and back.
I was in exactly 2 bands that had any kind of a following. The Motown band I was in had a core of 80-90 people who followed us religiously, and on any given night we'd see 50-60 of that group, including once when 60 of them rented a bus with a driver and surprised us in Erie PA, 80 miles from home. We started at 9, and at 9:10 they all filed in. They had rented motel rooms and everything to stay the weekend. Point is, they came to see US, not whoever happened to be playing. That's what is missing. Bands who offer something unique and good enough to follow. I can hear Brown Eyed Girl from EVERY band playing EVERY night. Why would I drive 50 miles to hear what I can hear on my corner?
But yes, time did change from the way it was in the 70s and 80s and we can't change it back, so it is what it is. A lot of bad bands out there getting work because they work cheap, and good ones are sitting at home.
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I think you have a 100% incorrect view of the "home concert" scene.
No, I have a 100% correct view of the home concert scene HERE. I don't know where you are, but the only one I know of here is a guy who holds "concerts" in his breezeway once a month with little known country and folk artists. I went twice to check it out. It was the same 30 people there both times, all totally hammered by 9pm, with a covered dish food spread in the garage. It was a nice party atmosphere, but hardly a concert. As the night went on and people became more intoxicated, the little conversation groups started to where I couldn't even hear the artist over the low rumble of conversation with people talking about how good the dip was, asking who needed another beer..... that is not a concert by any remote definition of the word.
A "concert" is where the artist is on a stage a few feet above the rest of the room, and people actually pay attention because they have paid money to buy tickets to see THIS performer, not just whoever Bob found to play this month.
This is closely related to how fading artists who can't fill the Mega Mondo Enormodome anymore play 200 seat rooms and rationalize it by spewing the over the hill artist party line of that "I wanted to do a tour of more 'intimate' rooms so I could be closer to my fans" nonsense. Why not just admit that your fame has faded and you don't have enough fans to fill a 20,000 seat hall anymore and move ahead with your life?
A place very near my home, just this year, has The Rippingtons, Eddie Money, The Tubes, and whatever remnants there are of Blue Oyster Cult playing there. I saw all of those bands (The Tubes 3 times) play a venue (since torn down) that held 20,000 and they all sold it out. When you reach a place where you are straining to sell 350 tickets, maybe it's time to learn how to weld, sit back, and pray for royalties while you patch motorcycle frames with your welder.
I saw John Elefante, one of the AMAZING vocalists in the alumni roster of Kansas, ran a Kickstarter project to raise $35,000 to put out a new album. A guy with that kind of pedigree needed to beg the public to give him money to make a CD? Marshall Crenshaw, someone who I think is a GREAT writer, also ran a Kickstarter to raise $32,000. This is a guy who wrote songs that Bette Midler covered and was the John Lennon player in Beatlemania and he has to beg the public for money? There isn't a label out there who will front him $32,000 to produce a series of 6 small EPs?
If those 2 guys needed to beg for funding, what chance does a nobody level guy (like me for example) have?
I'll answer. None.
Steve had it right in the other post. It's a shame we gotta get old. When Todd Rundgren, my all time ultimate musical hero, is playing rib burnoffs......
eddie1261, you sound like a very bitter person, and really I don't blame ya!
But the bottom line is that too many folks sat on there duffs when all of this legal garbage was being passed, and just like always, now that it has hit folks at home, the cry goes out "NOT FAIR!"
I was one of those folks that you hate, I played in 5 pickup bands & 2 "solid" original bands for over 20 years in the tri-state area (Ohio-PA-WV), mostly in the animal clubs & wedding...... it is how I made my living that last couple decades of my career. We were FAR from being clones of each other, one was country, one was classic rock (what DOES that mean?), and the rest were variety, covering everything from jazz to bluegrass, from rock to latin...
And I have no problem with that, it is called a business for a reason, and that is how I handled it, paperwork and all. Bottom line, it was my job.
Selling out? Not even close, we "pro's" that do it / did it for a living call it working.....
I had the 2 original bands that played music we wrote & loved, and that was in NO WAY a compromise to the music of the times. Has anyone heard of us? No, only a loyal following that bought our CD's & came to see us when we gigged, but it was on out terms, and we loved it, no regrets at all mainly because it was good for the soul.
"When you reach a place where you are straining to sell 350 tickets, maybe it's time to learn how to weld, sit back, and pray for royalties."
What utter nonsense.......
It seems like your view of being a pro & making it is totally different than today's reality. I applaud the bands that are still out there doing there best, even if their torch is barely burning anymore, just like the fans that pay the high prices in gas, food, & cd's that go to see them.
Bottom line, the music world will never be as open, free, and chance taking as it was back in the 60's - 80's, it is a fact that we have to deal with....as for us, we will pay to see good artist no matter where they play, be it a coffee house, living room, rib burn-off, or a real-honest-to-goodness concert venue...and enjoy & appreciate every one of them!
Does my response sound harsh? Sorry if it does, but no more than your boo-hoo'ing about it instead of doing something about it.....
Not harsh at all. No more harsh than my original sounded. Opinions vary and people of a certain age understand the concept of being able to agree to disagree.
The comment about learning to weld just meant that there comes a time when it's over and like an athlete that plays 5 years past their prime and stinks the place out, a musician has to know when they don't have the juice anymore and not milk "one more tour" out of it with the brother-in-law of the cousin of the hair stylist's boyfriend as the "one remaining member". Is Styx really Styx without Dennis DeYoung? Is REO Speedwagon really REO Speedwagon without Gary Richrath? Is Journey really Journey without Steve Perry? Or The Tubes without Fee Waybill, Vince Welnick, or Prarie Prince? How dare these "ghosts of lineups past" tour and charge full price when the key members are no longer performing?
Many years back I opened for a nostalgia tour of Three Dog Night. Chuck Negrone was not with them due to some intense problems in his personal life. Danny Hutton and Cory Wells sounded great, but they were considerably less than amused when I asked them if they shouldn't call the band Two Dog Night without Chuck. I also opened for Alvin Lee, and though he WAS 10 Years After, he did not bill himself that way to sell tickets. And I opened for The Vogues several times playing that rib burnoff circuit and not one of the players or singers had ANY ties closer than second generation to The Vogues. One of them replaced someone who had replaced someone and then bought the name so legally he could keep it alive, and I supposed as long as it was legal it was okay, but still... If I go to see Jay & The Americans, I want to see Jay Black, not the guy who replaced the guy who replaced him. Of course at our age, a lot of them are dead or too old to perform. Some, like Frankie Valli, still touring at 78, still can.
Yes, the business has changed. There are very few "music clubs" in our area (and we are in the same place) and the places that DO have music don't treat bands well anymore, short paying, not keeping promises on booking, etc.... sad to see.
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I think there’s a way around the BMI extortion that’s going on in the USA, but unfortunately it won’t be to the liking of most musicians, audiences or venues.
That is to simply to play ALL original music. The obvious problem is that most musicians aren’t songwriters and most of the ones who do write their own stuff aren’t even half way decent at it because all they know is memorizing something someone else wrote.
Add to that the fact that audiences want to hear something they know and venue owners want the same.
Maybe when the law was enacted, the intensions were good, but there were no doubt people behind the scenes supporting the law that had no other intension than to profit from it.
I have no problem with cracking down on people selling bootleg copies of music, but it gets ridiculous if a performer isn’t allowed to pick up an instrument and play “Sittin’ On The Dock of the Bay” for anyone who wants to listen. There’s far more damage done by music pirates than by someone playing covers at the bowling alley.
Common sense be d*mned. That is the American way in our legal system.
Not really Bob but it depends. I'll give you 2 examples. The nice lady at the Cafe was given the riot act about,"well how do YOU know that it's original? " etc. etc. and she caved and gave up the idea.
I have a friend that is a Director at the local, very prestigious, Folk School in my area. They were approached many years ago by BMI & ASCAP.He and the President and others basically told them to go do what Clint Eastwood said couldn't be done.That they have all traditional, non copy-written music & music in the public domain. If they didn't believe that they could just set up camp at the Campus and try and prove a violation. Never been bothered since.This is still another matter.Harrassing a local Cafe etc because some old guy is going to play some cover tunes to raise money for charity is just wrong. I feel it's totally against the "spirit" of the laws in place.
John, "spirit of the law" is what I'm wondering. Dare we sing covers in the shower if our neighbor can hear us? Some of my fondest memories are "family sing-alongs" on the front porch on hot summer evenings. Can the copyright cops arrest me for that? If a law is unenforceable, it's worthless. The "Prohibition Days" all over again.
Except we're dealing with someone mightier then old Al. We're deal with the might of the Federal Gov.
Eddie, just for the heck of it because I'm bored this afternoon, I just googled the music scene in the Cleveland area. There's tons of stuff going on, The Brothers Lounge, The Grog Shop, Peabody's, Nighttown and a lot more. I'm almost jealous because there's a lot more live places in and around Cleveland than I see here in LA. I also found a site that lists all the bands playing in these places and I even looked a few of them up and listened to a few tunes. Told ya I was bored. None of it is anything I think you would like to play. Why? Because you, me and most of us here have been out of it too long. The scene has moved on from us. First you would have to really work to try to get a gig with any of these acts and because of the generational age difference you probably wouldn't fit in. We're turning into our parents, man. They were big band people, they had absolutely no interest in the music you and I know and love so they completely blew off all those clubs we're so fond of from 30 years ago. The Stones or Santana didn't sound much like Glen Miller did they? Well, what's happening in your area now doesn't sound much like what you're used to either but make no mistake about it, there's a lot happening.
My point isn't to make you feel bad, because I mostly agree with you, it's just the type of stuff that sells now is not our stuff any more. Believe me none of these acts or certainly very few of them are playing Jimmy Buffet. I saw the Facebook page for one that talks about some classic R&B along with punk and techno. Sounds like an interesting act. If you really want to start gigging again, you have to get younger and hipper. All I'm saying is for you to say the music scene is dead around there is completely wrong. All you're really saying is there's nothing that
you are interested in. If you don't believe me, check this website out:
http://www.positivelycleveland.com/rock/conert-venues/Bob
You are right about one thing for sure, Bob. The scene WE knew in the 80s is dead and gone.
We used to have clubs here known as Spanky's east and west, Cyrus Erie, Hullabaloo, The Corral, The Stables, The Plato, farther back was The Cat's Meow, Leo's Casino.... the Cleveland Agora when it was really "The Agora" (The Agora now is a converted movie theater.), another in Akron, another in Youngstown.
Those were music clubs. BIG rooms that were meant for music. Those are all gone. What we have now is restaurants and a handful of bars who also serve food but only in the sense of true bar food. Those restaurants are really rough to play for because they want to turn that table ONE last time and in most cases you can't get in to set up until 7, and god forbid if you start one minute later than 9pm sharp.
There are some places that are mainly music rooms but very few. 1/2 are in the neighborhood bar class that are okay to play in but it's still a bar gig. Now, that being said, if you are after bar gigs, there's your rooms right there. For the bands that don't care to try writing anything original, and that isn't me but I do not disrespect those who choose to go that path, there are places to play that will at least make it worth your effort.
We have a web page here that lists the entertainment calendar. To look at the list it looks like a LOT of opportunity. Until you apply the local knowledge. For privacy I won't print the list but to look at at, I immediately see 22 of the bands listed as being made up of people in other bands who I can tell you do not rehearse at all with the lineup that will be playing. That will be a whole night of Stones, Skynard..... easy 3 chord stuff that can be stretched with long solos so they can get away with less songs per night by making them last 8 minutes each.
Then you have the folkie scene. Some decent places to play as far as who goes there, but bands in that genre may draw 40 people on a good night. The Barking Spider is the best example of that. No cover and they pass a bucket to pay the bands.
The ones you mentioned I will mention one at a time, Brothers is a nice room. The main room has a great house sound system. They get the better cover bands. It's in a good area as far as being fairly sure your car will be there when you leave. They also have a wine bar side which is quieter, piano/guitar solos and duos. They also house a songwriter night on Wednesdays where they have 10 people in to do 3 songs each. Very popular.
Nighttown is a more sophisticated kind of room. They will have light jazz acts in there and singers that either come in with a trio or canned music and do Broadway show tune type of music. It IS a restaurant but they serve some of the best food in town.
The Grog Shop is the carcass of a Brown Derby restaurant and they have more avante gard kind of acts in there. More alternative kinds of bands in there than anywhere else. It is in an area of town known as Coventry, a strip of very eclectic shops and restaurants.
Peabody's used to be a prime time room. 2nd tier national acts and better local jazz and offbeat bands played there.
There used to be an area here known as The Flats. There was an east bank and a west bank, one on each side of the Cuyahoga River. The east bank was the happening side, and I played for years all up and down that east bank. Then hip hop came in, the inner city trash took it over, and many armed robberies and shootings later they finally tore the whole strip down. It is in the middle of a huge renovation project that will likely hit a billion bucks when it's all done, laying heavily on gambling recently becoming legal in Ohio. A Casino opened downtown a couple of months ago, and as the eats bank rebuilds they will be looking to attract a higher class of establishment, I guarantee you with a HIGH level of police attention to keep the riff raff out. Toby Keith is putting a 20,000 sq ft club there. 4 other entertainment venues, 3 BIG name restaurants, a huge office building, loft apartments.... Toby Keith was key because we have a huge country following here and the top radio station is country, but there is no place of any quality to go hear country music on a day to day level. Big acts come in to the concert venues, but local country bands are stuck in small places in seedy parts of town. There is Mustang Salli's out in the burbs, and The Dusty Armadillo, even further in the burbs. Nice big places for country bands, but nothing downtown. Country bands usually get stuck in the VFW and Eagles clubs playing for $250. For 5 guys.
We have a GREAT concert scene as far as national acts goes. A 20,000 seat venue downtown where the Cavs also play, Blossom Music Center, an outdoor venue 30 miles south of Cleveland, 2 outdoor stages downtown... it's just the scene for the local level player that has gone downhill. There is one decent place to do small hall concerts on the west side (Winchester) one east (Beachland Ballroom - but make sure you have an armed guard when you load out. Gear gets stolen there EVERY weekend.), and one south in Akron, The Civic Theater.
There IS a scene here, but it is WAY too wrapped around jam night. There are 3-4 jam nights every week. I just have a MAJOR attitude about giving music to bars for free. And them complaining when there are no paying gigs. There would be probably 25% more gigs in town if the wannabes would quit giving it away on jam night.
You hit the major issue. I am old. What I liked at 21 and 31, even 41 when I was playing Motown, I don't like at 61. My time is long since past. A young girl at my job was telling me about some festival she went to. She listed the names off her program. I did not know ONE band name. My iPod? Beatles, Beach Boys, Rundgren, Police, EW&F, AWB, Steinman/Meatloaf, Hall & Oates, Huey Lewis, Springsteen, Southside, Talking Heads.... I like what I know and I know what I like.
There’s a genre of music of live music that’s actually growing in the US of A.
It doesn’t happen at the local bars. Nor at the civic center. But it does sometimes happen at the local churches or high school gyms, ... and very frequently at homes.
It happens at festivals all across the country in the late spring through early fall. It’s old, … it’s “traditional”, it has “covers”, songs that are WAY past the copyright, and it has tons of NEW tunes.
It’s a mix of acoustic country, blues, western swing, Irish, jazz and folk.
It’s called “Bluegrass”. It’s also a lot of fun.
FWIW, the listeners are generally VERY attentive.
Bluegrass fans don't show up for the "ambiance" or something they can talk over while they eat hor d'oeuvres, ... they show up for the MUSIC! LOL.
They're a musician's dream as far as an audience is concerned.
I am starting to understand, it is not music which is disappearing - it is us!
And on that somber note, I probably will need to send a royalty check to Dylan Thomas for posting the following:
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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There’s a genre of music of live music that’s actually growing in the US of A.
(snip)It’s called “Bluegrass”. It’s also a lot of fun.
Funny you should say that, Bob. Around here bluegrass is everywhere. I went to a McDonald's a week ago, and there was a bluegrass band playing in the corner.
I went to a BBQ restaurant and they also had a bluegrass band playing a couple of nights per week.
In both cases, many of the customers were clearly there specifically because of the music. On the down side, bluegrass doesn't help me find venues for backing tracks made with BIAB, since this crowd is notoriously resistant to any form of music that requires electricity.
Update: I just called the BBQ restaurant. Somebody shut them down (musically) for a licensing infraction. So I guess not even Bluegrass is immune to the disease
;(
I love that poem and read it often.
Many choose to just ease off into the sunset. I am going out kicking and screaming.
I lived my life in a cantankerous manner. I will die the same way!
It has been reported, though I can't confirm, that at my birth, when the doctor slapped my butt to wake me up I turned around and hit him back. Kids usually say mama or dada as their first word. I would have to guess mine was probably "&^%$&^ YOU!!", likely directed to my sister, who I have not liked since the day I was born. And as life went on, dislike has crossed into something more deeply seeded.
So as far as that relates to music, will I accept that it is what it is, but I don't have to like it and I will continue to be vocal and outspoken. I don't associate with people who participate in jam night based on the philosophical perspective to which I espouse about giving clubs music for free. They are supposed to pay professional musicians for their work. I have never been to a jam night and will never attend one. Attending constitutes supporting, and I choose to avoid them. Nobody misses me, my choosing to not attend does not ruin the event, and for the most part it's usually wannabe players who know "those 3 songs" and just want to feel relevant. I will go to songwriter nights on occasion, because at songwriter night I can be pretty sure I won't hear Brown Eyed Girl and Mustang Sally.
Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but I see a common thread to the replies:
People just don't feel like going to see/listen to unfamiliar people play familiar songs.
They are spoiled by the availability of better than average sound being carried around.
You can trash .mp3 compression as a poorly done rendition of the original recording - but on the other hand, mp3 compression and playback systems have RAISED the quality of playback for the average joe that used to use a transistor AM radio and have given that same guy/girl instant access to the songs they want to hear. Not for the audiophile, of course - though now there are ways to obtain lossless FLAC files for them. Same if you compare to the walkman era of cassette playback which was popular in my youth.
Don't have to wait for it to play on the radio.
If you want it legally, it costs $0.99 and of course if you want it illegally, it costs a whole lot less than that.
Instant, on-demand song of choice by your artist of choice. Yes, it's kind of anti-social. Used to be it was fun and cool to go to a club to hear a band. But now everyone wants to hear it identically to the original, by the original artist, perhaps because that's what they feed their ears.
It's like the complaining about the dearth of album/CD sales. Much of it is because people consume music a la carte. Pick the faves from an album and buy them.
People share playlists now instead of mix tapes.
I tip my hat to you if you were able to make a living playing other people's music. I think that era is likely over.
Also, someone up in the thread stated that my view of home concerts was utopian. Sorry, I'm speaking from personal experience. I have not experienced the drunks in the garage thing. I wouldn't do that either.
But again, the focus is entirely different. It's original music being shared amongst friends and acquaintances. Very little money changes hands. It's for the enjoyment of new art - some of it good, some of it bad. For some reason, I continue to be attracted to new music. I could snap a picture of my CD collection for y'all, and I've got my 70's rock in there, almost nothing but U2 from the 80's, fusion/jazz from the 90's, and more and more new folk rock from time periods after that. I supplement with standards and what I can find at the Goodwill store CD section.
However, lately, I've been absolutely loving what the kids call dubstep, even though what passes for that term today doesn't match it's namesake music. I don't care, it's today's version of synthesizer music with lots of playful and creative use of filter sweeps, stacked synth layers, etc. Makes my brain come to life. Quite a bit of odd-time sequences played over even time signatures. One could even call it experimental, but it's popular.
I enjoy non-denigrating, non-misogynistic, non-boasting rap music. Yes, I call it music. It does exist, and the creativity I recognize in it is rich. Probably my favorite group is Deepspace 5 and all of their associated artists.
I enjoy the heavy funk of Soulive and Niacin and can't wait to see what twist they will bring with the next releases, all using both old (B3) and new (who knows what they use) technology with NEW songs.
I even enjoy the machine-gun rapid fire (one could recognize baroque aspects if they were willing to) musicianship of my son's favorite genre; metalcore. I can't stand the 'growling', but when the guitarist (who usually has a GREAT rock voice) kicks in singing, I can totally dig that stuff. That's one of the formulas of this genre; the 'singer' usually guturally growls lyrics, and the guitarist can usually hold his own with Steve Perry belts out some melody on the chorus. I let one of these bands crash on my living room floor earlier this year - band's name is Righteous Vendetta - look them up to see something entirely different from rap, jazz, folk rock, dubstep, etc.
Back on topic. Something else that I think the public expects from live performance nowadays is a spectacle, not just an audible experience. Whether it's the gold lame jackets with the band with the insane drummer (Rick K. and the Allnighters), or it's the latest Vegas Show On Wheels from U2 or the like, this is what people think is 'live' music.
Again, this is nothing new under the sun however. The definition of what is spectacle changes over time and it seems to get more grandiose and cost more money to produce, but it's spectacle all the same.
For something different, try home concerts of the flavor I speak of. Attend. Pay into the hat. Buy a home-grown CD from the artist. Support the scene you want to see thrive.
I was at the Santa Monica pier and the promenade a couple weeks ago. Talent on the pier was absolutely awful. However, a kid was out in front of the Converse store in the street with a classical guitar plugged into a little amp through a tiny Behringer mixer. Kid had a John Mayer vibe but with a better voice and from what I could tell from the song he was singing, was doing originals. I didn't even listen through one song - saw he was selling self-made CDs for 5 bucks. I gave him a fiver and took one of his CDs. Haven't listened to it yet - I'll report back with his name on whether or not it's any good. Live, he was good.
Back on topic again, sort of. I did hear a cover band a few months ago that was HOT. Insanely good musicians and brought it perhaps better than the original artists; song after song. The band was out of Denver and called "Alive on Arrival". Here's their page/schedule. They were playing at one of the best venues in Colorado Springs (for weddings), the Garden of the Gods club.
http://www.aoaband.com/schedule.cfm-Scott
Perhaps the general public is becoming more educated as to their musical tastes due to all the newer technologies such as the internet -- and are demanding more from talent these days.
Let. Us. Pray.
--Mac
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People just don't feel like going to see/listen to unfamiliar people play familiar songs.
For me it isn't so much that it's cover music but that every band plays the same song list.
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Same if you compare to the walkman era of cassette playback which was popular in my youth.
That makes me start thinking that this topic is largely generational. The Walkman was in your youth. I was 30 when it came out.
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I tip my hat to you if you were able to make a living playing other people's music. I think that era is likely over.
In my part of the country it is 180 degrees opposite. In 99% of the venues you are required to play ONLY music the audience knows.
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I could snap a picture of my CD collection for y'all, and I've got my 70's rock in there, almost nothing but U2 from the 80's, fusion/jazz from the 90's, and more and more new folk rock from time periods after that.
Again becoming generational, but also possibly just ME and my generational perspective. I have one iPod Shuttle (the green one - green like an apple) that is 100% Beatles. The other one (the silver one - silver for no reason) is all funk and soul. I rarely listen to anything I consider "corporate bow down to the man" bands who just cranked out album after album of music that sounded the same because their contract said they had to produce one album per year. Styx, Journey, REO Speedwagon, U2... they all crossed that line early on. I liked U2 early on, but are they ever going to play anything other than that one groove? I saw a cover band one night do a spoof where they did a song called "I still haven't found the street I am looking for because the streets have no name" where they "intermeshed" those 2 songs into one and it was great, funny and beautifully done. The point is, how sad is it that you can almost overlay one over the other and not notice?
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However, lately, I've been absolutely loving what the kids call dubstep
WTF is dubstep? I have steps, but I never dubbed them with any other name than steps.
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Probably my favorite group is Deepspace 5 and all of their associated artists. I enjoy the heavy funk of Soulive and Niacin and can't wait to see what twist they will bring with the next releases, all using both old (B3) and new (who knows what they use) technology with NEW songs.
Once again, generational. Who is Deepspace 5 and why do they have associated artists? Niacin? Isn't that a pain killer pill or some nutritional component of milk or something?
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the guitarist can usually hold his own with Steve Perry
Did you mean Joe Perry?
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Kid had a John Mayer vibe
And you bought his CD anyway? John Mayer should join Kenny G and Michael Bolton on the national Wimpathon Tour. Boy got no soul!!
As Mr Mammal said, it's us old goats that are disappearing, not the scene. I won't venture far from my house to hear a cover band anymore, yet I will drive 45 minutes to songwriter night. I have a lot of friends in copy bands who ask why I never come out, and my reply is the same every time. "You guys are doing the same songs IN THE SAME ORDER that you did when I knew you in 1986! Give me a REASON to come out. Excite me musically. Stimulate my mind." (More importantly, "YOU don't come to see ME at our reunion. Why? Because we play a concert venue and charge for tickets and you play bars with no cover? PS. We sell that room out every year. Playing half originals.") As I said in an earlier post, bands are not really bands anymore. They are just guys who throw together a 4 piece and go wing it. That is not aurally exciting to me to listen to a band that doesn't end songs together because they never rehearsed how they will end a song that faded out in the original. I absolutely HATE HATE HATE sloppy bands. Rehearsal makes you tight. Rehearse. One of the best bass players in town plays in 4 bands. None of them are any good. All of them COULD be if they would focus on one band and rehearse, but there is no pay for rehearsal, so they won't do it. Yet those same guys go to jam night and play free.
Bottom line, people still care about their music, but most care about the money first. I make enough money at my job to live comfortably and music has not crossed the line out of a love for the art and into a need for supplemental income. I am like Mike Holmes. "If you're gonna do it, do it right."
Hmmm.... not my style, but interesting just the same. Kind of a newer version of The Thompson Twins and Howard Jones 80s techno music.
To look at the word "dubstep", I took it to be something to do with Irish clog dancing. "Dub" from Dublin, "step" for dancing.
This is more for me.
http://youtu.be/8VSPL7-EzvY
Eddie,
I hadn't heard that in a long time. It went straight to my "Funk" folder on YouTube.
AWB was my BAND. Listened to that band non stop. Hamish Stuart, Robbie McIntosh, Malcolm (Molly) Duncan, Alan Gorie, Onnie MacIntire, Roger Ball.... bunch-o-funky white dudes!!
Songs like that, the kind that make your feet tap and your head bob without you even knowing it... that's what it's about for me.
Eddie, you ARE being particularly grumpy. John Mayer, like it or not, has some of the best Stevie Ray Vaughan chops around. I don't make that comparison lightly. His pop stuff doesn't show it, but have you ever heard his blues/jazz trio?
Just because he also can pull off pop fluff doesn't mean he has no soul.
Here he is trading licks with BB King.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv6J2aQo2rkAustin City Limits (put a funky hat with feathers on it and rewind 20 years and what would you possibly have?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjLXwyj6k5s&feature=relatedLive Lenny (sorry the screaming is kind of loud)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh4Se60-u44I have major respect for Mr. Mayer's songwriting capability, his ability pull off smoking blues and have live performance chops like this. All the while still doing the pop thing as well.
I guess perhaps it IS generational.
Also, I think you might actually like Niacin: Billy Sheehan, Dennis Chambers and John Novello.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4WJuLeHCCsHere's one where they added Steve Lukather and Glen Hughes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8gmoyYU4gI
Okay, look, I am not saying Mayer sucks or anything and nobody is telling you to not like him. He isn't for me. That soft and airy voice is not my style. I can't get past the coffee house goon-ness of Waiting for The World To Change and Gravity. A little too, um, "delicate", for me. He comes off a little light in the loafers. I also get tired of the social climbing aspect of him chasing nothing but high profile women. And then the whining when Taylor Swift wrote a song describing what a d-bag he is.....
He sounds to my ears like he is trying to be Dave Matthews with the nasal whining tone and phrasing, and we already have one of those. Yes, Mayer is a fine player and if you like the hippy-esque writing about how "we need to make the world a better place" (which has been done to death) he is fine. I am just saying that he would never get my ticket or CD dollar. I'd buy a whole lot of things before him. I have a friend telling me how great Joe Bonnamassa is. Well, okay, that's fine. Blues players like that are everywhere, including local bars in Cleveland. There are about 5 here in town that I'd toss in the hopper with any of the national guys. Mayer has a lot of "pretty boy" going for him and that helped.
This is not a "Can you do any better" argument. Remember, "better than me" doesn't make someone anything. I suck anymore. 20 years ago that was not true, but all that time away... The thing that DIDN'T happen is that I didn't lose my ear or my knowledge. I just lost my physical skills, and the arthritis in my hands keeps me from getting them back. I physically can't really grip a guitar neck any more, and I have little agility on the keyboards or sax anymore. Sad to say, but this may have to be my last year of playing in the reunion shows. When it gets to where I am hurting the band, I am out, and one more year of joints being affected by the arthritis may be huge.
Scott,
The aoaband sports a pretty impressive play-list. And for what it's worth I have no problem with listening to a good cover-band, but hey I will listen to all "good" music.
Also regarding music venues in my area of South Louisiana and the Mississippi Gulf Coast there is no shortage of places to play. In fact I am seeing more & more small restaurants and bars offering live music two – three nights a week than ever before. IMHO the biggest issue is that most musicians will play for next to nothing.
With this in mind, and as much as I like the feel of a rocking club, I must admit the corporate gigs are the most appealing of late.
Later,
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However, lately, I've been absolutely loving what the kids call dubstep, even though what passes for that term today doesn't match it's namesake music. I don't care, it's today's version of synthesizer music with lots of playful and creative use of filter sweeps, stacked synth layers, etc. Makes my brain come to life. Quite a bit of odd-time sequences played over even time signatures. One could even call it experimental, but it's popular.
Very interesting Scott, you just solved a small mystery for me. I've been following a thread on the Kurz forum about their highly anticipated ROM expansion chip for the PC3. Supposed to have been released the beginning is this year but it's been delayed. They posted some demos of it and one of them caused several people to rave about it calling it dubstep style and they can't wait to get their hands on it. I had no clue what they were talking about. I just Googled dubstep and found a site with a bunch of acts on it. One is called Modestep. The one song I listened to sounds like a cross between strong techno dance your ass off rhythms and the soundtrack from Transformers. Lots of sound effects with synth sweeps, growls and stuff. Kind of interesting actually. Don't see myself playing it but I can see the appeal and I certainly see the creativity there too. Somebody actually has to sit there and figure all those sounds out and how to put them together.
This is probably the wrong place for this but just for you Scott, here's the demo and this isn't just a collection of sounds, it's an actual playable Setup the the user can easily change up and save:
http://soundcloud.com/dave-weiser/thessia
Dave Weiser is in R&D and is internet face of Kurzweil.
Bob
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Also, I think you might actually like Niacin: Billy Sheehan, Dennis Chambers and John Novello. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4WJuLeHCCs
I liked these guys sound - but it did remind me of this scene where a rock band takes off on a Jazz Odyssey 
:
David: What are we going to do, we've got nothing to play here...
Derek: I'll tell you what we're gonna have to do...
David: What?
Derek: Jazz odyssey!
David: We're not going about to do a free-form jazz, uh, exploration in front of a festival crowd!
When dubstep was first called that, it was supposed to be a combo of 'dub', as in the triplet delayed effect stuff with dance-hall 2-step. Regardless, I enjoy listening to what they now call dubstep.
Regarding Niacin, I don't think much of their stuff is free-form jazz. It's all quite rehearsed.
-Scott
Pat,
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In both cases, many of the customers were clearly there specifically because of the music. On the down side, bluegrass doesn't help me find venues for backing tracks made with BIAB, since this crowd is notoriously resistant to any form of music that requires electricity.
Everything you’ve said here is true. Bluegrass fans don’t want to just hear 4 or 5 solos on different instruments, … they want to watch each person play them. There’s a VERY high premium placed on musical ability.
There are two exceptions to this. Those who are young and learning the craft, and those who are old but have made their mark in years gone by. Both of these groups will be welcomed with open arms.
Backing tracks of ANY kind will not be accepted. It’s live musicians only. And they LOVE new tunes.
The only way to use bluegrass backing tracks and have it accepted would be to play for an audience at a home or coffee house where they aren’t expecting LIVE music and include it as part of a set of country or folk songs.
The only "effect" that true bluegrass fans wanna hear is amplification. 
I guess I'm in the bluegrass camp. Listening to someone play along to backing tracks brings the yawns from me. I don't even like if they use pre-recorded percussion/pad tracks. That is unless the music is designed to be that way - ala the dubstep I pointed out earlier.
But if it's supposed to be a band, I want to see and hear a band. I mentioned that I like some rap, if the lyrics are not misogynistic - the rap bands I like the most use live drummers and instrumentalists. If that shocks some of you that there are rappers that use live bands - it is true.
I would in no way accept watching a bluegrass 'player' with backing tracks going on - it violates the whole of bluegrass being a country store porch get together kind of a vibe.
-Scott
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David: What are we going to do, we've got nothing to play here...
Derek: I'll tell you what we're gonna have to do...
David: What?
Derek: Jazz odyssey!
David: We're not going about to do a free-form jazz, uh, exploration in front of a festival crowd!
They were NOTHING without Nigel. NOTHING I tell ya!!!
BTW - I saw this with Allison Krauss, Dan Tyminski and Sierra Hull playing for The POTUS and company. Bob, I am a new fan of Ms. Hull!
-Scott
Eddie, a Spinal Tap fan like me, uhm, why does that not surprize me
Scott,
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BTW - I saw this with Allison Krauss, Dan Tyminski and Sierra Hull playing for The POTUS and company. Bob, I am a new fan of Ms. Hull!
Glad to hear it. If I were as close as you are to where she’s gonna be playing in a few days, I’d be there even if I had to walk. Hehe.
There are tons of great young players out there, be this girl is CRAZY good.
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Eddie, a Spinal Tap fan like me, uhm, why does that not surprize me
There's such a fine line between clever and stupid.....
Hi Bob, I have had some guitar students who just love shred music and want to play shred guitar. I tell them that if they want to listen to real shred musicians listen to bluegrass. Musicians that can play extremely fast (shredding in the new language) on ACOUSTIC instruments. That is NOT with instruments that have very close sting action and through an amp with so much distortion that a note can last for minutes.
PS – I lose most of those students by the next lesson
Scott,
Since you mentioned “dubstep” it made me recall a video I saw a few weeks ago.
You’ve probably heard of this girl:
Dubstep Violin- Lindsey Stirling- Crystallize
Either way, it’s a cool vid and song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHjpOzsQ9YIP.S. It was filmed in Colorado.
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I have had some guitar students who just love shred music and want to play shred guitar. I tell them that if they want to listen to real shred musicians listen to bluegrass.
Hi Mario.
Yeah, I've had the same experience. A lot of the Metal-Heads laugh at country music, until I get them to try some fast, accurate country lead parts. No overdrive, no hammers, no tapping, just hard work. They soon develop a new respect for country lead guitarists!
ROG.
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I have had some guitar students who just love shred music and want to play shred guitar.
Time to repeat my story from about 14 months back when I was in a Guitar Center store and there was some mid 20 something kid sitting on a Marshall hammering the hell out of a Les Paul neck with his right hand. I listened to him impress himself for about 45 seconsd and said "Nice. Hey, can you show me how to play a B flat major 7th?"
He handed me the guitar, laid an F-bomb on me, and left the store.
Tell the shredders to look up Andy Leftwich and see what speed is about. As much as I love Dream Theater, i can take Petrucci for about 5 minutes and then I have to turn it off. Between him and Rudess, they just fit SO many notes into a bar....
There is a cartoon somewhere that has the caption "DREAM THEATER SHEET MUSIC" and the art is a solid black bar on staff paper. I laughed so hard I almost choked.
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I have had some guitar students who just love shred music and want to play shred guitar.
Time to repeat my story from about 14 months back when I was in a Guitar Center store and there was some mid 20 something kid sitting on a Marshall hammering the hell out of a Les Paul neck with his right hand. I listened to him impress himself for about 45 seconsd and said "Nice. Hey, can you show me how to play a B flat major 7th?"
He handed me the guitar, laid an F-bomb on me, and left the store.
Tell the shredders to look up Andy Leftwich and see what speed is about. As much as I love Dream Theater, i can take Petrucci for about 5 minutes and then I have to turn it off. Between him and Rudess, they just fit SO many notes into a bar....
There is a cartoon somewhere that has the caption "DREAM THEATER SHEET MUSIC" and the art is a solid black bar on staff paper. I laughed so hard I almost choked.
I can relate to the kid in GC. I’ve had a couple of very similar experiences with “know-it-all” students.
Loved the “Dream theater sheet music”! I can relate to those remarks also.
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There is a cartoon somewhere that has the caption "DREAM THEATER SHEET MUSIC" and the art is a solid black bar on staff paper. I laughed so hard I almost choked.
Frank Zappa's audition sheet music was known in the industry as "The Black Page," because, according to FZ, of its "statistical density."
WSS, I missed your post, I just clicked on the link and the one Eddie responded with. What strikes me is the top ten dubstep tunes has over 3 million views. Obviously dubstep is a big deal. Cut the Cake only got 22 thousand but the live concert version of Pick Up The Pieces has 1.6 million, not bad.
As to AWB, I don't know if I'm the only one but I'm certainly one of the guys that introduced Pick Up The Pieces to the LA cover band scene back in 1987. I was in a pretty hot R&B horn band at the Lighthouse and mentioned that tune to the lead sax player as something I would love the band to do and he made a deal with me, if I would write out the basic lead chart he would rehearse the other two horns so I did. We started doing it and it sounded great. There were 3 other horn bands rotating through the Lighthouse at that time and within a month the others started doing that tune too and when I went out to the valley to a couple other places to check out the acts I started hearing it there too. Prior to us doing it at the Lighthouse, I didn't see anyone doing it.
Now that song is such a classic, I've heard many different versions of it on the jazz stations around here. The most interesting one is a string quartet. I didn't catch who it was but it was amazing, they actually pulled it off. A funky string quartet, pretty cool.
Bob
Speaking of Jazz Classics how about
Don Shirley's Version of Waterboy. And while I say Jazz Classic, I know this tune was also a blues tune not to mention the many bluegrass versions on the web.
I am almost ashamed to admit that over the years I almost forgot this tune existed. Not anymore thanks to BIAB it's rediscovered and plugged into my show.
Laster,
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I guess I'm in the bluegrass camp. Listening to someone play along to backing tracks brings the yawns from me. I don't even like if they use pre-recorded percussion/pad tracks. That is unless the music is designed to be that way - ala the dubstep I pointed out earlier.
But if it's supposed to be a band, I want to see and hear a band. I mentioned that I like some rap, if the lyrics are not misogynistic - the rap bands I like the most use live drummers and instrumentalists. If that shocks some of you that there are rappers that use live bands - it is true.
I would in no way accept watching a bluegrass 'player' with backing tracks going on - it violates the whole of bluegrass being a country store porch get together kind of a vibe.
-Scott
Scott,
That attitude may be typical but not always the rule. It all depends on geography and Venue.I admittedly have a difficult time with that were I live because a lot of people are self proclaimed music experts & critics.Then there are the people that just want to have fun. I auditioned for the Local C of C here for there dinner and they LOVE what I play. They LOVE the songs and me. They don't care how it's done. My friend plays the VFWs,Legions etc and makes more then the Bands. Why? Because he plays the SONGS THEY want to here not the ones the band wants to play.
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Scott,
That attitude may be typical but not always the rule. It all depends on geography and Venue.I admittedly have a difficult time with that were I live because a lot of people are self proclaimed music experts & critics.Then there are the people that just want to have fun. I auditioned for the Local C of C here for there dinner and they LOVE what I play. They LOVE the songs and me. They don't care how it's done. My friend plays the VFWs,Legions etc and makes more then the Bands. Why? Because he plays the SONGS THEY want to here not the ones the band wants to play.
John, I think you have a real point. There was a time when the songs were the feature and who performed them was secondary. I actually watched a documentary about when this started to change over to the singer/songwriter being featured over the song performed by some popular group or singer.
Watching Lawrence Welk is a great lesson with any of the featured instrumentalists on this topic, or any of the great past instrumentalists (thinking of Floyd Cramer, Roy Clarke, etc. ) or singers who took already existing known and popular songs and made a career out of performing them. I honestly can't think of any off the top of my head because this has never really been of any interest to me. Plinking grace notes like Floyd, or pickin and grinnin like Roy was interesting to me.
If I recall correctly, the documentary blamed people like Bob Dylan for starting the trend away from performers performing other people's music, and toward performers/bands performing their own music or at least music selected by them to be 'original' music. Thus also supposedly began the slow death of sheet music publication.
The Floyd Cramer types no longer exist and haven't for decades, at least in youth-popular culture. Born in 1967, I grew up in the era when that was nearly gone. My paradigm is the expectation that a 'band' is live, and should perform music that they themselves have written/composed. The current dance 'DJ' culture is also somewhat confusing and of limited interest to me as well. I'm talking people that are not spinning records at high school dances, but folks that have become superstars being 'DJ's (when no discs are usually involved), but remixing and selecting songs in a sequence and overlaying of other songs gets someone famous. It's weird to me.
-Scott
Here's another factor that I ran into. for real.
I played at a local pizza/sports bar on a Wednesday night.You all know I think that I'm 60 and play Classic Country & Oldies.I had a nice little group of around 25 people that came and had all kinds of food & drinks and had a great time. I made $120 in tips.
I got an email from the owner stating she wasn't going to have me back cause she didn't get a good report from her bar tender.
The bar tender is a 20 year old tattooed skank.Of course she's not going to want to listen to what I play.Lesson: Pick the venues that fit your music.
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I made $120 in tips.
Isn't it proper to share tips with the wait-staff (bartender), or am I wrong on that??
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The bar tender is a 20 year old tattooed skank.
You don't have her number laying around, do you?
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I made $120 in tips.
Isn't it proper to share tips with the wait-staff (bartender), or am I wrong on that??
I never gave that a thought however don't they get their own tips.I also play for a Charity so if I have to pay everyone off there's nothing left.
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Isn't it proper to share tips with the wait-staff (bartender), or am I wrong on that??
If Skank-o-rama shared bartending tips with him, yes. But that needs to be understood beforehand, and I doubt if either party would agree to have their tips rely on how well the other party did their job. From what he said, Lydia the Tattooed Lady doesn't sound like the type to give up a dime of her tips. She may be saving up to get a spider tattooed on the side of her neck or something....
I just came back from talking to the HEAD bartender who'll be working with the owner tonight. I explained the situation and apologized if I somehow made some error of etiquette by not tipping the night bartender.The head said she'd talk it over with the owner and see what can be done.We'll see how they respond. There also opening another place in the next Town over.
OH!Did I mention that when I play for the Chamber of Commerce dinner at the end of the month that the Humane Society will be there as well as the publisher from the paper and they are going to do an interview about my playing music to raise money for the animals. It'll give me a chance to thank all the businesses that are supporting me. You know what I'm sayin'?
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I just came back from talking to the HEAD bartender who'll be working with the owner tonight. I explained the situation and apologized if I somehow made some error of etiquette by not tipping the night bartender.The head said she'd talk it over with the owner and see what can be done.
Now that is a good idea - dang you still got it.
I do know some bars share tips, but it is generally pre-agreed and percentages set. But here is what I have seen and done and it works well...
John, you have the mic. The Bar patrons are listening to you. So put a plug out there for the "...hot, artsy young thing mixin and servin your drinks", ".. if you like the music, tips are appreciated to the struggling musicians (and their pets), and if you like your drink or how well it is delivered to you, let the bartender and staff know with a tip, remember while you are out drinkin and listen to music, they are working hard to be sure you have a good safe time, You will feel better and so will they". Then launch into a home spun version of "love the one your with... "
I did mention tipping the bartender & waitress.That's been SOP for almost 50 years for me.BUT when I was done loading up and sat down at the bar for a drink & she served me and brought the free pizza I ordered to take home I should of just handed her a $10 & said thanks.Sometimes we old goats forget some of these things.They don't share tips per say. That I know.